Dressing For Success... Stop looking like a fool.

[MidwestLandlord]

GREAT thread @Kak

A&E's shoes/boots are awesome. But for guys that are hard on shoes, the cost can be kinda steep.

I've found Ecco brand boots/shoes to be great. About half the price of A&E's, great quality, and I think all of their selections have non-slip soles that still look like a flat soled boot/shoe (non-slip being important in the north where I live, but most non-slip soles look clunky...these don't)

I buy 2 identical pairs, wear each every other day. Shine them weekly in winter, monthly in summer. They last a good 6 years or so, then they get turned into lawn mowing boots (probably look stupid mowing in chukkas/wing tips/derby's/chelsea's, but who cares lol)

That works out to about $66 a year for 2 great pairs of boots.

I have about 30 pairs of shoes/boots lol

 

[Kak]

I think for business or politics it's pretty simple; 3 suits, 1 grey, 1 navy blue and 1 black or black with pinstripes. Wear them for business and alternate between them.

You honestly can do just fine with 1 suit and multiple shirt and ties. Having something too fancy sometimes look like you're trying too hard or into fashion or something. And you usually don't wear any pocket squares either for business. It's more for special occasions.

Pocket squares are very rare for me. Black suits have also fallen out of need. Like we have discussed earlier in this thread, they end up making you look like a waiter or limo driver.

Agreed about "fancy" nothing flashy ever. You don't want to draw attention to your clothes EVER. You want clothes to basically be part of you and your leadership. To support your goals Just part of the bigger picture.

 

[WJK]

When I went to court as an expert witness, I dressed the part. When I was a trophy wife, I dressed the part. ( And I noted that the higher-up corporate guys even dressed the same during their weekends in their casual corporate garb.) Now I'm retired professional real estate investor, and I wear my old favorite overalls. I no longer have to worry about looking or dressing the part. I have earned this role. Who do I have to impress at this point in my life????

 

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[Kak]

I get noticeably different reactions when I'm shopping in a nice jacket and tie vs wearing my sweaty workout clothes. Wearing a simple dress shirt in a restaurant will make most waiters treat you differently than if you're wearing a loose t-shirt.

I have noticed this as well. BIG TIME.

On airplanes. In restaurants. In hotels. In nice stores. The list goes on and on.

I even shopped around my wife's engagement ring in nice clothes. Those high end places think you're full of shit wanting to spend a Mercedes C class on a ring if you are wearing a T-shirt. The bastard is almost like a C class to insure... but that's another story.

 

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[Vigilante]

@Kak

Is this suitable attire?

Spoiler: Suitable, Yes?

Warning points issued

 

[Kak]

What do you think of groomed facial hair stubble (like designer facial hair stubble) for professional meetings instead of clean shaven? Do you think people would it's inappropriate or would it be out of place?

I have a baby face when I shave.

Think of a 9 figure millionaire CEO cutting a deal. Without thinking of anything else, what does he look like?

I shave clean every day. It's actually rare among the 40 and under crowd these days. They think they are being rebels with big hipster beards, in reality there isn't really anything unique (or extra manly) about beards or facial hair these days. It’s just facial hair.

I wouldn't really care about facial hair as long as it looks professional. The scraggly beard thing... no.

 

[Kak]

Bump.

I put the summer linen stuff in the back of the closet, even though I'm in the South.

I'm now wearing darker colors and wool again for sport coats. They fit damn nice too because of my keto diet.

 

[Ayanle Farah]

Hey man, Conor Mcgregor dressed for success but it didn't stop him from getting his a$$ whooped by Khabib, the work you put in is what matters, not your dress code.

 

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[The Abundant Man]

"Are you Steve Jobs? Are you the Billionaire owner of Apple? You're not? Good! Then you have no business wearing New Balance sneakers EVER!"

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5zJoaJXbiE

 

[MTEE1985]

@raad182 Would I be correct to assume you haven’t read all 12 pages of this thread? You seem to be commenting thinking that the thread is a “dress for success and success will come” school of thought. It is not.

What it is about is this: in virtually every business situation you could encounter as an entrepreneur you are better off being the best dressed as opposed to the worst.

When you see somebody like Mark Zuckerberg in his jeans and t-shirt, it is not his “I don’t give a sh*t” attitude so much as he has bigger problems so he standardized his outfit.

