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Everyone's doing web design

A post of a ranting nature...

Fox

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Web design is not a good long term choice.

I think overall four very profitable and versatile business skills are:
- how to build something
- how to sell it
- how to manage yourself
- then how to manage a team and/or systems

If you have these four skills already and the means to back yourself then probably just skip web design.Go find a market need and build a solid valuable business around it. There is little reason to do web freelancing in this scenario unless you want some extra cash flow.

If you don't have these skills though then I think some time in web design can help build them if you take it serious for a time but also don't plan to get stuck there forever. You learn what needs to be built for other businesses, why they need it, how to sell it, and how to manage yourself, and how to get it completed.

It 100% isn't quick money and depending on how badly you need to learn the above skills it can be tough.

To know if it makes sense for a person to do web design is relative to where they are at right now. Again web design is not a good choice if you are already skilled up and ready to fully solve a big need in the market.

Of course this is my personal view point and I also teach it this way but to me this approach makes the most sense.
 

Johnny boy

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How long did it take you to get to this level of success?
post craigslist ads, put up a template website exactly like this one, and don't be a weirdo when selling them over the phone. takes a day or two.
 

Johnny boy

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While everyone was busy arguing about market saturation I was in thialand for two months on vacation and made around 4-5k in a month from posting basic craigslist ads and using templates to build websites for businesses in my free time between riding a motorcycle around the island and snorkeling with cute little fishies with my girlfriend. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

View attachment 0128f74b69f249c3a0e2cf1f9868bdf8[10662].mp4

F7FBF620-4E29-4B08-8F4C-847CA9D78264[10666].JPG
 
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Goldfels

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"Saturation" is just another SCRIPTED term to cause inaction on your part. While yes, saturation in a market is a real thing, whether is it a positive or a negative aspect in a market is up to the viewer's mindset.

A SCRIPTED entrepreneur sees a saturated market and thinks "There's too much competition. Everyone is doing it. It will drive the prices down. I shouldn't do this."
An UNSCRIPTED entrepreneur sees a saturated market and thinks "There's a reason this market is saturated. It's because there's a bunch of imbeciles charging low rates for low value (literally most of web design). There's actually very little competition in this regard. If I find a way to differentiate myself in this market and provide lots of value, I can make good money. I can do this."

Probably the number one thing you should take away from this forum is that your mindset defines who you are and who you will be.
 

rpeck90

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I earn some money doing it and the number of amateurs is staggering.

If you're going to be successful, you need a grounding in either software development and/or artistry/design.

I only got involved because I had been doing something else and happened into the higher level technical stuff (core software issues).

My first programming book, for example, was a beginner's guide to PHP4 (we're now up to PHP 8), which I bought when I was 12 or 13 in 2003:

51l76SGQjAL._UL500_.jpg


Some things to be aware of: -
  1. There are MANY demanding buyers
    If you're getting started and have to work basically for free to get clients, be prepared to deal with some of the most annoying people possible. They will continually pester you for the smallest fixes and will often send constant messages/chats to see progress.

  2. There are 3 types of buyer
    The first type is the average person who wants something fixing/repairing. These typically have maybe $50 or something and are looking for someone who can get it done for that price. The constraints of the work determine the price. They can often go up to like $500 depending on what needs to be done.

    The second is someone who wants a higher level implementation (full website build, product site etc). These typically have several thousand to put into a solution and will want to work with someone with design prowess & technical ability to pull it off. These are typically successful "offline" businesses who need a website to remain competitive. The majority of "agencies" out there will serve this type of buyer - $3k,$5k,$10k per project. This is the type @Fox targets.

    The third is a company with relatively deep pockets to spend on something substantive. They may have their own digital platform, or some other "mission critical" piece of digital infrastructure that requires constant support & maintenance. I don't have much experience at this level but I imagine the work to be quite gruelling with extensive amounts of preparation required. Budgets can be in excess of $100k (full app build or similar).

  3. There are two types of developer - "paint by numbers" + creators
    The majority of people scratching a living doing it are "paint by numbers" people. They are getting paid to install a premium Wordpress theme, change the menus/widgets and adding pictures.

    As you'll appreciate, anyone with 2hrs + a functioning brain can figure out how to do this stuff, which is why these people are to be avoided. If you find yourself heavily relying on the likes of DIVI or Elementor, you need to take a look at your value proposition.

  4. Websites are a part of a MUCH larger equation
    Most are high on the digital kool-aid and don't really consider "why" people are buying so many products online. I am convinced that there will come a point where people disassociate from the Internet like they do TV and radio now. It's become a massive billboard.

    If you are involved in "web design", please be weary of adding to the circus. People don't want to be sold every 2 seconds and will actually deplore attempts to make quick money.

    Of course, you'll always get people trying to exploit those without self control, but when it's flagrant, most will see through it (hence bad reviews etc). Online, there are basically 3 ways to make money:

    - Sell an existing (in demand) product cheaper
    - Sell a new (innovative) product at a premium
    - Build a community around something extraordinary & sell products from that

    If you're not doing the first, you're doing the second. The third is for influencers.

