Does your "get rich" internet guru only make $28K/yr?

[MJ DeMarco]

NOTE: This thread is NOT referencing anyone here at the forum, but the idea of it evolved from the plethora of internet gurus who now use this strategy as their "PROOF" of success.

$28,500 a year.

Not a big income right?

In Arizona, that's someone who makes $13.70 an hour working 40 hours a week all year. In Arizona, minimum wage is $10.

$28,500 is certainly not big enough of an income to consider yourself "rich" -- and certainly not big enough to PROVE that you're capable or qualified to give advice about wealth, money, or finance.

If you earned $28,500 a year in the United States, you would be considered lower-middle class, near poverty, depending on your family situation.

But what if you made $35,000 a year and lived at home with your parents, had no utility bills, no student loans, and you still hung out on your parents health insurance plan?

Well $28,500/year is all you would need to lease a Lamborghini Huracan and advertise yourself as the internet's next 25 year old "I'm rich" guru.

Yup, that's how much it costs to lease a Lamborghini, roughly $2,400 a month.





Is $2,400/mo the threshold to symbolize the ultimate in freedom and wealth?

Not exactly.

It's a start.

But it's not going to move any meter, unless your meter is an exotic car used as a prop to fool people into presuming you're making $240,000/mo.

I bring this up because it now seems the litmus test for guru legitimacy is to be standing in front of an exotic car, a Ferrari, Lambo, whatever. Heck, even I did this nearly 10 years ago (although I paid cash for my Lambo).

My point is: If your guru is standing in front of an exotic car, IS PROVES NOTHING. It doesn't prove he/she's rich. It doesn't prove he's "printing money". Heck, it doesn't even prove he/she leased it. Not a day passed in public when I had strangers taking photos in front of my Lambos, as if they owned it.

So please, next time you're evaluating a guru -- please don't look at his exotic car and presume it's a symbol of "oh wow, he's rich."

If anything, it might prove that he makes less than he's projecting.

Something to think about...

While I haven't owned an exotic in a few years, if I ever own one again I'm not sure I'm going to be taking pictures of me standing in front of it. Maybe 10 years ago, but in this day-and-age of using exotics as props, I think it might have the opposite effect. Or am I just too jaded because I'm aware of it?

 

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[masterneme]

Here in my garage...

 

[MJ DeMarco]

It shames me to admit this given the quality of the book, but the "Lambos and road to wealth" theme came *this close* to putting me off TMF .

I wrote TMF more than 10 years ago and it was a different time. But yea, that angle is probably costing me some readers in today's climate.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

What about the people that share bank statements/deposits to their social following saying "I made xx,xxx in ONE DAY"

Like one of my brokerage accounts here?

Hey @MJ DeMarco curious what your thoughts are on how you, with a real, valuable, actionable, insightful product to offer (TMF ) would approach the market in today’s world.

I probably wouldn't have written the book in today's market. Too many fakers, too much noise, too much saturation.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

MJ stands out because he’s passionate about waking people from their slumber, rather than passionate about taking money from them.

You hit the nail on the head here.

In my value hierarchy, awakening is #1. Money is secondary. Most gurus have money #1 and their primary goal is extracting as much of it as they can from you.

As the saying goes, there is nothing new under the sun. I remember in the late 80s, maybe early 90s there was a guy pitching a get rich quick course (real estate based, I think) where most of the tv info-mercial was set on a yacht with a bunch of girls on it. The pitch was "I came to this country broke, and look at me NOW! You can do it too!!!" Rodney Wu I think? It was a long time ago but the yacht was the equivalent of the supercar in the picture.

Tom Vu, my favorite!

 

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[Andy Black]

Without @SinisterLex, we would never have awoken to being played by these sleazy marketers.

I think (hope?) many of us know instinctively they are sleazy marketers? Especially as it’s so prevalent now-a-days.

It’s taken me a while to purge my Facebook feed of all the ads promoting the laptop & hammock or lambo & supermodel lifestyles.

Facebook seems to have realized how poor the user experience is getting - hence their recent algorithm updates.

