Exiting the cubicle farm and taking Web-Design full time

[Robdavis]

Just got off the phone with a shop owner, didn't bat an eye at 4,200$ + hosting/retainer fee for me.
That's over a month's worth of dayjob pay for me even after tax withholding.

Other news: minor ghosting, including ghosting from the guy I closed back in december but he seems ready to move. Have other people lining up in my calendar that want to start work soon.

Was at my job today with a signed resignation but saw the "YoU DOn'T HavE to be a FReELanCeR" thread where even Lex D was railing against freelancing and got depressed... pussied out. I have been good at inventing hypochondria symptoms too but maybe I just didn't feel ready... maybe I should've just had more faith in myself. Going to see how much I can do on my current projects, currently trying to oversubscribe to contracts on my plate to force myself to quit.

All this took a long damn time and I thought about either giving up or kidnapping Fox to make him refund my course fee over these past two years but the most important lesson I wasn't getting until now was to never give up.

Sounds like you are making fantastic progress. This is a very inspirational thread.

 

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[Andy Black]

Was at my job today with a signed resignation but saw the "YoU DOn'T HavE to be a FReELanCeR" thread where even Lex D was railing against freelancing and got depressed... pussied out. I have been good at inventing hypochondria symptoms too but maybe I just didn't feel ready... maybe I should've just had more faith in myself. Going to see how much I can do on my current projects, currently trying to oversubscribe to contracts on my plate to force myself to quit.

All this took a long damn time and I thought about either giving up or kidnapping Fox to make him refund my course fee over these past two years but the most important lesson I wasn't getting until now was to never give up.

I think the lesson from that thread is to back yourself and create your own path.

 

[RicardoGrande]

Ugh, have these three proposals out right now that would replace 3 months of day job pay and I want to work on. After speaking with each of the owners these past two weeks, agreeing to a project/price and challenging them repeatedly "Okay, and you acknowledge that the budget will be x because you wanted y?" or "Okay, so we just wrapped up on this call, from 1 - 10 how secure are you in the knowledge that I will be able to deliver and from 1-10 how ready are you ready to get the proposal/invoice and start?" and getting 9s/10s... but here I am waiting days/weeks later.

The vanishing projects!

Luckily, this seems to be incredibly common, watching some sales training videos this morning I expanded my horizon that it's not "just" the initial prospecting and sales call... the fight isn't over until the whole project fee is sitting in the bank. I also learned that if I have any problems, the problem stemmed from the root- which was me, essentially there's a good chance I'm running defense for the prospect for them and not coming in with the authority and business attitude I need to.. Thinking seriously on dropping some dosh on sales training from Benjamin Dennehy. I don't think buying more courses is the answer and I've read "you can't teach a kid to ride a bike at a seminar" but his free content has treated me very well. Ben's a heavy hitter when it comes to prospecting and running sales meetings and his students seem to get great results. I don't want to be out more than I have to be but I also know I need to SECURE and get at least 3 projects going before quitting to do this full time- especially if all these "warm leads" I've dug up may end up either ghosting before or after a sales call and a "close".

Once I can get to industry/networking events when I have my time back, things should get easier. If I can get to the point where 70% of web design agencies get where they can operate solely off of referrals... I'll be in heaven. Until then I'm still fighting it looks.
Wish me luck.

@Fox Any thoughts? These are people that confirmed a project and a close on the call and seemingly vanished into thin air.

 

[RicardoGrande]

Haven't given up- I will never give up, but it's been a rough past 6 weeks.
One project did come back and I locked down a month's worth of dayjob wages and I'm PRAYING he will give me large commercial referrals. Have more warm leads from earlier cold calls but with my experience so far I feel like most of these "warm" leads are just piss in the wind because I call and they start sh!tting out excuses to why they can't have a project anymore. Ran out of people to call using my prospecting as well so I switched to cold e-mail and working through that.

