Can You Escape the Giants in an Online Business?

[MTF]

Virtually every online business model I analyzed recently relies to a large extent on one of the giants: Google, Amazon, Facebook, or Apple. It seems like with each year it's getting harder and harder not to base your online business on one of the big companies. Just to give a few examples:

• self-publishing - Amazon controls almost the entire market and people are unwilling to buy books if they're not Kindle books. Consequently, as an author your fate is mostly in the hands of Amazon (particularly in fiction). Whatever changes they make to their platform can ruin your business (been there, done that).
• content marketing (in various ways) - you're dependent on Google (when you want to rely on SEO or YouTube traffic), social media sites, or if you use paid advertising, it's most likely ban-happy Facebook. As for monetization, it mostly comes down to Google (AdSense) or Amazon (Associates).
• mobile apps - Google or Apple (good luck selling your app if they don't like it).
• most product-based businesses - Amazon, who's happy to steal your business if they discover it's profitable.
• podcasts - Apple (good luck growing your podcast if it's banned on iTunes).

This is also visible in other industries such as music where payments from music streaming services like Spotify and Apple Music made up 75% of all US music revenues in 2018.

Let's say I want to start a new online business and can afford to spend some money to promote it. What do I do? I set up a Facebook account to promote it and bam, I'm banned like that for no reason (been there, done that) with no way to get my account back. I choose to advertise on AdWords instead, but with the crazy high CPCs it's extremely unlikely to ever turn a profit. Then maybe SEO? Well, Google doesn't like new websites so it will sandbox you and then a new algorithm update can screw your business overnight even if it's completely legitimate (like Examine.com). Maybe social media? No luck—there was a new update that limited your reach to a fraction of your followers and you need to pay just to deliver new posts to them (and prepare to pay double if you want them to leave the platform and visit your site).

Wherever you turn, there's a gatekeeper who has no issues banning you overnight or changing the way it operates in such a way that your business can be badly hit overnight.

I'm beginning to think that with an online business it's now very hard not to violate the commandment of control. Of course, you can try to diversify yourself, but in many cases there are only two viable options at most and both rely on the giant companies who don't give a damn about you. The smaller platforms disappear or are consumed by the giants and there's more and more power (and less and less interest in an individual) in the hands of the big companies.

Any thoughts? Solutions? Personal experiences? Is it time to move on to offline businesses or do you think they're affected by this problem in the same way? Are there any business models where you can still feel relatively safe with your revenue coming in more equal percentages from many different sources?

 

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[BizyDad]

Yes, you can escape these giants. I just don't know why you'd want to.

But you are on a forum that people find because of a book(s). Granted, I don't know the stats of the forum, so maybe this is a bad example based on ignorance. I'll give you another one.

I know a guy who manufactured a product so in demand that all he had to do (after manufacturing it) was build a site and post 1 message in the right sub reddit. He sold out inventory in 3 weeks. First month revenue $15k. The community he caters to just told their friends. It's been a year, and he still does no advertising and his revenue steadily grows. I haven't talked to him in a while, but I know in July he had a $35k month.

Find a need. Fill it. And be smart about how you get the word out.

Yes, it is possible...

 

[YoungPadawan]

You can escape the clutches of those companies by buying media the old fashioned way: direct mail. Buy lists from SRDS or any other list service, and do mass mailings to aquire the customers email or just sell to them direct through the mail.

You can't get banned from direct mail.

 

[James Klymus]

The thing that all of the big businesses have is data. They control the data and no one can take it from them.

The small players, what you are talking about in the post, are the guys who base their data on other peoples platforms. Youtube - your subscribers and videos. Facebook - your lookalike audiences.

These platforms also, obviously, provide reach, which if taken away can cripple your business literally over night.

This is what happens when you build a foundation on sand.

So what should you do? In my opinion, Collect data like the big guys.

Get the emails and or phone numbers from your potential clients and customers. Offer them free value in exchange for an email/number.

You'll have to collect the data, for the most part, from the big companies like facebook and google by advertising on their platforms, but the whole point is to gather data to build your own platform to communicate with your customers, not build your platform ON someone else's platform.