The spammers will just adapt their strategies and/or move elsewhere. The cycle will continue as the current strategies are flogged to death and new ones pop up that differentiate the smart sleazy marketers from the me-too sleazy marketers.


Linkedin seems even worse, which surprised me since it’s supposed to be more business related than Facebook.

I do think the world is slowly waking up to the script, and MJ’s message is needed now more than ever - lest people dig themselves further into debt buying over-priced and over-hyped lifestyle courses that promise secrets and shortcuts that can’t be kept.

It seems like the whole internet is in a warrior forum feeding frenzy at the moment.


@SinisterLex showed us how premeditated and intentional the top guys are at getting their market to raise their hands and part with their cash.

Unfortunately, much of their market seem to be turning around and trying to apply those very same techniques to their past selves.


I’ve no doubt many people are getting the initial help they need to start their unscripted life.

I’ve also no doubt a lot of people are getting fleeced and a LOT money is changing hands... going from the hopeful to those preying on them.


I also see this as a massive opportunity for those of us whose heart is in the right place and who can genuinely help people get started in their entrepreneurial endevours.

The coaching and courses space is already huge and likely just going to keep getting bigger.

I just hope that those who do best will be those who can genuinely make a difference, and not those who are the cleverest marketers.


MJ’s books are a breath of fresh air in this space.

MJ stands out because he’s passionate about waking people from their slumber, rather than passionate about taking money from them.

It’s MJ’s *intent* that makes this forum an oasis online.

 

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[rogue synthetic]

While I haven't owned an exotic in a few years, if I ever own one again I'm not sure I'm going to be taking pictures of me standing in front of it. Maybe 10 years ago, but in this day-and-age of using exotics as props, I think it might have the opposite effect. Or am I just too jaded because I'm aware of it?

It shames me to admit this given the quality of the book, but the "Lambos and road to wealth" theme came *this close* to putting me off TMF .

I think you're zeroing in on a real trend, though. You're not the first I've heard mention that the landscape is changing, as far as what kinds of images, writing, themes are effective in marketing.

For one thing I think that some segments of the population are getting more savvy to the standard Bro-marketing arsenal -- all the images and phrases are saturated and losing their force.

It can't capture attention if it no longer stands out from the background noise.

Here's a more interesting question: just who is getting clued in, and who isn't? And which of these do we want to do business with?

It's easy to game traffic, pull in the kinds of folks lured in by pictures of hot cars and diamond watches and other signs of consumption.

Is this traffic worth having?

Maybe for somebody. But maybe there are advantages to having more sophisticated customers.

It's a good reason to think hard about your market, and just who your message is reaching.

 

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[GuestUser4aMPs1]

Like one of my brokerage accounts here?

Wrong. You need more black boxes



Love your choice in filenames ("fake-statement.jpg")

 

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[Maxboost]

It shames me to admit this given the quality of the book, but the "Lambos and road to wealth" theme came *this close* to putting me off TMF .

I think you're zeroing in on a real trend, though. You're not the first I've heard mention that the landscape is changing, as far as what kinds of images, writing, themes are effective in marketing.

For one thing I think that some segments of the population are getting more savvy to the standard Bro-marketing arsenal -- all the images and phrases are saturated and losing their force.

It can't capture attention if it no longer stands out from the background noise.

Here's a more interesting question: just who is getting clued in, and who isn't? And which of these do we want to do business with?

It's easy to game traffic, pull in the kinds of folks lured in by pictures of hot cars and diamond watches and other signs of consumption.

Is this traffic worth having?

Maybe for somebody. But maybe there are advantages to having more sophisticated customers.

It's a good reason to think hard about your market, and just who your message is reaching.

I still think this type of marketing still works as I believe it will always be a numbers game. If you can attract 100,000 people to look at your ad and read great copy you are almost guaranteed to lure in a few suckers who will shell out a few hundred for a course or consultation. It should be enough to cover the cost of marketing, everything after that is gravy!

You are forgetting that 99% of people are still stuck in the matrix. They want EASY money and someone to hold their hand. In comes the GURU. Without @SinisterLex, we would never have awoken to being played by these sleazy marketers.

