BlackDragon's take: The secret to scaling up.

[Black_Dragon43]

Moderator Note:
This is in response to a prior thread, posted here:

IDEA - SCALING - SUCCESS! - Antifragile's take: The secret to scaling up.

The secret to scaling up. Imagine a tailor who has little experience with suits making a one of a kind suit for you. Imagine he had to get it right the first time! It's not going to end well. And that's just a suit. That's how most people approach business. They have this big spark! Great...

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@Black_Dragon43 (yes, even you!)

Thank you @Antifragile

There is some helpful advice here.

But most of it is still extremely general.

I will comment just on what I disagree with.

Talk to someone who's successful. Face to face! Ask them: "You know me, what should I do? How can I make something of myself? What's your advice?"

I personally have my doubts about this method. I can't tell even my best friend what they should do unless they tell me, for example, I'm interested to do X. Then I can advise on the how. Because nobody knows you better than you know yourself. So at the highest level, only you can decide, since you know yourself, and you matter most when it comes to choosing the right direction.

Remember, you paid your bills already, so you aren't desperate, you are now moving towards something BETTER.

Ummm... I make $25-30K/mo profit these days, and I'm just as desperate as I was 12 years ago when I was broke. $25-30K/mo is what a good wage per YEAR is where I'm from. If you're not desperate, you're losing. Why would you not be desperate?

Most people don't understand what it means to be crazy about making money. It means to be desperate. That desperation is what will make you successful. Because you'll do anything, whatever it takes to be successful.

I'm not saying that your desperation should control you -- not at all, you should still be in control of it, so that you don't let it make you do something stupid. Think of bottled desperation -- that's what you need.

Look at Felix Dennis. All he thought about was money. He dreamed about money in his sleep. That's what pushed him to satisfy his partners & customers, and do what it takes to be successful.

How? Start by getting a Project Manager education & a job, so you know you won't F*ck it all up. That's probably a 2 year investment into a specialized education. It can serve you well to build up either a construction or a real estate company! It's something that can serve you long term.

If you said this to me I'd laugh at you. I'd tell you I want $10M in 2 years, NOT F*cking having a specialized education and having to still start my business. Like WTF?! I wanna make money dude. I don't wanna jack off dreaming about building & selling small buildings for two years and only then start my company... If you want me to get started with those buildings show me how to get the cash for it - how to build connections with investors, how to convince them I'm a big chad who will make them boatloads of money, how to have supreme confidence, etc. etc.

Start by getting a Project Manager education & a job, so you know you won't F*ck it all up.

If you know you won't F*ck it up, you're not thinking big enough dude. It should be so big you're almost sure you'll F*ck it up, and then you let the desperation inside you power you through everything so that you make it all a great success for everyone involved.

Be fearless and disrupt the status quo. You see strollers go for $1,000+ a pop? What if you made a minimalist version for $100? It'll suck but maybe it'll be good enough for just a "mall" visit?!

That will take months to start. I wanna make money NOW dude... Not invest in something that may or may not pay off months down the line.

This is how most entrepreneurs fail... complex ideas, where the payoff is far into the future. Why are we even talking about PayPal and eBay?! Trying to start PayPal or eBay is a recipe for failure. So many stars have to align, I can almost bet that you'll go broke.

You need simple ideas. Import tea from china. Sell to local coffee shops. SIMPLE! You go out, and you test it in 1-2 weeks max. WTF is this complicated shit, make a stroller, bla bla bla. I'll go crazy by the time the stroller is finished... literarily!

This is why I love e-commerce and internet business. You can make money, and lots of it, instantly. I've had clients who started an agency, signed up to work with me, 1-year later they were bringing in $1M+ in business. That's virtually impossible to achieve with offline businesses, unless you already have connections, or are able to develop those connections QUICKLY. Like Dan Pena teaches.

What Dan Pena teaches, that's along the lines of highly effective. F*ck, make $10M in 1 year, not 5 dude. Pick up the phone, call after old farts who are on their death bed, arrange with banks and other successful businesspeople to buy their company using bank money, etc. etc.

That's how you make big money, and you do it FAST.

If a business doesn't make you money fast, just close it.

Don't even think of complicated things.

Start with simple stuff.

That's my advice.

 

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[Antifragile]

If you're not desperate, you're losing. Why would you not be desperate?

Weird statement. You and I are so different! How are you desperate if all your financial needs (not wants, needs) are well covered?

Most people don't understand what it means to be crazy about making money. It means to be desperate. That desperation is what will make you successful. Because you'll do anything, whatever it takes to be successful.

Ironically, my method seems to make people more money. We debated this too much already, to sum up:

My priorities are in this order: 1) Family, 2) Health, 3) Business - and 3 supports 1 and 2. Your priorities are "money". You and I will never see eye to eye on this and we don't need to. Readers should know, this distinction.

If you said this to me I'd laugh at you. I'd tell you I want $10M in 2 years, NOT F*cking having a specialized education and having to still start my business. Like WTF?! I wanna make money dude. I don't wanna jack off dreaming about building & selling small buildings for two years and only then start my company... If you want me to get started with those buildings show me how to get the cash for it - how to build connections with investors, how to convince them I'm a big chad who will make them boatloads of money, how to have supreme confidence, etc. etc.

You do that. It sometimes works in the tech sector, from what I understand. But in the "old school" business like mine, you would never even be remembered. You'd fail, lose money and become a but a distant memory.

Those who come off like you aren't respected because everyone knows the type. All hype, not substance. Spark but no lasting fire.

If you know you won't F*ck it up, you're not thinking big enough dude. It should be so big you're almost sure you'll F*ck it up, and then you let the desperation inside you power you through everything so that you make it all a great success for everyone involved.

Reading this I am glad you are running some marketing agency and not building housing. To imagine that I could live in a place that was built by a desperate no experience guy who wanted to "F*ck it up" just to know he's pushing boundaries...

Let me rephrase. In tech, you can fail fast, it's even called "fail fast". But in real estate, you can't build a high-rise, tear it down and say "based on consumer feedback, we'll now reprogram it this way". You can't do it even with small buildings!

But with experience, knowledge, team... you can build a massive empire of a company.

That will take months to start. I wanna make money NOW dude... Not invest in something that may or may not pay off months down the line.

Jeff Bezos - Amazon. No earnings for decades. Hmmm...

You need simple ideas. Import tea from china. Sell to local coffee shops. SIMPLE! You go out, and you test it in 1-2 weeks max. WTF is this complicated shit, make a stroller, bla bla bla. I'll go crazy by the time the stroller is finished... literarily!

This is why I love e-commerce and internet business. You can make money, and lots of it, instantly. I've had clients who started an agency, signed up to work with me, 1-year later they were bringing in $1M+ in business. That's virtually impossible to achieve with offline businesses, unless you already have connections, or are able to develop those connections QUICKLY. Like Dan Pena teaches.

No. For one, you'll struggle in your e-commerce just like any other business. Just read @fastlane_dad and @NeoDialectic stories. They didn't make bank "instantly". Took a long while for their exit.

That's why I created this thread. It is to show there is another way. A "long game" way. To accept that great things in life take time to build. It is a far more effective (better odds) way.

People who chase quick bucks and fail to hit their targets - typically get comfortably numb. Make just enough money to be OK, but not enough to get to another level. Focus on money only is a bad idea, I say focus on your customer needs/wants. What problem are you solving?

My advice will be less popular than yours. Because I say: invest in yourself. It is hard work. It is frustrating because it takes time. But by the time you are done, even if you needed a "job", it would be a 7 figure salary. And by the way, my "slow" way, gives you wealth in 10 years flat almost guaranteed. The odds are insanely good that you'll be killing it.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Weird statement. You and I are so different! How are you desperate if all your financial needs (not wants, needs) are well covered?

Because I want to be the richest. It's a competition. If I was a tennis player I'd be desperate to be number 1 in the world too.

You do that. It sometimes works in the tech sector, from what I understand. But in the "old school" business like mine, you would never even be remembered. Those who come off like you aren't respected because everyone knows the type. All hype, not substance. Spark but no lasting fire.

Yes I know, which is why those industries are hard. I honestly look at them as being slowlane. You'll be a millionaire in your late 30s, early 40s.

It is possible to do it otherwise, but you need to approach it Dan Pena style, and find desperate people who are willing to work with you or sell to you.

Reading this I am glad you are running some marketing agency and not building housing. To imagine that I could live in a place that was built by a desperate no experience guy who wanted to "F*ck it up" just to know he's pushing boundaries...

Why would I be responsible for making sure it doesn't collapse? That's the job of the structural engineer & architect who design it + the construction company who builds it. There are building codes that pretty much make it impossible for such things to occur, ignoring gross negligence now. My job is to hire those people and crack the whip so they do a good job. Dan Pena started in a traditional industry, oil. He made $100M+ before he even learned that oil and gas don't come up the same pipeline.

No. For one, you'll struggle in your e-commerce just like any other business. Just read @fastlane_dad and @NeoDialectic stories. They didn't make bank "instantly". Took a long while for their exit.

Yes, I don't disagree. There are struggles, but at least you're making visible progress. You're at $10K/mo quite quickly, you can see there's potential, so that keeps you excited. My business grew this month by 12 clients already... That means $9K in top line revenue, recurring, month after month. If it's let's say your 3rd month running your agency, and you're bringing in consistently $4.5K+/mo of revenue, that's progress, growth, something solid that you can build on.

