Caffeine can kill your productivity!

[MJ DeMarco]

Bump for the old thread cuz I think it's time I quit.

 

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[jpn]

Last week I went from 5 - 8 cups a day to 0 caffeine.

What happened? I read a book. Why we sleep. It explains what sleep does for your body and brain. And how your lifestyle influences sleep and increases or reduces it's benefits.

After the first 2-3 chapters I had learned enough to not want to drink caffeine again. The rest of the book drives it home and explains other factors that can improve your life.

After cutting out caffeine and getting about 4 nights of good quality sleep I feel better than ever.

I've never felt more energised.

Cutting out caffeine has had a massive positive impact on my energy levels and clarity from. I'm less foggy during the day, and experience shallower dips in cognitive ability during the course of the day.

 

[biophase]

Don’t know where i read this but... it doesn’t make any sense that after you’ve slept the night that you would wake up tired. If you believe in being back in the caveman days... a human body should wake up refreshed and at its most alert state. So you shouldn’t need anything else to “wake you up”. But i totally understand that most people aren’t getting a full nights sleep. But if you are, you shouldn’t need it.

 

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[AgainstAllOdds]

Genuine Question: Why do you guys want to quit caffeine? Because you've abused it?

I'm with @kelvinfernandezm. If you "cycle" the caffeine, then its benefits far outweigh the costs.

I do 3 weeks on. 1 week off. I start at 100mg per day and go up to 200mg's per day. Then when I stop feeling the effects or just want to quit, I quit for a week or a minimum of 5 days to reset my tolerance.

Why? Because caffeine gives me a lot of benefits including:

• More calories burned
• Huge workout boost (my endurance doubles - I go from doing 5 muay thai rounds to 10; similar for lifting weights)
• Productivity: When I take it, I need to do something, and get in the zone easier
• It helps me sleep if I time it 12 hours before bedtime

I don't think caffeine is the problem. Maybe I'm wrong. Building tolerance seems to be the problem.

 

[PatrickP]

I once left a half drunk Red Bull can in a car for a day, when I came back the smell was so terrible I thought someone died. I drink it, but did you know Canada required Red Bull to take out 40 ingredients before importing, unlike the US version?

How is that possible, really?



Looks like that would leave the Canadian version at approx at NEGATIVE 25 ingredients.


Doesn't your BS meter go off when you hear or read something crazy like that?


Canadian version http://www.redbull.ca/cs/Satellite/en_CA/Products/Red-Bull-Energy-Drink-021242762475036


USA version http://www.redbullusa.com/cs/Satell...duct&pcs_cid=1242989299257&pcs_pvt=ingredient

 

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[JasonR]

Too much caffeine can kill your productivity. I have been addicted to those stupid blue, low carb monsters for a while, and I never get addicted to ANYTHING. I decided to quit, and have been slowly weening myself off caffeine. Today is my first day without caffeine, and I feel lazy and lethargic. It sucks...I am completely unproductive and I feel like a lazy a**hole.

So my solution is to either go the gas station and grab a monster, and then wait until the weekend to quit cold turkey. This way I can be lazy, feel lethargic without feeling TOO guilty. I can read the forums, read books, and chill by the lake without feeling too bad about it.

OR

I can NOT go get that can of monster and suffer through it today. I don't know what the right choice is, but I'm posting this so I can hold my self accountable for this goal: quit caffeine for 30 days. Starting today or Monday.

Can anyone relate?

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

MJ, if you would since you mentioned quitting, what benefit are you looking for?

A variety of things that I really don't want to go into, lets just say I've been consuming way too much caffeine, the equivalent to probably a dozen cups of coffee. I know it has effected me negatively on the cognitive front, including sleep.

The last two days I've had a raging withdrawal migraine.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Why do you guys want to quit caffeine? Because you've abused it?

For me, yes. Between the coffee and the workout drinks, I was doing about 300mg, maybe up to 500mg a day.

It got to the point where I couldn't sleep.