 

[minivanman]

I'm probably one of the few but when I see someone standing in front of a car like that, here is what happens in my mind.... RED FLAG RED FLAG!!!! He is probably fake and works at Burger King.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to rent one of those mansions for the day to video in?

 

[Kak]

I truly believe one of the keys to true wealth is being willing to wait on this stuff. The cars, the boats, the watches, the McMansions. All of it. Be comfortable, but just build the foundation now. One day let your older, richer and wiser self decide if a Lamborghini is for you. Fortunately for your continued wealth you'll probably choose a silky smooth Lexus and keep building.

Money is magnetic, it opens doors that bring you more of it. Buying this shit early, when it's still a stretch, kills the golden goose. You don't need a flashy car to be taken seriously.

My favorite car is an S650 Maybach and the above is the reason there isn't one in my driveway. One day it will be a nothing to own one, right now it isn't. Will older, wiser, and richer Kak ever bring $200k to a dealership to actually buy one? I have no clue.

 

[RobD88]

I'm a Ford F-150 kind of guy so the Lambos never impress me anyway....

 

[AubreyJ]

I agree with you, though I think this marketing works and will work for a long time because there are so many people who just automatically see a Lambo and assume wealth, freedom, and credibility

What about the people that share bank statements/deposits to their social following saying "I made xx,xxx in ONE DAY"

I see those (and I see a lot of them through Youtube, Instagram, and Facebook) and can't help but think they are full of it...maybe I am just a skeptic though

But, flashing your bank statements and exotic cars screams red flag to me

 

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[masterneme]

Last summer a bunch of young Spanish Youtubers made a metric f*ckton of money with a simple strategy.
4 or 5 got together and rented a house with swimming pool, they called it the Youtuber Mansion

Every day they all uploaded videos showing what a great time they were having in "the mansion", and each video got millions of views.

"Selling the dream" just works.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I was listening to a podcast where you spoke about your decision to change the book cover based on the public response. It's refreshing to see you practicing what you preach.

Yes, it wasn't received very well, despite the fact that I liked it. Probably now a collectors item, lol.

 

[Xeon]

Here in my garage...
View attachment 18731

Tai when he was 9.

 

[GPM]

Looking at your monthly lease payment made me feel sick to my stomach.

I have never owed anything for a vehicle in my life. Always purchased used cars in cash. For 15 years of my life I would purchase a "new" car every 3 or so years for $3-3,500, and then sell the "old one" for $1-2,000. My cars would require new tires, and regular maintenance, but nothing major. If they required major work (my poor Subaru needed a head gasket...) I would sell them with full disclosure as to the work required.

Oh, and I always worked in what was considered high-class corporate positions, or their equivalent in the oil field. Only recently did I splurge on something nicer. And that was a 3 year old Acura, also paid in cash at less than half of the new list price.

The thought of having a payment on anything puts a pit in my stomach. The thought of a payment on a super-car toy makes me sick.

 

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[sdbrownlie]

The one I'm seeing more and more these days - probably more than the lambos from 'newer entrants' is the 'real sales' scam because most of their targets don't get the difference between profits and sales.

Especially when accumulated over many, many years.

I saw a course sold by a 'genius ecommerce guru' who has sold over $3,000,000 online over the last 7 years.

He was mostly dropshipping cheap items - what do you think his margins were? Even if they were 25% that's only just over $100k/year.

I used to work at a bank, there's thousands and thousands of small businesses doing 1-10M a year in revenue in larger cities. You'd be surprised how little profit that usually means they make for themselves.

But people see those big headline numbers, bank statements showing the money coming in etc and fall for the whole 'dropshipping cheap stuff is going to make me a millionaire' angle he's pushing. It might... but often the guy (it usually is a guy sadly for us guys...) selling you his $2,997 course isn't the one to show you how to do it as he hasn't made it himself yet.

Heck he's probably making 1/2 what a kid just a couple of years out of college spewing out disposable JavaScript code for a startup is making in the Valley. Not really very fast lane...

