Does anyone else dislike the "Startup" community?

[G-Man]

The people that start and run successful "startups" don't throw or attend events like this, they're too busy working.

If the shit these people peddled worked, they'd be so busy creating massive companies that they wouldn't be interested in having seminars and networking events.

 

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[eliquid]

I hope I don't catch slack for this, but I kinda dislike it as well.

I'm from Louisville and they have a small startup scene. These events they have like the OPs event experience happens in parts of Louisville that tend to be "hipster" and "trendy" and "starbucks-y".

Now, just for clarification.. I love my coffee from Starbucks. I have nothing against hipsters or "trendy". I really don't.

But what happens is a group of 100 or so "wanna-bes" get together and cheer on whoever is speaking at the time about their "dreams" of a startup and what they are working on, which almost always I can tell within the first 5 seconds is something that will flop and fail.

No one with real business experience comes to the events. It's always people working a 9-5 or people living in mom's basement with no real goals showing up. The word "startup" tends to attract people that are new, inexperienced, and green.

Hey I know people gotta start somewhere, so I am not digging at these people. But if you try to tell them something different like, "maybe you should do this instead".. they look at you like you're a dream killer and then proceed to ask you, "well who are you mr bigshot.. I didn't see you pull up in a maybach".

Eh. Maybe it will change.

Startups is the new MLM

.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Can't speak for the start-up scene locally, but over on the tech-coast it reminds me of a high-school clique where you're either part of the "IN" crowd, or you're trying to get in.

Both times I sold my company involved a Silicon Valley company and it became pretty clear to me, if you aren't a part of the clique, you aren't anybody they want to hear from.

Speaking locally, I went to a startup event many years ago and while the woman speaking had a good resume, all she did was name drop and use buzzwords from the aforementioned clique. She then proceeded to talk about an hour how you can become part of the clique through various networking events, cold-emailing, and VC prospecting. Zero mention of "build something valuable." By the time she was done, I found her somewhat sniveling and disingenuous -- not someone I'd want to work with.

Anyway, to go back to the question... I don't "dislike" the startup crowd, but IMO, they are teeming with elitism, or wannabee elitism.

I'm sure Hollywood is similar.

 

[TreyAllDay]

A bit of a rant here - I'm just curious what everyone's opinion is of their local "startup" community. It was "Startup Week" this October in my town (not sure if this is a global thing), so there was a few open events. Honestly, a majority of the community seems really self-absorbed. Constantly throwing around buzz words like "disrupt" and "hack", and focused on "impact" without seemingly any reason why. I don't know why I have always sort of disliked this community, maybe need to give it more of a chance!

 

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[Andy Black]

I worked in a startup once upon a time. You know, the one with full blown VC funding, weekly vision updates to the company, play stations, and free breakfast.

I even bought "The Lean Startup"
to try and get up to speed... except I couldn't get past the first few pages as it was so academic and ... well ... non-lean.

All the startup language makes me want to puke in my mouth a little. You can take all your pivots and validate somewhere else thank you.

When the goals are a round of funding and an IPO then genuinely helping people gets lost in the mix.

Supposedly €40m funding ... down the drain. I wonder if anyone misses it?

Don't get me wrong, Paul Graham's essays are excellent.

But I'm not into unicorns.



As for the culture surrounding startups ... I avoid that. I want to deal with local service businesses that actually have customers, preferably with designs on going national or international.



One of my neighbours went to a county enterprise event where the success stories paraded in front of everyone were those "startups" that secured big rounds of funding. He asked if any had made any revenue yet and was told to sit down and shut up.

The Irish government is looking for the next "Stripe"d Unicorn. I don't know if employees in government organisations are the best for advising startups. They're giving away free money, but the time it would take to jump through all the bureaucratic hoops is too much. You literally couldn't pay me to apply for a grant.


And as for big events explaining how to start your own startup? I always wonder what the likes of MJ or Vigilante would think when they're there.

If bona-fide business owners wouldn't want to be there then I figure it's not a B2B play, so must be a B2C play.