For example, I have seen a few youtubers start creating their own sites and communities where their fans can go and interact. If you have your own website completely separate from youtube, you're pretty much immune from whatever is going on on that platform.

The smart ones also sell merchandise and products on their own stores and collect emails (as opposed to teespring or something like that, where you don't have access to your customers info)

But they leverage another platform to build their own.

YES YES, I understand that you can get banned from these platforms, but I've been advertising on Facebook since 2015 and the only time I've ever had accounts permanently banned, was from breaking their rules.

These platforms are for the smart people who leverage them, NOT just build an audience on them and do nothing with it.

Edit: A good example of this that I just thought of, is this forum. MJ could have made an entrepreneur facebook group in theory (I realize the forum is older than FB groups). MJ has his own platform that he controls. Sure the SEO helps, but he has a platform that could be isolated and still do fine, because he has a lot of data.

 

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[Andy Black]

Virtually every online business model I analyzed recently relies to a large extent on one of the giants: Google, Amazon, Facebook, or Apple. It seems like with each year it's getting harder and harder not to base your online business on one of the big companies. Just to give a few examples:

• self-publishing - Amazon controls almost the entire market and people are unwilling to buy books if they're not Kindle books. Consequently, as an author your fate is mostly in the hands of Amazon (particularly in fiction). Whatever changes they make to their platform can ruin your business (been there, done that).
• content marketing (in various ways) - you're dependent on Google (when you want to rely on SEO or YouTube traffic), social media sites, or if you use paid advertising, it's most likely ban-happy Facebook. As for monetization, it mostly comes down to Google (AdSense) or Amazon (Associates).
• mobile apps - Google or Apple (good luck selling your app if they don't like it).
• most product-based businesses - Amazon, who's happy to steal your business if they discover it's profitable.
• podcasts - Apple (good luck growing your podcast if it's banned on iTunes).

This is also visible in other industries such as music where payments from music streaming services like Spotify and Apple Music made up 75% of all US music revenues in 2018.

Let's say I want to start a new online business and can afford to spend some money to promote it. What do I do? I set up a Facebook account to promote it and bam, I'm banned like that for no reason (been there, done that) with no way to get my account back. I choose to advertise on AdWords instead, but with the crazy high CPCs it's extremely unlikely to ever turn a profit. Then maybe SEO? Well, Google doesn't like new websites so it will sandbox you and then a new algorithm update can screw your business overnight even if it's completely legitimate (like Examine.com). Maybe social media? No luck—there was a new update that limited your reach to a fraction of your followers and you need to pay just to deliver new posts to them (and prepare to pay double if you want them to leave the platform and visit your site).

Wherever you turn, there's a gatekeeper who has no issues banning you overnight or changing the way it operates in such a way that your business can be badly hit overnight.

I'm beginning to think that with an online business it's now very hard not to violate the commandment of control. Of course, you can try to diversify yourself, but in many cases there are only two viable options at most and both rely on the giant companies who don't give a damn about you. The smaller platforms disappear or are consumed by the giants and there's more and more power (and less and less interest in an individual) in the hands of the big companies.

Any thoughts? Solutions? Personal experiences? Is it time to move on to offline businesses or do you think they're affected by this problem in the same way? Are there any business models where you can still feel relatively safe with your revenue coming in more equal percentages from many different sources?

I think it’s great those big businesses have gathered people who’d buy our products into a few watering holes, and provided tools to access them.

Use those watering holes to get first contact, and sale? Grow with Repeat Business & Referrals?

 

[johnp]

With the company that I work for over 66% of our traffic comes from Google. 75% of new revenue comes from Google. We diversify our marketing and invest into a ton of areas outside of Google. But we can't escape it haha.

If Google decided to ban us, then we'd be in serious trouble from an acquisition prospective. But okay from the revenue side because we deal with subscriptions with low churn.

I think about this a lot. I don't have any solutions outside of building a really good customer base with a strong backend. That's why I like subscription businesses - assuming churn isn't bad.

