Changes in Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes

[Vigilante]

The headline to my intro thread to the Fast Lane Forum in October of 2011 was "Who The Hell Would Live in Minnesota?" Life intersected with an ironic detour (to those who know me personally, you know exactly what I am talking about...) that delayed our inevitable escape from the frozen tundra. I'd like to believe this would have happened sooner, but we all have excuses for inaction. It's time to set sail.

I watched a friend from this forum pack his whole life, his whole family, and his whole future into a U-Haul trailer and head south. He arrived to his promised land after a few months (!) on his journey, and never looked back.

We're about to do the same thing. Waiting on the final milestone event that will happen by mid-May, in early June we will be wheels up and heading south.

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Come along for the ride in our figurative u-Haul. I will chronicle as much of the journey as I can for you, here on the pages of the Fast Lane Forum. This is part therapy for me and a place to have a mind release, and part wanting to leave a bread crumb trail for those who come behind us. We're about to take an epic journey, and inviting you to come along with a front row seat.

Destination : Gulf Coast of Florida
ETA : Mid June, 2015

 

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[GuestUser113]

The whole talk is awesome. But, to reiterate what you are saying. Start it @ 7:30
Kamal Ravikant

 

[Iwokeup]

subscribed!

 

[Vigilante]

So why Florida?

When I wrote the original introductory post, we were on the front side of a new and promising business, most of which has been chronicled in detail for the INSIDERS. We spend an above average amount of time at the beach, mostly in Hawaii, as a result of a business that is location and time independent.

I am working diligently on positioning that business for much bigger things. We're expanding the distribution of the business, and looking at potential distribution partnerships. Eventually, the business will be sold. I am beyond the harvesting phase that James Altucher describes in the cycles of starting up and selling a business, and am entering the phase where it is time to look at exit strategies.

Minnesota has a 10% personal income tax on high income earners. If you have a large exit event as a Minnesota resident running a Minnesota business, in addition to the Federal income tax, you are looking at writing a check to the State of just over 10% of the net income from any large transaction. Several states, Florida included, are personal income tax free. Florida derives most of it's income from sales tax, a model that hopefully the country will embrace in the form of a "fair tax" eliminating the personal income tax all together, but I digress.

States with no income tax:

• Alaska
• Florida
• Nevada
• South Dakota
• Texas
• Washington
• Wyoming

States with nearly no income tax:

• Tennessee
• New Hampshire

North Carolina also gets favorable mention as they are moving in the right direction, lowering State income tax and trending towards making the list of low income tax burdens. As MJ may point out, that doesn't mean it is any cheaper to live in these states. They still collect the money... it just comes in to them in a different form than personal income tax. However, depending on your income projections for the next few years, it may matter to you how your state takes your money.

For us, we're setting up residency in a state with a favorable personal income tax anticipating down the road it will make a difference to us personally on how much money we are able to put in the bank.

We're not moving to Florida strictly for tax purposes. We're moving to Florida for a change in latitude. We'll end up contributing a ton to the local economy where ever we end up. We will, however, be in better control of how those contributions flow. So... Florida it is. We considered Texas also, but decided that the beaches, the proximity to the Florida keys, the attractions, and having some family in the area made a difference for us.

 

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[Vigilante]

Our ability to pack up and leave started with the business structure. From the beginning, we integrated MJ's commandment of TIME (separating your time from your income) so that we weren't required to be present for the business to operate. There are currently a couple of fast lane forum members snorkeling the great barrier reef in Australia while their business assets continue generating income. That is the ultimate exercise of the commandment of time. It's what enables me to sit in Maui for long stretches of time, and what enables us to pack up and move... where ever.

The business we have, for the most part is automated and outsourced. We've also grown to this point without building a huge physical infrastructure. The reason I am looking for distribution partnerships is so that the business can continue to scale, but I want to use someone else's infrastructure to do it so that I don't need to own physical assets that require maintenance and physical presence.

You've heard me talk before about the fact that we use a Regus office. We have an office currently in Minneapolis, and several months ago I triggered an office lease termination, that expires at the end of this month. So, at the end of this month, we will have no physical office. We still have a small warehouse in Minneapolis, but that may or may not be eliminated all together. 80% of your business will generally come from 20% of your activities, and that is true for our business as well. If I can automate and outsource the 20% of the activity that generates the 80% of the income... we might just cut the rest loose all together. I want to eliminate the dependence on any location that requires manual intervention. So, if I can't get some of the items to be less "hands on" manual intensive, we might just have to cut those and move on. They're not big contributors to the big picture anyway. Never fall in love with your "stuff..." because it's just stuff.