What MJ is referring to in his book is what we strive for, but for your benefit, do not mistake his “FU” appearance with a blanket idea of “entrepreneurs can dress however they want”

P.s. everything @GPM said above is correct. Kak is too modest to say those things about himself but read some of his gold threads and you’ll quickly see why it’s best to listen to his advice.

 

[MTF]

Have you ever dressed up for Halloween and found yourself acting like the character you took on?

I dressed as Batman last Halloween and I just had this urge to do Batman things, talk in a funny voice, swing my cape around, act like some badass....

The urge to act the part just came over me.

That's what made it click for me. That Halloween experience woke me to the fact that I needed to dress in the way that better aligned with the behaviors I want to model and what rung of the social ladder I want to occupy.

A long time ago when I was an inline skater I used to wear baggy sweatpants when skating. I wouldn't say they immediately turned me into a hoodlum, but I was definitely more prone to hoodlum-like behaviors. At the same time, as weird as it sounds, I felt noticeably "looser," as if the bagginess of my sweatpants affected my muscular relaxation.

In comparison, back when I used to wear a suit daily, I behaved in public in a much more formal and distinguished way. At the same time, I definitely felt more constricted and felt as if I were repressing a part of my personality.

Clothes change you, so it's important to be conscious of what you wear and how it affects your behavior and mood.

 

[PapaGang]

I've worked places that required suits, and I've worked in startups.
Wearing a suit changed me. I was more effective, organized and efficient.

I spoke recently with my boss and mentor, who is a former executive of Anheuser-Busch and he said the same thing. He was a different person with the suit on.

Quick story about dressing the part:
He told me at the time he worked out of Denver.

His first sales call was in California. He flew coach, stayed at a Holiday Inn near the airport, rented a compact car. He turned in his expense report on a Friday.

That Sunday, he gets a call early in the morning that the Executive Vice President wants to talk to him Monday morning, they had a flight booked for him to St. Louis already. He gets to the airport around 11, and finds he's got a first-class ticket. He flies out to St. Louis, a limo picks him up, and he finds they booked him at the Four Seasons that night.

Monday morning, the Executive Vice President has this expense report on the desk, and asks this sales executive, "How do we do things at Anheuser-Busch?"

Executive: "The right way?"

Executive Vice President: "NO. We do things FIRST CLASS here. Why do you think we sent out a stylist and purchased all those expensive suits for you? When you fly first class, you meet the kind of people we want to know and do business with. When you're having a nightcap at the Four Seasons, you'll run into someone who owns a franchise, or a resort. A potential account. At the Holiday Inn bar, you're going to be talking to the Fuller Brush man. It's about the people you associate with, and the opportunity it creates. From now on, EVERYWHERE you go, you fly first class. You stay in the best hotels. I don't want to see any more expense reports like this."

This was in the 80s, but the point still resonates. Associate yourself with the kind of people that create opportunity for you and them. If you're looking to do business with first-class people, you need to look the part, whatever that may be.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

But I swear lifting subtly changed the shape of his shoulders in such a way that it looked like he had different (better!) bone structure!
It literally made it look like he had better genes.

Making serious progress in weightlifting requires addressing all of the horrible posture problems that people accumulate in this sedentary society; and that alone makes you look significantly more muscular.

Hell, I've seen people on various fitness subreddits post "before" and "after" pictures where all they did was correct their posture.

Literally everything about your life improves when you are good at weightlifting. And women should do it too.

Edit:

Tom Platz (quote below starts at 5:50):

"... I'd be some homeless guy in Detroit if it wasn't for bodybuilding. It gave me a life. So right now, it's not about the money, I don't care about the money, it's not about gaining position as a bodybuilding player in the business, it's about just giving back to something that really gave me a lot, it gave me a life. And that's the reason I'm here."

 

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[AgainstAllOdds]

Maybe just a regular office shirt would do fine? With short sleeves, as it may get hot in factory locations?

I currently go with long pants, sneakers that can get dirty since I go on construction sites, and a nice polo.

 

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[DustinH]

I read a book a while back about how to be a "Rainmaker" in your organization (I am in real estate so this is an important concept for me personally). The book had somewhere around one hundred things rainmakers do that other people do not. The only concept that really resonated with me enough for me to remember it to this day said "the rainmaker should dress to be the best-dressed person they will see that day."