I'd much rather do that, then spend all that time designing a stroller, and not being sure that I'll make bank.

It is a far more effective (better odds) way.

Is it really? I really don't feel it is. I feel it's sort of like wait years, and PRAY you get lucky.

Focus on money only is a bad idea, I say focus on your customer needs/wants. What problem are you solving?

I agree. But for me, focusing on money = focusing on customers. It's like we're playing tennis. Focusing on winning = focusing on my form & strategy. Those two are related, not separate.

Because I say: invest in yourself. It is hard work. It is frustrating because it takes time. But by the time you are done, even if you needed a "job", it would be a 7 figure salary. And by the way, my "slow" way, gives you wealth in 10 years flat almost guaranteed. The odds are insanely good that you'll be killing it.

OK, but what are the compromises you have to make? I have full freedom as things stand now. I can always start a business that make $5K+/mo from scratch in 1 month flat. I have invested massively in myself. I can sell like a pro, I know how to market & create powerful content, I know how to hire & manage people and do it cheaply, I know how to create & sell info products, I know how to coach, I know how to build & edit a website, and everything about it. I can bet that your web designer doesn't know as much as I do (for example, I use .htaccess files to improve security for my website, I know of almost no web developer who can do that), and the list can go on.

I created all this by investing in myself, and going on my own from the very beginning. I am an absolute master at my business. I could've made more money until now if I wanted to skip a few steps and just hire others, but I wanted to invest in myself.

And I'm always investing in myself. Just recently I did Andy's Google Ads course + Isaac Rudansky's Google Ads Course (over 30 hours). I listened to them in 2 days, it's 30 hours of content. Can you imagine doing that on top of all your usual work? I really punish myself and push myself all the time to get better, grow and expand my skillset.

All I'm trying to say is that I have complete freedom in my business. I don't answer to anyone. If I don't want to work with someone, I don't. If I want to stop working with someone, I do. I don't think you have the same sort of freedom. I know local people here who are into real estate and developments. The people I know come from a background in banking, working for some of the large banks before starting. They are old, "boring" business people. They have to go to all sorts of networking events, they have to do entertain all sorts of people at their houses, and so on. If they had to do what I have to do, they wouldn't survive for a single day, because all their skills are high level - managing people. But, if you were to take me and put me in one of their places, I could do just fine.

So I am a believer in investing in yourself. But I'm also a believer in freedom & independence.

 

[BizyDad]

I'm not saying that your desperation should control you -- not at all, you should still be in control of it

That's called hunger. Not desperation. Stay hungry.

What's the difference? Whether it controls you or not. If it controls you, you're desperate. If you control it, you're hungry.

Isn't semantics great?

Because I want to be the richest. It's a competition. If I was a tennis player I'd be desperate to be number 1 in the world too.


Yes I know, which is why those industries are hard. I honestly look at them as being slowlane. You'll be a millionaire in your late 30s, early 40s.

It is possible to do it otherwise, but you need to approach it Dan Pena style, and find desperate people who are willing to work with you or sell to you.


Why would I be responsible for making sure it doesn't collapse? That's the job of the structural engineer & architect who design it + the construction company who builds it. There are building codes that pretty much make it impossible for such things to occur, ignoring gross negligence now. My job is to hire those people and crack the whip so they do a good job. Dan Pena started in a traditional industry, oil. He made $100M+ before he even learned that oil and gas don't come up the same pipeline.


Yes, I don't disagree. There are struggles, but at least you're making visible progress. You're at $10K/mo quite quickly, you can see there's potential, so that keeps you excited. My business grew this month by 12 clients already... That means $9K in top line revenue, recurring, month after month. If it's let's say your 3rd month running your agency, and you're bringing in consistently $4.5K+/mo of revenue, that's progress, growth, something solid that you can build on.

I'd much rather do that, then spend all that time designing a stroller, and not being sure that I'll make bank.


Is it really? I really don't feel it is. I feel it's sort of like wait years, and PRAY you get lucky.


I agree. But for me, focusing on money = focusing on customers. It's like we're playing tennis. Focusing on winning = focusing on my form & strategy. Those two are related, not separate.


OK, but what are the compromises you have to make? I have full freedom as things stand now. I can always start a business that make $5K+/mo from scratch in 1 month flat. I have invested massively in myself. I can sell like a pro, I know how to market & create powerful content, I know how to hire & manage people and do it cheaply, I know how to create & sell info products, I know how to coach, I know how to build & edit a website, and everything about it. I can bet that your web designer doesn't know as much as I do (for example, I use .htaccess files to improve security for my website, I know of almost no web developer who can do that), and the list can go on.

I created all this by investing in myself, and going on my own from the very beginning. I am an absolute master at my business. I could've made more money until now if I wanted to skip a few steps and just hire others, but I wanted to invest in myself.

And I'm always investing in myself. Just recently I did Andy's Google Ads course + Isaac Rudansky's Google Ads Course (over 30 hours). I listened to them in 2 days, it's 30 hours of content. Can you imagine doing that on top of all your usual work? I really punish myself and push myself all the time to get better, grow and expand my skillset.

All I'm trying to say is that I have complete freedom in my business. I don't answer to anyone. If I don't want to work with someone, I don't. If I want to stop working with someone, I do. I don't think you have the same sort of freedom. I know local people here who are into real estate and developments. The people I know come from a background in banking, working for some of the large banks before starting. They are old, "boring" business people. They have to go to all sorts of networking events, they have to do entertain all sorts of people at their houses, and so on. If they had to do what I have to do, they wouldn't survive for a single day, because all their skills are high level - managing people. But, if you were to take me and put me in one of their places, I could do just fine.

So I am a believer in investing in yourself. But I'm also a believer in freedom & independence.

Me me me. I I I.

I'm so great. I'm so awesome. I can do so much. And Dan Pena proves everything I say.

My word BD. What is this peacocking nonsense?

You know what you sound like? The difference between Dan Pena and you, is the difference between you and one of these big talking noobs that come on here.

Blah blah blah. If your life works for you, awesome. But 99.9% of the people who try to go the route you say, do not end up even anywhere close to where you have gotten so far.

So your way is really a 10-year path too.

Because I want to be the richest. It's a competition. If I was a tennis player I'd be desperate to be number 1 in the world too.

It's a competition? Okay fine. But you sound like number 50th in the league and you're trash talking that the number three guy isn't good enough.

And your way is better.

for example, I use .htaccess files to improve security for my website, I know of almost no web developer who can do that

I know how to do it. And I'm not even a web developer. It's a simple Google search bro.

I even know what can go wrong when you do this. I know what breaks. And I know how to fix what breaks.

And learning that second part came from real world experience. Not a blog post.

Antifragile recommended people go get a job to get real world experience.

And you disagree? Child please.

The people I know come from a background in banking, working for some of the large banks before starting. They are old, "boring" business people. They have to go to all sorts of networking events, they have to do entertain all sorts of people at their houses, and so on. If they had to do what I have to do, they wouldn't survive for a single day, because all their skills are high level - managing people.

I'm a former banker. I'm not boring. I have high level skills. I've even written a thread on how to maximize networking events.

And I can do what you can do. Funnels. Oooo. So hard. Run some social ads. Write some copy. Sell some stuff. Automate. Rinse. Repeat.

find desperate people who are willing to work with you or sell to you.

This right here is your moment of genius. This is an underappreciated comment.

Of course a banker with "high level skills like managing people" would probably do better at executing this kind of tactic than a typical solo marketing expert. You're not typical, but most people who are going to read this thread frankly are. And you want them to follow your way.

And actually, it wasn't yours. It is Dan Pena's.

So... To recap.

A former banker who knows how to use .htaccess to secure a website, write copy, has a history of taking/helping a company to a million in profit in a year in Antifragile's field (real estate) and Black Dragon's realm (e-commerce), has actually implemented the Dan Pena tactic and found someone desperate enough to sell their business and purchased it, and believes in God and family above all.

Gosh, if this is a competition I'm guessing I'm positioned pretty well regardless of whose rules we are following.

But I'm not to act like I'm better than the some new person on the forum. I'd rather teach them how to hold the racket better rather than show off my 105 mph serve.

@Black_Dragon43 can we go back to letting @Antifragile actually try to help people. Do you really want to argue business theory when his way ACTUALLY WORKS for many people not named @Black_Dragon43 ?

At the very least, please don't hijack a good thread to stick your chest out. It just ain't cool.

 

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[Kevin88660]

I’d say it’s a matter of intensity. Desperation is more intense than hunger. If intense feelings control you, then you need to get better at managing them I’d say.


Are you sure?


That’s great that you’re able to do all those things. You must have invested quite a bit of time into developing skills and taking these matters into your own hands.

I’m simply saying that most bankers I know don’t do this. And I can tell you so many stories to prove this point. I even have close family who is very good friends with a local bank CEO here, whom I’ve even met (she’s retired now, so she used to be the CEO about 10 yeaes ago).

Let me put to like this: complete retard. Doesn’t even understand VAT. According to my own relative, knows F*ck all about business, and yet, lo and behold, CEO of a commercial bank.

Why?

As I was saying in the other thread, it’s because most of the world is run by incompetent people, old farts, who cling to their chairs and make rules & laws to protect themselves and their incompetence. They form a clique, and if you want to enter their world, it’s not a function of skill — it’s a function of OBEDIENCE.

Because in the state of nature, young, blonde beasts of prey as Nietzsche called them — meaning young, strong, fit males — would immediately proceed to loot the old farts and take away their wealth… since they’re infinitely smarter, more capable, stronger, more cunning.

