F*ck it, i'm learning to code

[Tourmaline]

@SeanLewis What sort of app are you wanting to create?

 

[S_Fernando]

Sounds like you have a great plan ahead. Best of luck on your new adventure!

 

[lowtek]

Thanks @lowtek, that was a pretty comprehensive answer. My problem is I've started loads of different tutorials (Java, python, C++, solidity, React, P5, etc. etc.), however can't make the leap to designing my app.

I like your suggestion about the euler project (I'll google it, never heard of it) and using real world code in github.

One more question though; and it's a bit embarrassing, however I just seem to fog over when I go to github. Can you give me some user tips for navigating and just how to use it in general please?

Or perhaps point me to a Github tutorial

the search functionality on Github is pretty robust. A search for simple android app returns a bunch of results, but this one sticks out

nisrulz/android-examples

I'm not an android app dev, but it looks like it's got a bunch of simple apps to control the core functionality of a device.

Edit: as far as using it, you can just download the source code as a zip and play with it on your local machine, if you want.

Ironically, I do recommend the github tutorials. It's pretty quick and you can just google how to do whatever you need.

The basic idea is that it is a version control system. You initialize a repo and set it as your origin master. Then you can git add filename, git commit -m "message that describes the change" and git push origin.

Don't use the GUI, just learn to use the terminal. It's much cleaner and simpler in the long run, and well worth the extra time investment.

 

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[Roli]

Ironically, I do recommend the github tutorials. It's pretty quick and you can just google how to do whatever you need.

Ha! Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day I guess github requires little to no creativity to use, so a straight forward functional tutorial should do it. I searched a couple yesterday, I'll find a good one and dive in.

The basic idea is that it is a version control system.

That's the first description that has made me realise why I might actually use it for my own stuff. So thanks!

Don't use the GUI, just learn to use the terminal.

Yeah I like using the terminal, I did some Solidity programming back in the summer and really enjoyed it. It felt like I was diving into the depths of the machine.

My advice is to prepare these and discuss them with a experienced dev:

1. Description/Document for the project. What does it do? Who will use it? What functions will it have? What data will it collect(emails, names, age, images, etc.)? What data will it contain(do you need a complex Database)?
2. Mockups for the project
- Photoshop if you can
- Paint, if wireframes will be enough to explain
- Flowchart Maker & Online Diagram Software is pretty good for mockups too (although draw.io is not for mockups generally)
3. What is the bare minimum to deploy the project? What minimum/core functions can you get away with and still have a product/service to sell?

Thanks, I am not a complete novice so this advice is good. However I don't really know any devs that I can hit up for that much help. Are you one? Can you suggest some online hangouts?

783th iteration: Let's finalise the OAuth 2.0 API so I can incorporate financial flows from bank X into my financial app.

Lolz, I like it! Roll on iteration 783!!

 

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[S.Y.]

I think it's a great start. If I can recommend where to start, it's with developing your first basic webpage. From there everything else falls into place.

1)HTML/CSS - Which is basically the structure of the page, words, styling.
2) Setting up hosting/domain.
3) PHP - To manage logic.
4) MYSQL - For interacting with a database.

Honestly, as long as you can mark up a page with html, and style it with css you have the first half down. Then get it online with hosting so you can practice. Then - learn and practice php for dynamic content. Then MySQL to interact with a database so you can store information.

Why do you go with PHP over JS?

I am wondering, say you have someone:
- that is starting from scratch
- wants to learn enough code to be able to rapidly develop working prototypes of web apps
- has one year to gain that practical knowledge

which language would you recommend?

//tagging @eliquid and @csalvato

 

[JohnForte]

Also, make sure you integrate processes at the beginning. Don't just learn to built and code, but learn proper deployment procedures and how to do it with or no downtime. Include in that proper version control strategies with proper merge requests.

Most of my clients come back to me cause I architect solutions on toolsets that mitigate risk and that usually becomes my upsell over my competition. Agreed this isn't for all clients but if you move into a big-league with enterprise clients I highly recommend it.

IE: While I architect using a load balancer, and 2 -3 docker containers, I explain to my client we take one docker container to replace it with the new version, and we can move a little traffic to it, then we see if issues arise before deploying it fully.

 

[dmetts]

Great! You will not be disappointed. Feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions. I've been coding for over 30 years, got an early start. My focus is the .net stack, but can offer advice on most.

 

[loop101]

F*ck it, i'm learning to code

This has been nagging me for years now.

I'm sick of having great software ideas and not being able to build them.

I'm sick of not having any marketable skills.

And i'm sick of making excuses!

Why coding?

When my last business failed i realised i didn’t really have any “real” skills.

This is why i’m taking a step back before i launch another business and learning to program.