That makes total sense to me. Does that mean wear a suit and tie everywhere everyday? No. It means dress a little better than anyone else in the crowd in which you surround yourself. Just always be a little bit better dressed than everyone in the room.

 

[Kak]

@Kak what would you suggest for the following situation?

In downtown here, the outfit for 99% of everyone is dress pants, dress shirt, dress shoes (Monday to Thursday) and jeans and dress shoes with a golf or button shirt on Fridays. Bankers wear suits, almost no one else does. Ties are also rarely worn, but they do look sharp and make one stand out when compared to the masses.

What would you suggest one wear when going to meet people for lunch and informal greetings. Also, what would you suggest to wear for actual meetings?

What I would say is that it depends on who these people are. Who are the people that just wear a dress shirt and slacks? To me a dress shirt and slacks looks like an employee. The golf shirt on Friday is "casual Friday" to me that says "yay Im allowed to wear something besides my typical crummy Walmart dress shirt". I would venture that you could dress a level above them and do well.

On bankers... Around here most of them wear very dark suits mostly black. Thus my comment earlier about black suits also being emoloyees. A banker isn't the prestigious job it used to be.

One level better than these employee types, in my opinion, would be the same look with a sport coat. Make sure the shirt is nicer than average too. Believe it or not, regardless of formality, you will probably be dressed nicer than the banker in his every day cheap black suit.

 

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[Kak]

I've only ignored one person in the history of this forum. I might have just made it two.

Sometimes all it takes for me is one comment and I know I never need to read another post from them.

 

[Kak]

i just did 2 sales direct to client in downtown business district, wearing jeans and a tshirt. wearing a suit makes you a massive douche bag imo. or you need to beg investors for $.

poor people usually dress up to look professional, but to me they just look like slaves, its hilarious to see these people jam packed side to side on a train (or better yet a bus!) riding public transit looking all fancy.

being from vancouver ive been surrounded by wealth all the time and its always the lower class that dress up and the insanely rich that look average. just my thoughts

no thanks. i prefer looking like a fool.

I think there is more too that fool thing than just your look.

 

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[Duane]

I understand the concept of this thread and agree with the importance of dressing properly for each situation, BUT where are the pictures of some of your outfits @Kak?

I’m not trying to out you, but it seems silly to take style advice on a forum where barely anyone here even knows what you look/dress like.

You can tell people know what they're talking about by reading the feedback they give and seeing how the community responds.

I am very big on dressing to impress and have indulged semi-heavily in the fashion industry. I think it's some great advice he is giving and he doesn't necessarily need to post pictures of himself to prove to you he knows what he's talking about.



On a side note:

The way you feel when you dress nicely can be an enormous confidence and energy boost.

I shower every morning and almost always wear nice clothes when I go out because I not only feel better, but I'm also more productive and to be honest, people talk and treat you differently depending on how you dress and act.

If I don't shower and dress up, I just feel unmotivated and lazy. What I mean by dressing up is just looking nice and like I give a damn about my appearance, that doesn't have to mean being in a suit and tie though.

Wearing a nice pair of jeans and my favorite shirt at the computer I feel better and am more productive than being in a tank top and sweatpants.

It radiates into my work and my phone calls when talking to clients.

 

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[Kak]

barely anyone here even knows what you look/dress like.

Enough do.

 

[WJS]

A bit defensive, eh? This is a business and entrepreneurship forum. If someone is going to give style advice here it only makes sense to see how they personally dress.

Eh, just seems silly. Would you take fitness advice from someone you’ve never seen just because they sound knowledgeable?

Maybe you should stop posting further for the time being, and take the time to read the Gold and Notable threads. The way you comment makes you look foolish. When I first joined the forum, I didn't even make my first post until I have a general idea of how this forum works, the mentality behind it, what is encouraged and what is frowned upon.

Granted, I've never met any of the Fastlane Forum members, but there are numerous meetups throughout the year, in various locations, and every year around February there is a Fastlane summit as well, where people gather and learn from each other.

So this is not a forum where no one knows no one, and you need to vet through every single thing that is posted. Of course there are lots of opportunists lurking around trying to take advantage of others, but they are usually quickly exposed and are gone.