And so, the old farts have realized that in order to keep control, the best way it to keep a leash on the young. Have them work for years to “gain experience”. Put age limits, so if they’re too young, they can’t even hold certain positions. And so on.

So here’s my question to people in this thread. Is this the way you want to live? Become one of the “old farts” yourself? Go through the process of obedience training?

I don’t. I had multiple experiences with several “old farts”, and I’m convinced that their world is one big sham. Sure it does promise wealth, if you are a good & obedient boy - meaning if you lose your freedom!

I’ll give another example. The head of one of the largest agencies here ($10M+ revenues) hired my first agency to help her with a new coaching business she was launching (gosh, I wonder why she didn’t hire her own agency?! Right?). This was many years ago.

In the process I got to know her. Complete retard who knows next to NOTHING about marketing. Her expertise is taking credit, manipulation, and obedience. And yet she had Coca Cola working with her agency… can you imagine that? The retards at Coca Cola are throwing that money out the window, not because she has any great capabilities, but because she’s safe… obedient, approved by the Stooges, and so on.

In other words, old farts have skewed the situation around to protect their interests. We don’t live in a meritocracy, where the strong, fit and capable win out. These people are busy installing limiting beliefs in people, to keep them under control and in the leash.

And you guys are telling me that this is the way to go. Work for these guys. Retards, who pretty much can’t do anything themselves, but they’ve been good foot soldiers their entire lives and now that they’re old, they were allowed, by other Stooges to climb up the ranks.

Can you imagine if I ran the marketing for Coca Cola? I’d get parents pouring coke down the throats of their kids!!

And yet, here we are, saying that becoming one of the old farts is the way to go… the fastlane path. Really?!

Sorry Bizy, but I’m not buying it.

“At the very least, please don't hijack a good thread to stick your chest out. It just ain't cool.”
Ok - if you reply again, I’ll reach out in private to let you know my answer.

All else being equal, I agree that more opportunities are there in a new/younger industry for young people.

The first hurdle is experience. No one will pin you down for lack of expertise when the industry has only existed for 10 years.

The second hurdle is regulation, that grows over the years. When an industry ages, consumer complaints pile up and convert into government regulations, which in turn become entry barriers against smaller new players without scale who cannot afford the high fixed cost.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Wow. I am humbled by how popular this thread became overnight. Thank you all.

But there has been some disagreement, which is healthy! Allow me to push back on "experience is for suckers, I can do this out of sheer will and look at me making money fast, winning winning winning!" nonsense.

How important is experience? How important is slow/long planning?​

Some people think that if you aren't failing, you aren't trying hard enough. That my method is too slow. That deliberate approach to improving yourself is outdated and all the internet businesses are taking over.

Creativity (even in how you make money) requires a muse, not experience, not slow thinking / planning. True/false?

Hmm...

What to the following have in common?

• Jaws movie
• Sydney Opera House, &
• Electric Lady recording studio

All projects believed creativity is something mysterious and spontaneous. It cannot be scheduled or planned.

“Necessity is the mother of invention”

And succeeded too.

These sexy stories of projects that had no plan, no budget and …

Somehow they not only made it, but are cemented in history.

Why do planning when you “work best under stress”?

Wouldn’t it be better to let what’s natural just be?

No No NO

Daniel Kahlerman wrote in Thinking, Fast and Slow that using reference-class forecasting is "the single most important piece of advice regarding how to increase accuracy in forecasting through improved methods".

Let's back up a little ...


The problem here is that projects that fail miserably are forgotten.

Projects that run into trouble but succeed are remembered and celebrated.

Survivorship bias. Overlooking those projects that failed is a bad mistake.

Sydney Opera House story:

The city held an international competition to design an opera house, and it was won by a Danish architect named Jørn Utzon. He was a relatively unknown when he won this competition. The final bill was 1,400% over estimate, one of the largest cost overruns for a building in history!
And the whole thing destroyed Jørn Utzon's career.
Have you heard of his other projects? Exactly.

But you may counter that Jaws was 300% over budget, no experience, no plan and yet somehow box office made more. It made careers. The odds of that happening are 20% based on a sample of over 2,000 projects.

80% chance it’ll be over budget and under expected value. That’s bad odds!

A Canadian story:

Note that all Olympic Games suffer from "eternal beginner syndrome" because they are done every 4 years and in different countries, no experienced team does it often enough. Each country is a beginner.

• 1976 Montreal Olympics, result?
• 720% over budget
• Montreal Gazette said “Olympic stadium cost so much it took 30 years for Quebec to pay it off”

How much worse could it be?

My take remains and is supported by data:

Creative process is *slow*, *painstaking* and intensely *iterative*.

It applies to your small business as much as to the little "lego" parts of the enterprise you are building. It literally applies to everything.

Just like a world class surgeon will always command a $7-figure "salary" after "wasting years getting experience"... but if you needed that surgery, would you rather have someone who didn't train as long? nope.

Still in doubt?

Aristotle said that experience is "The fruit of years" and argued that it is the source of what he called "phronesis" - the "practical wisdom" that allows us to see what is good for people and make it happen, which Aristotle saw as the highest "intellectual virtue".

Next time you fly somewhere, remember that you want the flight attendant to be the optimist, not the pilot. Can you imagine hearing from the pilot "I am optimistic about our ability to get there, I took an online course last night"?

I rest my case.

Thank you Mr. Prosecutor.

I believe there are two kinds of entrepreneurs...

Pirates -- Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Carl Ichan, Larry Elison, Mark Zuckerberg, Phil Knight, Grant Cardone, Jordan Belfort, MJ, @Lex DeVille, myself, I see all these people as pirates. Meaning they are very open to take risks, non-traditional paths, and rely on their own resourcefulness to make hard-to-achieve things come true. Typically they have great sales skills.

&

OLD MEN (just kidding, let's call them Administrators) -- Warren Buffet, Charles Koch, Charlie Munger, Jack Welch, Bernard Arnault, YOU. These guys take a more traditional path with better odds as you call them. They rely on their social network largely to progress. Most entrepreneurs in the world fit into this category actually, and typically they have great management/leadership skills.

This is YOU @Antifragile in 30-40 years:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_uB9bdzF0g&ab_channel=FREENVESTING


You don't believe it's possible to day trade stocks and make millions. I do. I have a good friend who did exactly this, who lives in the Bahamas now.

"Uhhh but what about the millions who lost everything!" -- if that's how my friend would have thought, he'd never have made his moolah. He actually advised me on a trade once, and he profited from it, and I lost over $10K. He probably made money off me, and probably advised hundreds of others to do the same to make it possible for him to profit. So what? I don't blame him, I blame myself for not using my own brain to think of a better strategy.

You need to be SMARTER, BETTER than the millions of losers who lost everything. I made over $100K from crypto 2 years ago, returns of 2,000%+. Not 300% as grandpa Charlie was crying about. 2,000%+!! I had a plan, and I was smarter than the retards, and knew how to read charts and think about markets. I actually announced all my trades publically in my discord group. I predicted the collapse of crypto back then. I predicted the exact DAY. And people were in AWE how I could tell my trade & strategy and then it would happen. I borrowed 6:1 to make it happen.

If you're SMART, and if you're INTELLIGENT, and if you're COMPETITIVE, and if you have other SMARTIES around you, then you CAN beat out the retards. I don't care what the average results are. I'm not average. So why are we talking about averages dude? You think you're average?! I don't care that a normal brain surgeon needs 10+ years. I could probably become a brain surgeon with 1-2 dedicated years of study 24/7 (ie, as much as possible) and be better than the guy who prepared for 10 years. Not that the corrupt society in which we live would let me legally practice, but I could probably do it.

So the odds are irrelevant to me, because I know they don't apply. I don't expect most people to be able to do what I do.

Basically, I have zero interest to respect social norms, which I guess means you could call me a semi-sociopath. I'd hate to be put in a system where I have a boss who is less capable than me. I experienced that all through high-school, and also in University, both of which I've graduated at the very peak of my class. I hate all red tape, all bureaucracy, all inefficiencies.

The Administrators in my view are trying to make the slowlane fast, and in some cases succeeding. However, I don't see that as being the essence of entrepreneurship. The essence of entrepreneurship implies risk and self-reliance, independence from society.

I don't look at a guy who went through med school 10+ years to become a brain surgeon with respect in-so-far as his wealth is concerned. I don't care that he makes $200-300K/year. And I don't care that he buys property like a retard and has $10M+ 10 years down the line. I see him as a coward financially. The same way I don't respect the guy whose family has a business, and they go join that business being a peon there. WTF?! Business is EASY when you have that kinda network. F*ck. You don't need ANY skills to make it work. Even if you sell like a monkey, they will still close, because they know the company, they did business with them before, yadda yadda.

 

[thechosen1]

Thank you Mr. Prosecutor.

I believe there are two kinds of entrepreneurs...

Pirates -- Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Carl Ichan, Larry Elison, Mark Zuckerberg, Phil Knight, Grant Cardone, Jordan Belfort, MJ, @Lex DeVille, myself, I see all these people as pirates. Meaning they are very open to take risks, non-traditional paths, and rely on their own resourcefulness to make hard-to-achieve things come true. Typically they have great sales skills.