 

[#nowhere]

Most of those marketers use "fake it 'til you make it". A lambo (put in another 6 figure luxury good), even if possible to pay, is not affordable at this stage, but it can be used as a tool, a shortcut, to new customers.

I often observe these guys on twitter etc... profile pic: Guy with lambo/ferrari/big beamer.
Then they transfer the zeitgeisty sayings like:

"I'm twenty, lambo, 7 figures....blah blah blah. Average 22,23,24,25,26 something:

• broke
  
• in debt
• out of shape
• has gf that is this or that way"

yeah, maybe they are right that this is the average guy, and I wont argue that this were not true... but they all take the same line. It's pretty boring.

They try to make a highly individual thing, aka life and/or entrepreneuship, as mainstream as possible. Everyone has to have a 7-8 figure corporation, photos of receipts from designer stores (every other day 5-6k) and lambo. If you dont you are average. Average is bad. Bad means you have to buy their products. I doubt this culture.

And I do believe that everyone has to find their own way to freedom. Flipping appliances or revolutionizing the market of XYZ. You decide.

 

[MythOfSisyphus]

Guys like MJ are the exception, but 99.9% of people who are making great money have absolutely no desire or need to teach other people how to do it. This fact makes me immediately skeptical of absolutely anyone claiming to have a secret or a system to create wealth.

Hell, even the gurus who are rich, usually got to be that way simply from charging people to learn how to make money.

I'm possibly just a bid jaded from my time spent on the warrior forum. That's also probably why I find this forum such a refreshing change.

 

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[Andy Black]

Also making $2374.98 a month means you can HONESTLY claim to be making a six figure sum.

I always have to look at my fingers to work out what a 5 figure and a 6 figure sum is.

Unless I’m mistaken then $2,374.98 per month is four figures a month and five figures a year.

(Goes back to staring at his hand...)

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

It was many years ago when I was a raw 20 yr old, but I still remember the anger and frustration I felt after being shamed by gurus and seminar hustlers because I couldn’t afford their big-ticket, high pressure upsell. I was guilted into believing that I “wasn’t serious about wealth” because I didn’t want to charge and max out my credit cards for a $4000 weekend seminar.

After 30 years I see nothing has changed.

This unnerving experience is part of what motivates me today. Hopefully I can make a small difference and save several from some ruinous financial decisions while also creating some baby-billionaires along the way.

Please feel free to share if you’ve been lectured and shamed that “you’re not serious about financial freedom” because you didn’t want to pony up 4 or 5 figures for some training program, seminar, or masterclass. Learning how to make a fortune shouldn’t cost a fortune. ~ MJ

 

[jcvlds]

I'm a Ford F-150 kind of guy so the Lambos never impress me anyway....

Ditto! Perfectly happy with my F150

It’s taken me a while to purge my Facebook feed of all the ads promoting the laptop & hammock or lambo & supermodel lifestyles.

Damn, I need to do this.. never thought of it lol

I probably wouldn't have written the book in today's market. Too many fakers, too much noise, too much saturation.

Totally understand, and I think many honest folks like you think the same.. just makes me feel bad for the ton of people out there who are mostly stuck with the fake gurus out there getting scammed

 

[GuestUser4aMPs1]

Tom Vu, my favorite!

"Come to Mah Seminah."

 

[Blackadder]

Are you saying Hubbard was a type of "get rich guru"? The short clip seems to show him in the same vein.

You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.
~L.Ron Hubbard~

• Response to a question from the audience during a meeting of the Eastern Science Fiction Association on (7 November 1948), as quoted in a 1994 affidavit by Sam Moskowitz.

 

[DavidTT]

NOTE: This thread is NOT referencing anyone here at the forum, but the idea of it evolved from the plethora of internet gurus who now use this strategy as their "PROOF" of success.

$28,500 a year.

Not a big income right?

In Arizona, that's someone who makes $13.70 an hour working 40 hours a week all year. In Arizona, minimum wage is $10.