 

[craig1928]

 

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[TreyAllDay]

The people that start and run successful "startups" don't throw or attend events like this, they're too busy working. If the shit these people peddled worked, they'd be so busy creating massive companies that they wouldn't be interested in having seminars and networking events.

Exactly. And the funny thing is, these types of people worship Elon Musk because he does things to "propel the world forward" and isn't just concerned about money. But don't realize how much value he had to create to make his dreams a reality.

 

[ZF Lee]

The people that start and run successful "startups" don't throw or attend events like this, they're too busy working.

If the shit these people peddled worked, they'd be so busy creating massive companies that they wouldn't be interested in having seminars and networking events.

I hope I don't catch slack for this, but I kinda dislike it as well.

I'm from Louisville and they have a small startup scene. These events they have like the OPs event experience happens in parts of Louisville that tend to be "hipster" and "trendy" and "starbucks-y".

Now, just for clarification.. I love my coffee from Starbucks. I have nothing against hipsters or "trendy". I really don't.

But what happens is a group of 100 or so "wanna-bes" get together and cheer on whoever is speaking at the time about their "dreams" of a startup and what they are working on, which almost always I can tell within the first 5 seconds is something that will flop and fail.

No one with real business experience comes to the events. It's always people working a 9-5 or people living in mom's basement with no real goals showing up. The word "startup" tends to attract people that are new, inexperienced, and green.

Hey I know people gotta start somewhere, so I am not digging at these people. But if you try to tell them something different like, "maybe you should do this instead".. they look at you like you're a dream killer and then proceed to ask you, "well who are you mr bigshot.. I didn't see you pull up in a maybach".

Eh. Maybe it will change.

Startups is the new MLM

.

@eliquid , I don't think it will go away anytime soon.
It's simply group polarisation at work. Put a bunch of similar-minded people together, and they become even more convinced that what they are doing is absolutely notable. One person's mind plus one person's mind...you get double the power of the ideology involved. Multiplication in play.

I feel that 'hipster' and 'trendy' are very generic terms even for clothing or fashion. These terms could mean anything. Last time, they might mean rock or disco music. Now its some new-fangled techno music lol.

I get an ominous feeling when I see businesses advertise themselves using such generic phrases....do they stand apart by themselves at the end of the day?

Agreed. Not much of a startup community locally, but I got tired of Tim Ferriss for his constant startup talk.

....and Richard Branson too. Clogged up my social feeds.

Honestly, his business that made him rich were actually BORING and UNSEXY industries. A music distribution business at his time was a taboo industry. And the airplane business was rife with politics and blackmailing and commoditization. There was absolutely nothing startup-ish about Branson's major ventures. I just don't understand why he adds fuel to the falsity of such events.

Can't speak for the start-up scene locally, but over on the tech-coast it reminds me of a high-school clique where you're either part of the "IN" crowd, or you're trying to get in.

Both times I sold my company involved a Silicon Valley company and it became pretty clear to me, if you aren't a part of the clique, you aren't anybody they want to hear from.

Speaking locally, I went to a startup event many years ago and while the woman speaking had a good resume, all she did was name drop and use buzzwords from the aforementioned clique. She then proceeded to talk about an hour how you can become part of the clique through various networking events, cold-emailing, and VC prospecting. Zero mention of "build something valuable." By the time she was done, I found her somewhat sniveling and disingenuous -- not someone I'd want to work with.

Anyway, to go back to the question... I don't "dislike" the startup crowd, but IMO, they are teeming with elitism, or wannabee elitism.

I'm sure Hollywood is similar.

It is. How else do you think for every successful actor banking coin, there are fifty who can't even put food on the table?
The illusion of elitism blinds lots of the newbies so that they lose track of what to aim for.

New actors get the buzz from the triumph of the big names and marketing, that they leap into the fray aiming to be 'one of them', only to miss out the whole point of acting: to present authentic artistic and visual prowess.

it is akin to the falsity of studying to get a big score instead of enhancing one's knowledge. Blinded by the elitism of the 'nerds'.
It's not as if everyone were trained on a daily basis to always, aim for value.