 

[biophase]

You can still use Facebook, start a page or group, get people to share for you. Hire influencers on IG and YouTube. You have to use these channels, just find another way.

My FB account is banned from ads, but it’s still one of my largest channels.

Another business, I can’t do PPC on FB or google or sell on Amazon so I use FB groups mainly.

Find another way, but don’t avoid those channels.

 

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[MTF]

Yup, I believe they should be still affected.

Offline businesses like restaurants, services and even property still rely on social media for marketing- or ratings review.

Even in my home country, the ol' mom and pop businesses are starting to latch onto Grabfood, Grabpay or some other payment/affiliate scheme that has something to do with 'the giants'.

I think someone here said that 'online is just a medium'.

That's a good point although I think that local businesses have the advantage of having less competition and more chances at nurturing the clients they already have (I feel like it's now much harder in the purely online world; just compare your loyalty to a great local restaurant that you patronize each week vs your loyalty to, say, a hosting company).

 

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

The problem for me is that it's getting more and more difficult to get first contact through these sites. People are ignoring ads more and more often (can't blame them), CPCs are getting through the roof, the platforms are getting ever more strict with their policies.

Yes, people generally have become better at ignoring ads on social media, but I'll remind you that 97% of Google's revenue comes from Search Ads...

...with almost 200 Million clicks on these ads DAILY...and that's a 21% INCREASE from 2012 when you would think people would've been less advertising savvy.

Personally I click on ads all the time...when they're relevant to me. It's just faster than having to dig through organic search. I'd reckon a lot of people feel the same. It doesn't cost me anything as a buyer to click on ads.

CPCs are more expensive but that just requires a strategy change. CPC costs don't mean much when you have a high LTV of your customer. Most people are still trying to get profitable on the first click, not realizing that that customer will spend 500% more over the next year...and the year after that.

Then it's like pouring gas on your fire while the competition is still trying to light the pilot.

I think mainly it comes down to who controls the TRANSACTION. Is money changing hands on your website or on Amazon? And how can we move it to the former?

 

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[Here]

Virtually every online business model I analyzed recently relies to a large extent on one of the giants: Google, Amazon, Facebook, or Apple. It seems like with each year it's getting harder and harder not to base your online business on one of the big companies. Just to give a few examples:

• self-publishing - Amazon controls almost the entire market and people are unwilling to buy books if they're not Kindle books. Consequently, as an author your fate is mostly in the hands of Amazon (particularly in fiction). Whatever changes they make to their platform can ruin your business (been there, done that).
• content marketing (in various ways) - you're dependent on Google (when you want to rely on SEO or YouTube traffic), social media sites, or if you use paid advertising, it's most likely ban-happy Facebook. As for monetization, it mostly comes down to Google (AdSense) or Amazon (Associates).
• mobile apps - Google or Apple (good luck selling your app if they don't like it).
• most product-based businesses - Amazon, who's happy to steal your business if they discover it's profitable.
• podcasts - Apple (good luck growing your podcast if it's banned on iTunes).

This is also visible in other industries such as music where payments from music streaming services like Spotify and Apple Music made up 75% of all US music revenues in 2018.

Let's say I want to start a new online business and can afford to spend some money to promote it. What do I do? I set up a Facebook account to promote it and bam, I'm banned like that for no reason (been there, done that) with no way to get my account back. I choose to advertise on AdWords instead, but with the crazy high CPCs it's extremely unlikely to ever turn a profit. Then maybe SEO? Well, Google doesn't like new websites so it will sandbox you and then a new algorithm update can screw your business overnight even if it's completely legitimate (like Examine.com). Maybe social media? No luck—there was a new update that limited your reach to a fraction of your followers and you need to pay just to deliver new posts to them (and prepare to pay double if you want them to leave the platform and visit your site).

Wherever you turn, there's a gatekeeper who has no issues banning you overnight or changing the way it operates in such a way that your business can be badly hit overnight.