&

OLD MEN (just kidding, let's call them Administrators) -- Warren Buffet, Charles Koch, Charlie Munger, Jack Welch, Bernard Arnault, YOU. These guys take a more traditional path with better odds as you call them. They rely on their social network largely to progress. Most entrepreneurs in the world fit into this category actually, and typically they have great management/leadership skills.

This is YOU @Antifragile in 30-40 years:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_uB9bdzF0g&ab_channel=FREENVESTING


You don't believe it's possible to day trade stocks and make millions. I do. I have a good friend who did exactly this, who lives in the Bahamas now.

"Uhhh but what about the millions who lost everything!" -- if that's how my friend would have thought, he'd never have made his moolah. He actually advised me on a trade once, and he profited from it, and I lost over $10K. He probably made money off me, and probably advised hundreds of others to do the same to make it possible for him to profit. So what? I don't blame him, I blame myself for not using my own brain to think of a better strategy.

You need to be SMARTER, BETTER than the millions of losers who lost everything. I made over $100K from crypto 2 years ago, returns of 2,000%+. Not 300% as grandpa Charlie was crying about. 2,000%+!! I had a plan, and I was smarter than the retards, and knew how to read charts and think about markets. I actually announced all my trades publically in my discord group. I predicted the collapse of crypto back then. I predicted the exact DAY. And people were in AWE how I could tell my trade & strategy and then it would happen. I borrowed 6:1 to make it happen.

If you're SMART, and if you're INTELLIGENT, and if you're COMPETITIVE, and if you have other SMARTIES around you, then you CAN beat out the retards. I don't care what the average results are. I'm not average. So why are we talking about averages dude? You think you're average?! I don't care that a normal brain surgeon needs 10+ years. I could probably become a brain surgeon with 1-2 dedicated years of study 24/7 (ie, as much as possible) and be better than the guy who prepared for 10 years. Not that the corrupt society in which we live would let me legally practice, but I could probably do it.

So the odds are irrelevant to me, because I know they don't apply. I don't expect most people to be able to do what I do.

Basically, I have zero interest to respect social norms, which I guess means you could call me a semi-sociopath. I'd hate to be put in a system where I have a boss who is less capable than me. I experienced that all through high-school, and also in University, both of which I've graduated at the very peak of my class. I hate all red tape, all bureaucracy, all inefficiencies.

The Administrators in my view are trying to make the slowlane fast, and in some cases succeeding. However, I don't see that as being the essence of entrepreneurship. The essence of entrepreneurship implies risk and self-reliance, independence from society.

I don't look at a guy who went through med school 10+ years to become a brain surgeon with respect in-so-far as his wealth is concerned. I don't care that he makes $200-300K/year. And I don't care that he buys property like a retard and has $10M+ 10 years down the line. I see him as a coward financially. The same way I don't respect the guy whose family has a business, and they go join that business being a peon there. WTF?! Business is EASY when you have that kinda network. F*ck. You don't need ANY skills to make it work. Even if you sell like a monkey, they will still close, because they know the company, they did business with them before, yadda yadda.

"Publically?"

"SMARTIES?"

You've got to be F$%king joking, man.

 

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[Antifragile]

Thank you Mr. Prosecutor.

I believe there are two kinds of entrepreneurs...

Pirates -- Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Carl Ichan, Larry Elison, Mark Zuckerberg, Phil Knight, Grant Cardone, Jordan Belfort, MJ, @Lex DeVille, myself, I see all these people as pirates. Meaning they are very open to take risks, non-traditional paths, and rely on their own resourcefulness to make hard-to-achieve things come true. Typically they have great sales skills.

Dude. Give me a break, YOU are not a Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and so on... you just aren't!
Your EGO may be on par with those guys, but you aren't. It makes it harder to respond to when you make these kinds of comparisons.

&

OLD MEN (just kidding, let's call them Administrators) -- Warren Buffet, Charles Koch, Charlie Munger, Jack Welch, Bernard Arnault, YOU. These guys take a more traditional path with better odds as you call them. They rely on their social network largely to progress. Most entrepreneurs in the world fit into this category actually, and typically they have great management/leadership skills.

This is YOU @Antifragile in 30-40 years:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_uB9bdzF0g&ab_channel=FREENVESTING


You don't believe it's possible to day trade stocks and make millions. I do. I have a good friend who did exactly this, who lives in the Bahamas now.

Sample of 1 works for you. There are also lotto winners!

"Uhhh but what about the millions who lost everything!" -- if that's how my friend would have thought, he'd never have made his moolah. He actually advised me on a trade once, and he profited from it, and I lost over $10K. He probably made money off me, and probably advised hundreds of others to do the same to make it possible for him to profit. So what? I don't blame him, I blame myself for not using my own brain to think of a better strategy.

You need better friends. Or a brush up on the definition of "friend". Anyone who F*cks me like your "friend" F*cked you isn't going to be in my life in any way (let alone be called a "friend").

That's why we clash so much, you act like morals, family, hobbies, friends... have no place in business!

You need to be SMARTER, BETTER than the millions of losers who lost everything. I made over $100K from crypto 2 years ago, returns of 2,000%+. Not 300% as grandpa Charlie was crying about. 2,000%+!! I had a plan, and I was smarter than the retards, and knew how to read charts and think about markets. I actually announced all my trades publically in my discord group. I predicted the collapse of crypto back then. I predicted the exact DAY. And people were in AWE how I could tell my trade & strategy and then it would happen. I borrowed 6:1 to make it happen.

You are a genius!

And with all that brainpower, being the best of the best... how on earth are you not a billionaire yet? Why did you make only $100k? You are the super sales person. You should have borrowed $100Million & done the 2,000%X on that!

I'll break your bubble here, you are not that smart. You are not better than everyone else. You are not a genius.

If you're SMART, and if you're INTELLIGENT, and if you're COMPETITIVE, and if you have other SMARTIES around you, then you CAN beat out the retards. I don't care what the average results are. I'm not average. So why are we talking about averages dude? You think you're average?! I don't care that a normal brain surgeon needs 10+ years. I could probably become a brain surgeon with 1-2 dedicated years of study 24/7 (ie, as much as possible) and be better than the guy who prepared for 10 years. Not that the corrupt society in which we live would let me legally practice, but I could probably do it.

So the odds are irrelevant to me, because I know they don't apply. I don't expect most people to be able to do what I do.

And hence you are where you are today.
Mediocre performance at best, but better than average. How is it getting to your head so much? That part escapes me.

Basically, I have zero interest to respect social norms, which I guess means you could call me a semi-sociopath.

Unfortunately, we agree on this one. Your projected attitude is scary. How is this helpful to the people on this forum? I am not sure it is. Any chance you are different in real life? That this is your "internet" persona?

I'd hate to be put in a system where I have a boss who is less capable than me. I experienced that all through high-school, and also in University, both of which I've graduated at the very peak of my class. I hate all red tape, all bureaucracy, all inefficiencies.

The Administrators in my view are trying to make the slowlane fast, and in some cases succeeding. However, I don't see that as being the essence of entrepreneurship. The essence of entrepreneurship implies risk and self-reliance, independence from society.

a) You are academically smart, good - don't see how that's relevant.
b) You think this thread is promoting a slow lane and calling it "fast". OK, we disagree.
c) Entrepreneurship isn't "independence from society", it is about helping the society, solving society's problems and getting paid for it.

We continue to disagree on most things. I find that fascinating.

I don't look at a guy who went through med school 10+ years to become a brain surgeon with respect in-so-far as his wealth is concerned. I don't care that he makes $200-300K/year. And I don't care that he buys property like a retard and has $10M+ 10 years down the line. I see him as a coward financially. The same way I don't respect the guy whose family has a business, and they go join that business being a peon there. WTF?! Business is EASY when you have that kinda network. F*ck. You don't need ANY skills to make it work. Even if you sell like a monkey, they will still close, because they know the company, they did business with them before, yadda yadda.

OMG, dude. Most doctors I've met because doctors because that what they wanted to become! Money is a bit of a byproduct. Your judgement is ill placed.

Your hate on people who are born into a family business is weird too. What is your problem? You are wrong. Plenty of people were born into family businesses and ran those into the ground. Nothing about entrepreneurship is easy. It is not meant to be.

Sigh... reading and replying to your post was frustrating. But I felt it was important for the readers of this thread.

 

[Antifragile]

So I'm planning to buy a lambo this summer, and that's mediocre performance huh?

Oh you are planning to buy a lambo? I didn't know. That changes everything

I was talking about different styles of entrepreneurs.

You maybe you are a "pirate"... in a different sense of the word.

A pirate is a person who attacks and robs ships at sea. You may well be: a person who attacks and robs ships at sea.

You are not the same "style" as Steve Jobs, Bill Gates etc. Because Steve Jobs obsessed about the process. He had a vision to make a dent in the universe. You are focused on a few quick bucks. You think a Lambo makes you sound impressive. Or your obsession with "money" and "ruthlessness".

I am here debating you because entrepreneurship doesn't have a different "breed". But humans can and do behave differently. Some have a moral compass, others do not. Some have friends, others do not.

You still failed to show me (in all the hours of blabbering) that my method is "slow lane"! All you did was:
1. Shit on anyone who uses education as a weapon
2. Shit on anyone who's got any kind of unfair advantage (like being born into a business)
3. Shit on anyone chooses experience over "quick buck".

This pattern of your "Look at me me me... ignore the odds, blah blah blah, my high IQ, my top grades..." Unbelievably useless posts from you dude. Just garbage. For a marketing guru with the agency and a "planning to buy a Lambo" you aren't doing a good job at being useful here.

