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HOT TOPIC Don't Learn to Code?!!

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JAWS

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It is inevitable, I would be wasting my time coding.

My problem is that I want to become fluent in the language of HTML, CSS, and Java Script so I may talk to coders in depth about what I want.

Do you guys have resources that I may learn these languages? Particulary, fast :)
 

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Shouldn't you wanting to learn back-end programming languages then?

First thought that came to my head as well. You dont talk to programmers about html/CSS thats what designers do and there is really only a few ways to do them correctly. Its backend programming that you would need to know in order to talk to developers about building things.

Its like the construction crew (programmers developers) vs the siding and window contractors(designers or CSS guys) there is only a few correct ways to put in a window or put siding on a house, but there are a lot of ways to build the house.
 

JAWS

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So if I am minimizing my time investment, I should look into the front end of websites (aka design via HTML/CSS/etc) and conversate through these channels?

Thanks for the feedback guys.
 

Whole Paradigm

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So if I am minimizing my time investment, I should look into the front end of websites (aka design via HTML/CSS/etc) and conversate through these channels?

Thanks for the feedback guys.

No, he's saying to study a back-end programming language in order to soundly speak to a back-end programmer or study design language if you want to speak to the person making your UI. Html, CSS, C++, Javascript, Ruby...and everything in between can be learned through the link I gave you on my previous post.

To clarify, if you want to build a foundation of knowledge in order to speak generally with an expert in that subject, make sure you're studying the appropriate material.
 

JaySoriano

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No, he's saying to study a back-end programming language in order to soundly speak to a back-end programmer or study design language if you want to speak to the person making your UI. Html, CSS, C++, Javascript, Ruby...and everything in between can be learned through the link I gave you on my previous post.

To clarify, if you want to build a foundation of knowledge in order to speak generally with an expert in that subject, make sure you're studying the appropriate material.

Exactly. I actually started learning how to code with the minimum objective of learning how to communicate with developers. I ceased learning because of opportunity cost. If you just wanted to learn the basics, the web is full of tutorials.. it took me about a month and I feel wayyy more comfortable talking to developers.
 

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healthstatus

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Here is how you converse with a programmer.

Here is a mockup of the website/game/app I want to build. See the x in the corner, when the person clicks that, the app closes. See this button, when it gets clicked the options page comes up. here is a mockup of the options page, these are the options I want the user to be able to set. Difficulty means the speed of the game increases, more random bad guys show up. Music on / Music off that means the music plays in the background or doesn't, here is an mp3 of the music......

do this for a few HOURS until every button/link/thingy is shown, talked about, and discussed. Then make yourself available to answer any question promptly.

If a programmer comes back and says "I can't do that." respond with, "help me understand why you can't" ("Sir, the ability to reach out of the monitor and smack someone on the head is not available yet.") "what CAN we do?" ("You can use all caps and call what they want to do STUPID") "ok works for me."

I had a boss way back in the day that always got in a meeting in front of the clients, they would ask something extremely vague, and she would turn to me and say how do you think we can accomplish that? I would answer "Binary bit manipulation should take care of that." (in other words programming), she would then put her BOSS hat on and respond (in front of the client) "Are you sure that will work? Maybe we need to have a team meeting when we get back to the office." :pullhair:

Seriously, nothing irritates a programmer more than someone that THINKS they know about programming and tries to tell them how to do things.

Good programmers know you are not a programmer, they will ask the right questions, they will ask for clarification, but you have to provide good specifications. Do you people all read legal opinions before you go talk to an attorney? Do you brush up on your Pacioli history before you go talk to the accountant?
 

Whole Paradigm

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We all have our own ways of doing things. The kid asked for a resource and he was given one. To do as he wishes. There's a billion ways to make a million dollars and if studying up a little before a talk makes him more comfortable in doing so then so be it.
 

dknise

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It is inevitable, I would be wasting my time coding.

My problem is that I want to become fluent in the language of HTML, CSS, and Java Script so I may talk to coders in depth about what I want.

Do you guys have resources that I may learn these languages? Particulary, fast :)

Not going to lie, when I wanted to build software and knew nothing about coding... I learned to code and got a job in the industry for a year. Now I'm literally a pro.