I'm beginning to think that with an online business it's now very hard not to violate the commandment of control. Of course, you can try to diversify yourself, but in many cases there are only two viable options at most and both rely on the giant companies who don't give a damn about you. The smaller platforms disappear or are consumed by the giants and there's more and more power (and less and less interest in an individual) in the hands of the big companies.

Any thoughts? Solutions? Personal experiences? Is it time to move on to offline businesses or do you think they're affected by this problem in the same way? Are there any business models where you can still feel relatively safe with your revenue coming in more equal percentages from many different sources?

Pinterest
Quora
Slack
Reddit
Tiktok maybe?

Depends on the field and where your people hang out.

Also if you use google plus facebook plus amazon, you’re already somewhat diversified.

 

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[Process]

Virtually every online business model I analyzed recently relies to a large extent on one of the giants: Google, Amazon, Facebook, or Apple. It seems like with each year it's getting harder and harder not to base your online business on one of the big companies. Just to give a few examples:

• self-publishing - Amazon controls almost the entire market and people are unwilling to buy books if they're not Kindle books. Consequently, as an author your fate is mostly in the hands of Amazon (particularly in fiction). Whatever changes they make to their platform can ruin your business (been there, done that).
• content marketing (in various ways) - you're dependent on Google (when you want to rely on SEO or YouTube traffic), social media sites, or if you use paid advertising, it's most likely ban-happy Facebook. As for monetization, it mostly comes down to Google (AdSense) or Amazon (Associates).
• mobile apps - Google or Apple (good luck selling your app if they don't like it).
• most product-based businesses - Amazon, who's happy to steal your business if they discover it's profitable.
• podcasts - Apple (good luck growing your podcast if it's banned on iTunes).

This is also visible in other industries such as music where payments from music streaming services like Spotify and Apple Music made up 75% of all US music revenues in 2018.

Let's say I want to start a new online business and can afford to spend some money to promote it. What do I do? I set up a Facebook account to promote it and bam, I'm banned like that for no reason (been there, done that) with no way to get my account back. I choose to advertise on AdWords instead, but with the crazy high CPCs it's extremely unlikely to ever turn a profit. Then maybe SEO? Well, Google doesn't like new websites so it will sandbox you and then a new algorithm update can screw your business overnight even if it's completely legitimate (like Examine.com). Maybe social media? No luck—there was a new update that limited your reach to a fraction of your followers and you need to pay just to deliver new posts to them (and prepare to pay double if you want them to leave the platform and visit your site).

Wherever you turn, there's a gatekeeper who has no issues banning you overnight or changing the way it operates in such a way that your business can be badly hit overnight.

I'm beginning to think that with an online business it's now very hard not to violate the commandment of control. Of course, you can try to diversify yourself, but in many cases there are only two viable options at most and both rely on the giant companies who don't give a damn about you. The smaller platforms disappear or are consumed by the giants and there's more and more power (and less and less interest in an individual) in the hands of the big companies.

Any thoughts? Solutions? Personal experiences? Is it time to move on to offline businesses or do you think they're affected by this problem in the same way? Are there any business models where you can still feel relatively safe with your revenue coming in more equal percentages from many different sources?

Everyone thought the phone book company was inescapable. Now those companies have been reduced to third rate overpriced web design agencies.

Kmart was once the gorilla in the room. Now barely its corpse remains.

Every giant company cannibalizes it’s profit base and self destructs. Or they become obsolete.

Success breeds arrogance and complacency which allows an upstart to sidestep them.

Yes, you can escape these giants. I just don't know why you'd want to.

But you are on a forum that people find because of a book(s). Granted, I don't know the stats of the forum, so maybe this is a bad example based on ignorance. I'll give you another one.

I know a guy who manufactured a product so in demand that all he had to do (after manufacturing it) was build a site and post 1 message in the right sub reddit. He sold out inventory in 3 weeks. First month revenue $15k. The community he caters to just told their friends. It's been a year, and he still does no advertising and his revenue steadily grows. I haven't talked to him in a while, but I know in July he had a $35k month.

Find a need. Fill it. And be smart about how you get the word out.