I've been off of it now for 2 weeks (cold turkey) and had a few days of withdrawals but I can report without a shadow of a doubt, I've been sleeping much better.

 

[JEdwards]

Your not going to make it..

 

[andviv]

Whenever you feel like you must have caffeine, simply go drink a huge glass of cold water.

 

[jon.M]

It's kinda easy to quit cold turkey once you're determined about it. Expect a few days of feeling like shit, sluggish and constantly walking around with a mild headache. But it'll get easier after those first few days.

This stuff is also about habits and associating certain situations with the consumption of coffee/energy drinks. For example, you might feel the need to pour yourself a warm cup of coffee when socializing with others, to down that sugarfree Monster when you hit an afternoon dip or whatever. I benefited from getting myself a caffeine free substitute for those moments.

 

[MTEE1985]

I’m paraphrasing here but it’s best to drink coffee between 12 PM - 5 PM.

The U.S. Army conducted a study and developed an algorithm for determing the optimal time to consume for individuals.

It is paraphrased here:
U.S. Army Figures Out What Time Drinking Coffee Is Most Effective

Full report published here: *warning* super dense read, I suggest having a fresh cup of coffee on hand!
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jsr.12711

My question for the forum is what kind of real world changes have you seen from cutting the caffeine?

MJ, if you would since you mentioned quitting, what benefit are you looking for?

Most research can go either way as far as benefits vs. drawbacks of coffee/caffeine so I’d love to hear some personal opinions and experiences.

 

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[AFMKelvin]

I must admit drinking coffee is the hardest addiction to kick for me. Maybe because caffeine is the most popular drug and it's available everywhere.

But you don't have to stop drinking coffee forever just cycle your intake. Drink coffee for a week then take a week off. If you don't cycle your caffeine intake you'll develop a tolarence for it. That's how MJ ends up drinking the equivalent of 12 cups of coffee a day because you need more of it to feel the same effects as before.

 

[lowtek]

You can pry the bitter little beans from my cold dead hands

 

[FreakyThomas]

I have experienced the exact opposite:

• Quitting coffee had no effect on how many calories i burn, but my weight was always fluctuacting between 76 and 79kg (167-174 lbs), now that i quit, it's always between 79-80kg (174-176lbs).
  I can't tell if it has something to do with my digestion (drank coffee before training and after meals).
  
  
• I drank coffee 1 hour prior to my workouts and it always seemed like an eternity before i got into the "groove" of working out. Now i just warm up (15min) and am ready to start off with heavier weights than before. It feels less taxing on my body.
  
  
• I can't say this for sure, because the time i was drinking coffee on mass was also the time i hadn't had any fixed working shedules. Could be 8am-5pm but could also be 8am-1pm and 6pm-2am on one day. I basically drank coffee to "stay awake" and get some stuff done.
  With a now fixed routine i experienced no difference in productivity.
  
  
• Always had massive problems getting into sleep when i drank coffee beyond 6pm. Since i stopped, i switch lights off between 10-10.30pm and am usually gone within 5-10minutes.

I think this depends a lot on personal circumstances and habits (how often, at what times).

The effects on sport performance have been demonstrated by serious studies but, for this to work, you need your cafeine level to RAISE before it. If you drink caffeine everyday and all day long it won't have any effect.

I think using it to "stay awake" is really a bad habit and you're totally right to stop it, especially if you would drink some beyond 2PM.

It's interesting to note that may be the way you felt is also linked, at least in some part, to your changing work schedules. This thing should be forbidden, it's really messing a lot with body clocks, quality of sleep, alertness etc.

 

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[Areding]

Do not drink coffee for several years. After I noticed for myself that I was addicted to coffee and its detrimental effect on the body, I gradually abandoned this drink.

 

[JasonR]

Well...took the plunge and got a monster. I immediately felt better (crazy!). I'm officially quitting Saturday Morning...for one month. If I feel better, I'll have caffeine only sparingly.

