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OFF-TOPIC Business "coaches" are like college professors: Prove me wrong

Kal-El1998

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most of these so called business coaches only tell you what should work, not what does work.

They can't tell ya their own experience with their advice because they have none.

Similarly to college professors.

They have all the book smarts and what should be right...

But have no experience in the real world.
 

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404profound

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There's some good one's, just like there's good professors. Depends on what you want out of a coach. Do you want an accountability partner? Someone to tell you what to do (that's more of a consultant/advisor than a coach)? Someone to help you find out the type of business that fits you? Etc. A lot of good coaching has nothing to do with expertise in your target field. Someone who's just starting out probably wants a mentor or consultant to tell them what to do, instead of a coach.
most of these so called business coaches only tell you what should work, not what does work.

They can't tell ya their own experience with their advice because they have none.

Similarly to college professors.

They have all the book smarts and what should be right...

But have no experience in the real world.
 

Kal-El1998

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There's some good one's, just like there's good professors. Depends on what you want out of a coach. Do you want an accountability partner? Someone to tell you what to do (that's more of a consultant/advisor than a coach)? Someone to help you find out the type of business that fits you? Etc. A lot of good coaching has nothing to do with expertise in your target field. Someone who's just starting out probably wants a mentor or consultant to tell them what to do, instead of a coach.
I was referring more to these guys you'll find in facebook groups posting something like "I'm a professional business consultant, let's do a free consultation I normally charge $500 an hour for"
 

404profound

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I was referring more to these guys you'll find in facebook groups posting something like "I'm a professional business consultant, let's do a free consultation I normally charge $500 an hour for"
This is my opinion, but I have had coaching and have coached others. Getting coaching from someone is like buying a car. You don't walk off the lot with a purchase without taking a test drive. If a car dealer asked you to pay him for a test drive, you'd promptly tell them to stick in their a$$. Any "coach" who asks for money before allowing a client to get an intro session (or "fit session" as they're commonly called) is running something shady, at best.
 

Midnight Green

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The problem is coaches are a bit like politicians: if you want to be one, you probably shouldn’t be. Coaching can be immensely valuable but good coaching is a very rare skill. To properly coach someone you need tons of experience in that field AND didactic skills. Most coaches only have one.

Society tends to treat high achievers as experts, but being good at something does not automatically make you good at transferring the necessary skills and info to another person.

Didactic skills need to be practiced just like the actual skill that is being taught.
Most chess GMs can’t actually explain why a certain move is the right one. They just ‘know’ it is, based on experience. If you hire such a person for an exorbitant amount of dollars expecting to learn hidden chess tactics that will double your ELO, and completely disregard this person’s didactic skills, you’ll be sorely disappointed.

Then, ofcourse, in the business world it’s even worse, because business coaches know that ‘get rich easy’ sells. ‘Hand me your dollars and I’ll make you <insert absurd amount>‘ is an easy sell to the naive. Which fails on pretty much every front of CENTS, by the way.
 

Andy Black

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Any "coach" who asks for money before allowing a client to get an intro session (or "fit session" as they're commonly called) is running something shady, at best.
Why would it be shady to charge for the first call?
 

Martin.G

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The problem is that there are a lot of "Coaches" that doesn't have any experience, like the guru who read a lot of books but never applied anything. But they are not all, since there are people with experience and ready to help you.

It's important to know how to differentiate the good ones from the bad ones, and for that you need to learn first at least the foundation of what you want to improve, in this case business, to know the different.

For example, when I was in college I had a professor who taught software project management. He talked a lot about the good practices in software development and his experience. But he worked in a company in custom support and taught about a waterfall model that today is useless. Fortunately I had been working like a freelance software developed with agile methodologies. That earned me many discussions, but at least I don't came out from college with wrong ideas.
 

Dark Water

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Not sure what the issue with college professors is. I went to a public state school, majored in Entrepreneurship. Once I entered the core curriculum, I had professors that were former CEOs of big companies, ones that ran their own small businesses, and others that had a breadth of life experience ranging from 20 year military careers to professional sports. I imagine the quality of professor becomes even higher as you go to private schools, higher rated schools, Ivys, etc.

As for anyone offering consulting via a Facebook group, LinkedIn message, etc., just block out the noise. Since you know it's not worth your time, don't concern yourself with them. They may have value to offer to someone else, or maybe they don't, but either way don't let it bother you.
 

404profound

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Why would it be shady to charge for the first call?
Because there's no trust, or confidence that I will benefit from working with them until they demonstrate they know what they're talking about and can help me. Anyone can fake a legitimate coaching brand, and still be a shitty coach.
 

TheKingOfMadrid

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I certainly see the similarities. 'Those who can't teach' used to be an insult but it's a very profitable strategy today and as with other people driven fields like recruitment, success coaches and the field of relationship coaching - anyone is free to join.

However as with college professors a lot of the problems with 'business' coaches can be solved by doing your due diligence and selecting only those who have value to give you.

You have to ask yourself If they are successful why are they giving their time to mentorship? What's their goal? is it more money? an opportunity to help? an alternative route of investment?

You have to check the credentials and then discern the value.

It's beyond belief that people give their money to unverified 18 year old 'business growth hackers' on twitter and expect to create a business worth 6 figures in a year.
 