Yes, it is possible...

If you sell anything at all to le redditors you are probably skewing value. They are known as the most entitled whiny bunch on the internet.

You can escape the clutches of those companies by buying media the old fashioned way: direct mail. Buy lists from SDRS or any other list service, and do mass mailings to aquire the customers email or just sell to them direct through the mail.

You can't get banned from direct mail.

@458 makes his money through cold calling.

A great offer at the right time, with the right tone, while contacting many leads is the real key.

Any method that hits those criteria can work.

 

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[MTF]

Use those watering holes to get first contact, and sale? Grow with Repeat Business & Referrals?

The problem for me is that it's getting more and more difficult to get first contact through these sites. People are ignoring ads more and more often (can't blame them), CPCs are getting through the roof, the platforms are getting ever more strict with their policies.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

The first principles approach says that ultimately business is just being able to make something people want, have a message that makes them willing to buy it, have a medium to deliver that message, and a way to distribute the goods.

Sure those 4 make up a nice chunk of the economy, but not all of it. Hell, the fact that many people think the way that you do means that there is likely a golden opportunity to build up or create some delivery channel that people have never heard of, simply because nobody else is thinking of something new.

Depending on your offering, you could try "antiquated" ideas like direct mail, bulletins, leave flyers in restaurants, bars, & coffee shops; newspaper ads, or magazine ads. You could go to trade shows, join local business clubs like the chamber of commerce, the rotary club, or your local areas unique spinoffs of trade & entrepreneur clubs.

Plus people just like buying from someone they actually know.

 

[sparechange]

I lost a sale a few weeks ago to Amazon (most likely thousands), customer said they found the same product for $2 cheaper!

 

[GSF]

Any thoughts? Solutions? Personal experiences? Is it time to move on to offline businesses or do you think they're affected by this problem in the same way? Are there any business models where you can still feel relatively safe with your revenue coming in more equal percentages from many different sources?

Haven't read other replies, but an online model where you don't rely on a platform;

• Affiliate but not as everyone thinks it. Look at the business model of successful cos like stack social, they didn't pay google or facebook for traffic, they built a network of third party publishers and monetise their traffic instead. They act like an affiliate network. Random niche example. Find 10 blogs in (insert niche) with a combined monthly visitor rate of 1m visitors. Do a deal with each blog that you'll boost their monthly revenue by helping them monetise a section of their blog. Then go to related (insert niche) brands and tell them you have access to 1m monthly visitors in their niche and can help increase their sales, create a deal/ create an offer. Then promote that offer across the 10 blogs/ 1m visitors. Just a quick basic example. You're the middle man bringing it all together, everyone wins. You're not reliant on one platform, you're spread out over multiple traffic sources and multiple brand offers that you control. Could be any niche/ market. Only limit is your creativity. Theres successful online businesses using this model but its not so well known. Its more complicated/ requires more creativity than buying ads from facebook/ google that everyone else is doing, but this way you have more control, less risk and a more valuable business.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

Interesting article on how Google & Facebook ads aren't as effective as their reputation would have us believe.

The new dot com bubble is here: it’s called online advertising

In 2018 $273bn was spent on digital ads globally. We delve into the world of clicks, banners and keywords to find out if any of it is real. What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital advertising?

thecorrespondent.com

"Facebook ads are far less effective than we thought"

"Consider the following: if Amazon buys clicks from Facebook and Google, the advertising platforms’ algorithms will seek out Amazon clickers. And who is most likely to click on Amazon? Presumably Amazon’s regular customers. In that case the algorithms are generating clicks, but not necessarily extra clicks."

"Keep that in mind the next time you read one of those calamity stories about Google, Facebook or Cambridge Analytica. If people were easier to manipulate with images and videos they don’t really want to see, economists would have a much easier task. Realistically, advertising does something, but only a small something – and at any rate it does far less than most advertisers believe."

 

[TreyAllDay]

I know is the B2B field I rely on easy of use. I have large competitors but they're very intimidating to most customers and difficult to use.