 

[thechosen1]

@Black_Dragon43 I’ve been in your discord, seen your website, and I saw zero evidence of business success. You’ve been doing this for… years, now? But you are “planning” to buy a lambo. Curious.

You are so much smarter than everyone else (as you say over and over) but you have no evidence or proof, just lots of advice and the MUG MAFIA where you constantly tell everyone it’s okay to lie and manipulate to “win” in business. Wow I’d totally buy a course from someone who says that!

Other members have told me they didn’t find it helpful either… and it seems to be your main business… no evidence of any epic drop shipping profits of your own or whatever… just saying.

Last edit: who is going to buy a course from Lucifer? Not me. If anyone is going to rip you off and sell you dog sh!t, the devil is a prime candidate.

 

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[BizyDad]

LOL! And I don’t obsess about process? Is that what you really think?

I think it’s the exact opposite. As a pirate, I need skills to succeed. In fact, it is only skills that can save me, nothing else. There are no “odds” for me to play. As we both agreed already, my odds are tiiiinyyyy. So how can I succeed? Certainly not due to the odds - that’s what YOU count on, not me.

I need to be great at sales, and building websites and creating content and delivering amazing results and and and and. I don’t get to rely on daddy’s network to get million dollar contracts and then use my “leadership” skills to enslave a few people and get it done. Or I don’t get to rely on “connections” I built by licking boots here and there in some jobs to get contracts and access to deals.


Yet, I’m one of the most highly educated people on this forum. I even have research papers published. I can bet I’m top 0.% in terms of that. But somehow I “shit” on education lol


I commented on their lack of skills. it’s true, they don’t have many skills, because why would they? They don’t need skills to succeed. They just need to NOT be idiots. Not being an idiot isn’t a skill.

It simply means you don’t party every night, snort cocaine, get drunk every morning, F*ck bitches etc. that’s what they need to do to succeed, which is not much.

Do you think Donald Trump’s kids for example are highly capable peak performers?! Please…


Oh, this one is most interesting, because I’ve always chosen experience over a quick buck. But I bet somehow it makes sense for you, who knows?

I don’t want “experience” that involves slaving away for retards, or being prevented to perform by politics and red tape. In university I was blessed to have a 200 IQ (ok a bit of an exaggeration but he was a smart guy) chad as a professor, who told us “don’t listen to your bosses, because they will always try to make you feel small and like you have more to learn. In this industry jargon is a weapon, and they will use all sorts of jargon to keep you from rising up”

He passed away in the meantime, but he was spot on. The world isn’t here to make me rich (talking about $100M+). Quite the opposite, the world is better off if I as an individual stay poor. Those OLD MEN want me to keep working and producing for them bro… they don’t want me to take their money and fill up my coffers with it. They want me to think exactly what you are telling me “come work for us, gain experience, then we’ll see about you getting rich”.

In other words, they want to manipulate me in order to exploit my talents for their own purposes, to build their own dreams. And what better way than by trying to make me feel scared and insecure. No thanks. As Lucifer said, NON SERVIAM!

The thread is called Secrets to scaling up. If you want to disagree, at least bring some ideas on how to scale up. Presumably you know how to do so.

And I'm guessing you did it solo, you're not going to be one of those old men who has people under him. So I really want to see some of these mic drop secrets.

At the very least, please don't hijack a good thread to stick your chest out. It just ain't cool.

This is still true. So much I I I me me me.

Do you need a hug bro?

Because I want to be the richest. It's a competition.

As Lucifer said, NON SERVIAM!

Lucifer didn't win. Pirates die. Administrators run the world. Competition over.

 

[BellaPippin]

 

[Black_Dragon43]

The thread is called Secrets to scaling up. If you want to disagree, at least bring some ideas on how to scale up. Presumably you know how to do so.

And I'm guessing you did it solo, you're not going to be one of those old men who has people under him. So I really want to see some of these mic drop secrets.

Ok, let me give you some secrets for scaling brother

1. Stop trying to get 1 customer, think about how you can build a pipeline of 100+ customers over the next year instead.

Most people are in “hunting” mode after their next customer. They chase after people instead of building a system that attracts, nurtures and harvests them. They play a short, not a long frame game. Farming > hunting

2. Sell a transformation, not a service. Don’t be one of those mooches who sells SEO in a pool of 1000 other comlanies. Sell better SERP positions through a proprietary system built around your intellectual property. Then you’re in a category of 1.

3. Your content/marketing should be about PROBLEMS your industry is dealing with, NOT promises or your services. This is another huge mistake beginners make. They talk about seo rank high on google bla bla. Nobody cares. Talk about difficulty of getting visibility. Difficulty of building authority. Increased competition in the industry, whatever the problems are. You shpuld be an expert in the industry you serve over and above an expert in your service.

4. Serve successful winners, NOT losers. Most agencies out there try to serve people with huge problems. But those people are also broke and can’t pay them, AND on top of that will probably not benefit from their service because there’s so much wrong with their business that it takes a lot more to solve it. You need to serve successful customers with complex problems.

5. Don’t sell to unqualified mooches. Make sure they have need, want and money first. If not, put them in your nurturing system until they do. Don’t pitch them like a retard.

6. Everytime you post content, post an ad at the end. Each content piece should be value + ad. Don’t believe the jab jab jab jab jab bullshit. Those people are broke, or so rich they don’t care about money only exposure. If you post 3 value + 1 sales piece, and you post 1/day that means a prospect sees an ad 7 days a month, and that’s praying they see every post you make which isn’t the case! That’s Not enough! They should see that trigger daily, in a way that doesn’t break rapport, hence the value.

7. If you need to speak with your customers, position the FIRST CALL not as a bullshit discovery session, but as obtaining a result for your client that’s specific and valuable. For our clients we offer a 15-min LinkedIn client acquisition audit since that’s what we do for them. That enables you to NOT sell on the first call and focus on building the relationship, delivering value and preparing to close people on the 2nd call if they are qualified. You’ll book a TON more meetings.

Is that enough for now chief?!

If anyone believes I don’t know what I’m talking about and I’m not successful, they’re RETARDED! Sorry, but it’s the truth, and I know how much you hate bullying and love standing up to bullies @BizyDad so no need to get on my head

Btw, can you see how SPECIFIC real advice is? As opposed to motivational vague bullshit “you need to find your unfair advantage” or “begin with the end in mind”

Wtf?! The gurus you guys listen to tell you all that bullshit and you swallow it whole, believing it’s so helpful. “Oh but Gary Ver said it!!” How is that possible? No wonder my clients think they found God when they start working with me.

Why do you think those gurus don’t give you step by step instructions? BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE ANY!! They have no clue why they were successful and how to re-engineer that. So they resort to empty slogans, which you buy simply because they are successful… “there aren’t step by step instructions in business” — no, if you rely on odds and chance to be successful, there certainly are not.

 

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[heavy_industry]

I'm sad to see that such a wonderful thread has degenerated into the Fastlane World War 3.

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with one another, and this is actually a good opportunity for learning. You already know what you know. And perhaps the other person knows something you do not know yet.

But when we disagree with everything on a thread, I think that the best course of action is to start a whole new thread and elaborate our own point of view on the issue at hand. We can use this thread to write a novel, if that's what we want. This way the forum will have multiple threads presenting different ways of viewing the world. We can then use our brain to decide which one of the threads is more valuable, and which one is a more accurate description of how the world works.

Whenever an argument between 2 users gets too heated, more and more users jump on the bandwagon and that's when the shit really hits the fan. That's when we bring in the popcorn.

And the whole purpose of a discussion here is to debate business ideas and figure out the truth, not use this as a means for personal attacks and internet drama. We as fastlaners are above that.

I would like to see better enforced moderation against thread hijacking.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I'm sad to see that such a wonderful thread has degenerated into the Fastlane World War 3.

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with one another, and this is actually a good opportunity for learning. You already know what you know. And perhaps the other person knows something you do not know yet.

But when we disagree with everything on a thread, I think that the best course of action is to start a whole new thread and elaborate our own point of view on the issue at hand. We can use this thread to write a novel, if that's what we want. This way the forum will have multiple threads presenting different ways of viewing the world. We can then use our brain to decide which one of the threads is more valuable, and which one is a more accurate description of how the world works.

Whenever an argument between 2 users gets too heated, more and more users jump on the bandwagon and that's when the shit really hits the fan. That's when we bring in the popcorn.

And the whole purpose of a discussion here is to debate business ideas and figure out the truth, not use this as a means for personal attacks and internet drama. We as fastlaners are above that.

I would like to see better enforced moderation against thread hijacking.

I like your idea, the forum being sort of like the Greek agon where different perspectives duke it out.

I don’t think there is only one right path or one truth. @Antifragile has a valid way. That was the beauty of the Greek agon — all ideas had their place.

I think the problem is when some users take what is said personally and then begin with insults and name calling instead of talking about the ideas. But it’s somewhat inevitable, most human beings don’t separate their ideas from their identity.

 

[thechosen1]

Ummmm you must’ve missed all the screenshots of trades, charts and so on I posted while trading or the updates about my business.

You were in MUG for very little. Max 1-2 weeks. So you hardly had much time.


My main business? Wtf dude? The Discord is something I run for fun. I never started a drop shipping business either, so no clue what you’re talking about there.