MJ DeMarco

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I went to a public state school, majored in Entrepreneurship. Once I entered the core curriculum, I had professors that were former CEOs of big companies, ones that ran their own small businesses, and others that had a breadth of life experience ranging from 20 year military careers to professional sports. I imagine the quality of professor becomes even higher as you go to private schools, higher rated schools, Ivys, etc.

Yea some professors can be very successful "retired" business people. I actually thought about going this route when I get into my 60s after I divest most of the business assets. I think the Entrepreneurship professor at Stanford and USC is going to be light years different than the a business professor at Paducah Community College.
 

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Andy Black

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Because there's no trust, or confidence that I will benefit from working with them until they demonstrate they know what they're talking about and can help me. Anyone can fake a legitimate coaching brand, and still be a shitty coach.
But what if they’ve built up trust before the first call?

I’m asking because people request a paid call with me who I’ve never spoke to before.
 

socaldude

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One of my college professors was a self made billionaire. He mentored me and he didn’t charge me anything. He was mentored by one of his college professors. Although the other professors were just retired from the corporate world.

Although I never understood the alumni who donated $20 million to get a library named after them LOL.

But if you wanna get cited in college textbooks and journals you have to be a tenured professor as academia doesn’t like citing anything outside of itself.

But I do lean towards the perspective that academia is inefficient, over allocated and hyper inflated when it shouldn’t be. But the problem is our monetary system. Every time I drive pass a school it’s building a new building LOL. Like the casino towers on the Vegas strip. It screams “thanks for your money suckers”.

:rofl:
 

Walter Hay

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But what if they’ve built up trust before the first call?

I’m asking because I sometimes get people requesting a paid call with me who I’ve never spoke to before.
In a forum context the trust is built over a long period through genuine help being given, and answers showing clearly that the "coach" has a great understanding of his/her specialty.

You are an outstanding example of this and you don't need testimonials or offers of free introdutory sessions.

I quite understand why people with no previous contact with you would "out of the blue" request a paid call.

Selling a course or book is not that much different to selling coaching and there are great examples on this forum of people who have not only shown that they have been there - done that, but have also shared their vast knowledge with forum members.

Some have moved on to offer coaching, courses, or books, and that is probably due to that being a far more efficient way of sharing their knowledge, and in the process filtering out those who always want something for nothing.

Walter
 

404profound

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But what if they’ve built up trust before the first call?

I’m asking because people request a paid call with me who I’ve never spoke to before.
I think trust is the key factor. In your case, you've produced results for people, and those people are probably marketing for you via word of mouth. The reputation of quality preempts the first contact. Whereas some random coach who is just drawing leads from good marketing would be less trustworthy to me (unless Im looking to be coached on lead generation, in which case, the fact that I found them pretty much speaks for itself).
 

daivey

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I certainly see the similarities. 'Those who can't teach' used to be an insult but it's a very profitable strategy today and as with other people driven fields like recruitment, success coaches and the field of relationship coaching - anyone is free to join.

However as with college professors a lot of the problems with 'business' coaches can be solved by doing your due diligence and selecting only those who have value to give you.

You have to ask yourself If they are successful why are they giving their time to mentorship? What's their goal? is it more money? an opportunity to help? an alternative route of investment?

You have to check the credentials and then discern the value.

It's beyond belief that people give their money to unverified 18 year old 'business growth hackers' on twitter and expect to create a business worth 6 figures in a year.
I think a lot of small businesses get started by people that have zero clue about lots of things

I can see why many businesses need consulting help. Their processes suck, they don't have good eye for customer service, their pricing doesn't make sense, etc.

That being said, I probably wouldn't take advice from a 20 year old - not in a business sense. I would take advice from a 20 year old that knows programming though. But, I would be skeptical about anything they say, unless they had a proven track record.
 

Kevin88660

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most of these so called business coaches only tell you what should work, not what does work.

They can't tell ya their own experience with their advice because they have none.

Similarly to college professors.

They have all the book smarts and what should be right...

But have no experience in the real world.
The more open ended a problem is the less likely you can get help from an external mentor.

Even if you can bring Steve Jobs alive and he probably tell you to go follow your passion, how is that going to be helpful to someone running SEO for clients’ websites?

I think the most useful concrete advice you can get is finding experienced people who are still in the game operating in the same space. Trying to find answers for specific questions instead. This is more like a top priority.

There are actually good journalism in the business/entrepreneurship space. Writers who write about business and case studies. They don’t solve your immediate problem can probably can connect the dots later.
 

Ondkeso

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Didactic skills need to be practiced just like the actual skill that is being taught.
Most chess GMs can’t actually explain why a certain move is the right one. They just ‘know’ it is, based on experience. If you hire such a person for an exorbitant amount of dollars expecting to learn hidden chess tactics that will double your ELO, and completely disregard this person’s didactic skills, you’ll be sorely disappointed.
Got me thinking of this:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZFS0kewLRQ


A 4-min video about "how Magnus Carlsens mind work" and basically, he just say "I know what to do" :)
 

Tourmaline

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The best ones help you think through your ideas and gain clarity more so than tell you what you should or should not do.
 

Mirko_Cuneo

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To be a Coach you must have gained a lot of experience in your industry and put your skills and the skills you have developed available to others. A real Coach does not tell you what to do but explains what is more convenient to do to achieve a certain result.

It is important to choose the right person for your coaching path because the final result depends on the work done together. The Coach can put his experience into it, he saves you time and keeps you updated but you have to put effort and perseverance into it if you want to get results. This applies to any type of coaching.
 

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