 

[splok]

Wherever you turn, there's a gatekeeper who has no issues banning you overnight or changing the way it operates in such a way that your business can be badly hit overnight.

Any thoughts?

There are ways around each of those problem if you're willing to jump through enough hoops. (FB account banned? start another, pay an agency to do it, etc.) However, all of those problems become less of a problem the more you niche down and/or the farther upstream you can swim. If your target market is people on the Fastlane forum, then nothing you listed is a problem. If your target market is Fortune 500s or governments, you'll likely be doing all of the legwork anyway.

If Palantir were fully banned from the internet tomorrow, what would happen to their revenue?

 

[Dami-B]

These are basically channel sources for traffic and there are numerous traffic sources out there, don't let FB banning you stop you from exploring other options.

It's scary when I see people who's total life income is dependent on Facebook ads consulting and they end up getting banned, it's really depressing.

I had a similar issue recently which led to a breakthrough, about 30% of my income was coming from FB ads consulting and then I got banned with no explanation and lost a whole chunk of revenue.

Right there and then, I started working on a new solution that wouldn't be so risky.

Today, my main product is marketing analytics which I sell to companies on a subscription license. One client today for me is worth about 10X my FB ads consulting gig back then, more profitable, more control, less risk, less stressful and more exciting to sell in the market because of the response of potential buyers.

FB ban might just have been the best thing that happened to me this year.

 

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[Redwolf]

I lost a sale a few weeks ago to Amazon (most likely thousands), customer said they found the same product for $2 cheaper!

I'll spend even more to buy on Amazon because the delivery process is fast and hassle free.

More on topic, I use Mailjet to email my customer list - I made a couple of changes to my account and their automated filter flagged my account the other day even though I've been a customer for 7 years. I was trying to send out an email before Christmas to offload some inventory. Now, I'm sitting here waiting for support to unflag my account.

There's always going to be potential roadblocks, no matter what, unless you have your own server hosted in your own datacenter, then someone, somewhere can always flip a switch.

 

[Andy Black]

@Pinnacle, you're underestimating the convenience the big platforms offer.

Not even 1% of readers will buy a novel if it's not available on Amazon (or another big platform synced with their e-reader). It's just too inconvenient and most people don't even know they can send files to their Kindle. Non-fiction is a bit easier because some people do read them in PDFs.

Same with podcasts. It's too much work to download an MP3 if you can use iTunes.

If someone has information I want and I can’t buy it on Amazon then I’ve no hesitation buying it from their site. For what I do I would consider a book on Amazon to already be out of date.

 

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[ChickenHawk]

This is because your offer is not as good as Amazons offer so a $2 difference + a better offer = Amazon win. If your website portrayed a much better offer than Amazon then the $2 difference becomes irrelevant.

This sounds so logical, but in 99.9% of the cases, this simply isn't how it works in the real world. If you write a book that sells for $3.99, you've very limited in price-competition. But it's not even about price.

Even for authors who have a huge, eager fan-base, very few of those fans will buy books from the author's own Web site. And why? Mostly, it's because one-clicking from Amazon is seamless. In contrast, buying a book from an author Web site means that the reader has to input their credit card info and then go through the hassle of getting the book onto their Kindle (or whatever). And then, they have to worry that their credit card info isn't quite safe. It's a big hassle, at least compared to that seamless Amazon one-click.

Let's say I offer one of my best-selling books for 99 cents on my Web site. If it's for sale on Amazon for $3.99, my readers will STILL buy it from Amazon. And if it's NOT on Amazon? Those readers will simply skip my book entirely and choose something else to read.

Plus, if you sell off your own site, you lose the discoverability that Amazon offers. I have an impressive group of fans. But if I only sold my books to established fans, I'd never make enough to support my family. So "Get new fans," you say? Sure, I do that all the time. But 99.9% of the time, a new fan will not buy from an author's Web site, with the possible exception of how-to books and specialty information items. I once paid $100 for a book directly from the author, but that was because it was highly specialized and available nowhere else. In contrast, my romance novels are a low price commodity.