Tons of evidence of drop shipping profits for customers and others though — but you’re just jealous, since you rely on mommy and daddy to make your money and probably never saw that $1 million dollar clickfunnels dashboard either. Let’s just tell the truth here buddy. That’s why you’re so sore. And you don't want to believe that a guy who is smart like me and what you'd call rude and arrogant to top it off can be successful. That shouldn't happen right? So you'll do whatever it takes to convince yourself that I'm a failure to prop up your worldview.

Notice how I never tried to discredit any success Antifragile had or may have had. I'm not interested in that, because I'm not insecure about my worldview. I have no problem showing monetary results to you. But I know Antifragile for example does. He's very protective about that, I'm not. I'm an open book. And Antifragile can go on being successful with his philosophy. Not my business. In fact, as I said before, I respect Antifragile. It's true he has the mindset of an old man, but he's clearly a capable guy who has done good things with his life. But you guys on the other hand are almost desperate to discredit me. Why? What does that say about you?

I will tell you the exact reason why you're not more successful today: lack of balls. As you said yourself in MUG "I would never be brave enough to plaster my face on video ads across the internet"

That's exactly why you're not more successful. If you had more balls, you could already do all the things that would make you 100x more successful. I'm telling you because I went through that. Lack of balls will kill you... because let me tell you, the guys you're competing against are absolutely ruthless, some of them are willing to do absolutely ANYTHING to be successful. And they have no shame at all. If you think I'm a HARD guy, you haven't yet seen what's actually out there. How some of the "gurus" are in real life.


Please, join the server and show where I ever said that. I never encouraged anyone to be unethical, I simply said ethics and success are separate. And sometimes being good doesn't lead to success, a sacrifice you need to be willing to make to be good. Which is absolutely true. You don’t need to be ethical to be successful, lots of unethical people are very successful.

Only a naive person would believe that only good guys win, when literarily the whole world is an example of just the opposite. It’s not my fault that that irked you the wrong way and you left. To be successful you need to be aware of these truths and capable to deal with them. Not put your hands over your eyes and ears and pretend you live in fairy land.

In fact, if GOOD = SUCCESS, then we wouldn't need any morality. People would just treat each other well because it maximises success, not because it is good. But these are clearly two very different categories.

Funny how you LOVE ethics, but keep spreading misinformation about me. Must be highly ethical. Perhaps you are one of those people who believes it’s OK to be unethical with people they personally see as unethical in the first place.

Screenshots of trades and charts… right… you have no idea what I have done, but I can be a lot more specific than you and have shown users here actual photos of houses I’ve flipped and renovated (without “daddy’s money”) and the product I’ve designed, imported and sold wholesale to numerous retailers.

The only advantage I’ve gotten so far from my family has been knowledge. I do not own that business in any way shape or form - I only *own* the things I have started myself, which I can actually show other users and detail.

I'm sad to see that such a wonderful thread has degenerated into the Fastlane World War 3.

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with one another, and this is actually a good opportunity for learning. You already know what you know. And perhaps the other person knows something you do not know yet.

But when we disagree with everything on a thread, I think that the best course of action is to start a whole new thread and elaborate our own point of view on the issue at hand. We can use this thread to write a novel, if that's what we want. This way the forum will have multiple threads presenting different ways of viewing the world. We can then use our brain to decide which one of the threads is more valuable, and which one is a more accurate description of how the world works.

Whenever an argument between 2 users gets too heated, more and more users jump on the bandwagon and that's when the shit really hits the fan. That's when we bring in the popcorn.

And the whole purpose of a discussion here is to debate business ideas and figure out the truth, not use this as a means for personal attacks and internet drama. We as fastlaners are above that.

I would like to see better enforced moderation against thread hijacking.

That’s just the nature of older forum-type websites. BD comes on here with one of the first posts, ripping AF, and derails the thread.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

Screenshots of trades and charts… right… you have no idea what I have done, but I can be a lot more specific than you and have shown users here actual photos of houses I’ve flipped and renovated (without “daddy’s money”) and the product I’ve designed, imported and sold wholesale to numerous retailers.

The only advantage I’ve gotten so far from my family has been knowledge. I do not own that business in any way shape or form - I only *own* the things I have started myself, which I can actually show other users and detail.

I said based on what you have posted and commented on, at least last year when I followed your content while you were in MUG. Congrats for your achievements so far, I hope you'll be even more successful than you are today in the future

 

[Antifragile]

Fine.

BlackDrafon you are the best.

All men want to be you. All women want to be with you.

everyone should buy your course now. Call 1-800-kick-me

But wait, there is more. If you call in the next hour… you’ll get a free mug. Buy now and regret your life choices twice as much later! Hurry!

——

@heavy_industry is right on. It’s. Huge ask, but could @Andy Black help moderate and clean Ip this thread? could you move our BD vs AF garage posts to a separate thread? Ideally in the landfill …

 

[AnNvr]

I believe there are two kinds of entrepreneurs...

Jordan Belfort

Are you kidding, aren't you?

 

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[Lex DeVille]

To be clear, I'm a supervillain, not a pirate.

Almost a doctor.

Now, can anyone tell me if WEF is worth it? Thinking about joining, but can't tell if they're real supervillains or just regular villains who talk big. Reviews by real members only, please!

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Your take has been extracted into its own thread.

 

[Kevin88660]

I said based on what you have posted and commented on, at least last year when I followed your content while you were in MUG. Congrats for your achievements so far, I hope you'll be even more successful than you are today in the future

I think the whole argument is not about working for old men or start out on you own, but rather working in old industry vs new industry.

Old industries don’t grow fast because of capacity fulfillment by generations of people. Grabbing land with a gun with your bro is best when U.S. was still as large as 13 colonies.

Sometimes in the future software will not be a sunset industry as everything that is not run an app today is already running on apps by then.

That’s why you see powerful countries pouring money into space research and EV.

That is why you see microsoft and Google battling over AI. How many more softwares can MS sell? How much more ads revenue can youtube and google search bring in?

Fastlane chance just higher in younger industries.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

I think the whole argument is not about working for old men or start out on you own, but rather working in old industry vs new industry.

Old industries don’t grow fast because of capacity fulfillment by generations of people. Grabbing land with a gun with your bro is best when U.S. was still as large as 13 colonies.

Sometimes in the future software will not be a sunset industry as everything that is not run an app today is already running on apps by then.

That’s why you see powerful countries pouring money into space research and EV.

That is why you see microsoft and Google battling over AI. How many more softwares can MS sell? How much more ads revenue can youtube and google search bring in?

Fastlane chance just higher in younger industries.

Good post, that is certainly part of the reason. But there's another thing...

New industries have not been monopolized and bureaucratized yet.

Meaning it is still the wild west.

No red tape, lobbying and such activity is going on. No old-timers to deal with.

There are so many safety regulations for example a car manufacturer has to respect today, that didn't exist 100 years ago when cars were first made.

This pretty much guarantees that it's almost impossible to start a new company in the car market, unless you have very deep pockets.

As I said originally, the ruling powers have no interest in you getting rich. Established industries tend to be their playground already.

 

[BizyDad]

Ok, let me give you some secrets for scaling brother

1. Stop trying to get 1 customer, think about how you can build a pipeline of 100+ customers over the next year instead.

Most people are in “hunting” mode after their next customer. They chase after people instead of building a system that attracts, nurtures and harvests them. They play a short, not a long frame game. Farming > hunting

2. Sell a transformation, not a service. Don’t be one of those mooches who sells SEO in a pool of 1000 other comlanies. Sell better SERP positions through a proprietary system built around your intellectual property. Then you’re in a category of 1.

3. Your content/marketing should be about PROBLEMS your industry is dealing with, NOT promises or your services. This is another huge mistake beginners make. They talk about seo rank high on google bla bla. Nobody cares. Talk about difficulty of getting visibility. Difficulty of building authority. Increased competition in the industry, whatever the problems are. You shpuld be an expert in the industry you serve over and above an expert in your service.

4. Serve successful winners, NOT losers. Most agencies out there try to serve people with huge problems. But those people are also broke and can’t pay them, AND on top of that will probably not benefit from their service because there’s so much wrong with their business that it takes a lot more to solve it. You need to serve successful customers with complex problems.

5. Don’t sell to unqualified mooches. Make sure they have need, want and money first. If not, put them in your nurturing system until they do. Don’t pitch them like a retard.

6. Everytime you post content, post an ad at the end. Each content piece should be value + ad. Don’t believe the jab jab jab jab jab bullshit. Those people are broke, or so rich they don’t care about money only exposure. If you post 3 value + 1 sales piece, and you post 1/day that means a prospect sees an ad 7 days a month, and that’s praying they see every post you make which isn’t the case! That’s Not enough! They should see that trigger daily, in a way that doesn’t break rapport, hence the value.

7. If you need to speak with your customers, position the FIRST CALL not as a bullshit discovery session, but as obtaining a result for your client that’s specific and valuable. For our clients we offer a 15-min LinkedIn client acquisition audit since that’s what we do for them. That enables you to NOT sell on the first call and focus on building the relationship, delivering value and preparing to close people on the 2nd call if they are qualified. You’ll book a TON more meetings.

Is that enough for now chief?!

If anyone believes I don’t know what I’m talking about and I’m not successful, they’re RETARDED! Sorry, but it’s the truth, and I know how much you hate bullying and love standing up to bullies @BizyDad so no need to get on my head

Btw, can you see how SPECIFIC real advice is? As opposed to motivational vague bullshit “you need to find your unfair advantage” or “begin with the end in mind”

Wtf?! The gurus you guys listen to tell you all that bullshit and you swallow it whole, believing it’s so helpful. “Oh but Gary Ver said it!!” How is that possible? No wonder my clients think they found God when they start working with me.

