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Coach or no Coach?

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PureA

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So this topic has been on my mind.

The logic of:
- all superstars have coaches.
- anything you want to master as fast as possible, you would get a coach (someone who has personally been and achieved the outcome you desire.)
- There seems to be massive upside in a coach and very little downside? (They can 10x your thinking/profits/progress but how much damage can they really do?)

My hesitation comes because 90% of the time when I hear that a coach is highly recommended and a real game changer, it comes from a self serving bias.

Why do you/don’t you have a coach?

Throw your thoughts at me.

p.s. Any recommendations for a great coach whose been there and done it… welcome.
 

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Andy Black

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Any recommendations for a great coach whose been there and done it… welcome.
Been there and done what? Can you be more specific?


Sure, I've had athletics and kickboxing coaches. I've been to track days and got advanced riding training too.

Personally, I prefer to *not* have a business coach. When I've had business coaches for various things it's only held me back from doing things the way I wanted to. I prefer to follow my own nose.

I know that a few off-hand comments have thrown me off for *years* because I accepted them and didn't do things my own way. So that's a danger of getting someone else's input.

What if you already knew enough? What would you do?
 

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So this topic has been on my mind.

The logic of:
- all superstars have coaches.
- anything you want to master as fast as possible, you would get a coach (someone who has personally been and achieved the outcome you desire.)
- There seems to be massive upside in a coach and very little downside? (They can 10x your thinking/profits/progress but how much damage can they really do?)

My hesitation comes because 90% of the time when I hear that a coach is highly recommended and a real game changer, it comes from a self serving bias.

Why do you/don’t you have a coach?

Throw your thoughts at me.

p.s. Any recommendations for a great coach whose been there and done it… welcome.
It depends on what you want to accomplish. I am weak on sales/marketing, and have no idea how to source and hire employees, so I have an adviser with experience in these areas.

Don't get a coach just to get a coach. Recognize what you need to grow in, and find someone who is specialized in that area.
 

PapaGang

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If you are thinking there is very little downside, consider this article I came across not too long ago:


I'm not discouraging you in any way. I think great coaches can be life changing.
I would want to go into it eyes wide open.
 

Brewmacker

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So this topic has been on my mind.

The logic of:
- all superstars have coaches.
- anything you want to master as fast as possible, you would get a coach (someone who has personally been and achieved the outcome you desire.)
- There seems to be massive upside in a coach and very little downside? (They can 10x your thinking/profits/progress but how much damage can they really do?)

My hesitation comes because 90% of the time when I hear that a coach is highly recommended and a real game changer, it comes from a self serving bias.

Why do you/don’t you have a coach?

Throw your thoughts at me.

p.s. Any recommendations for a great coach whose been there and done it… welcome.
Do you really want a coach? For example:

I like coaches for personal improvement, to work on my behaviors, interpretations of people's behaviors, and how to act better in the world around me. Also to lose a belly when I get fat. In the end they usually have their method which you need to follow to guarantee results.

I like teachers to teach me stuff that i do not yet know.

I would love a mentor with a proven track record, who could review my execution processes and my approach to making a successful business and give solid pointers and feed back, without necessarily looking closely at my product itself.

And eventually maybe a board of directors or a VC/investor who can hold me accountable on the promises I made with my product to all the customers and staff when the business is really up, running and hopefully expanding ready too take over the world ;).

My point above is, learning from others come in many forms but deliver something completely different.

Can you really put trust in a business coach's success stories? (non-rhetorical open question btw)
If they have all this knowledge then why teach it? Why not apply it to something greater on their own? I'm not sure. Maybe it is simply a fastlaner simply hiring a sidewalkers to coach his methodologies.

I think it was Adam Sandler who said something like, "Those who can't do, teach. Those who cant teach, teach physical education". Cant really remember where it came from but it stuck with me since I was a kid.
 

Here

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I joined group coaching to keep me accountable. I'm a perfectionist and without the coach I kept going in circles trying to get everything just so.

Now I know I have the weekly meeting coming up and that I'll be asked to report on my progress. That keeps me moving even when I'm worried something isn't 100%.