Honestly feel like hell, I pushed myself to the limits making almost three thousand cold calls in the past half year and had a pretty bad health scare that culminated in a specialist telling me I'd need to go for a looong MRI if my symptoms got any worse. Most of the last month was peeling back the intensity, working smart, and being mindful and meditating and taking more time for myself and hobbies like hiking.

Got to go to BNI and I feel that BNI will probably have to be my saving grace once I take this full time. Met some great business owners and they like me but can't go until I quit my dayjob. Feeling really bitter as of late given that I've put two years of my life into webdesign and I feel like I've only gotten piss in my face when I saw another TFF member start WD this February, have everyone on the forum popping into his thread and offering encouragement, and all of a sudden he's getting bukkake'd with five-figure projects.
I've struggled and stressed to try and figure out why I haven't seem the same level of success, to me it keeps coming back to the limitations of working around my dayjob- I will not give up, but I will not throw a paycheck away until I lock down solid projects and can expect referrals and to make a living despite record inflation and the threat of an economic crash.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk /s- I know there's a light at the end of the sh!t tunnel but damn I don't know when these tribulations will end.

 

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[Isaac Odongo]

Most of the last month was peeling back the intensity, working smart, and being mindful and meditating and taking more time for myself and hobbies like hiking.

Oh!

Thanks for the rant and health changes. Better to be alive and young and strong. That way we keep working.

There is a calm and peaceful atmosphere after e every storm.

Congz for the effort man.

Guys will come to help you out.

~Isaac~

 

[Choate]

Ugh, have these three proposals out right now that would replace 3 months of day job pay and I want to work on. After speaking with each of the owners these past two weeks, agreeing to a project/price and challenging them repeatedly "Okay, and you acknowledge that the budget will be x because you wanted y?" or "Okay, so we just wrapped up on this call, from 1 - 10 how secure are you in the knowledge that I will be able to deliver and from 1-10 how ready are you ready to get the proposal/invoice and start?" and getting 9s/10s... but here I am waiting days/weeks later.

What kind of questions are these? Not only are they too blunt, but I can't see these fitting into the sales process. Your questions should be about discovering problems. Especially the question asking the client if they think you will deliver... that's just detracting overall.

Got to go to BNI and I feel that BNI will probably have to be my saving grace once I take this full time. Met some great business owners and they like me but can't go until I quit my dayjob. Feeling really bitter as of late given that I've put two years of my life into webdesign and I feel like I've only gotten piss in my face when I saw another TFF member start WD this February, have everyone on the forum popping into his thread and offering encouragement, and all of a sudden he's getting bukkake'd with five-figure projects.

A whole two years? Did you know you are up against guys who have been on WordPress for 10-15 years and in website development longer than that? The market doesn't care about them and it doesn't care about you either. And it certainly doesn't care that other forum members getting 'bukkake'd with work'. Focus on you and solving problems.

The market also doesn't care that you want to replace your work income with these big projects.

Couple issues I see here:

1) Mindset

2) Sales channel - I was in a web developer hour long lunch chat two weeks ago with a lot of agency owners and one guy who was particularly prominent was getting asked a lot of questions. He was against cold calling. He puts himself out there as much as possible but doesn't cold call. I think you need to be where your customers are already looking, and more often than not that's not going to be over the phone.

3) Sales process - Have you been in a sales development role before? It's nuanced and pounding out 100 calls a day doesn't mean a thing if you aren't refining your process in the right direction.

What's your personal website?

 

[RicardoGrande]

Oh!

Thanks for the rant and health changes. Better to be alive and young and strong. That way we keep working.

There is a calm and peaceful atmosphere after e every storm.

Congz for the effort man.

Guys will come to help you out.

~Isaac~

Appreciate it Isaac, I wanted this thread to show every last bit of the WD journey, because most of the threads you may find either start from the "successful" point or gloss over the pain.