Why do you think those gurus don’t give you step by step instructions? BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE ANY!! They have no clue why they were successful and how to re-engineer that. So they resort to empty slogans, which you buy simply because they are successful… “there aren’t step by step instructions in business” — no, if you rely on odds and chance to be successful, there certainly are not.

There is good knowledge and value here. Thank you for taking the time and for personalizing it to my business.

I think a slightly more generalized take would also be helpful for readers. Maybe it's own thread, or maybe as a response here. Just to get other people's wheels turning.

I think the breaking up of the threads was a great idea. Thanks @heavy_industry for thinking of it, and @MJ DeMarco for executing on it.

I'm a little pressed for time today, but I can add more later.

 

[biophase]

Ummm... I make $25-30K/mo profit these days, and I'm just as desperate as I was 12 years ago when I was broke. $25-30K/mo is what a good wage per YEAR is where I'm from. If you're not desperate, you're losing. Why would you not be desperate?

So, I read the first thread and saw it was split, so I was curious as to why.

I don't know much about you @Black Dragon. But your replies kind of baffle me in this thread. In fact, it makes me question alot of stuff you've written in the past.

I mean is $30k/mo supposed to be a flex in this forum? Normally, I'd say yes, that is a great amount to be making. But when put in context with the rest of what you've written, it's kind of a failure isn't it? That's why I just don't get it.

If you said this to me I'd laugh at you. I'd tell you I want $10M in 2 years,

Do you see how the $30k/mo looks really odd now, after you've said this? Are you laughing at yourself?

OK, but what are the compromises you have to make? I have full freedom as things stand now. I can always start a business that make $5K+/mo from scratch in 1 month flat. I have invested massively in myself. I can sell like a pro, I know how to market & create powerful content, I know how to hire & manage people and do it cheaply, I know how to create & sell info products, I know how to coach, I know how to build & edit a website, and everything about it. I can bet that your web designer doesn't know as much as I do (for example, I use .htaccess files to improve security for my website, I know of almost no web developer who can do that), and the list can go on.

I created all this by investing in myself, and going on my own from the very beginning. I am an absolute master at my business. I could've made more money until now if I wanted to skip a few steps and just hire others, but I wanted to invest in myself.

All this knowledge and $30k/mo?

In the process I got to know her. Complete retard who knows next to NOTHING about marketing. Her expertise is taking credit, manipulation, and obedience. And yet she had Coca Cola working with her agency… can you imagine that? The retards at Coca Cola are throwing that money out the window, not because she has any great capabilities, but because she’s safe… obedient, approved by the Stooges, and so on.

When you think everyone else is an idiot. It could be that they all know something that you don't.

I want to add that huge companies like to hire other huge and well known companies. A company like Coke cannot risk hiring a small firm. There's too much on the line for them and especially the person that makes the decision. A large firm can F*ck up and change personnel and ultimately deliver a product. I've worked for many corporations that hired the Big 3 consultants to come in. It was always a slow process. A fly by night 5 person company would sometimes get an interview. But they were never picked because it was too risky. That's why small companies get hired by small companies and eventually grow and grow and get hired by large ones when they've "made it".

Can you imagine if I ran the marketing for Coca Cola? I’d get parents pouring coke down the throats of their kids!!

I'd imagine you'd get them to whopping five figures a month. Ok, sorry I'm just ragging on you now.

So I'm planning to buy a lambo this summer, and that's mediocre performance huh?

Real ballers, say I'm buying a lambo tomorrow. They don't need to plan such a low cost purchase.

If I wanted better odds, I would have taken my civil engineering degree from what was (maybe still is) the number 1 university for it, and went into real estate or banking.

Hey, I have a civil engineering degree from the #1 school. You went to Illinois?

Experience has taught me that most people who talk this way and full of . This is why I now question everything you've posted in the past now.

 

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[NeoDialectic]

Yikes.

Most people find it off-putting to get into public pissing contests or comparing member sizes to figure out who's right/wrong. But it usually turns out ok as long as you can back up the bluster with some real brawn.

Ummm... I make $25-30K/mo profit these days

Big miss here. You should be proud of the salary you are making. In most contexts, it is a great feat. But this forum isn't most contexts.

Imagine someone telling you he unlocked the secret to wealth. He starts telling you that you're doing it all wrong and if you want to be wealthy like him you have to do as he does. Then you find out his definition of wealth is 60k a year in engineering. That's you right now in other people's eyes.

If you're going to throw around achievements in an attempt to bolster authority versus someone else, you better be sure you're on the more impressive side..... @Antifragile doesn't disclose his income, but it should be clear that you guys aren't playing in the same order of magnitude.....

"You come at the king, you best not miss."

If you said this to me I'd laugh at you. I'd tell you I want $10M in 2 years, NOT F*cking having a specialized education and having to still start my business. Like WTF?! I wanna make money dude. I don't wanna jack off dreaming about building & selling small buildings for two years and only then start my company... If you want me to get started with those buildings show me how to get the cash for it - how to build connections with investors, how to convince them I'm a big chad who will make them boatloads of money, how to have supreme confidence, etc. etc.


If you know you won't F*ck it up, you're not thinking big enough dude. It should be so big you're almost sure you'll F*ck it up, and then you let the desperation inside you power you through everything so that you make it all a great success for everyone involved.


That will take months to start. I wanna make money NOW dude... Not invest in something that may or may not pay off months down the line

This is how most entrepreneurs fail... complex ideas, where the payoff is far into the future. Why are we even talking about PayPal and eBay?! Trying to start PayPal or eBay is a recipe for failure. So many stars have to align, I can almost bet that you'll go broke.

You need simple ideas. Import tea from china. Sell to local coffee shops. SIMPLE! You go out, and you test it in 1-2 weeks max. WTF is this complicated shit, make a stroller, bla bla bla. I'll go crazy by the time the stroller is finished... literarily!

This is why I love e-commerce and internet business. You can make money, and lots of it, instantly. I've had clients who started an agency, signed up to work with me, 1-year later they were bringing in $1M+ in business. That's virtually impossible to achieve with offline businesses, unless you already have connections, or are able to develop those connections QUICKLY. Like Dan Pena teaches.

What Dan Pena teaches, that's along the lines of highly effective. F*ck, make $10M in 1 year, not 5 dude. Pick up the phone, call after old farts who are on their death bed, arrange with banks and other successful businesspeople to buy their company using bank money, etc. etc.

That's how you make big money, and you do it FAST.

If a business doesn't make you money fast, just close it.

Don't even think of complicated things.

Start with simple stuff.

That's my advice.

I typically agree that a good way to start is by keeping things simple and goal-oriented (make a sale as fast as possible). But that advice is very much goal specific. In his example, he is talking about playing a different, and bigger, game than you. I've taken heat myself suggesting that playing a bigger game may not be for everyone. But it's not slowlane to play a bigger game.

AF didn't say you HAVE TO become a RE mogul. But since he is in RE, it makes sense if the examples he uses are in RE. It probably takes more boots on the ground type of experience and real life handshaking to become a successful RE developer. Do you doubt this may take 2 years to get? If not, then why are you fighting so passionately against his EXAMPLE.

Look, I get it. Your concern is probably that putting space between the time you decide to be an entrepreneur and the first dollar hitting your pockets increases the change of someone failing to actually start. More people action fake than actually following through. It's the same reason I usually press hard on people to work towards a sale or testing the markets asap. But different businesses require different strategies. If someone wants to become capable of orchestrating a bridge being built, why would you dissuade that! Someone's gotta build our bridges!

You could have aired the same grievance while accomplishing more by saying the following

"Hey Antifragile, when playing these longer games, how do you recommend people keep the ultimate goal in mind and not stray back to the familiar slowlane? Everyone won't get wake up calls from billionaires and in fact most people are surrounded by slowlaners that will push them back. This is why I prefer keeping things simple and action-focused in my advice. But if someone was to play a game that requires longer forethought and planning, how can he stack his deck to ensure he remains committed?"

Weird statement. You and I are so different! How are you desperate if all your financial needs (not wants, needs) are well covered?



Ironically, my method seems to make people more money. We debated this too much already, to sum up:

My priorities are in this order: 1) Family, 2) Health, 3) Business - and 3 supports 1 and 2. Your priorities are "money". You and I will never see eye to eye on this and we don't need to. Readers should know, this distinction.



You do that. It sometimes works in the tech sector, from what I understand. But in the "old school" business like mine, you would never even be remembered. You'd fail, lose money and become a but a distant memory.

Those who come off like you aren't respected because everyone knows the type. All hype, not substance. Spark but no lasting fire.



Reading this I am glad you are running some marketing agency and not building housing. To imagine that I could live in a place that was built by a desperate no experience guy who wanted to "F*ck it up" just to know he's pushing boundaries...

Let me rephrase. In tech, you can fail fast, it's even called "fail fast". But in real estate, you can't build a high-rise, tear it down and say "based on consumer feedback, we'll now reprogram it this way". You can't do it even with small buildings!

But with experience, knowledge, team... you can build a massive empire of a company.



Jeff Bezos - Amazon. No earnings for decades. Hmmm...

The crazy part is how your original post didn't chastise starting small at all. I started thinking that our discussions may have even nudged you into being a little less derisive toward it! Haha.

