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Business Is Now Making 7 Figures - Taxes are killing me - Advice?

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kwes

New Contributor
Feb 18, 2012
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My Business is now profiting 7 figures, but I'm getting raped on the taxes. My business is an S-Corp and all the income flows down to my personal which puts me in the highest bracket. I don't mind paying some taxes, I just don't like paying 40% of my income (15% would be much more reasonable).

Any advice or what I can do to alleviate some of my tax burden?

What is the best entity for high profit businesses?
What do other 7 figure+ business do to offset some of their taxes?
Should I have the business purchase investments and things of value to lower the income (replacing the cash with investments)?

P.S. Before you tell me that I should be asking a professional (not a forum), I have spent a lot of money on "professional" accountants, attorneys, and even a tax strategist. I have yet to find one that really knows how to effectively reduce taxes at this level...so here I am...and hopefully someone here can help...
 
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GlobalWealth

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kwes,
I would be happy to chat with you offline, but this is not a viable conversation online. There are WAY too many variables to attempt to discuss online.

There are many issues here:
types of assets
source of income
location of business
nexus
employees
IP

There are ways to segregate assets to minimize tax burden, but we would need to discuss details.
 

kwes

New Contributor
Feb 18, 2012
12
12
37
I can tell you how to stop paying such high taxes.................. Stop making so much money:rofl:

There is some truth in what you say-figuring out how to lower reported income is one strategy.

It is also easy to be unmotivated to make more money when you know you have to give more than half of it away.
And just "not making so much money" is not the answer because unfortunately anyone making over 35,000 a year is probably paying too much of their money in taxes. It's really a racket. We get taxed at so many levels (income, federal and state, medicare, social security, sales tax, hidden tax, etc.), by the end of the day we are paying 50-70% of our earnings to taxes (to then watch the government go and mismanage that money but thats another discussion). And after paying all that in taxes, we still have to pay high prices for medical insurance, parking, public park and beach access, etc. It's a racket that needs to be overthrown... but I digress.

I don't mind paying taxes to help the community I live in. I just don't feel that anyone should pay 50-70% of your earnings no matter how much you make. I would ok paying around 15% and that is why I need some strategies to help me do this...
 

Mexidan

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Mar 28, 2012
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I agree with what you just wrote and while I do not have any valuable input here I think it would be very interest if you could log the changes and progress here in this topic after consulting with someone like GlobalWealth.
 

911Carrera

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Aug 1, 2011
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Congrats on the success. You need to find good accountants who have your best interests in mind. Don't waste your time trying to figure this out yourself on asking for advice on on saving taxes on million dollar profit business on an internet forum. At this level of success you need to put together your A team which comprises of a great accountant, a great lawyer, a great asset protection specialist.
 
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kwes

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Feb 18, 2012
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Congrats on the success. You need to find good accountants who have your best interests in mind. Don't waste your time trying to figure this out yourself on asking for advice on on saving taxes on million dollar profit business on an internet forum. At this level of success you need to put together your A team which comprises of a great accountant, a great lawyer, a great asset protection specialist.

I agree, and I have read about putting together this "team" since I started my financial journey. However, 5 accountants, 2 attorneys, and one very expensive so called financial strategist later, I'm still looking. I am having trouble finding 'A' people to make up my 'A' team. Right now I would say I have a C team (or maybe even D).
 

yahdmon

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A few notes on this, some things one might consider would be very helpful to some of us. I know at the end of the day we all have different looks financially but it would be some what encouraging to see how it comes out for you. Sort of gotten myself in a similar situation and were it not for my confidence in the powers working on my behalf, I would be in a serious state of panic right now.

Thankfully I am not and get good sleep and rest at night.
 

AJ.

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Sep 5, 2010
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Hey,

When you find somebody... post an update.

Not and update as to "how" you're lowering the taxes...
An update as to how you went about getting those "A" list people in your A-Team.

It's good info.
Congrats in your business... I hope to have that problem in the near future!
 
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preciseau

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Oct 2, 2012
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I agree, and I have read about putting together this "team" since I started my financial journey. However, 5 accountants, 2 attorneys, and one very expensive so called financial strategist later, I'm still looking. I am having trouble finding 'A' people to make up my 'A' team. Right now I would say I have a C team (or maybe even D).