    If you are doing the second, you need to look at what @Black_Dragon43 has written before about marketing to understand how to create an effective (and valuable) funnel. Being able to present a product in a way which triggers someone to buy it is basically where the "real" value of a web dev lies.

    Succinctly, you need one reason why your product is different (preferably better) than what exists. You then create a digital experience (website) showcasing the core benefits of what you've got, and then use some marketing magic to get people interested. If you've got the experience, you will supplement this with offline traffic generation (advertising/PR) to drive demand.

    ALL digital values derives from the following formula: traffic x conversion = sales.

    If you aren't getting someone traffic, you need to make sure you're converting what they get already.

  5. The real money is in PLATFORMS
    The big money lies in the ability to create a platform (SAAS).

    To own a platform which is a) useful, b) high value, c) popular, d) worth paying for is one of the most valuable business models in the modern world. Not only do you get recurring cashflow, but you're able to add/change the product as the market evolves.

    Every big player in the digital space should be focused on the creation of an effective platform to keep users coming back.

    If I owned Gymshark, for example, it's where I would be focusing the majority of my R&D spend. Getting people into a space where they are able to keep themselves fit & moving towards higher quality goals is basically what the brand represents, and providing them with the ability to a) showcase their progress, b) network with others, c) get discounts/introductions to similar brands & generally build a new "fit family" is what will amplify their offering.

    The clothing would become a step along the brand journey (not the destination as it is now), allowing the business to multiply its revenue without having to acquire more customers.

    Of course, they won't do that, they're 100% dependent on Shopify lol, why would they put $1m's into their own bespoke SAAS solution (that's where someone like me comes in).

    -

    In other words, if you want to "get rich" with web design, dump any money you make into an actual asset (brandable platform). The quality and depth of the platform drives its worth. This is how Shopify started.
There is a bunch more stuff I could add, but I'll just say that "web design" is basically like what typesetting was back in the day - a means to help someone get their message across.

As you'll probably appreciate, none of what I have mentioned here touches on the "technology" aspect at all. That's because the real value of the web is the way in which it helps companies reach a wider audience.

Understanding how to get in front of that audience and provide an offer they are inclined to want to purchase is where the value lies. And when you're competing with someone who's got like 17 years experience with PHP, Ruby, C, marketing, selling, art direction etc, you have to provide results.
 

biophase

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That is exactly what i was thinking man, i justed wanted to know if can still make money out of it because i'm gonna need that to fund the real goals.
Thanks a lot for taking the time and replying to my post. I'm already well familiar with HTML, CSS and Javascript but i'll buy that bootcamp you recommended.
Thanks again, i appreciate it
How I am interpreting this is that you will become an average web developer. Because you really don’t want to do web design, but are doing it to make money to fund another venture in the future.

It will be very hard for you to compete against people who do it full-time all the time as their main business.
 
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Hai

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Web design is not only about designing beautiful websites.
Most people still don't really understand what it's about.

1. Design Thinking - The advancement of digitalization means there is a lot of opportunity to optimize processes. Even inside the process of optimization, there are still a lot of inefficiencies. That's why UX design is so big. Design thinking itself is all about solving tangible problems of real people today!
For example, when going on a shopping site, were you annoyed that suddenly all your items in the basket disappeared? That's when UX comes in.

2. Digitalization - The web enables businesses to get cheap leads with almost zero-cost. They can connect from the US to any person around the world. And vice versa. It started with the tech bubble in 2000s, and there are still way too many areas to improve on. It's like modern architecture and engineering and is here to stay.
 

James Klymus

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I really believe the “it’s too saturated” mindset is just another way your brain tricks itself into not taking action. Go out there and figure out if it’s too saturated for your self. Figure out how to do things differently than the other 10,000 people that took the same Tai Lopez course. No one has all the answers for you. Sitting on the sidelines wondering if things are too saturated isn’t productive
 
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tigerbalm

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Hahaha totally, Fox and Dan got everyone on the train. (Not a knock at all, those guys are amazing). Web design is pretty saturated right now indeed, but there is still money to be made. I think the key is working with local businesses that may be more inclined to work with you since you're in the same city/state.

If you're feeling really saucey, get into web development. There is a pretty big shortage of developers right now, and it is a higher barrier to entry than just the design stuff because you're writing code and building custom solutions that cannot be solved through tools that some designers use - elementor and wordpress and such.

My approach has been: Do web development, get more senior roles, use the great income from the day job to fund other endeavors / invest. But also pick up the skills to build software while you're on the job so you can apply it to your entrepreneurial projects. It's a long and arduous process, but the ability to build something solo is invaluable, and (this might be an unpopular opinion - perpetually stuck in the slow lane) learning to code is a pretty future proof skill, so you'll have the opportunity for well paying jobs in the future if the entrepreneurship goes to shit.