What kind of questions are these? Not only are they too blunt, but I can't see these fitting into the sales process. Your questions should be about discovering problems. Especially the question asking the client if they think you will deliver... that's just detracting overall.



A whole two years? Did you know you are up against guys who have been on WordPress for 10-15 years and in website development longer than that? The market doesn't care about them and it doesn't care about you either. And it certainly doesn't care that other forum members getting 'bukkake'd with work'. Focus on you and solving problems.

The market also doesn't care that you want to replace your work income with these big projects.

Couple issues I see here:

1) Mindset

2) Sales channel - I was in a web developer hour long lunch chat two weeks ago with a lot of agency owners and one guy who was particularly prominent was getting asked a lot of questions. He was against cold calling. He puts himself out there as much as possible but doesn't cold call. I think you need to be where your customers are already looking, and more often than not that's not going to be over the phone.

3) Sales process - Have you been in a sales development role before? It's nuanced and pounding out 100 calls a day doesn't mean a thing if you aren't refining your process in the right direction.

What's your personal website?

Hey man, thanks for coming in and lighting me up (serious).

The questions - those were after the main sales process. Being interrogated isn't fun for anyone, I needed something brief to type out into the update- as you could understand.

Time - I'm not worried, I see people here or on FWS that literally just start out reach and fall into profitable projects. I'm targeting small-mid size commercial and service business who either have no sites or old and bad ones so I know the pain is there.
Market doesn't care- hahaha I'm well aware which is why I invested in sales training, more on that later.

Mindset- Yes, I'm actually 10x better than I used to be but getting No's, "rejections" or ghostings still takes it toll because I hold myself to the standards I see on TFF or in the FWS group. Feeling good or bad or something is create and I know I'm asking bad questions that create a toxic mindset, but when I see a guy slinging HTML templates for 5k that's only been doing outreach for 3-4 months it stings like hell.

Sales Channel- You're right, I'm not an agency though, just one man running this from a desk in the 3-4 hours I can squeeze around dayjob shifts. IMO cold calling was the best path to take as now gives a damn about "web designers", CC is my way to put myself in FRONT of them and roll the dice on showing them their pain and having a chance to win a project. Cold calling gave me my current five-figure clients and I would have NEVER gotten them if I never picked up the phone to begin with.
Looking at a "sales engine" over time, The Admin Bar on facebook does a yearly survey and over 85% of the agency owners in their report that referrals are their #1 lead source. From that and talking to the business owners I cold call, working the grind, eating sh!t, and getting over the hump seems to be the best way to graduate into making a living and winning profitable projects when you're small and striking out.
I'm aware of other techniques but what I've done so far appeared to be the best way with my limited time. I've also been putting into networking and cold e-mail like @GuitarManDan and @GoodluckChuck have detailed in their progress threads and on the TFF group

Sales process- No, never at all haha. I ran into another FWS student who lost his job during corona and worked into 8k+ months from ground zero using HTML templates during corona and picked up the phone after talking to him. I made about 1k calls before I found the UKs most hated sales trainer Benjamin Dennehy and even bought a telephone prospecting bootcamp (based on the sandler training system) to learn how to betray expectations, earn the time to pitch, highlight pain and work to move to a sales call. The calling hasn't been bad, I think my average is 100/10/3 for calls/"interested"/sales calls but I keep having to put off work because most of my time each week is taken by my dayjob. By the time I can get around to the "warm" prospects, they've either forgotten, moved on, or make up excuses and "promise" they'll have work if I call at an uncertain point in the future (most likely a lie per Benjamin Dennehy"

A lot of what I've posted is just pent up frustration and that's my fault, still surprised at the total amount of effort and the seeming lack of results. I have about 40 warm business owners to reach back out to over the coming half year so I shouldn't write anything off yet, but since I'm not over that "hump" and being fed referrals, I feel that I'm at a standstill.