As we all know, to succeed in the Fastlane, you need to scale. With the vast majority of authors, this is done by selling in huge numbers, volume wise. There is no way on Earth I could replicate that volume on my own Web site, even if it is such a pretty thought.

 

[biophase]

Just to add another comment about this thread. I don’t know why you wouldn’t want these giants out there. You are probably too young to remember the internet without a search engine.

Back in those days you needed to know the URLs or happen upon a page through a link.

What would you do without these giants? You probably wouldn’t have a thriving business right now. Maybe you would be on CDbaby or Books a million. But after finding out they have 1% of the internet traffic you would wish there was a big online site that everyone went to to look for books!

Every business wants exposure and a distribution system. So unless part of your business is distribution you will need someone else.

 

[MTF]

@biophase

The problem isn't that they exist, the problem is how much control they have over everything and how arrogant they are with the rules they force others to follow while ignoring them themselves.

If certain industries are pretty much dominated by one company, it's very difficult to run a healthy business in them. Of course, nobody forces you to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very grateful that Amazon exists as it has changed my life. It just sucks that it's not really a reliable business partner. Then again, why wouldn't they make decisions that favor their business, even if at the expense of others?

The big lesson from this thread for me is to be more creative and look beyond the usual options.

 

[ZF Lee]

Is it time to move on to offline businesses or do you think they're affected by this problem in the same way?

Yup, I believe they should be still affected.

Offline businesses like restaurants, services and even property still rely on social media for marketing- or ratings review.

Even in my home country, the ol' mom and pop businesses are starting to latch onto Grabfood, Grabpay or some other payment/affiliate scheme that has something to do with 'the giants'.

I think someone here said that 'online is just a medium'.

 

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[MTF]

With the company that I work for over 66% of our traffic comes from Google. 75% of new revenue comes from Google.

That's exactly what worries me. You might be okay because you already have a client base but for a new business it can be super tough if Google bans them when they're just starting out.

We diversify our marketing and invest into a ton of areas outside of Google. But we can't escape it haha.

Same in self-publishing. You can try everything but Amazon will still provide 75% or more of your revenue, which is essentially like owning your business.

 

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[PizzaOnTheRoof]

Interesting article on how Google & Facebook ads aren't as effective as their reputation would have us believe.

The new dot com bubble is here: it’s called online advertising

In 2018 $273bn was spent on digital ads globally. We delve into the world of clicks, banners and keywords to find out if any of it is real. What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital advertising?

thecorrespondent.com

"Facebook ads are far less effective than we thought"

"Consider the following: if Amazon buys clicks from Facebook and Google, the advertising platforms’ algorithms will seek out Amazon clickers. And who is most likely to click on Amazon? Presumably Amazon’s regular customers. In that case the algorithms are generating clicks, but not necessarily extra clicks."

"Keep that in mind the next time you read one of those calamity stories about Google, Facebook or Cambridge Analytica. If people were easier to manipulate with images and videos they don’t really want to see, economists would have a much easier task. Realistically, advertising does something, but only a small something – and at any rate it does far less than most advertisers believe."

Still better than pure organic.

ALL advertising does a small something. At least with paid traffic you know if it’s profitable.

 

[100ToOne]

Have you tried advertising on FB from your existing fb account?

The problem I saw many people have with fb ads is advertising with new accounts. And apparently FB doesn't like that because it allows people to keep coming back with new accounts and advertising banned content.

I'm not accusing you, but was your experience with your personal account that let's say been there for a couple of years?

Their control of everything definitely has many drawbacks, but it's also an amazing platform to find tons of leads.

I remember selling imported gadgets on FB with extremely high results which I could of never done with anyother local platform.

 

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[luniac]

Its always a risk, i say play by the rules, be careful, and accumulate as much "F*ck U" money as possible just in case it all goes to hell.

 

[MTF]

Its always a risk, i say play by the rules, be careful, and accumulate as much "F*ck U" money as possible just in case it all goes to hell.

100%. That's one lesson I fortunately followed religiously before things in my business got bad due to the control issues.

 

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