But IMO, I suppose that the end test of it all is whether the effort, be it going to a startup event or not, banks coin eventually. Will I be able to get my stuff out to more people? Better suppliers? More legacy structures to sell more?

I never went to startup events because they DIDN'T offer any of these opportunities, not even in their testimonials, if any.

Networking is not wrong, but it's not supposed to be the only thing you do.

Startups are not the only way to get rich. Or, it's NEVER the way to get rich. To think it does would be barking up the wrong tree.
This reminds me of last week's dinner with my relatives.

My dad took me to my grandpa's house. In front of it was a huge house. A bungalow with multiple balconies, an elegant gate, and they seemed to be expanding the side of the house with more rooms!

I had seen that house every time I came to my grandpa's for Chinese New Year. I never asked about who lived there although they were neighbours with my grandpa.

Out of the blue, that day, my dad said, 'Son, the people who live in that big house made their fortune in selling chickens.'

Yup, chickens. Not some new-fangled app or spreadsheet mahogany I keep seeing trumpeted on the Quora startup section. Raw chickens. Chickens that you take home to fry, boil or stew.

Wholesale chickens, to be exact.
Supplied to the city markets. We were in Kuala Lumpur, the capital of my country, so there was a lot of space for banking coin.

My dad continued, 'In fact, they send us chickens every Chinese New Year. Lots of them.'

Me: 'Oh! No wonder grandma cooks a whole bunch of them!'

I don't think such people ever went to startup events to make a fortune, let alone freedom!

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I've noticed that by working hard to benefit the customer and growing naturally the people you want to talk to will suddenly appear and find a way to get in touch

True. This is why I say build something. Do something. Have something demonstrable. Several years ago I had someone pitch me for an investment. I didn't really take him seriously because all he had was an idea and words. Six months later he showed me a concept that was pretty impressive. Suddenly I was interested.

are you saying you were part of the clique

I was not.

In fact, they made it pretty clear they weren't interested in anything I had to say, despite being a founder with significant domain experience. Worse, the new CEO (who replaced me) took credit for starting the company publicly and then proceeded to label me as a "chauffeur", as if after I sold the company for the second time, I went back to driving limos or taxis.

Both companies ended up bankrupt.

Yes I have stories, the complete arrogance and elitism is astounding.

 

[socaldude]

I absolutely can't stand any of these terms.

It's as if Academia went on an awkward blind date with Entrepreneurship, and Academia raped entrepreneurship with some date rape drugs and had a bastard child called "start up" or "disrupt" or "pre-revenue".

It's more about academia trying to put their nose where it shouldn't with their know-it-all and elitist hard headed ideas.

We got a 12% acceptance rate, million dollar endowments and a big name! So don't you dare try to explain this phenomenom called entrepreneurship on your own cause we got it all figure out! Oh and we also came up with some BS terms so you can memorize them for the next exam! Nevermind thinking critically.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

It sounds like a lot of you are jealous of the super successful growth hacker ninjas out there.

I think this is more aimed at the startup sycophants who download Wordpress and then waltz around saying they're now the CEO of a "startup."

I don't think anyone here would dismiss someone who's deep in the scene with multiple wins under their belt. But nonetheless, it's more of a "who you know" vs "what you know" culture.

Think you're running a startup?

1) Do you have funding from an outside investor not in your circle of family or friends, one that entails a 40 page document?

2) Do you have more than 1 employee who actually has a marketable skill that would be worth at least $100K in the job market?

3) Do you have a product with a discernible value skew or problem solving ability? Something that took longer than 2 weeks to develop? (Hints of a productocracy?)

4) Do you have a mention in TechCrunch with the usual description full of startup jargon, stuff like "Collaborate", "disrupt", "native environments" and "synergistic blockchain"?

Yes to all 4? Congrats, you have a startup!

 

[minivanman]

There is good reason for what goes on at these 'events'. If I showed up and talked about how hard it is, how many hours it takes and what hell some have to go through to get to where they want to be do you think anyone would be cheering me on? Would they buy what ever I had for sale? The people that want to hear the real world challenges read books by people who have actually been there and done that. It's an act, I look at those things like I do a tv show..... I never go to them and I never watch tv.