 

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[Eskil]

I hated coffee all my life and was a late bloomer to the caffeine craze. I only discovered these great energy drinks you guys have here in the US when I came back here two years ago. We have "energy drinks" in Norway too, but they don't work at all because government regulation on caffeinated drinks make them severely tame and pointless.

But now I'm pretty hooked on Wired, Full Throttle, Rockstar, NOS, and Monster. I do try to limit usage though because I don't wanna get addicted. So once a week I will treat myself to a can - and BOY do I get productive on those days!

The orange Wired, with its massive 344 (!) mg of caffeine has the strongest effect, but I also sometimes crash off of it in the evenings. After having tried many drinks now, I have narrowed it down to the two best cans that work for me: green Wired (B12 Rush), and the black Full Throttle. B12 also puts you in a really good mood, which is nice if you're having a down day.

I see no point in quitting caffeine. But I also see no point in going on it daily as there are many negative health effects on too much daily consumption.

 

[JAJT]

So the last few jobs I've had all had free coffee. Half-decent stuff to boot. I drank a TON of it. Like, almost a cup an hour for every hour I was there. Really fogged up memory, made it hard to concentrate, work was suffering, etc...

Then I would quit cold turkey. Like Whole Paradigm I was rewarded for this choice by a 4-5 day long terrible headache. Really opens your eyes to see exactly how addicted you were when you start going through withdraw symptoms...

Eventually I'd end up drinking it again a few weeks later or whatever - a glass a day or what have you. Without noticing I'd find myself with a coffee in hand almost constantly again. Damnation...

This last month I've had a very positive change - I have a SINGLE coffee in the morning and then drink water for the rest of the day. So far no crash and the jitters/scatter-brain are gone. I think this will be my modus operandi going forward.

 

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[JasonR]

And I am still addicted. lol

 

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[Chazmania]

I have been addicted to those stupid blue, low carb monsters for a while

Dude I can totally relate. I've been on and off those damn things for a while now myself. They seem so harmless and a good little kick when i'm tired but after drinking them regularly i definitely notice a crash kicking in. Talk later, I gotta go hit the convenience store lol.

 

[Danny Sullivan]

Yet there must be something too it.

I quit drinking alcohol when i was 19 (5 years in) cold turkey. Smoking at 21 (4 years in) cold turkey. Eating shitty stuff that doesn't belong into your body at 30 (probably 30 years in). I tried to quit coffee too since i was 30 (12-13 years in)... i haven't counted how many times i failed. I'm now 4 months in from my last cup of coffee and i think it sticks with me now. Never believed coffee would be the hardest to quit. I never had a knack for energy drinks, so i didn't replace coffee with them. I drink a lot of water and a cup of green tea every other day.

Kind of weird. Coffee - the drug no one is concious about. My parents drink about 7-10 cups each day. I think i'd rather not.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I read a book. Why we sleep.

Ohh, thanks for the recommendation, will check it out!

For those looking for a coffee replacement, I found Teeccino to be adequate as a replacement.

https://www.vitacost.com/teeccino-o...ee-alternative-caffeine-free?q=teccino&ta=tec

 

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[arfadugus]

Read Caffeine Blues if you need more info.

It can take 6 months to start feeling normal after quitting caffeine.

Been feeling with this shit for 7 years and now I've finally nailed it down. This is how I quit caffeine for good near painlessly.

1. After this tip you will never drink coffee again.
Buy a $25 milligram scale from Amazon. And 100 capsules of 200mg of pure caffeine powder.

This way you can start tapering slowly. Or at any rate that you want to. Depending on how much sleep you get, how you felt the previous day, stress factors, etc.

You also will dis-associate the feeling you get from caffeine from drinking a beverage. Think about it. You are mixing a drug with one of our primal urges. To eat and drink. No wonder it's so engrained into your brain. Start taking it like the drug that it is.

P.S. you will also save a ton of money doing it this way.

2. This tip will optimize your current caffeine intake to feel the best possible while tapering.
Take your caffeine at the same time a day. The same amount of times per day.

