• The Entrepreneur Forum | Startups | Entrepreneurship | Starting a Business | Motivation | Success
  1. Join 40,000+ entrepreneurs
    who are kicking butt and
    winning their dream life.

    Unscripted™ Entrepreneurship:
    A Business That Pays More Than Money, It Pays Time.

    "Fastlane" is an entrepreneur discussion forum based on The Unscripted Entrepreneurial Framework (TUNEF) outlined in the two best-selling books by MJ DeMarco (The Millionaire Fastlane and UNSCRIPTED™). From multimillionaires to digital nomads, the forum features real entrepreneurs creating real businesses.

    Download (Unscripted) Download (Millionaire Fastlane)  Register
    Registering for the forum removes this block!

FORUM SEARCH

Get answers about starting a business from real entrepreneurs. Powered by Google.

Day Trading

Discussion in 'Investing/Trading/Cryptocurrency/Altcoins' started by Dicky Dee, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. Dicky Dee
    Offline

    Dicky Dee Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    85
    Joined:
    May 25, 2014
    Rep Bank:
    $486
    Does anyone have a day trading course they have taken and can recommend?

    Im looking to add more cashflow aside from my e commerce business and since Im on the computer all day, why not?

    I've seen http://www.pennystockstraining.com from Timothy Sykes but im not sure if thats a decent course or not.

    Thanks!
     
  2. fhs8
    Offline

    fhs8 Bronze Contributor Speedway Pass

    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    269
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2016
    Rep Bank:
    $1,527
    No you cannot consistency become fastlane by daytrading. High frequency trading has removed almost all market inefficiencies. Most HFT make fractions of a cent on each trade which shows just how little money can be consistently made from daytrading.

    Timothy Sykes from what I've heard advocates selling short penny stocks. There's a few problems with this. Most brokers require 100% or even more margin requirement for selling short penny stocks. All brokers that I've seen charge money to borrow shares on top of trading fees. Penny stock share availability is very limited and forced buy-ins may happen. Forced buy-ins are when the shares that you've originally borrowed have sold to someone else. You must have lots of money sitting on the sidelines on top of your short positions so you don't have to cover in case it goes in the wrong direction. Then there's the possibility of a trade going against you big time which would result in you going bankrupt look up True Religion for example. I don't think selling short penny stocks is more profitable than going long small cap stocks with high standard deviation. If shorting penny stocks was so profitable then more people would short them until it's no longer profitable to justify the risk over other investments. So I would stay away from shorting penny stocks.
     
    AubreyJ likes this.
  3. Dicky Dee
    Offline

    Dicky Dee Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    85
    Joined:
    May 25, 2014
    Rep Bank:
    $486
    Thanks for the reply.

    Im not necessarily wanting to become fastlane by day trading but I figure it would be more of a income boost (or loss) to what im generating with my business. Do you have any recommendations on how an individual should be starting to invest or do you not suggest day trading at all? I have some long investments in big companies and have traded marijuana stocks but my main strategy is just buy low sell high, I figure before I continue I should have more knowledge on indicators of what will go down and what will go up and perhaps tools people use that I may not be aware of.
     
    V8Bill likes this.
  4. MidwestLandlord
    Offline

    MidwestLandlord Legendary Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

    Messages:
    1,367
    Likes Received:
    9,183
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Rep Bank:
    $31,899
    Why not spend the free time on improving and further building your fastlane venture?
     
    Kingmaker likes this.
  5. Joao PS
    Offline

    Joao PS Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    21
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Rep Bank:
    $137
    Hi Dicky,
    I quitted my job in 2016 to become a full-time daytrader and I broke recently. Not because the markets are bad, the courses are stupid or X or Y excuse.

    The fact is: You'll have to study a lot to understand the market and all of its complexity. And it requires time, a lot of. Nowadays I still being a daytrader, but with another mindset. I am studying this since 2014/2.

    In conclusion, if you'll dedicate just a bit of time to study and practice, then it doesn't worth your will. It's more probably you'll lose money and time. I think 2 years of hard study and practice is a nice time to become a good trader.
     
  6. fhs8
    Offline

    fhs8 Bronze Contributor Speedway Pass

    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    269
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2016
    Rep Bank:
    $1,527
    It wouldn't be an income boost. In fact it should be an income loss.