You do need to be careful about taking advice from strangers from internet, but at least do a bit of homework first so you don't stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[MTF]

Honestly, this whole traditional appearance stuff, 'just because' doesn't sit well with me. Just because some old men decided this was the way you should look, doesn't mean I need to look that way. I ask 'what's the goal here?' Am I here to sell men's suits? No. Then why does society say I have to wear a suit? I understand the point of "playing the game". But I tend to question everything. Who's to say it can't be changed?

I get what you're saying, but ultimately whether we like it or not, that's how the game is played. You can use it to your advantage (given how many people don't care about their appearance, you can easily stand out just by wearing a well-fitting jacket) or rebel against it and reduce your odds of success whenever it's important to look professional.

I get noticeably different reactions when I'm shopping in a nice jacket and tie vs wearing my sweaty workout clothes. Wearing a simple dress shirt in a restaurant will make most waiters treat you differently than if you're wearing a loose t-shirt.

If I want to communicate a specific message ("I mean business"), I wear a shirt and a tie. Do I feel super comfortable in it? Not really (though after wearing it regularly for a certain period of my life I got used to it). Does it get the job done? Absolutely - particularly if you're young and people can treat you like an inexperienced teenager if you're wearing a t-shirt.

Even if you're against the traditional approach, compare these two images (both show business consultant Bedros Keuilian):

Who radiates with power, business experience, and guaranteed results?

All things being equal, would you rather hire a business consultant in a v-neck and a baseball cap or in a suit? No matter what you think about wearing a suit, I'm pretty sure that you're more attracted toward the second guy.

 

[Vigilante]

When I went to court as an expert witness, I dressed the part. When I was a trophy wife, I dressed the part. ( And I noted that the higher-up corporate guys even dressed the same during their weekends in their casual corporate garb.) Now I'm retired professional real estate investor, and I wear my old favorite overalls. I no longer have to worry about looking or dressing the part. I have earned this role. Who do I have to impress at this point in my life????

Amen sister.

 

[Kak]

Every time I put on a suit for an interview I felt like a complete tool. I call it my bullshit suit. Especially when it's not winter and I'm sweating because of it.
My everyday attire is synthetic collared golf shirts and mesh shorts. My wife makes me put on real shorts when we go out. I can't stand pants if it's above 75 degrees. I am in central TX.

But I suppose if you spend most of your time in buildings where the AC is blasting it to 70 degrees, then a suit might not be so bad.

Honestly, this whole traditional appearance stuff, 'just because' doesn't sit well with me. Just because some old men decided this was the way you should look, doesn't mean I need to look that way. I ask 'what's the goal here?' Am I here to sell men's suits? No. Then why does society say I have to wear a suit? I understand the point of "playing the game". But I tend to question everything. Who's to say it can't be changed?
I rather do business with a party that meets my needs and isn't concerned about wearing cufflinks or a tie.

It's one thing to look decent and not shabby. But formal wear really needs an overhaul, particularly in hot climates.

It's not even about the suits... If you had read through the thread... Professionalism, once again, is key. There was plenty of non-suit advice given. A suit is just the top of a man's options (business wise), not the only option.

Dressing super formal in an informal setting is honestly unprofessional, just like wearing a hoodie to a board meeting.

Don't be this guy either:

View: https://vimeo.com/33991795

 

[jmusic]

Lots of good advice on here. I've started to up my suit game after stumbling on Real Men Real Style on YouTube. I had a 3 piece light gray wool suit made when I was in Bahrain, and while the quality is nice, the trousers fit too tight in the seat (I lift so that may be why), and there's no extra fabric to get it taken out. Second suit purchase is a navy 2 piece MTM at a local clothier. Super 160's wool, and the fit is exceptional.

Regarding watches & belts, I always follow this rule: Always match leathers, and always match metals (only allowable exception is a wedding ring). In this regard it helps to have a preference. For me it's dark brown leather and silver metals. The brown leather goes with any color except black (which as mentioned above is best to avoid anyway), and looks GREAT with jeans.

As far as dressing to impress others, I prefer to dress to impress myself. When I really dress up, *I* feel like a million bucks, and that's the only thing that matters to me!

For me, it's the most uncomfortable attire, hands down.
Painful? No.
Aggravating, distracting and borderline claustrophobic? Yes.
I feel the same about just a buttoned up collared shirt.