There are several issues with not learning the trade:
1) Startup costs. How much do you really have to fork over to developers before you even release? If the answer is $0 and you're expecting someone else to "partner" with you to develop your ideas, never going to happen. Chances are they have their own ideas and learned to code to fulfill them.
2) Rapid prototyping. Sometimes you need a proof of concept and paying for it sucks.
3) Without being a developer, how do you know what to develop? Honestly, Apple's entire philosophy is that the consumer doesn't know what they want until they see it. Before I learned programming, I used to ask my brother "is this possible, can this be done?" Now I no longer need to ask, anything is possible. Microsoft's biggest problem right now? They are being run by a "business" guy and not a passionate "technology" guy.

Learning to code is no easy task... I read a 500 page book a week for a year to get myself up to speed. Best investment in my knowledge base and future I've ever done though.
 

Roberteking78

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Get a computer science book. A good one. It will walk you through how computers work right down to the transistors and then, when you understand how it all started and how the computer is manipulated by programming it will teach you the basics of programming. Usually with Java or C.
 

Skys

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Learning to code to become an entrepreneur is taking an extra step you really don't need to take. If you are interested in learning how to program it's a different story. Do it.

With Zuckerberg and twitter, and dropbox.. everybody thinks entrepreneurship is all about coding. It's not.

I think you need to learn how to program. Learn C++, learn Java, learn Python, learn Ruby... Just to see how crazy of an idea it is to become a good enough programmer in the limited time you have to become an entrepreneur and a great programmer.

You dont need to be able to talk code to to talk to a programmer. They are trained to talk to normal people that don't know how to code.

Read this: Learn how to program in 21 days

Then, if you still really want to learn how to program, I think you are best of learning Python. It's the language they use at MIT. There are tons of tutorials to be found how to use Python. Free ebooks that are great, sites like Udacity and thenewboston....

But, think twice. You might just be wasting time.
 

johnp

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With Zuckerberg and twitter, and dropbox.. everybody thinks entrepreneurship is all about coding. It's not.

Well said. Too many people look to these guys and say that you need to know what you are doing to start a successful company.

I'm not one to talk down on Facebook. But it's obvious that Zuckerberg has been spending too much time behind a computer. This company is really pissing me off. He seems to lack logic. Now for the price of $7 you can promote posts in your news feed. I go onto my Facebook now and I become completely discouraged. There are too many ads on the right hand side, my news stream is now cluttered with spam, and now the entire promoting posts is putting images of jackets and clothing on my feed that I don't want to see. I look at Facebook now and I can't even begin to tell you why the site exists. If you had asked me 6 years ago then I would have said that Facebook exists to make the world more open and connected, Facebook exists to help you stay-in touch with your friends. But now, I think Facebook exists just so people have something to. Facebook's sole purpose is to give you something to do - suck up your time. Just like any game that you play on your iphone.

But Zuckerberg and the other business guys there don't seem to realize that. They think their product is better than it is. It could have been, but I think they have killed it at this point. It's just a matter of time.

Even though he built an extremely successful company and even though he is worth more money than I may ever be worth, I don't want to be a business person like him.

Now the Twitter Guy - Jack Dorsey ( i think that is his name) he has stated that he had no intentions of ever being an entrepreneur. He doesn't even see himself as one. He built Twitter because it was something that he loved, and Twitter failed many times before it became a success. But don't tell the wanna be Zucks and Dorsey's that. I think this guy is great, but I would bet my dog that he never would have joined a forum like this. That is the difference between him and us. Same with Zuck.

So yea, I don't get why some people here think you need to be like Zuckerberg and the others. I'll pass.
 

Roberteking78

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Programming will also make you better at math, logic, and problem solving. Even if you're not going to use it, it's worth messing around with to further your education.
 

dknise

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Zuck already pump and dumped on the general public getting twice his company's net worth for selling 20% of the company in worthless common stock. It really doesn't matter if they run it into the ground now haha.

What do Zuck, Dorsey, Larry Page, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Kevin O'Leary, and Mark Cuban have in common with their software companies... they were avid technology buffs who knew their product.