Your body has a daily rythm. Mostly everyone knows about circadian rythm. But what they don't know is that your body releases a Cascade of hormones that are adapted to your daily habits and routines. Suddenly changing the timing of a caffeine dose will trigger withdrawal symptoms like depression, lethargy, headaches, and more.

As a caveat, taper your latest dose first if possible. I recommend tapering no more than 5-10 mg of each dose that you have cheduled per day. 5mg on days that you aren't feeling it. And 10mg when you are feeling motivated. This will start to help you sleep better. Even a morning dose will effect your next night of sleep. So try to get you caffeine timing away from your sleep as soon as possible. Which brings us to tip #3.

3. This tip will help your body recover from years of damage that caffeine has done to your body. So that you can start to feel human again . Sleep, sleep, and more sleep.

I suggest you sleep whenever, however, and as often as possible. Take naps, sleep in, go to bed early. You have been taking caffeine for mainly one purpose and one purpose only. To ignore your body's natural signal that tells you that it needs to heal. And to repair the damage you are done. You are going to need to regain that time you lost snoozing. Don't worry though. Your body will thank you. And once you are caffeine free. You won't have to spend all of your time with your eyes shut. And you will be rejuvenated every morning in when you wake up.

Make it as easy as possible for your body to get a good night's rest. Don't consume, alcohol, stimulants, nicotine, over the counter medicine, most supplements, or anything else that effects your body's natural ability to run itself. Food and water. That's all you need.

Buy a Purple mattress if you can. (They offer financing) Upgrade your pillows, make your room as dark and noise free as possible at night. You want to be stone cold dead in the water asleep.

4. This tip will give you many small things to do that add up for big results. I call it the shotgun approach.

Meditate. Exercise. Drink only water, eat plenty of fruits and veggies. Donate money. Help someone in need. Make a list of goals. Get outdoors. Put your cellphone Down and disconnect. Add some pink Himalayan salt to your water to get electrolytes. Eliminate processed foods. Make sure you are getting enough fiber.

Quit porn and masturbation. Take cold showers. Listen to Jocko Podcast. Read books and learn shit. Learn to make money outside of having a job. Get your blood work done. You can order any blood test at discount labs. You can compare before and after caffeine. (You'll be surprised)

Read the book "caffeine Blues". There is a lot of bullshit in that book but the studies and overall premise is pretty sound. Read self help books. Read about nutrition. Lose some weight. Put on some muscle. Hang out with people. Connect deeper with others. Cuddle. Take care of a place to or a pet.

Sorry if I used bad grammar and what not. I kinda rushed through this. If you or anyone has any questions then private message me. I'd be happy to give references, studies, advice, resources, etc.

P.P.S. This habit is a bitch. I'm happy to support any way I can.

 

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[AgainstAllOdds]

I have experienced the exact opposite:

• Quitting coffee had no effect on how many calories i burn, but my weight was always fluctuacting between 76 and 79kg (167-174 lbs), now that i quit, it's always between 79-80kg (174-176lbs).
  I can't tell if it has something to do with my digestion (drank coffee before training and after meals).
  
  
• I drank coffee 1 hour prior to my workouts and it always seemed like an eternity before i got into the "groove" of working out. Now i just warm up (15min) and am ready to start off with heavier weights than before. It feels less taxing on my body.
  
  
• I can't say this for sure, because the time i was drinking coffee on mass was also the time i hadn't had any fixed working shedules. Could be 8am-5pm but could also be 8am-1pm and 6pm-2am on one day. I basically drank coffee to "stay awake" and get some stuff done.
  With a now fixed routine i experienced no difference in productivity.
  
  
• Always had massive problems getting into sleep when i drank coffee beyond 6pm. Since i stopped, i switch lights off between 10-10.30pm and am usually gone within 5-10minutes.

I think this depends a lot on personal circumstances and habits (how often, at what times).

Yeah, I think it depends on each person.