So, we switched with Regus over to a virtual office. http://www.regus.com/products/virtual-offices/index.aspx

Technically, we become location independent. There are several hundred Regus offices in North America, and now we can walk in and use any of them. In addition, we still have an "office address" for all packages, mailing, phone answering, etc... we have a business presence. It will sit in Minneapolis for a while, until I transfer it to Florida. Regus virtual offices can be transferred anywhere. So, when ever we want, we flip a switch, turn it off in Minneapolis, and turn all of it to Florida (or where ever). No longer tethered to an office.

In addition, we're currently using RingCentral for our phone system. It's a virtual phone system, which sounds and feels like a big company phone system. It will follow us where ever we go, whether I am working from an office in Minneapolis, or a boat in the Florida keys. So, from a perception standpoint, we're set with Ring Central. When I decide to, we simply disconnect the Minneapolis phone numbers, and build new ones with Florida prefixes. Half hour to switch everything over, and we're in business with Florida phone numbers.

So, the office tether is cut, the warehouse space is minimal (and I have one person staying back in Minneapolis that can run the minimal operations left here) and the phone system is virtual, as is the office.

Separated from time, separated from location.

 

[Vigilante]

We don't have a place to live in Florida. We're going on an expedition there in mid April. I rented a house that sits directly on the Gulf Coast, so we can walk out from the beach house directly to the ocean. We'll use it as our headquarters for a couple of weeks while we try and find a place to stay.

I have bought a few family members one way plane tickets already for June, and the plan is I will drive down with my son and one of the vehicles, and pick the others up at the airport in mid-June. We're going to tow a medium sized u-Haul trailer, as most of the furniture and all but critical belongings will not be making this trip. We will also be transporting at least one other vehicle using a car transport system, and having that arrive a few days before we do so that we'll have (at least) two vehicles there when we get to town.

We're not going to buy a place in Florida, so we're looking for a decent rental property for the time being (like a 6 month to 1 year lease). A lot changes in a year, and we're not even sure what area we want to live in. We need sunshine, alcohol, and ocean air to help make longer range decisions like that. So, for now, we need a place to crash and use as a home base.

 

[Vigilante]

By the way, the money we have does give us a little edge. However, realize that being "paper millionaires" doesn't mean we have money falling out of our pockets. The journey we are heading on starts with the intention to change the scenery. Anyone can do what we are about to do, once you cast off the bow lines. It's not about money. We're not poor, so it certainly helps in our quest that we don't have to worry much about that, but frankly... if you are poor where you live you will start poor where you are going, so what difference does it make? In fact, you might find that the move is the best thing you could do for yourself. We're packing our shit in a U-Haul and heading off for parts unknown. We'll live there on the same money we're living on now. If I had zero money, I could do the same thing with a suitcase and a one way bus ticket. In some ways, it might be easier.

We all have many reasons why we're stuck where we are stuck. Many of us are imprisoned by chains of our own selection. There are very few reasons why you can't make a radical change in your circumstances, and in your surroundings. Fear is up towards the top of the list of chains that people need to cast off.

That's all for now. Probably won't have many if any updates until the scouting expedition in mid-April. Thanks for riding along with us.

 

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[Iwokeup]

Our ability to pack up and leave started with the business structure. From the beginning, we integrated MJ's commandment of TIME (separating your time from your income) so that we weren't required to be present for the business to operate. There are currently a couple of fast lane forum members snorkeling the great barrier reef in Australia while their business assets continue generating income. That is the ultimate exercise of the commandment of time. It's what enables me to sit in Maui for long stretches of time, and what enables us to pack up and move... where ever.

The business we have, for the most part is automated and outsourced. We've also grown to this point without building a huge physical infrastructure. The reason I am looking for distribution partnerships is so that the business can continue to scale, but I want to use someone else's infrastructure to do it so that I don't need to own physical assets that require maintenance and physical presence.

You've heard me talk before about the fact that we use a Regus office. We have an office currently in Minneapolis, and several months ago I triggered an office lease termination, that expires at the end of this month. So, at the end of this month, we will have no physical office. We still have a small warehouse in Minneapolis, but that may or may not be eliminated all together. 80% of your business will generally come from 20% of your activities, and that is true for our business as well. If I can automate and outsource the 20% of the activity that generates the 80% of the income... we might just cut the rest loose all together. I want to eliminate the dependence on any location that requires manual intervention. So, if I can't get some of the items to be less "hands on" manual intensive, we might just have to cut those and move on. They're not big contributors to the big picture anyway. Never fall in love with your "stuff..." because it's just stuff.