    Unless you're reading 10-Qs or have good insight in the companies you're investing in you probably should just avoid picking single stocks and pick an ETF instead.


    You lost your shirt because market inefficiencies are too small.

    If you study it enough you'll know that you'd need to be a high frequency trader.

    If you study for 20 years you'll still be just as bad.
     
  7. Dicky Dee
    Offline

    Dicky Dee Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    85
    Joined:
    May 25, 2014
    Rep Bank:
    $486
    I actually still spend a lot of time growing the business as that is my role in the company, I have employees in place to do day to day tasks and I outsource everything I can. That being said its either start a 4th company or try something new like day trading, although Im not well versed in day trading Im interested to learn or take a course to see if its something that can fill the space in my 24 hour day.

    I dont mind studying and researching, im a quick learner. Fact is I wont know if im good at something unless I do it, maybe i'll be brilliant at it, maybe I'll lose a big chunk of money in my first week, but anything beats regret of not trying. If you have courses or anything I can research please advise.
     
  8. Dicky Dee
    Offline

    Dicky Dee Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    85
    Joined:
    May 25, 2014
    Rep Bank:
    $486
    Thing is I dont know how to invest in a ETF, as I mentioned Im not a seasoned trader thats why I'd like to learn before moving forward, is there any good resources or courses you can recommend?
     
  9. Joao PS
    Offline

    Joao PS Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    21
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Rep Bank:
    $137
    Sorry, I'm brazilian. I have 5 bought courses but all in PT-BR, I think it doesn't can help you...

    But, I know a american trader called "Oliver Velez". He has good free material. I think his course is a bit expensive, but, if you search, you'll find a good free material.
     
  10. sharkas
    Offline

    sharkas Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    37
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    France
    Rep Bank:
    $242
    You should not buy courses from say-so traders. You should start by learning technical analysis if you want to be a day trader. John J. Murphy books are the best for that. Then, you should start dismiss 99% of people advice about trading, especially online (Quora..). Fact is, people spending all their time talking about trading on Quora like website are those who lose money and are like "I can't make money so you can't either, here is why" .
    You should never watch the financial news. You should learn to make your own hypothesis (Scientific method). You'll need to go trough trial and error. The fact is, online, you will read a lot of cringe about "You can't beat the algorithms, high frequency trading is too strong, blabla". Trading is a zero-sum game, but this approach is flawed. You don't need to beat them.
    Read this article : Man Versus Machine: Algorithmic High Frequency Trading And You

    This forum can bring you a lot. The best traders have an entrepreneur spirit, they have the guts to go their own way, make their rules. Do you think you're the kind off independent person ? Do you have the character required to be trader : discipline, rules, detachment from emotions and to dollars, divergent thinking ? You can test yourself here, to have an approximatively test of your personality related to trading : Tharp Trader Test - What type of trader are you?

    If yes, you will make money in trading. At the end, as other have said, it's just a matter of choice. If you just want to "try it to see" you will lose money. Either you go in, or not. You don't have to lose all your money during 5 years as some people said, unless you are stupid, but you will have to practice a lot, read some huge books, and create your rules. I see people making good money with trading, on a consistent basis (not always with day trading), but again, to go Fastlane with the financial world, you'll need more. You'll need that entrepreneur thinking I talked about, and see where you can go from there.

    Good luck
     
  11. Joao PS
    Offline

    Joao PS Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    21
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Rep Bank:
    $137
    Wow. Thats it.
     
  12. Dicky Dee
    Offline

    Dicky Dee Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    85
    Joined:
    May 25, 2014
    Rep Bank:
    $486
    Thanks for your input, which books were you referring to? Id like to get started.
     
  13. Chazmania
    Offline

    Chazmania Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    744
    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Rep Bank:
    $3,550
    Here's the problem with daytrading as far as I can tell:

    It looks sooooooooo deceptively simple. Doesn't it? Check your charts, click your mouse, and you can potentially make a fortune from your kitchen table!

    The problem is that all the above is true - until it's not. I think getting lucky daytrading could set you up for a big fall because you'll have a false sense of confidence and then ultimately blow out. That seems to be the common story.

    The stats for daytrading shatter the illusion, because the majority of retail traders (normal people) eventually get killed. Why?

    Because there's somebody on the other side of that trade - and it's likely the institutionals and real pros that have so much more technology and research teams with MBA's and millions of dollars invested in networks and infrastructure, and they have insights that you don't. That's who you're ultimately competing against.