I’ve been interested in programming for a long time, but i never got around to learning anything more then HTML/CSS. I really like the idea of being able to build whatever i want, no matter how dumb it is.

I’m learning to code because i want to, not because it’s the fastest way to make money.


Here is the game plan:

I don't plan on wasting any time on this. Once i have a good understanding of the basics I plan on learning through DOING.

I'm currently going through the odin projects "web development 101". I already know HTML/CSS and Javascript is next.

I wasted a lot of time researching which back end language to learn but i've decided on "Ruby / Ruby on Rails". (there is no best language btw)

Once i know JS and I'm going to start applying to jobs/contracts while still learning RoR. My hope is to find something part time that is remote, that way i can spend the rest of my time learning and working on my own project.

Execution

The goal is to:

1. Learn programming.
2. Get a job and further develop this skill.
3. Create a “web app” of my own.

In this thread I'll share a weekly recap of the things i've learned, challenges encountered and wins. If you're a programmer and have tips, feel free to pm me or leave a comment.

RoR is fine, I've made some web-apps with it, but PHP is a more mainstream option. If you really want to go with RoR, the best courses I've found are Mike and Nicole's:

The Pragmatic Studio

Premium video courses for software developers. Real apps. Real code. Really good stuff!

pragmaticstudio.com

The best JavaScript course I've found is Wes's:

Wes Bos

wesbos.com

I don't know of a high quality PHP class, but people say its LaraCasts:

Laracasts

The definitive resource for Laravel and PHP training.

laracasts.com

Mischook has some ultra-basic HTML/CSS/JS and PHP/MySQL classes that are super-cheap, he usually sells them to Canadian highschools. The content is a little dated (~2015) and the language is annoying if you're older than 13, but a good intro:

StudioWeb | Interactive JavaScript, PHP, HTML and CSS video training for the k-12 classroom

Web Design and Python Code Training for Middle School and Up

www.studioweb.com

 

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[alexkuzmov]

February has been a month of uncertainty.

I’ve been learning ReactJS and progress has been slow and it's been getting harder to drag myself in front of the computer, not because i find it difficult but because my intentions have not been clear.

I’ve had to take a step back, I've had to really look at where I am in life.

I have a great idea for a Saas business. Businesses in this industry are currently paying tens of thousands of dollars and spending months doing what this could help them do in days if not hours.

The thing is..

I’m not sure which order to do things in, this is where I need your advice.

On one hand this project is a true fastlane venture, this business aligns perfectly with my 10 year vision.

On the other hand this will take a long time to develop so it might be smarter to build a smaller portfolio project(to show my skill), start getting some work and actually making some money first. Then once I have some more experience and disposable income I can focus on my fastlane venture.

What are your thoughts? Am i being foolish or realistic?

Is there any way to segment your idea and work on a small part of it first?
When you start to get more experience, you`ll find yourself building up your own codebase.
Functions, structures, scripts etc.
Why not isolate the MVP for this SaaS that you`re thinking, and start working on that?
If you lack a mentor, the next best thing is to make something which people will use.

P.S.
Do not spend time worrying about your code.
Your only goal is to make something that works without bugs.
Once you get some experince, you can re-write parts of your code which you dont like.

 

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[alexkuzmov]

With the advent of no-code communities and platforms like airtable + zappier, how important is it to learn coding?

With the advent of none stick pans and pots, how important is it to learn how electricity works?

 

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[flavius]

Which language is best to build a web app, php?

There are likely as many opinions as there are languages/frameworks. Php is one of the most popular languages to build the server side functionality (saving data, routing etc.) and from what I've heard of, modern php is also quite pleasant to work with. Depends on the app you are building, but usually you also need some javascript on the client side. I suggest picking one and starting to work on your project. In the end the techonologies are just a means to end and there are several viable options.

 

[SeanLewis]

PS. Check @Lex DeVille youtube clips about getting a gig on Upwork: Lex DeVille
He has some really nice tips which you can apply to any job application.

Perfect, my upwork profile got approved 10 minutes ago. Thanks!

 

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[Kraelog]

You might also want to consider getting employed as a developer, is there is still an enormous demand and relatively few supply. At my company (IBM in Belgium) they're so desperate that anyone who can type "Hello World" can basically get an interview.

Especially with the near certain recession something stable where you can learn your craft might be a good idea...

 

[alexkuzmov]

Any resources you'd recommend to learn these?

Its in my next post in this same thread: EXECUTION - F*ck it, i'm learning to code

 

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[josealberto]

Hey, Sean.

One month has passed since your last post on this thread. How has it been? I'm following it close, planning on learning to code.

 

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[LiveEntrepreneur]

Don't get caught up in tutorial purgatory. Tutorials exist to answer a specific question that you encounter while working on a project. This shift in mindset will double your rate of learning or better.