So, we switched with Regus over to a virtual office. http://www.regus.com/products/virtual-offices/index.aspx

Technically, we become location independent. There are several hundred Regus offices in North America, and now we can walk in and use any of them. In addition, we still have an "office address" for all packages, mailing, phone answering, etc... we have a business presence. It will sit in Minneapolis for a while, until I transfer it to Florida. Regus virtual offices can be transferred anywhere. So, when ever we want, we flip a switch, turn it off in Minneapolis, and turn all of it to Florida (or where ever). No longer tethered to an office.

In addition, we're currently using RingCentral for our phone system. It's a virtual phone system, which sounds and feels like a big company phone system. It will follow us where ever we go, whether I am working from an office in Minneapolis, or a boat in the Florida keys. So, from a perception standpoint, we're set with Ring Central. When I decide to, we simply disconnect the Minneapolis phone numbers, and build new ones with Florida prefixes. Half hour to switch everything over, and we're in business with Florida phone numbers.

So, the office tether is cut, the warehouse space is minimal (and I have one person staying back in Minneapolis that can run the minimal operations left here) and the phone system is virtual, as is the office.

Separated from time, separated from location.

This post alone is worth real money. Thank you!

 

[ZCP]

@Vigilante hit me up on your way through ATL and I'll buy you a nice meal! Proud of you!

 

[Vigilante]

So we are on the eve of the scouting trip. We're leaving in the morning and heading south with a bag full of flip flops, swimsuits, and hope.

Life is generally what you make it. We're a sum total of the choices that we make, both large and small along the way.

We're looking forward to some time in the sand, hopefully finding a place that we'd like to hang out in for a while, and a recalibration.

It's somewhat surreal to put things into proverbial mothballs here, as so much of life happened where you were from.

In some ways, it is easier when a company moves you for a job, like when we packed up and moved to Arkansas. It's easier because it's less voluntary, and it's easier because it's financed generally by someone else. Less risk.

A friend that recently moved his family half way across the country had no regrets, other than the distance that it put in-between him and his first grandchild.

The challenge. The newness. Exploring. The weather. The beach. The economy. The breaking of monotony. Living what you preach. Freedom. Lifestyle. Health. Excitement. Unknown. Stretching. Becoming.

All reasons to take the step.

 

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[AllenCrawley]

The challenge. The newness. Exploring. The weather. The beach. The economy. The breaking of monotony. Living what you preach. Freedom. Lifestyle. Health. Excitement. Unknown. Stretching. Becoming.

Man, am I excited for you and the family! I can't wait to see how this affects your daily productivity and growth of the business. I'd bet it will be huge!

 

[Bila]

You are giving me a push with this thread @Vigilante
Been looking to move ( have no idea where yet ) for the past year
Definitely gonna check the thread regularely

 

[Vigilante]

We talked about it for too long. We let too many sunsets slip past.

 

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[Weaponize]

The whole talk is awesome. But, to reiterate what you are saying. Start it @ 7:30
Kamal Ravikant

Super awesome talk, thanks for sharing! So many good points in it but to share some notes on a key part:

"I'll tell you something interesting. At the beginning I used to motive myself and everybody about how we were going to transform an industry, by the end i was motiving myself and my team by how much money we were going to make. See the difference? Can you see that I would make different choices as the CEO? I would choose different partners. Can you guess what happened? Right. The thing blew up. It blew up and it was messy. It blew up horribly. I lost everything. I was in debt. I lost my friends money, I had family invested in it and I lost all of their money and because my ego was attached to it, I blew up with it. I got insanely sick. My relationships fell apart. I was bed ridden. "

@Vigilante -- Looking forward to following your progress!

 

[Mrs. BRKb]

You sound so happy!

 

[Vigilante]

You sound so happy!

For those of you who listen(ed) to the podcast, Rachel's wedding is in late May (or we'd probably be gone already.)

There's something liberating about shutting a door behind you, driving south and not stopping until you see the ocean.

 

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[Iwokeup]

For those of you who listen(ed) to the podcast, Rachel's wedding is in late May (or we'd probably be gone already.)

There's something liberating about shutting a door behind you, driving south and not stopping until you see the ocean.

Yep!! I've done that a couple of times in the past, and the Wife and I cannot WAIT to do it again. Shooting for 18 months from the Meetup

 

[evlttwin]

The only thing I would be concerned with is hurricanes and humidity..