$28,500 is certainly not big enough of an income to consider yourself "rich" -- and certainly not big enough to PROVE that you're capable or qualified to give advice about wealth, money, or finance.

If you earned $28,500 a year in the United States, you would be considered lower-middle class, near poverty, depending on your family situation.

But what if you made $35,000 a year and lived at home with your parents, had no utility bills, no student loans, and you still hung out on your parents health insurance plan?

Well $28,500/year is all you would need to lease a Lamborghini Huracan and advertise yourself as the internet's next 25 year old "I'm rich" guru.

Yup, that's how much it costs to lease a Lamborghini, roughly $2,400 a month.

View attachment 18721

View attachment 18720

Is $2,400/mo the threshold to symbolize the ultimate in freedom and wealth?

Not exactly.

It's a start.

But it's not going to move any meter, unless your meter is an exotic car used as a prop to fool people into presuming you're making $240,000/mo.

I bring this up because it now seems the litmus test for guru legitimacy is to be standing in front of an exotic car, a Ferrari, Lambo, whatever. Heck, even I did this nearly 10 years ago (although I paid cash for my Lambo).

My point is: If your guru is standing in front of an exotic car, IS PROVES NOTHING. It doesn't prove he/she's rich. It doesn't prove he's "printing money". Heck, it doesn't even prove he/she leased it. Not a day passed in public when I had strangers taking photos in front of my Lambos, as if they owned it.

So please, next time you're evaluating a guru -- please don't look at his exotic car and presume it's a symbol of "oh wow, he's rich."

If anything, it might prove that he makes less than he's projecting.

Something to think about...

While I haven't owned an exotic in a few years, if I ever own one again I'm not sure I'm going to be taking pictures of me standing in front of it. Maybe 10 years ago, but in this day-and-age of using exotics as props, I think it might have the opposite effect. Or am I just too jaded because I'm aware of it?

I actually find it interesting that you say that.

Back when I used to be a valet driver at an upscale mall, we had lambos coming in daily and I had my supervisor, who had driven tons of them (even drove a Veyron 5 times lol) tell me that Gallardos were the choosen car for the "faux riche". A lot of owners would buy it, barely being able to afford it and not being able to afford maintenance on them so there was always tons of light on the dash, bald tires, etc. Overall, a lot of them in very poor condition due to the owner not being able to afford the maintenance cost.

On the flip side, we had a billionaire come to the store on a regular just driving a black range rover or maserati, trying to stay off the radar. He also dressed pretty normal, jeans or dickies etc.

We also had a hockey player averaging ~$6.5 million/yr dress like a construction worker and just driving a basic e-class.

 

[ay47]

The problem is: this shit works like magic. I've been to many seminars in my country where everyone is selling the dream (for research purposes, I want to learn how to market that well). My main take-away is: slowlaners want simple solutions to difficult problems. They want to make money but they don't want to do any thinking. Gurus give them the answer. Follow my step-by-step magic formula / system and you will make money. These gurus are making money like gangbusters. Each of these seminars had like 300 pp. And I estimate about 2/3 bought the $9997 systems the gurus are selling.

I dream of converting that well.

 

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[MarekvBeek]

Tom Vu, my favorite!

Like Johnny Wu

 

[Lord Business]

I don't know if it's by default or a learnt thing for me, but I'm automatically drawn to rich and successful people, who drive midclass cars, live in midclass homes and work long hours. For me this is much more amazing and aspiring to see than a "millionaire" with a lambo. Like Robert de Niro, dude is in a great grandfather-aged and still pumping out 2-3 movies a year like a it's the only thing that matters in life. That's what I want to emulate.
A little off the topic..sry
"With great power comes great responsibility" - Spiderman's uncle.

 

[WJK]

I don't know if it's by default or a learnt thing for me, but I'm automatically drawn to rich and successful people, who drive midclass cars, live in midclass homes and work long hours. For me this is much more amazing and aspiring to see than a "millionaire" with a lambo.

I totally agree. What I see, when I see that successful person still working, is a person with real character. They believe in the life they've built, and they are still contributing value to that life, and the community around them.