Was your financial/tax strategist in Arizona? ;) I may have fallen into the same hype on those guys and wasted 5 figs +. Every accountant/tax attorney/etc. I talk to tells me exactly what I want to hear - we can do xyz and save you 30%. We used to work at Deloitte, have celebrity sports clients, have clients worth $150MM, etc. Then once I pay the FAT retainers and we actually have a sit down - the conversation contains all the same info. (get an IRA so save a few thousand, hire some employees, lease a car, move to Nevada or Florida to save on state tax, give my financial adviser friend $500K, buy some rental real estate and get a bunch of loans, etc.) They all say there is really nothing we can do now, you just have to pay your fair percentage. f*ck - there goes my time and money.

Running a high margin, low expense, single employee company is great for the IRS. They take everything because I have limited deductions.

Taxes suck - Just like you I would pay 15% all day, but getting raped at 52% sucks... Did I mention how much the California taxes sucks... I know everyone says it is a good problem to have, but it kills my motivation. Ex. Find ways to save money or make more money in my business = more tax...

Terrible mindset I know.

If you figure out anything or have talked with anyone who can actually do something, PM me. I am trying to get to that A team too, but feel like everyone out there is a snake oil sales man. I was introduced to someone who is selling federal tax credits so for every 75 cents you spend you get $1 in tax credits (25% savings). Still doing the due diligence, but things like that might be what the A team guys are doing. I really don't know though.
 

liquidglass

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I think GlobalWealth would be the way to go with this advice.

Personally though I think you should keep most of the income in the business to gain a lower tax bracket for yourself and if I'm correct the business taxes would be less than your current personal. Then use the business account to pay for a majority of your activities (you can get crazy with this, just keep good records) then most are completely tax deductible.

(don't necessarily take this part of advice) But let's say your business paid you a paycheck of $150 per week, well there's your personal taxable income. But the business also provides housing for the owner....see where we're going here?
 

TropicalGuy

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All disclaimers apply, these are highly personal decisions and I'm just spitballing here...

One strategy (among tons of completely legit and fun stuff, but many require a lot of effort) would be to found sub-suppliers in foreign countries.

Let's say you buy a lot of SEO and marketing services from other companies. Why not found a company in the Philippines (or similar) that provides these services? Why buy from others when you can buy from yourself? This is the same strategy as a successful marketing company moving their profits to China to set up a factory.

As long as that company does not require substantial assistance from you (ie, isn't just a proxy for you), but is a legit company with employees, a charter etc, you can move a lot of cash to that new entity to fund it's start-up.

If that new entity starts generating profits from new business operations that come up in the future, you can keep those profits in the foreign corp until you decide to earn them either as real income or as dividend (much lower rate). Foreign corps give you flexibility similar to C-Corps in the USA in that regard.

Also you could move overseas for 330 days a year (or establish a foreign tax residency) and not pay taxes on your first 97K (180+ if married) of ordinary income.

...
 
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TropicalGuy

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For USA stuff doable, but if you are interested in going global, in my experience it's been very difficult to find professionals with this type of experience.. probably due to the fact that very few small businesses (under 10MIL) aggressively internationally diversified. Fellow entrepreneurs seem to have the best info. I'm actually exposing my (high-end) tax guy to a lot of international options and spend some time reading IRS docs with him. Anyway, that's purely anecdotal.... but just for the other guys on this board, just because a guy in the US get's paid 250 an hour to talk on the phone about taxes, the chances of him knowing about international diversification strategies are slim due to the liability involved and their complexity. Probably best to work off of referrals before pounding the pavement.

Congrats on the success. You need to find good accountants who have your best interests in mind. Don't waste your time trying to figure this out yourself on asking for advice on on saving taxes on million dollar profit business on an internet forum. At this level of success you need to put together your A team which comprises of a great accountant, a great lawyer, a great asset protection specialist.
 

Jake

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Also you could move overseas for 330 days a year (or establish a foreign tax residency) and not pay taxes on your first 97K (180+ if married) of ordinary income.

...
This is if you're both exceeding the exemption. I wish being married gave me that benefit
 

Jake

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You mean time or cash? Could you make her a partner or officer in the biz?
I just wanted to add some clarification to the statement. In a business I'm sure you can work your wife into the earnings and divvy it up but if the income is coming from one partner and you're married, you are not exempt to 180ishK. I'm married and qualify for the exempt status but having a wife doesn't double my exemption.