 

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[Eskil]

What I don't like is the start-uppy stuff - VC funding, science, learning, etc.

Haha yes, not to mention another cringe word... "incubator".
So, you're gonna join an 'incubator' to start/launch a business? So you can sit around in some cool facility and circle jerk with a bunch of other dudes who also thought they could make it big because they are in an 'incubator'? Ok buddy.

(Not saying these are all worthless but to think being part of one is gonna help skyrocket yourself to your dreams is not that different than ordering business cards with 'CEO' on them before you have even picked out a product)

 

[Carol Jones]

A lot of people are in love with the start-up life: sitting around on beanbags, playing fussball or table tennis, paid lunches/snacks/beverages but not a lot of people actually love the grind.

A lot of well-funded startups are just burning through VC cash: bad customer retention, self-organising teams with people that are not capable of self-organising, weekly check-ins to justify your existince/job, and updates filled with vanity metrics such as cumulative account regs.

Good morning @maverick from Oz,

Of course they're in love with the lifestyle. Because endless days travelling. Indulging in a hedonistic lifestyle. Is perpetuated by both those who have made it. And by the media.

Richard Branson kitesurfing with Barack O'Bama. Or at his Necker Island. Or his African safari estates. Or ballooning.

Elon Musk wing walking on a bi-plane.

And how about those lazy days in the Carribean? Before Irma.

The myth is alive and well.

If these 'upstarts' don't read books, they'll never know the truth. That 100 hour weeks is the price. And sacrifice. For 'making it'. And once there, you still can't take your eyes off the ball. Disasters happen in the blink of an eye.

I've no doubt Richard Branson and Elon Musk had their phone in their back pockets when kitesurfing and wing walking. They are never disconnected from their enterprises.

These startups have probably never heard that the only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

Perhaps the venture capitalists who fund them don't know that either.

I've just finished reading 'The Power Of Broke' by Daymond John. And was dismayed at how much of his own money he has lost backing startups that go nowhere. Having a VC is no guarantee of success.

Hard work. Self-discipline. Consistency. Vision. Will get us all to where we want to be. ~Carol❤

 

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[G-Man]

these types of people worship Elon Musk because he does things to "propel the world forward" and isn't just concerned about money.

People unwilling or unable to produce anything others are wiling to pay for always idealize and regurgitate this drivel. It takes me back to the nonsense I had to listen to back in my non-profit days. Back then, everyone was talking about "social enterprise", then the word "sustainable" got tacked onto everything.

Next year it'll be another word, but it'll be the same people, and they still won't have done much.

 

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[Eskil]

Lol, yeah you're not the only one... and I giggled to myself when MJ brought up his thoughts about the 'startup' terminology in his latest book, Unscripted . I nodded in agreement, lol..

When I hear the word startups, I immediately think of what @eliquid and @TreyAllDay said - hipsters throwing buzz words around, wanting to 'disrupt an industry' or saying shit like "we're gonna be the ________ of ______" (insert whatever gazillion dollar valuation success company here) - but without actually being focused on value, or often not having any business experience.

I mean, we're technically all "startups" here too, but you never see Fastlaners throwing these words around. It's kinda cheesy IMO. Just say you're starting / running a business. Saying you're a 'startup' more often than not comes across as trying to impress.

 

[cor]

It just seems very vain lately. There are a lot of people that invent or create solutions to problems that never really existed and that people don't really need. It's also usually done in the hopes of getting acquired. So the business model doesn't even need to work or turn a profit to be successful. It's usually just the appearance of doing something or creating something valuable.

It reminds me a lot of the internet of shit. Overengineering solutions or products, putting too many features that nobody wanted or that lack substance. I see this a lot and it's a real head-scratcher. I guess it's people starting businesses, that aren't business people, but know how to program.