 

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[Choate]

Ok, regarding cold calling, maybe the best example I can share is this:

When I was 22 and fresh out of college, I joined a insurtech agency and we were licensed to sell a variety of car and home insurance, like Progressive or Travelers.

Let's say there's 100 people on our sales floor and each one has an autodialer that dials leads who at least filled out a form on some bullshit lead gen site trying to find insurance quotes. You might autodial 100 or 150 people per day depending on how many just don't answer at all. We're expected to close 1-2 new policies per day. You hit bonus territory after you've closed 45 policies for the month.

How many people out of 100 do you think actually hit bonus? And of those that hit it, how many actually make something that isn't negligible?

Answer: not a lot. Maybe half of the people hit about 45-50 policies, which might mean $100-$300 in bonuses. 10-20 people might hit 50+ policies. 5-10 people might hit 55+ or 60+, with one or two outliers getting even higher - so anywhere from $2k to $5k in bonuses.

100 people just like you, dialing the phone 100 times per day, following a proven questions-based sales script selling a product that people need, to semi-warm leads, with the latest in insurance tech to be able to quote, sell, and close a policy within a 15 minute phone convo.

Yet half of the floor couldn't even sell enough policies to put bonus money on the table, or couldn't care to.

If you look at your current sales process and where you are now, do you think you'd be someone selling 60 policies per month? 50? Would you even hit the minimum of ~40?

Cold calling is so nuanced that what I'm trying to say is that without significant experience and an actual mentor, you have to be your own critic. You probably shouldn't record your phone calls due to most states being two-party consent, but you can at least record yourself talking, and you should, and listen to it after. Create a script, refine it, stick to it, veer from it, break it, rip it up, and try again with a new one. Record everything.

Because at the end of the day, this isn't a thread that's even remotely about web design. It's about cold calling. It doesn't matter what you are selling.

Just remember that cold calling is a hustle and doesn't actually build brand value (and often has negative value associated with it). You can refine the process all you want and you'll carry that skill for life. That's great. But you should also work on a way to create inbound leads - website, blog, SEO, whatever. An asset, because not only will that bring in inbound leads but you can share it with your oubound leads. Maybe it's long term. But no one wants to cold call forever, and there isn't a magical pot o' referrals at the end of the rainbow once you hit 50,000 cold calls or 100,000 cold calls.

 

[RicardoGrande]

Alright, pretty hectic last two months and had surprises at work and something personal I'm getting worked out.

Good things:
- Two clients came back out of nowhere, worked on and finished the 2k$ site, the owner offered to pay more if he needed changes down the line and promised to refer me to his contacts. He does a specialized service that works with a LOT of good commercial/B2B businesses so hoping this comes through. Working with the second client (mid 5 figure project) to figure out a time I can go on site and interview the owner more and do photography.
- Went to local BNI meetup, seems to be a good field (noticed they need a lawn service guy and tempted to just buy a van and mowers and just do that lol). Also got in contact with someone who's shaping up to be a mentor which is great.
- Followed up with one warmish lead who actually made time at 6pm to get on a call with me, asked for a proposal and when I gave a rough quote around 5.5k they didn't bat an eye. It'll be a lot of work and I'll push myself to the limits but having 5.5k is better than not. Waiting to hear back- not holding my breath but it'd be a nice end to my May.
- Re-aligned my brand to a new business name that doesn't sound like basic b!tch SMMA and got everything set up.

Rough things:
- Still working through mindset, I think I've honestly had a few panic attacks over the last 8-10 months and I see other people that quit their jobs to do this blow by me- but now I can successfully turn my focus around, realize where I stand and that everything is possible, and keep trucking
- Finally paid someone to gather leads in the verticals I like with the specifications I require. Squeezing out 5-6 cold e-mails a morning and trying to find time to call the owners since I have their direct number. This one scares me a lot and unlike my blind cold calls with my old method hearing a "no" feels like a blow. Only about 65 contacts out so far with only one e-mail reply which was a no haha
- I know I was complaining about the recession doom and gloom back in 2021 but the reality of this recession is hitting and a lot of warmish leads that ask for call backs will get my follow up call and try to find a way to push it off or tell me they're not interested (this is normal according to sales trainers). This could mostly be on me for not having a good follow up script- I need to figure out the line between being helpful and commanding respect and just being a pushy salesman.