I didn't want someone to read the statement and think being married automatically doubled their tax exemption.
 

TropicalGuy

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I just wanted to add some clarification to the statement. In a business I'm sure you can work your wife into the earnings and divvy it up but if the income is coming from one partner and you're married, you are not exempt to 180ishK. I'm married and qualify for the exempt status but having a wife doesn't double my exemption.

I didn't want someone to read the statement and think being married automatically doubled their tax exemption.

Got it! Very true.
 

VinBed

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Feb 1, 2013
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Would it make sense to pay yourself a minimal salary and focus your pay through dividends? The capital gains tax is a lot more reasonable than actual income taxes.

S Corp FAQ: How are S corporation dividends taxed?

You may want to consider becoming a C- corp rather than an S- Corp, and then take the money out through dividends and a tiny salary.

I am no tax expert, but the double-taxation going on may not give you any additional benefits from this sort of structure.
 

deepestblue

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Go to a local chamber meeting and talk with the commercial bankers of a trusted local bank about who the good tax accountants in town are. To many of these individuals, a 7 figure business is small and the good accountants may have some helpful ideas.
 
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tamo42

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Jan 9, 2013
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Congrats on your success.

Fundamentally, taxes are paid on net profits. To reduce taxable net profits you can lower income (never a great idea) or raise expenses. The best kinds of expenses are tax items but not book items, like depreciation and buying passive losses.

And if you can't get enough satisfaction that way, you can look into strategies like the double Irish and related setups.
 

thehawkman

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Mar 27, 2013
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i take it you're one of the politicians?

Cyprus deal is model for future bailouts says top European official as banks are told to open - Europe - World - The Independent

Paying taxes just subsidizes the thieves.
"Russia, however, responded furiously to the deal - condemning it as 'stealing'.

The arrangement with the EU has brought Cyprus back from the brink but will see investors with more than €100,000 in the nation’s largest banks forfeit a large chunk of their deposits.

"In my view, the stealing of what has already been stolen continues," Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev was quoted by news agencies as telling a meeting of government officials.

Despite this Russia also signalled it would backstop the European Union's bailout of Cyprus despite anger that the weekend rescue deal would impose heavy losses on uninsured depositors, many of them Russian."
If this goes through and it will there's nothing to stop them using the "we're in a crisis" excuse to steal everyone's money once a week.
You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paper work and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the moment you go to collect it.

And now they’re coming for your social security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something. They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you sooner or later ‘cause they own this f*cking place. It’s a big club. And you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy.

The table is tilted folks. The game is rigged. And nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good honest, hard-working people. White-collar, blue-collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest, hard-working people continue – these are people of modest means – continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don’t give a f*ck about them. They don’t give a f*ck about you! They don’t give a f*ck about you! They don’t care about you – at all! At all! At all! You know. And nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That’s what the owners count on – is the fact that Americans will probably remain wilfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes every day. Because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called “The American Dream” because you have to be asleep to believe it.
He could have very well been speaking about the EU nowadays. No wonder they are so upset about tax havens in the US and the EU alike. No wonder they're fighting so hard to kill tax havens. It's not to prevent money laundering, it's to take away any chance of keeping what's yours. Between restricting offshore access, automatic information about money transfers, and hiking taxes, and whatever is left can get seized any time right out of your own account claiming that the poor widdle banks need to be bailed out.
And the rabble is perfectly OK with it. The clerk from my bank said well, I'm not worried, I've got no money they can seize. JFC...
 
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100k

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Read rich dad poor dad.

Change it to a C-corporation! I think the top you would pay there is like 25% when you take out dividend.
 

CommonCents

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It was a general point by Cuban to make money and employ people, I'm sure he meant that if you have a big tax bill means you have made it. However I don't see paying taxes as patriotic. Growing the economy and providing jobs for your fellow Americans is patriotic. Govt has proven to become a terrible ROI for people. I think minimizing your taxes legally is patriotic and putting that money to use in growing the economy, giving to charity etc... Why do the rich, super rich do everything they can to avoid paying taxes? Govt is a terrible investment for society. Minimalist smaller govt is essential but we've overshot that by leaps and bounds. Private foundations and charities have much better records in helping more people efficiently than our bloated govt ever will.
 

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