If a collared shirt feels claustrophobic, it's likely not sized correctly. With off the rack shirts, the collar size also determines the waistline. I'm in between 16.5 and 17, and had to go with a 17 because the 16.5 was almost choking me when I bought a Brooks brothers shirt, but that thing has yards of extra fabric around the midsection. I need to get that one taken in... When I had a shirt MTM at the same clothier, I was able to get a 16.75 collar. Fits perfectly, and not claustrophobic at all.

Regarding matching colors: Jacket and pants need to match EXACTLY (paired suit), or else don't match them at all (compliment instead). In fact, whenever you have your suit cleaned, always send the entire suit to the cleaners whether you've worn all parts of it or not.

 

[Kak]

For those of you that haven’t started this journey, and might be on a tighter budget... I can recommend JC Penny’s Stafford brand... They make a pretty good product at a bang up price.

I own a couple of sport coats from Stafford. Nobody, including myself, knows the difference between a $150 sport coat and a $400 one. Now, the really high end stuff $1200-1500+, there is a noticeable difference.

Stay away from solid colors from the cheap companies.

I’m a bit of an extremist, as long as I’m buying less than absolute perfection, I might as well get 3 of the cheapest I can find that still look nice.

 

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[Kak]

when i first started, i can attest to the stafford brand however it is really subpar in quality. (for heavy usage) when I went to various countries they didnt hold up. Now mind you if you are slowlane by all means a great place to start, but as you progress in skills, income you should seriously invest in the heavy hitting brands of Zegna, John Lobb, Turnbull and Asser, Michael bastian, Burberry, Holland & Sherry etc even used garments from authorized resellers are a good investment. Trust me, it makes a huge difference. People worldwide are much more adept and aware at suits and top brands (not the fake top sh*t brands like LV, gucci, prada, tommy hilfiger, ralph lauren etc) but true time tested suitors and tailors. Mind you this only applies for those of us that are required to wear suits for our line of work.

Interesting perspective. I never thought of the fact that people that are more attire centric in other countries might catch the details that us slobby Americans do not.

I like Stafford stuff for sport coats quite a bit, but I put more effort into my suits. If the sport coats last 2 years I’ll be happy with the purchase.

What I have noticed is the middle-end stuff. The jos a bank, Macy’s, and men’s warehouse suits if you will... That stuff is no better than Stafford, but it’s just sold in a nicer store at twice the price. Even some of the lower end brooks brothers stuff is just Chinese made like Stafford.

Agreed about moving to the much nicer brands there being a nice difference. Almost NOBODY I do business with wears stuff that nice. Around here, even among the lower end millionaires, brooks or banks are pretty much par for the course.

 

[Kak]

There is without a doubt a huge difference especially for the long haul.

Traditionally, men’s suits were constructed with a layer of horsehair canvas underneath the wool fabric shell. This canvas holds the shape of the suit and keeps it from sagging or deforming, much like the foundation of a house keeps it upright.

The canvas lining allows the suit fabric to drape naturally, allowing a clean, well put-together look.

The fussed and half-fuss-half-canvas variants are just horrid as a served foundation and are usually found in the cheap drivel at major box stores.

Haha! There we go!

THIS is why I can’t tell the difference between a $400-500 jos a bank and a $150 stafford. Fused. Chinese. Probably the same generic stuff with two different labels on them.

I really like the way Canali fits OTR and we have MTM store in my city too!

 

[Vigilante]

Jeez didn't know this forum was so full of butt hurt guys who take life so seriously. I can go back and forth with these childish arguments but I am going to end it right here.

::4 minutes later::

You know nothing about me. Stop making assumptions. This one post gave me all I need to know on how simple minded you seem to be. Again, I was just giving my opinion on this matter as the post was dressing for success stop looking like a fool. Sure dressing nice is good and you should definetly do it but don't let it take away from what's actually important. In life, all that matters is execution and if you are good enough. If you have those two, you can wear a dirty chuck e cheese t shirt and jeans with paint stains and beat the guy who is wearing a $1000 armani suit who is an idiot.

 

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[Deleted5250X]

After reading this thread I decided to get more professional clothing.

I went to JC Penny tonight to look for some.

None of the Blue Blazers with Gold Buttons previously mentioned were left. Do these look better with a pattern or simply solid?

I did find another blazer, however it might be more towards the casual side. What do you think. Is it to casual for business?

I’ll checkout Jos A Bank or Men’s Warehouse this weekend.

When you say Golf clothes, what is that considered. Golf pants and a polo?