Overall, in a better place and got into the multi-thousand dollar project range and I can point to past work for like industries to clients now. The only thing I need to do is keep up with outreach and build momentum and referrals.

Never give up.

 

[2legit2quit]

Alright, pretty hectic last two months and had surprises at work and something personal I'm getting worked out.

Good things:
- Two clients came back out of nowhere, worked on and closed on the roughly 2k$ site, the owner offered to pay more if he needed changes down the line and promised to refer me to his contacts. He does a specialized service that works with a LOT of good commercial/B2B businesses so hoping this comes through. Working with the second client (mid 5 figure project) to figure out a time I can go on site and interview the owner more and do photography.
- Went to local BNI meetup, seems to be a good field (noticed they need a lawn service guy and tempted to just buy a van and mowers and just do that lol). Also got in contact with someone who's shaping up to be a mentor which is great.
- Followed up with one warmish lead who actually made time at 6pm to get on a call with me, asked for a proposal and when I gave a rough quote around 5.5k they didn't bat an eye. It'll be a lot of work and I'll push myself to the limits but having 5.5k is better than not. Waiting to hear back- not holding my breath but it'd be a nice end to my May.
- Re-aligned my brand to a new business name that doesn't sound like basic b!tch SMMA and got everything set up.

Rough things:
- Still working through mindset, I think I've honestly had a few panic attacks over the last 8-10 months and I see other people that quit their jobs to do this blow by me- but now I can successfully turn my focus around, realize where I stand and that everything is possible, and keep trucking
- Finally paid someone to gather leads in the verticals I like with the specifications I require. Squeezing out 5-6 cold e-mails a morning and trying to find time to call the owners since I have their direct number. This one scares me a lot and unlike my blind cold calls with my old method hearing a "no" feels like a blow. Only about 65 contacts out so far with only one e-mail reply which was a no haha
- I know I was complaining about the recession doom and gloom back in 2021 but a lot of warmish leads that ask for call backs will get my follow up call and try to find a way to push it off or tell me they're not interested (this is normal according to sales trainers). This could mostly be on me for not having a good follow up script- I need to figure out the line between being helpful and commanding respect and just being a pushy salesman.

Overall, in a better place and got into the multi-thousand dollar project range and I can point to past work for like industries to clients now. The only thing I need to do is keep up with outreach and build momentum and referrals.

Never give up.

i gotta agree with Choate's post on here.

make sure you take care of your mental health man, that is not a joke. im not sure which country you live in - but if its a western country, i think you are overthinking your day job. you already don't like it, theres a million other day jobs out there and sounds like your quite experienced to leave and get another day job if you needed it.

i think you have come very far (im nowhere near your stage), but may i offer some suggestion?

change your approach. it seems like you are approaching from 'i need the client'. what if you approach it from 'the client needs me for the value i can provide them'.

another thing, is that, what sort of hobbies do you have? are there any meetups related to that? because if you carry a business card with you, i think you'd get much farther with meeting people organically and telling them what you do.

think of it this way, if you approach 1000 women on facebook, maybe youll get 4 replies (cold calling). if you approach 1000 women in person, you'll get maybe 100 numbers, and 10 actual dates.

im not saying cold calling does not work, but it does not allow people to know who you are be personable.

people trust, who they know. for a business owner to trust you to make their website, it may help if you know them a little more than through a random cold call.

meetups are one way, but theres probably better ways as well of marketing yourself and services.

 

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[charlemagne]

Just got off the phone with a shop owner, didn't bat an eye at 4,200$ + hosting/retainer fee for me.
That's over a month's worth of dayjob pay for me even after tax withholding.