    How do you think you'd do playing football this Sunday against an NFL team?

    Same thing.

    Instead of daytrading pennystocks, go over to MJ's option thread and study up. Read what ICK said about what he learned chatting with successful traders at a convention...

    Yes it's more involved and complex, but there's a good reason to learn about it:

    The concepts put TIME and MATH (remember how they interplay in MJ's book) in your favor (depending on your choices of underlying and market analysis) and you can learn to generate income by choosing where a stock/commodity/ETF is not likely to go and let the clock tick until the option expires and you collect your winnings. That's the best case scenario.

    The worst case is that you choose wrong and loose money, but I'd still rather bet multiple times with math and odds (an edge) on my side!

    Is it guaranteed? Definitely not - but selling options at least gives you a fighting chance by putting probabilities in your favor. Think about it.

    I was on the daytrading fence for a loooong time too. I had been learning about trading stocks and commodities, and read about the Turtles and Market Wizards and read Mark Douglas's stuff and lots of other things. I love all of it by the way....

    After getting through the excitement of the possibility of killing it as a daytrader (ha!) I never really felt like it was going to be anything more than a crapshoot. Might as well just go to Vegas and drink for free while gambling...

    Something in my gut just didn't feel right about it. Even with a good system that allows many small losses and looks for a few big wins.

    Either way I hope you find a style that works, and you make bucks.

    Just my .02
     
  14. Nathan Monroe
    Offline

    Nathan Monroe Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    27
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Rep Bank:
    $200
    In my opinion: It is difficult for most to take large enough positions to make a difference. When I was doing it I would throw, say, $2000 at a volatile stock at market close. It opens high, and I sell for a nice 15% gain just after market open (I guessed correctly! Or should I say gambled?). I made $300. Then there is brokerage commissions, and taxes imposed on these short term gains. I probably walked away with $175 in pocket.

    Also, if I recall correctly, you FDIC regulations say you need to have more than $25k in an account to do more than three trades in one day. (Day trading) If you exceed that they can impose certain sanctions on your accounts for a period of time. Also, after backing out of a position it can take up to 3 days before your funds are available for use again (I forget the term for this)

    While I ended ahead when I stopped, I never saw the advantage to a novice gambling money into something just to make a few hundred here and there. I did however see the possibility of me getting my ass chewed for loosing $2000 :)
     
  15. G-Man
    Offline

    G-Man Legendary Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

    Messages:
    1,531
    Likes Received:
    8,014
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Rep Bank:
    $7,674
    I have a course. I'll just take all your money up front. My value added proposition: Look at all the time I'm saving you by not forcing you to sit through some course and white knuckle in front of a computer screen all day for the next 6 months, just to still be out that money.

    I'll even throw in beers and a trip to Top Golf. I can't get anyone to go with me, and it's your dime anyway.

    Sarcasm aside: I tried this stuff when I was a younger guy, and I think I would have been better off if someone would have just kicked me in the nuts and taken my 10 grand.
     
  16. Waspy
    Offline

    Waspy Float like a butterfly Read Millionaire Fastlane Speedway Pass

    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    1,985
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    U.K.
    Rep Bank:
    $6,937
    Sounds like you have a lot of free time on your hands.

    Perhaps it's time to enjoy the fruits of your labour.

    Spend your money on a Ferrari or a vacation or something, don't gamble it away...
     
    jasoncuellar123 likes this.
  17. Ryan Wolf
    Offline

    Ryan Wolf Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane Speedway Pass

    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    272
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Rep Bank:
    $1,658
    HFT can be very, very lucrative. Fractions of a cent add up quickly when you're doing massive volume. There is guy who made $377,000 in one day. Unfortunately, getting into HFT is a complex and expensive process from what I've read. The barrier to entry is, in my opinion, not worth it unless you happen to be a smart trading insider already with great connections.

    I play around in stocks just for the hell of it. I'm one of the lucky ones because I've only lost money on three stocks ever, and I've more than quadrupled my initial $300 investment. It has been nothing more than dumb luck for me. I buy and hold, though, not day trade.

    Best of luck.
     