This advice is 100% fact. Don't do what I do, i spent 3 years watching tutorials and shit and could never figure out why i wasn't making progress. Can't believe what a mistake i made. I should have spent 3 years making projects not F*cking tutorials or books. Theory can be a killer.

 

[alexkuzmov]

@SeanLewis Hey man, how is it going? Got some Upwork gigs, started coding?

 

[SeanLewis]

This is a tough man.
Are you saying that you were homeless at one point?

Slept in my car for a bit, mostly stayed with friends.
Never had to sleep on a park bench or anything

 

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[Muthembwa]

This. More than anything else. I would be called a Developer by any definition of the term. But outside of outdated irrelevant course in university, I have never completed any course / curriculum of any kind. I start with a problem and then find the best way to solve it using whatever programming language / tool / method is suitable for the process. I learn by looking at how other applications / code has solved the problem or implemented the feature I need. If not the same, at least something close to it. Then I research everything about the code I don't understand and learn tonnes in the process.

So instead of following set curriculum I would strongly urge you to define a problem to solve / product or app to make. Then learn whatever it is you need to accomplish that.

All the best...

This sounds like MJ

 

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[Pink Sheep]

Congrats on your first sale!

 

[bangL]

Hey @alexkuzmov , thanks for checking in. I've been wanting to update the thread for a while now.

To be honest i feel a bit like a failure, haven't been able to bring myself to write about it.

I lost my job and apartment due to covid, or I guess my failure to deal with the situation.

After a few months I got into university(prep year for computer science), tuition is free and the loans are almost 0% interest so I guess it’s not a terrible deal. Managed to get a student apartment last month so i’m not on the streets anymore.

Needless to say it’s been a shitty year and I handled it poorly.

I’m starting to build things again, thinking about doing it in public and build some authority.

Feel like this is the first time I've been able to take a deep breath in the past 10 months.

I’m re-reading unscripted to get my head in the right space.

Congrats on your program and learning how to code, Sean! I am glad you decided to persist and kept learning even though there were horrible hurtles in your life. I m sorry that you were homeless at one point, but hey, you got here now. Coding is no easy walk in the park. Thanks for sharing! Your story is very inspiring. Best wish on your start up this year. You can make anything happen when you put your kind and heart into it. You got this!

 

[Andy Black]

• Woohoo! One in a row!

 

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[I Am I Said]

congratulations, sticktoitiveness beats intuitiveness again

 

[alexkuzmov]

I'm hooked! You could give me a billion dollars and i'd still be building software. I like everything about it, Which is probably how i've been able to stick with it.

One issue is that I got stuck in "developer mode" for a while there which is why it took a couple months longer than it should have before launching... Although i do have a kick a$$ product now.

Send me e DM with a link, would love to check it out

 

[Boogie]

Currently my Saas has 2 paying customers, i’ve had more but they’ve canceled after the first couple of months. The truth is that my product isn’t up to the standards of the current space. When I envisioned this product there weren't many competitors but during my time learning to code more have surfaced and to be honest their products are better than mine. My whole USP was to bring a fresh breath to an “old” niche but it seems I was too late.

I'm in a great place to pursue my next Saas idea and now is not the time to relax, it's time to step on the gas. More updates incoming although infrequent..

I'm curious. After people were willing to buy your software, why do you say you were too late? Do your competitors have all the other possible customers? It sounds like you did some market research with what you thought was a great product and found that the market is willing to buy it but you have some work to do.

Since you have it developed already if you updated the software, could it be successful? Can you talk to your customers to find out what would improve their experience and make releases to improve the product? You might be able to leap-frog your competitors in features or by not having too many features, but making it quick and easy to use.

You'll almost always have competition. Even if you don't start with it, it will come for you.

BTW, until you've made it in the SAAS space, these projects should make great portfolio pieces for you to show potential customers if you want to have your own software shop. Keep them polished and they will help you sell yourself especially early in your software career. It's your IP and isn't part of a team implementation at a larger company.

 

[BAUCE]

congrats @SeanLewis, this is some truly inspirational stuff.

 

[Smuggo]

Do you recommend any languages to learn?

I've been developing for two years as Java Dev (+Spring, SQL, ORM) and I think this language is mostly for big, corporate projects so I'm thinking about swapping to something else, but there're sooo many possibilities...

 

[Jon L]

Welcome to the club OP! I have been learning for over 6 months now and still going strong. If I may I would like to share a few things I have picked up along the way.

1) Do the basics first.
I followed the Rob Percival course on udemy and that opened a whole new world to me. There are many other courses available depending on language and application. I just bought a course as I had no idea even what CSS or HTML was at the time. In the end the concept of full-stack engineering including setting up databases and hosting. Overall the WWW will become clear and that you have taken your first step on a very very very big mountain.