Depends on your personality and what stage you're at. I wouldn't recommend my coach to most posters on this forum, but right now she's just what I need.
 

amp0193

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I just read the book "The Third Door" last night in one sitting.

Incredible story, and definitely learned how high-level people are super approachable if you just ask.

You want a coach/mentor/someone's 2 cents.... everyone is an email away, and lots of them are happy to help.

I'm going to be nailing down some advisors of my own over the next few months. The best that I can find.
 

Kid

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Not willing to get imposed their limits on myself.
 

JScott

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Most people I know who want a coach are motivated by not wanting to do the work. They (consciously or subconsciously) believe that by having a coach, the onus of their success is put onto someone else. And for them, having a coach isn't going to change anything...they'll eventually realize that they have to put in the hard work if they want to be successful, and they'll end up giving up, just like if they didn't have a coach.

You made the point that "All superstars have coaches," and that's a good point. But, remember, they're superstars because they have the work ethic to be better than everyone else in the world at their craft. My guess is that even without a coach, each of them would probably still be world-class at what they do.

So, the real question isn't "coach or no coach."

The real question is, "Do I have what it takes to be successful without a coach?"

A coach is a multiplier. If the answer is that question is yes, then a coach will probably multiply your success. And if the answer to that question is no, well, a coach is still a multiplier, but anything times zero is still zero.

This is why I generally recommend that people learn their business/trade/skill on their own, and only bring in a coach after they've proven they can succeed with the basics -- a coach might then be able to help them get to the next level.
 

Benedict

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I just read the book "The Third Door" last night in one sitting.

Incredible story, and definitely learned how high-level people are super approachable if you just ask.

You want a coach/mentor/someone's 2 cents.... everyone is an email away, and lots of them are happy to help.

I'm going to be nailing down some advisors of my own over the next few months. The best that I can find.
Sorry for Off-Topic: You read the whole book in one sitting? I am a slow reader but even the audio book on audible is 9h. Respect, Sir. Guess I need to improve my reading skills since it usually takes me doubled the time of the audio version to read it myself.
 

Andy Black

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An argument for coaching...

I remember going on a coaching course in about 1990 (to be trained as an athletics coach).

One of the top athletics coaches in the UK was there. I was shocked as I was only 19 and we were all training to be assistant club coaches.

This wise old coach asked us who needed coaching the most - the Olympic athletes or the school kids just joining the sport.

We all figured the Olympic athletes.

Nope. The coach told us they're able to coach themselves at this stage, or are smart enough to pick and choose which coach works for them best.

The youngsters just joining the sport needed the best coaches. One bad experience and they'll leave the athletics altogether, with the worst case scenario that they never come back to sports.

So yeah, I personally don't want a coach, and I'm able to tell if someone's coaching is for me or not. Beginners probably have different needs.
 

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amp0193

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Sorry for Off-Topic: You read the whole book in one sitting? I am a slow reader but even the audio book on audible is 9h. Respect, Sir. Guess I need to improve my reading skills since it usually takes me doubled the time of the audio version to read it myself.
It reads like a friend is just telling you this unbelievable sequence of crazy events.

Simple language, simple sentence structure, lots of dialogue and quotes.

You have to keep turning the page to see what happens next.

I think it took me 5 hours to read.


I read a lot. I don't have any tips for reading speed, but there are lots of people who hack it... just google.
 

JScott

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The youngsters just joining the sport needed the best coaches.
The problem in the entrepreneurial world is that there is a mismatch of expectations. We talk about "coaches" for beginners, but what beginners really need is a teacher. You can argue that they are the same thing, but from a tactical standpoint, they are very different.

As an analogy, most of the people I talk to who are looking for a coach want the equivalent of an MIT math professor, when in reality, what they need is someone to teach them how to count to 10.

If you're considering paying $10K or more for a coach, you should already know how to count to 10. And you can generally learn that in a much lower priced way, from people who are better at teaching the basic skills.

Again, just my $.02...
 

Andy Black

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The problem in the entrepreneurial world is that there is a mismatch of expectations. We talk about "coaches" for beginners, but what beginners really need is a teacher. You can argue that they are the same thing, but from a tactical standpoint, they are very different.