  18. cmor16
    Offline

    cmor16 Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    1,248
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Rep Bank:
    $6,770
    Consistently profitable traders get that way by focusing on controlling their emotions, not mastering TA, learning systems or taking courses. Every new trader should start be focusing on their own psychology. Read the book Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas. It does a great job at helping you understand the psychology of a successful trader. And no, it will not make you rich quick. It is a grind.
     
  19. U2ForNow
    Offline

    U2ForNow New Contributor FASTLANE INSIDER

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    19
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2017
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Peoria, AZ
    Rep Bank:
    $173
    I have day traded since 92. It's tough and very few make it. I started out losing 30k. That hurts. I'm also the type that doesn't like to lose so I found a mentor. I ended up prop trading for a while and most of my experience was learned though Pristine. They have since been bought by T3. My best advice for you is to get with a big firm and prop trade. Discipline is something that is difficult. You will learn things about yourself that you never knew.

    Forget about HFTs. That's just an excuse for being a poor trader. You can make a great living trading, but expect to pay your dues. You don't become a trader on Monday and withdraw millions on Friday. It took me about 3 years to get to break even.
     
  20. Datingafter35
    Offline

    Datingafter35 New Contributor

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    15
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Rep Bank:
    $109
    I can teach you how to beat inflation (around 4%) and the pathetic returns on your savings (0.03%) that is doing nothing in the bank.

    Using nothing more a smartphone and price behavior.

    What I can't teach you is making more than $5 a day. lol.
     
  21. CommonCents
    Offline

    CommonCents Silver Contributor Speedway Pass

    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    764
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Location:
    MN
    Rep Bank:
    $2,419
    I worked with Robert Prechter right outta college. Cold called John Murphy trying to sell him Elliott Wave Technical Analysis advisory. Oooops. I was calling the Chartered Market Technicians list. haha. It's like selling ice to eskimos.


     
    GoodluckChuck likes this.
  22. Twopro
    Offline

    Twopro Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    64
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    Rep Bank:
    $977
    I know there's a lot of hate or at least caution on here about crypto currencies such as bitcoin, but if you want to day trade I would suggest look into "alt coins". Markets move like crazy and there's tons of money to be made. The biggest money maker for me has been buy and hold though. For instance I bought into an ICO of a coin called NEM about 2 years ago for .075 bitcoin which was roughly $60 at the time for 2.25 mil coins. It is currently worth $119k, yes you read that right. Still holding because there is still a lot more potential in my eyes.

    If you do decide to day trade though, it can be good money too but a lot more risk than buying a solid coin with good development/marketing plans and holding longer term (FYI long term in crypto coins is a few months to a couple of years, it moves ridiculously fast). I was day trading 20% of my NEM coins the past few weeks and have profited about 3-4 bitcoin (current price of bitcoin is $1430-$1480)
     
  23. GoodluckChuck
    Offline

    GoodluckChuck Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    377
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my house
    Rep Bank:
    $1,752
    One of those moments when you wish you bought $600 worth huh. lol Congrats.

    A profit is not made until the sale!
     
  24. Twopro
    Offline

    Twopro Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    64
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    Rep Bank:
    $977
    You could only buy up to 2 shares at the time since they wanted to distribute it as much as possible, unfortunately I didn't know and only bought 1. But definitely kick myself every once in a while when I think back to the $3k or so I put into another coin I thought had good potential that has remained stagnant these past 2 years vs if I had bought $3k worth more of NEM and have over $1M right now. And of course you are right about the profit not made till the sale, maybe I'll update this once I do sell
     
    GoodluckChuck likes this.
  25. GoodluckChuck
    Offline

    GoodluckChuck Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    377
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my house
    Rep Bank:
    $1,752
    That's am amazing investment.. $60 to $119,000. Golly.....

    I had some friends in high school that started a computer store after graduation. They were testing liquid nitrogen cooled overclocking for intel when bit coins came out. If I remember correctly they had like 20 computers linked together "mining" bitcoins. They had a bunch of them... One of the guys, we'll call him Steve, was hard up for money so he sold his for $80,000. Back then we all thought that was amazing. Had he held onto them he would be a millionaire today.

    Everything is clear in hindsight. It's hard to make the right bets in real time. Part of the learning curve is that no matter how good you are at reading the markets, you will always lose some. The goal is winning slightly more than you lose.

    At the moment my portfolio says I'm pretty bad at picking stocks, but I haven't sold yet. Haha...
     

Share This Page