 

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[Ravens_Shadow]

Moved to North Carolina a few months ago. Decided to go to a "startup tech expo" where thousands of people were going to attend with investors galore. Went to go check it out because why not? After all, its free!

Made a ton of connections!

Wait.. I made zero connections.

There were about 150 people in total and 90% of the companies with a "table" had nothing to do with software or tech. I made a quick round, saw a bunch of circle jerkers and decided to book it. Just about zero value was being provided. Just mouth foamers wanting to join the "startups" there by passing around their resumes or lawyers and insurance agents wanting to get me as their next big client.

I did get a chuckle out of a guy running around handing out business cards to anyone and every one who would take one. He wouldn't even say hello, he'd just stick it in someones hand or throw it on a table. You know how many calls he probably got the next day? Zero would be my guess.

 

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[Beijing]

Here's a list of words that I hate:

podcast: somehow everything is a podcast these days, even if it is hosted on Youtube, never downloaded and saved to a physical user-end device and no one owns an iPod anymore.

entrepreneur: I'm technically an entrepreneur, but this word is the last one I want to use to describe myself. I've started stooping to using it recently, however, just to avoid talking about what I do with a stranger who won't understand. Most people are smart enough to avoid a conversation about work with an "entrepreneur," so I avoid wasting my time by using this word. But I don't want to be an entrepreneur. I want to be a successful business owner with $1,000,000 sitting in the bank unneeded.

startup: By definition, I'm running a startup. But I won't use this word for it. In fact, I don't even know what this word really means. Technically, it translates as "an unproven business idea what is bleeding money at a frantic rate." I don't want to own a startup. I want to own a proven, revenue generating business as quickly as possible.

disrupt: I don't want to talk about how my idea is going to disrupt an industry. I want to own and be selling a product so successful that it is commonplace and not a legitimate topic of conversation because everyone buys a few more every months as part of their routine.

hack: What does this even mean?

team: Why do I need a team? Is it because I'm not good enough at what I do or my ideas aren't good enough to simply have employees who trade their time for money turning my ideas into reality so that I don't have to sacrifice my own time in exchange for being able to sell great products to grateful consumers? Why do I want my employees to be a part of a team? So that they can disguise their lack of contribution in the confusion that comes with team efforts?

transparency: lol, what?

 

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[Daniel...D]

A bit of a rant here - I'm just curious what everyone's opinion is of their local "startup" community. It was "Startup Week" this October in my town (not sure if this is a global thing), so there was a few open events. Honestly, a majority of the community seems really self-absorbed. Constantly throwing around buzz words like "disrupt" and "hack", and focused on "impact" without seemingly any reason why. I don't know why I have always sort of disliked this community, maybe need to give it more of a chance!

Really, if you don't find anything useful for yourself there, just don't spend time on events like this

 

[rollerskates]

"pre-revenue"

My new favorite term!

 

[mrarcher]

I've noticed that by working hard to benefit the customer and growing naturally the people you want to talk to will suddenly appear and find a way to get in touch. I've never been to one of these "networking" meet ups so can't talk from experience in that respect but I have noticed that as I grow within my industry there have been a few "big players" getting in touch and talking about working together. The funny thing is that if I'd emailed them when I first started I probably would have never heard back.

 

[NewYorkCity]

I work in sales at a Venture backed startup.

They are very real (We have had a few deals with world class institutions), however a lot of them are pure hype.

Honestly you shouldn't give them any consideration until they have a few solid deals under their belt. If they had a good product its not THAT hard to get at least a few small organizations to sell to.

The ones based off a real problem and less hype... typically "non-exciting".... and are spending their time and money going to trade shows to get in front of decision makers instead of trying to impress the local hipsters at a "Start up event" (unless they're looking for programmers or something).

 

[rollerskates]

The whole scene to me in a nutshell: unkempt hipsters young enough to be my children throwing buzzword frisbees in hopes of hitting someone who wants to give them money.

 

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[Xeon]

Having worked in startups for a major part of my working life, I can totally relate and agree with what you guys are talking about.