As an analogy, most of the people I talk to who are looking for a coach want the equivalent of an MIT math professor, when in reality, what they need is someone to teach them how to count to 10.

If you're considering paying $10K or more for a coach, you should already know how to count to 10. And you can generally learn that in a much lower priced way, from people who are better at teaching the basic skills.

Again, just my $.02...
Agreed. I think there's enough in this forum for free for beginning entrepreneurs to get going and keep going.
 

@momo

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Yes I think a coach would be good but it would have to be the right coach.

Someone who has done what you want to do.

Starting out, no, I don't think you need a coach but when you start to make money then you should find someone to take you to the next level.
 
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PureA

PureA

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Been there and done what? Can you be more specific?
Agreed, this comment was a lazy after thought... I guess I meant a general business coach, which by nature of the criteria seems effectiveness would be limited.

Most people I know who want a coach are motivated by not wanting to do the work. They (consciously or subconsciously) believe that by having a coach, the onus of their success is put onto someone else.
Interesting thought. Probably worth sitting on.
 

KenCorigliano

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So this topic has been on my mind.

The logic of:
- all superstars have coaches.
- anything you want to master as fast as possible, you would get a coach (someone who has personally been and achieved the outcome you desire.)
- There seems to be massive upside in a coach and very little downside? (They can 10x your thinking/profits/progress but how much damage can they really do?)

My hesitation comes because 90% of the time when I hear that a coach is highly recommended and a real game changer, it comes from a self serving bias.

Why do you/don’t you have a coach?

Throw your thoughts at me.

p.s. Any recommendations for a great coach whose been there and done it… welcome.
Pretty good topic choice, glad some folks reached out to ask for more info about your intention.

I have three coaches right now. The number changes based on a few factors like energy and costs. The greatest factor is focus. Not all coaches have to have done what you want to do. I think most of them haven't even been close. They're psychological specialists, who if they are really good, are masters of learning and immersing themselves into an art and science.

I've met a lot of tremendous coaches, including Tony Robbins, Bob Bowman, and a few of the secret weapon coaches of some of the greatest athletes. I also have experience with people who coach financial traders, attorneys, and government officials. I've twice been certified. Certifications are what people pay for to get credentials. At a certain level no one cares about certs. Bowman doesn't have any plans to get his ACSM cert, it would be a waste. If a coach is coming at you with certs, I'd stay away, if you want to be top of the game. They should come recommended by someone at the top of the game.

Accountability.
Many coaches' value is that they keep you accountable and they do the analysis that you may not be willing or able to do, such as performance metrics. It's worth it if you need accountability and in-depth analysis. One of my coaches measures my visual-vestibular performance improvements by 1.3 thousands of a percent (.0013) or .05 degrees. Insane.

Pay.
You will need to pay them, they put in a lot of time, not seen, to coach you right. Go in for the long-haul and go full kimono. But be careful of a transactional relationship, this should be transformational, they should love their job and the main benefit should be to see you turn into a masterpiece. They should be an artist not an entrepreneur.

Exposure.
It's not uncommon for a coach to know more intimate details than your spouse. They have to get in your head so they can fix the idiosyncrasies, impulses, and challenges that are keeping you from getting to your goals.

They are not a friend, at first.
They are here to get results. Follow the plan then bring them in. You should end up as friends if you do it right. Find an exit point and stick to it. You can bring them in and bring them out multiple times, that's ok. Eventually what I like to do is turn the relationship into cashless, so I can add value to them while they add value to me.

I presume most folks on here are financially proficient, typically coaches aren't so you can offer financial Unscripting coaching as a good trade. No one usually turns down financial advice!

Ken
 

ZCP

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What is your desired outcome?

That question will shape what you do.

Now that you have half assed answered it in your own mind......

Stop and get serious. Get out a sheet of paper. Write out the SPECIFIC and DETAILED answer to that question. Then add the desired exact date you want it.

Then see if a coach is the missing piece..... for some of us it is. Others, no.

Work on asking better questions and getting more specific.

The Road Less Stupid has some good stuff for this.
 

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