Personally, the way I look at it: Caffeine is linked to longevity (living longer). If it works for you, then keep taking it responsibly, otherwise do what works for you.

 

[stmorand]

Genuine Question: Why do you guys want to quit caffeine? Because you've abused it?

I'm with @kelvinfernandezm. If you "cycle" the caffeine, then its benefits far outweigh the costs.

I do 3 weeks on. 1 week off. I start at 100mg per day and go up to 200mg's per day. Then when I stop feeling the effects or just want to quit, I quit for a week or a minimum of 5 days to reset my tolerance.

Why? Because caffeine gives me a lot of benefits including:

• More calories burned
• Huge workout boost (my endurance doubles - I go from doing 5 muay thai rounds to 10; similar for lifting weights)
• Productivity: When I take it, I need to do something, and get in the zone easier
• It helps me sleep if I time it 12 hours before bedtime

I don't think caffeine is the problem. Maybe I'm wrong. Building tolerance seems to be the problem.

I quit caffeine for several reasons. Indeed, I definitely abused it (I was drinking at least 7 cups of coffee a day). But the main reason is that I noticed the more I was drinking coffee, the more I needed coffee to find energy. I just ended up being tired all the time.

When I stopped drinking coffee, I felt like a drug addict who stopped (though I can not really relate). During the 10 first days, I had every symptoms we can imagine and nothing could make the process easier and less painful. My body didn't really understand what was going on and tried to find caffeine when water should be enough. I never drank that much water before and my body was simply rejecting it.

Though this period of 10 days was really hard, I started to feel better soon and little by little getting more energy. Quickly enough, I gained the same energy as I could have after a shot of caffeine without the need of it.

For people more reasonable than I was before, scientists also talk about the weekend migraine, this migraine that comes only in the weekends. They explain it as a migraine that shows up to people who are only taking the coffee break at the office, with their colleagues. When the weekend arrives, they obviously have no more coffee breaks (or not at the same timing) and the body requests its daily dose ... If such a simple habit, with no excess, has such consequences, this is a sign of addiction.

Then, I am not sure caffeine helps in burning calories. Or let's say that I am sure it slows down digestion. Digestion is a process of about 3 hours. One issue with coffee is that if you take coffee between your meals, you may eat dinner without having finished the digestion of your lunch. When I stopped coffee, I lost 8kg without doing any diet at all.

Once again, I believe caffeine is an addiction, just like any others, including the addiction to alcohol, cigarets, sugar, salt, and so on... We are all addicted to something more or less harmful but like most addictions, we see the consequences often when it is too late for our body to fully recover.

The best is probably to be balanced, by alternating like you do for example. But I am only talking about my own experience and I am not health professional at all!

 

[FreakyThomas]

Did any of you quit drinking tea and noticed any positive effects? Tea generally doesn't have as much caffeine as coffee, but it still does contain it. My question is: are there any benefits of quitting tea or is the caffeine amount so low that it doesn't make a difference?

The cafeine amount is lower but usually one drinks more tea than coffee. Also you need to know that caffeine in tea is linked to other molecules hence is released more slowly but for a longer time. So I think there's even more effect on sleep if you tend to drink tea late in the day.
However it is very easy to eliminate cafeine from tea : just infuse your tea in hot water for 1min and throw this water. If you infuse your tea again by renewing the hot water, it will have slightly less taste, but will be cafeine free.

 

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[andyhaus44]

For me, yes. Between the coffee and the workout drinks, I was doing about 300mg, maybe up to 500mg a day.

I've been off of it now for 2 weeks (cold turkey) and had a few days of withdrawals but I can report without a shadow of a doubt, I've been sleeping much better.

Great job, MJ! I believe we started around the same day, and now am at day 40 with no coffee or caffeine and I feel great. Sleeping a lot better and my vertigo is less intense.

 

[craig1928]

Absolutely, but I enjoy coffee way too much to give it up, I'm a very drowsy person when I sit down to do work and I couldn't function properly for any length of time without it.

 

[The-J]

You'll be fine in a couple of days.