Other news: minor ghosting, including ghosting from the guy I closed back in december but he seems ready to move. Have other people lining up in my calendar that want to start work soon.

Was at my job today with a signed resignation but saw the "YoU DOn'T HavE to be a FReELanCeR" thread where even Lex D was railing against freelancing and got depressed... pussied out. I have been good at inventing hypochondria symptoms too but maybe I just didn't feel ready... maybe I should've just had more faith in myself. Going to see how much I can do on my current projects, currently trying to oversubscribe to contracts on my plate to force myself to quit.

All this took a long damn time and I thought about either giving up or kidnapping Fox to make him refund my course fee over these past two years but the most important lesson I wasn't getting until now was to never give up.

Haha, I just read your journey start to finish. Very inspiring. Thank you so much for documenting all of this. It was very, very inspiring.

 

[RicardoGrande]

Haha, I just read your journey start to finish. Very inspiring. Thank you so much for documenting all of this. It was very, very inspiring.

Your welcome man. @BizyDad just mentioned in another post this morning that a lot of threads make it look like "One day I just started doing x and 3 months later I'm now a millionaire/self employed/Andrew Tate", but we don't see many threads showing the whole process with ups and lows.

I knew from the start it'd be a tough fight, especially having a job to work around (just lost a prospect this morning to someone else who called them up, they had wanted to work with me in January but I forgot to follow up b/c of work) and wanted to document everything. I've been punched in the gut, humiliated, and experienced loss but I knew why I kept on track. When you stay consistent and keep improving by even 1%, you can get through the mud and get to the point Fox and Dan call "going vertical".

 

[ChocolateFactory]

Have you considered getting into frontend development?

 

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[charlemagne]

Your welcome man. @BizyDad just mentioned in another post this morning that a lot of threads make it look like "One day I just started doing x and 3 months later I'm now a millionaire/self employed/Andrew Tate", but we don't see many threads showing the whole process with ups and lows.

I knew from the start it'd be a tough fight, especially having a job to work around (just lost a prospect this morning to someone else who called them up, they had wanted to work with me in January but I forgot to follow up b/c of work) and wanted to document everything. I've been punched in the gut, humiliated, and experienced loss but I knew why I kept on track. When you stay consistent and keep improving by even 1%, you can get through the mud and get to the point Fox and Dan call "going vertical".

Very true. I am just starting out in webdesign, as a relative is offering me pay to learn to make a website for them (great start gig, I at very least get paid to learn web design). I want to be in the industry mostly to learn sales and because I already like design. My goals are as follows: get comfortable selling, learn what creates value for a business, get good at running ads facebook/google, and be able to make killer sites. All said, I see it as a stepping stone to acquiring skills.

Luckily I live in an affluent ski-resort town so there are tons of mom and pop businesses with crap sites. I am fairly confident I can take the skills I learn (with this relative) and quickly build out some websites to help the people in my town get more conversions. It is kind of sad to see how far behind they are, and that is why they are getting pushed out by the big corporations moving in and attracting tourists.

All in all. Way to put your nose to the grindstone. If you are O.K with it I will pm you when I get stuck.

Cheers,

 

[13retonnian]

Your welcome man. @BizyDad just mentioned in another post this morning that a lot of threads make it look like "One day I just started doing x and 3 months later I'm now a millionaire/self employed/Andrew Tate", but we don't see many threads showing the whole process with ups and lows.

I knew from the start it'd be a tough fight, especially having a job to work around (just lost a prospect this morning to someone else who called them up, they had wanted to work with me in January but I forgot to follow up b/c of work) and wanted to document everything. I've been punched in the gut, humiliated, and experienced loss but I knew why I kept on track. When you stay consistent and keep improving by even 1%, you can get through the mud and get to the point Fox and Dan call "going vertical".

Hey I've just begun marketing and your story is inspiring and informative thanks for sharing!