Steve Ballmer is a business man who clearly does not know his product. The direction of Microsoft since the departure of Gates makes that pretty evident.

Without knowing how to code, you can't understand the size and complexity of a project. You have no ability to estimate and no ability to determine quality control or the quality of your employees building your product while starting up.


I'm currently in the process of hiring a sales team... I'm looking for someone who is a technical sales person who can learn the details of our system inside and out (not the code but the structure) and truly knows our product. Virtually all of them don't think it's necessary. They "sell shit." That's what they do. I don't care. When I go on sales calls, I'm often surprised at how technical the questions get as there's usually a developer in the room who is there to judge the service.

Don't be a Ballmer. If you don't want to know your product, don't get in to it.



Now... I say this because Facebook and Twitter ARE the product. My product IS a software service. Microsoft and Apple provide software products. If you're looking to host your product online, and it is NOT software, then ya you don't need to learn to code at all. You just need a web platform to gain access to, which has been happily provided and user-friendly by many developers out there. If your product is software (ie. mobile apps, games, software services and products) then imho, you better know your shit.
 

Skys

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Solving Sudoku puzzles doesn't empower you to create value just by thinking and typing. One is a better use of your time than the other haha.

Haha That depends. If it's just to learn how to solve problems and to become more logical I would suggest Sudoku or chess. There are so many terrible programmers out there, I think I can make an argument that the world would be better of if there where less programmers than more. Excellent programmers are very hard to find. I also think, if you are really great at it, you would probably have found programming already and not at a late age while reading a book about entrepreneurship.
 

Atown512

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If you're looking to host your product online, and it is NOT software, then ya you don't need to learn to code at all. You just need a web platform to gain access to, which has been happily provided and user-friendly by many developers out there. If your product is software (ie. mobile apps, games, software services and products) then imho, you better know your shit.

This is exactly where I find myself. I have several ideas on both sides of the spectrum. I have ideas for mobile apps and other software products, but no idea of what a reasonable price for development would be. I know I will never be a programmer, but I need to know enough to help my developer create my products. Can anyone recommend where to learn "basic" programming that would help facilitate development and help communicate with the developers?
 

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To be honest, I think a lot of people here lose sight of making money, because they become blinded by BIG money.
One can easily start a site (which is the product) or create a tech product, which nets 100K per year. I think that's good money. Hell even 1-2 million per year is extremely achievable. I know people who can't write single line of code and they are making that much.

Just figured that I would say that. I kind of sit on both sides of the fence on the issue.
 

Atown512

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One can easily start a site (which is the product) or create a tech product, which nets 100K per year. I think that's good money. Hell even 1-2 million per year is extremely achievable. I know people who can't write single line of code and they are making that much.
Do you mind me asking where these people are focusing their efforts? In other words, what are they doing that the developer couldn't do themselves? ie: idea generation and needs analysis...Marketing/branding...Testing? etc.

I know it is a waste of time for me to go very deep into programming, so I am focusing on finding problems and solving or making them easier. I have the means to pay a developer, but I can't afford to make many mistakes with the development process
 

johnp

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Do you mind me asking where these people are focusing their efforts? In other words, what are they doing that the developer couldn't do themselves? ie: idea generation and needs analysis...Marketing/branding...Testing? etc.

I know it is a waste of time for me to go very deep into programming, so I am focusing on finding problems and solving or making them easier. I have the means to pay a developer, but I can't afford to make many mistakes with the development process

They are focusing their efforts in bascially everything that you said.

I have the means to pay a developer, but I can't afford to make many mistakes with the development process

A good developer is worth Gold. Finding a good developer is very hard. My advice - If you are going to get your project outsourced then find a developer who will tell your that a feature or request is Fuc*king shit, or not practical. That means that they speak the truth. That is what will save you time and money. And that is when you know that you found a good one. You don't need to listen to them, but it's better to know that they will speak the truth.
 

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To me, this is one of those 'Do it if you want to' things.

If you want to learn to code, do it! It won't set you on the fast track to success but learning a new skill has never hurt anyone. Freelance programmers can make a lot of money from home.

If your primary goal is to start a business, then you don't NEED to learn to code.
 

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