2) Design Design Design
I cannot say how much of a game changer this is. I jumped in to MVC, web security and back-end coding. FAIL! While it is necessary and interesting it was an unproductive approach. After receiving advice from @Andy Black a month or so back, he helped me step back and strategise my approach. So I explored a few options including outsourcing the engineering. To accomplish this I knew I had to write a specification, make a wireframe and tender the work package. By wireframing, the complexity of the web app becomes very quickly evident. I initially used Adobe XD following tearing through yet another Udemy course on UX design.

3) Consider all avenues
After the specification and wire frame were ready I held two interviews and received very similar quotes, in and around €70,000 only for the web app. This job posting was made through upwork to get a price indication. With advice from @Jon L where he explained the risks of using upwork engineers and the risk became more quantifiable. I assumed a >50% failure rate for a project (an MVP by the way) that I would sink all my assets into. I do not have the appetite to risk everything for something that may not work.

4) Hack hack hack your way to the finish line
This takes some home work, this takes a lot of home work. I was weeks busy looking for off the shelf php scripts and template designers.

Front End:
What I found was a program called Webflow. I am still really very very busy with it, but the real advantages are;

• it took me two weeks to learn but you gain design freedom unlike a lot of other web builders (e.g. wordpress). For my purpose this is ideal.
• It can be used for rapid design prototyping like Adobe UX but at the same time you are building the site and can test it and adjust it on multiple platforms .
• It is based on CSS, HTML and Javascript and automatically writes the code in the background
• This code can be exported and copied into your own hosted site (using the Webflow Bootstrap version)
• You will still learn a lot about the CSS, HTML languages without spending hours coding.
• They seem to be making updates and improvements constantly.
• They offer hosting and data-basing as well but it is a subscription service depending on your site size and traffic. I really do not understand the potential here yet. But I am pretty sure there will be limitations (e.g. only normal map and shopify plugins) that will not meet the requirements that I what to achieve

Back-end:

• Start first with the data-base design - no idea how this works yet, something with OOD and mySQL (Udemy to the rescue)
• Use youtube and udemy to create the applications/functions in a secure way.

Further, Cloud hosting, APIs etc I am going figure this all out out when I need to.

Hope this can help give you some direction and speed up your process. The WWW is bloody immense and not something that you will conquer in a month especially if you are aiming for full-stack development. Keep us posted on your progress and good luck!

I love your thought process on this.

the overall architecture of the system (mainly the back end db stuff, but there's more to it than just that) ... can really bite you in the butt if you don't have experience. I'd recommend hiring someone to advise you on that. $5k can save you a ton of grief.

70K is a ton of money to dump into an MVP unless you have millions. I was expecting that you'd find quotes on upwork for more like 10K

 

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[Roli]

Great question, and I should have been more explicit. If you don't know anything at all, then a basic tutorial is a good place to start.

If I were personally going to make an android mobile app, here are the steps I would take.

1) Spend a few days learning the fundamentals of java. I don't know anything about the language, but I know how programming languages work, so it shouldn't take very long to get a basic grasp of the syntax and common idioms of the language.

2) I would search for official documents from Google on how to make an app, and start working through those.

3) As I got stuck, I would either seek out tutorials or, better yet, check out github for examples of simple Android apps. Often times I understand what needs to be done, but not the precise way to do it. Real world code is great for that, and is much faster than reading a tutorial.

Edit: If you're completely new to coding, I would pick a language (preferably one related to what I want to do as an end goal) and start working through algorithmic problems. Something like project euler or the like. The reason is that it teaches the fundamentals of how to think like a computer, and there is a definite answer. The solutions are generally pretty short, so it won't take much actual code to complete.

Thanks @lowtek, that was a pretty comprehensive answer. My problem is I've started loads of different tutorials (Java, python, C++, solidity, React, P5, etc. etc.), however can't make the leap to designing my app.

I like your suggestion about the euler project (I'll google it, never heard of it) and using real world code in github.

One more question though; and it's a bit embarrassing, however I just seem to fog over when I go to github. Can you give me some user tips for navigating and just how to use it in general please?

Or perhaps point me to a Github tutorial

 

[alexkuzmov]

Thanks, I am not a complete novice so this advice is good. However I don't really know any devs that I can hit up for that much help. Are you one? Can you suggest some online hangouts?

I`ve alot of experience as a dev, yes, about 11 years.
I can help you out for sure.
As for online hangouts, not sure. Do you mean like a discord?
Btw the fastlane forum is awesome for getting advice on such things. There are many more experienced devs on it.
Why not just post a thread?