Can't say the same for other countries but here's what our local startup scene and their weekly startup networking sessions are like:

Buzz words like combinator, incubator, ACCELERATOR get thrown around everywhere. They always host all these startup events every Thursday or so, with pizzas, coke and fries free flow. And lots of PlayStation and xBox Ones with 70-inches TVs in the middle of the room. Guys wearing shorts with assorted hipster hairstyles with funky names. All of these guys LOVE retro and indie video games. Always.

And at these events, there's always some guest speakers, all of which are unheard of. Even the supposedly "big names" seem mediocre in their list of achievements.
Some of the activities they do at these startup meets include networking, circle jerkin, feel-good pats on the shoulder. Everyone laughs and feel hip together, then it's time to go back home.

Recently, there's this trend of startup entrepreneurial contests, where you pit your startup prototype and mocks against a few other startups. The one who wins gets a small check and some photography session, and it gets uploaded to the startup networking group's Facebook. Lol

 

[Jose L. Nimmons]

It depends on where you are looking. Generally speaking, I look for real entrepreneurs, people who have helped a startup or founded one several times. If you have any experience under your belt, you have had some "sure things" that have gone south on you, and that can be very humbling. They have had every bad thing happen to them and have to deal jerks and shady characters of all kinds. These people are a joy to work with. They do not expect the world to owe them anything, they make no excuses for their failures to raise money or build their company, and they know that failure is always a possibility.

On the other hand, I stay away from "wantraprenuers." These are people who are on their first startup and hang out at a well publicized incubators, go to all the tech meet ups, and seem to know all the other wantrapreneurs in town. They are generally insufferable. They want everything for free and do not like to be asked hard questions about their company.

I suspect it is because there is a whole industry dedicated to sucking money off them, and so they are pursued, lauded, praised to high heavens and told they are their idea are bound to put facebook out of business. Why? Because certain people make money by getting contracts with them for real estate, consulting, and service providers of all kinds, and so they tell them what they wish to hear.

These people tend to think that it is fun to run their own company, it is hip and cool, they are in a trendy sector, and that it isn't really hard work. They believe they can just hire the people they need to do all the hard work like generating revenue, and so they spend all their time on development and pitching for money, no time actually build the company. I have met people who have spent years on development, blown through tens of thousands of dollars or more, and still have nothing ready to sell. Yet they will tear your ear off on how wonderful their idea is.

So if you look at the low end, you find lots of junk, but that is likely true for any profession.

 

[LeoistheSun]

Okay I found some pics of a "Startup Incubator" in Isla-Vista. If you didnt know where that is, its in Santa Barbara aka UCSB (Party Central University)...

These pictures are epic:

"Lets lounge around to greatness they said"


As I mentioned, startup-incubators include way to many distractions and promote the idea of well: Have a great idea? Build it with us! <-- Without validating it of-course!

 

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[Eskil]

Worse, the new CEO (who replaced me) took credit for starting the company publicly and then proceeded to label me as a "chauffeur", as if after I sold the company for the second time, I went back to driving limos or taxis.

Lol, wow seriously?! The audacity of some people is astounding. And yeah, I bet you couldn't wait to get back to being a "chauffeur" after getting acquired, lol..

And hahaha.... that starterpack and those photos. I saw that starterpack on Reddit a while back and I laughed out loud. Those pics are pretty much spot on too. "Startup" in a nutshell.
I have personally visited a few of these places as I was invited by friends who worked there. It's pretty much exactly like this. Low productivity, but extremely high COOL and chill factor!

 

[MoreVolume]

I dislike the 'startup identity'. Someone coming up with a mediocre idea, taking investors money, executing badly, losing it all and then justifying it because there were "just a startup".

from what ive seen (and read) most people think that any business is a startup
there are people with dropshipping and tshirt sites talking about how they run a startup

 

[Kruiser]

A couple of years ago, I went to a panel discussion hosted by my local startup networking organization. This was before I came across MJ's books. Anyway, one of the speakers was from a local company that is absolutely taking off. He basically started his talk by saying something like "Sorry I haven't been too involved in the 'community.' We've just been too busy growing . . ."