Check out some bootcamps if you're wanting to go this route (this is how I learned, bootcamp in 2016), or if you're a motivated self starter, below this is a great course for learning (no affiliate links or anything, just love the guy and his courses). A note on the course: it says it's 129.99 right now, it's a weird marketing tactic udemy uses, but wait a couple days and it will go down to around ten bucks. Good luck to you sir!

 

Raoul Duke

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While everyone was busy arguing about market saturation I was in thialand for two months on vacation and made around 4-5k in a month from posting basic craigslist ads and using templates to build websites for businesses in my free time between riding a motorcycle around the island and snorkeling with cute little fishies with my girlfriend. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

View attachment 37447

View attachment 37448

post craigslist ads, put up a template website exactly like this one, and don't be a weirdo when selling them over the phone. takes a day or two.


How dare you get his/her hopes up like that.

YoU kNoW iT tOoK yOu 30 YeArS tO bReAk InTo ThIs InDuStRy....
 
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Raoul Duke

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sfarieri

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Literally everyone in this forum is going for web design / web development biz, or anything close to that. Is it still a good choice in 2021?
Personally, don't ever see web design being a bad choice. Businesses pop up every day.
 
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Stargazer

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Looking at your location, the sub-saharan bit of your continent is , along with Asia, the fastest growing economic zone in the world.

All these satellites being fired up into space to get Africa online will provide a massive demand for online services.

You can see what works in UK/US and apply to the millions of businesses that are starting up and will need connecting to the web.

Dan
 

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Literally everyone in this forum is going for web design / web development biz, or anything close to that. Is it still a good choice in 2021?

Lots and lots of money in it. Real big $$$! Just listen to @Kak radio show. I mean Kyle is all about no employees, web design business. How you dress doesn’t matter and all the greatest hits! That’s why you are right, all of us here are web designers and copywriters.
Also, don’t get a dog, it’s too much work.

BABD16CF-1429-4AF6-AFE0-EDB18907E5E2.gif

(Inside jokes, stick around and you may find them a little funny).
 
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Branko

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Literally everyone in this forum is going for web design / web development biz, or anything close to that. Is it still a good choice in 2021?
I also want to learn web design, but also web development, and app development, and programming in general.

Front end web development and design is just the lowest barrier of entry. But when you get some more skill, the competition drops, because its hard to learn a lot.
 
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Mohammed ED-DAHB

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Apparently you need to know all the essential web development languages to get a chance in this industry nowadays
 

K1 Lambo

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It depends on the industry. I'm in the marketing industry and from my experience most marketers are always approaching either e-commerce brands or fitness supplements since there's so many of them. Why? Because that's where most money is made and everyone is approaching these clients with the same spiel: "Hey, if you pay me $3000, I'll bring you hundreds of leads in the next couple days", and these companies/owners hear that very often. Doesn't mean that you can't make it but it's a lot harder for you to standout. You're essentially fighting for 1/20 of the cake instead of going for the cake.

You could try approaching it from a different angle. Look for companies who don't even have a website or if they do, ask them if you could improve it because you've noticed there is something that is making them lose 10% of customers each year. You got to be very specific.
 

Mohammed ED-DAHB

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Helping business owners will always be in demand. Don't be just a "website guy".

Be the guy who helps business owners get more sales online... by developing a killer website.
Yeah that makes sense, thanks for the advice.
 
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Mohammed ED-DAHB

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Hahaha totally, Fox and Dan got everyone on the train. (Not a knock at all, those guys are amazing). Web design is pretty saturated right now indeed, but there is still money to be made. I think the key is working with local businesses that may be more inclined to work with you since you're in the same city/state.

If you're feeling really saucey, get into web development. There is a pretty big shortage of developers right now, and it is a higher barrier to entry than just the design stuff because you're writing code and building custom solutions that cannot be solved through tools that some designers use - elementor and wordpress and such.

My approach has been: Do web development, get more senior roles, use the great income from the day job to fund other endeavors / invest. But also pick up the skills to build software while you're on the job so you can apply it to your entrepreneurial projects. It's a long and arduous process, but the ability to build something solo is invaluable, and (this might be an unpopular opinion - perpetually stuck in the slow lane) learning to code is a pretty future proof skill, so you'll have the opportunity for well paying jobs in the future if the entrepreneurship goes to shit.

Check out some bootcamps if you're wanting to go this route (this is how I learned, bootcamp in 2016), or if you're a motivated self starter, below this is a great course for learning (no affiliate links or anything, just love the guy and his courses). A note on the course: it says it's 129.99 right now, it's a weird marketing tactic udemy uses, but wait a couple days and it will go down to around ten bucks. Good luck to you sir!

That is exactly what i was thinking man, i justed wanted to know if can still make money out of it because i'm gonna need that to fund the real goals.
Thanks a lot for taking the time and replying to my post. I'm already well familiar with HTML, CSS and Javascript but i'll buy that bootcamp you recommended.
Thanks again, i appreciate it
 

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