And all the crazy people.

http://www.reddit.com/r/floridaman

 

[Jamie T]

Congrats on the move!

I packed up and moved to the Gulf Coast last September. Coming from upstate NY (it snowed 119.1 inches this past winter) was a major change in lifestyle.

You and your family will love it down here.

 

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[Vigilante]

Congrats on the move!

I packed up and moved to the Gulf Coast last September. Coming from upstate NY (it snowed 119.1 inches this past winter) was a major change in lifestyle.

You and your family will love it down here.

Planning to check this out some time over the next week.
http://www.sugarsandfestival.com/

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Dave, you succeeded in the harshest of conditions. I couldn't. I wonder what kinds of wonders the move will do for you and your family. I'd imagine being able to hit the ocean at moment's whim has got to be incredibly motivating to enhance what you've already done.

 

[Vigilante]

@Jamie T i'm seeing news stories about a lot of stingrays on Clearwater Beach

 

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[Mattie]

Hope you have the time of your life.

 

[Get Right]

Welcome Vig, from another Gulf Coaster.

 

[TTG SS]

For those with location independent businesses, which state are they registered in? How does that make a difference in terms of taxation?

Is your business registered in MN? Are their any serious difficulties with moving the entity to FL?

My goal is to go back and forth between FL and NY. NY has pretty strict policies when it comes to trying to avoid income tax, even if you have your primary residence in FL. If you spend more than 180 days in NY you're subject to their income taxes.

NY is horrible, if you make any decent amount of money you're going to pay 48.5% of it to state and federal. 8.82% makes a large difference!!

 

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[Jamie T]

@Jamie T i'm seeing news stories about a lot of stingrays on Clearwater Beach

Make sure you do the stingray shuffle!

If you haven't already, check out some of the local news stations on TV. You'll see some ridiculous stuff that you'd never find up north or anywhere other than Florida haha (for the record, my TV is rarely on)

 

[Rawr]

I just paid nothing to florida in my taxes.... cue up the end of that Ferriss clip

 

[Vigilante]

Quick update.

I am writing this from my temporary office (aka a lanai overlooking the Gulf of Mexico). It's 2PM in Florida, and in my absence the company has already surpassed last year's sales (comparative days) with half the day to go. It looks like we will double last years sales today. Not bad for a Wednesday with an absentee owner.

Meanwhile, back at the office, they're shipping the largest wholesale order we have had year to date to a new customer, and they also launched a new sku today complete with a press release, some product video support, and a simultaneous Amazon launch. So, while that is not technically passive, it's passive for me today. The machine keeps on turning.

We spent the day driving around looking at everything from trailers to mansions. There's a huge dichotomy between the beach life, and the city life near the beach. We're likely to look inland, but then eventually have a cheaper escape to the beach (either through rental or a small condo or something). The entire gulf coast is littered with places, and they really hit most all income brackets.

We drove around BelleAir, Florida (I didn't even know that existed) but certainly at least parts of it would rival Bel Air, CA.

I'm torn. We need to put a more hard core press on finding a place to rent, but at the same time... I am super close to Tampa Bay Downs. What to do....

We spent some time looking in the SoHo area of Tampa. Flats, brownstone buildings, etc... but I think we need more space.

I haven't done shit for work over the last few days. One of these days, I need to get over to one of the Regus offices here in Tampa and at least spend some time cranking. As great as being able to work from anywhere is, having a bottle of Gray Goose holding hands with a bottle of Cabo Wabo on the counter and the waves crashing in the background isn't necessarily distraction free.

The good news is I have some major work to do for a client in town here, and in so doing a lot of the expenses from the trip are a write off, not to mention our pending business relocation to this area. My advice to you is save every single receipt, give it to your CPA, and let them figure out what a legitimate business expense is. Chances are, the Cabo Wabo is on me, not the taxpayers.

On the to do list... charter a boat, go see my family south of here, find a few awesome restaurants. And oh shit... find a house to move to.

 

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[Vigilante]

So I stopped by Regus today to get some work done, and ended up leasing an office.

 

[Vigilante]

It's Friday afternoon. It has been interesting to watch the weekend warriors this afternoon start to migrate towards the beach. They've worked all week to get to the weekend, and the weekend is finally here. There's triple the average beach chairs and tents up now as the weekend rolls in. They can crack a beer, dip their toes in the surf, and forget about their 9 to 5 for a few days. Life moves in slow motion at the beach. Monday is a world away.