You even left room for people to feel ok about freelancing if they must.

So I'm not sure why BD dug into you so hard.

No. For one, you'll struggle in your e-commerce just like any other business. Just read @fastlane_dad and @NeoDialectic stories. They didn't make bank "instantly". Took a long while for their exit.

Agreed. Except for "gambling" type ventures or extreme luck, I think it's inescapable.

I would say that in the short term, our actions weren't wildly different than BD's principles. If you zoom in at any point in the first half of our career, we prioritized getting a market signal and "just starting" over long-term plays and planning. But if you zoom out and look at a birds-eye view of our story, it starts looking exactly like your steps on scaling!

This is why I don't even see most of BD's actionable advice as contradictory to yours. It just comes off as being disagreeable for it's own sake. The big disagreement is in planning or length of games being played and that could be discussed without the venom!

That's why I created this thread. It is to show there is another way. A "long game" way. To accept that great things in life take time to build. It is a far more effective (better odds) way.

People who chase quick bucks and fail to hit their targets - typically get comfortably numb. Make just enough money to be OK, but not enough to get to another level. Focus on money only is a bad idea, I say focus on your customer needs/wants. What problem are you solving?

My advice will be less popular than yours. Because I say: invest in yourself. It is hard work. It is frustrating because it takes time. But by the time you are done, even if you needed a "job", it would be a 7 figure salary. And by the way, my "slow" way, gives you wealth in 10 years flat almost guaranteed. The odds are insanely good that you'll be killing it.

I don't disagree, but man that is a tough sell to most younger people. I think the only way to get buy-in is to make sure they realize that there are victories along the way.

I didn't exit my business until 15 years or so after becoming an entrepreneur. But I hit financial freedom years before that. Years before that I was able to afford an exotic car and nice vacations. Before that it was nice sports cars and eating wherever I wanted. Before that it was financial independence. Etc... @fastlane_dad 's post from a few months ago specifically mentioned how excited he was just making an engineer's salary, and that was at the very start of our journey. So it's not like you have to suffer with your head in the sand for a decade.

It seems like BD loses site of this. Thinking in your advice that the 2 years you recommend spending learning or working to specialize is some kind of prison sentence.

Because I want to be the richest. It's a competition. If I was a tennis player I'd be desperate to be number 1 in the world too.


Yes I know, which is why those industries are hard. I honestly look at them as being slowlane. You'll be a millionaire in your late 30s, early 40s.

It is possible to do it otherwise, but you need to approach it Dan Pena style, and find desperate people who are willing to work with you or sell to you.


Why would I be responsible for making sure it doesn't collapse? That's the job of the structural engineer & architect who design it + the construction company who builds it. There are building codes that pretty much make it impossible for such things to occur, ignoring gross negligence now. My job is to hire those people and crack the whip so they do a good job. Dan Pena started in a traditional industry, oil. He made $100M+ before he even learned that oil and gas don't come up the same pipeline.


Yes, I don't disagree. There are struggles, but at least you're making visible progress. You're at $10K/mo quite quickly, you can see there's potential, so that keeps you excited. My business grew this month by 12 clients already... That means $9K in top line revenue, recurring, month after month. If it's let's say your 3rd month running your agency, and you're bringing in consistently $4.5K+/mo of revenue, that's progress, growth, something solid that you can build on.

I'd much rather do that, then spend all that time designing a stroller, and not being sure that I'll make bank.


Is it really? I really don't feel it is. I feel it's sort of like wait years, and PRAY you get lucky.


I agree. But for me, focusing on money = focusing on customers. It's like we're playing tennis. Focusing on winning = focusing on my form & strategy. Those two are related, not separate.


OK, but what are the compromises you have to make? I have full freedom as things stand now. I can always start a business that make $5K+/mo from scratch in 1 month flat. I have invested massively in myself. I can sell like a pro, I know how to market & create powerful content, I know how to hire & manage people and do it cheaply, I know how to create & sell info products, I know how to coach, I know how to build & edit a website, and everything about it. I can bet that your web designer doesn't know as much as I do (for example, I use .htaccess files to improve security for my website, I know of almost no web developer who can do that), and the list can go on.

I created all this by investing in myself, and going on my own from the very beginning. I am an absolute master at my business. I could've made more money until now if I wanted to skip a few steps and just hire others, but I wanted to invest in myself.

And I'm always investing in myself. Just recently I did Andy's Google Ads course + Isaac Rudansky's Google Ads Course (over 30 hours). I listened to them in 2 days, it's 30 hours of content. Can you imagine doing that on top of all your usual work? I really punish myself and push myself all the time to get better, grow and expand my skillset.

All I'm trying to say is that I have complete freedom in my business. I don't answer to anyone. If I don't want to work with someone, I don't. If I want to stop working with someone, I do. I don't think you have the same sort of freedom. I know local people here who are into real estate and developments. The people I know come from a background in banking, working for some of the large banks before starting. They are old, "boring" business people. They have to go to all sorts of networking events, they have to do entertain all sorts of people at their houses, and so on. If they had to do what I have to do, they wouldn't survive for a single day, because all their skills are high level - managing people. But, if you were to take me and put me in one of their places, I could do just fine.

So I am a believer in investing in yourself. But I'm also a believer in freedom & independence.

This reminds me of the time when I was 16 and trying to convince my dad that I must be a better driver than him. Once you get the skill down, alot of driving comes down to physical performance. Visual acuity, mental processing speed, reaction speed, etc. His stats were no match to mine! He replied that I have a long ways to go till I can drive better than him as he simply has the experience and foresight to avoid those types of situations. I intellectually understood was he was saying..... But it took me many years until I actually fully processed the gravity of his point.

You are obviously a smart guy and a hard worker. No one is challenging this. But your ego could be blinding you. My first go to card, when I see this pattern of behavior, is usually "ahhh he's young, he will get it some day". I hated it when someone told me that, so I suspect you will to. But who knows, maybe one day you will look back and go "hmmm"

You are successful in your own right, but if you applied your work ethic espoused 6 years ago :

I know that sounds hard to believe for many of you. But I work 24/7 (literarily). I even eat while working. I never go out to party / relax, I haven't met a friend for months probably. My day consists in work, fitness training, reading and sleep. A trick that really helped me learn so fast, is that I watch all tutorials and video material at 2x the speed, and use an ultra-fast gaming mouse. This really shortens the learning curve, great for you if you are HIGHLY motivated and ambitious. If you guys need recommendations for learning material, courses, etc. just let me know, and I'll gladly provide you!

I am a serious and highly ambitious person. My dream is to be able to make a LOT of money (I do want to be the richest I can be) and then use it to truly make a difference for my country.

in the type of longer game that @Antifragile pushes, you have been even more wildly successful by now or on your way to growing something a lot bigger. Ironically, your work ethic and stamina make you much more suitable to building something BIG! When I disagree with AF and Kak, it is usually on the grounds of not wanting to do certain things and not wanting to work as hard for as long. (oversimplification) Asking you to work long and hard sounds like threatening you with a good time!

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Big miss here. You should be proud of the salary you are making. In most contexts, it is a great feat. But this forum isn't most contexts.

Imagine someone telling you he unlocked the secret to wealth. He starts telling you that you're doing it all wrong and if you want to be wealthy like him you have to do as he does. Then you find out his definition of wealth is 60k a year in engineering. That's you right now in other people's eyes.

If you're going to throw around achievements in an attempt to bolster authority versus someone else, you better be sure you're on the more impressive side..... @Antifragile doesn't disclose his income, but it should be clear that you guys aren't playing in the same order of magnitude.....

"You come at the king, you best not miss."

Well, @Antifragile may very well make more than I do... but he's also probably around 2x as old as I am. Point being that if you want to get rich while you're in your 20s, what @Antifragile advised is probably not the right path for you. Ask @Antifragile how much he was making when he was 27 for example - he was probably making $60K in a YEAR, not in a month LOL!

And this isn't just about financial wealth - it's also about being able to do what you want, how you want, while having as few dependencies on others as possible. @Antifragile may be making $5-10M/year now but he has to wine and dine the banker, keep up with the municipality that approves building permits, maintain his image in the street etc.

I don't have to wine and dine anyone. Literarily. I don't need to travel anywhere, please anyone, be careful what I say, and so on. I don't need to go to any office. And I don't have to do anything apart from hop on sales calls, help clients, build the team, and create amazing content.

So I have a rich life.

If you want to have a rich life while young you need to find a way to provide value at scale. The big boys don't want to let you provide value at scale. That's why, for example, if I want to be a lawyer => go to law school, slave away for X years before you can go out on your own, and so on. The whole charade, right?

So, like it or not, today that means the internet. Especially becoming an influencer on the internet and building an audience. I'm a very small, tiny influencer at the moment. But my clients all love working with me, get value from my advice and my services, and I've even become great friends with many of them.

So with a team of 6 people right now I can serve ~50 clients (and thousands if you count all my products, newsletter,etc.), all of whom I have personally interacted with, some of whom I'm very good friends with.

So what would you rather do? Invest 10-15 years of your life so you can be a millionaire when you're 40, or live rich in your 20s? You should work very hard, on things that are actually aligned with the life you want.

I finished my involvement with my previous agency around 2 years ago. In 2 years I've built an entirely new business that brings in $50K+/mo. My previous agency sometimes did more, but profit margin was much much lower. And we can scale much farther once I put a solid team for all parts in place.

Do you realize that for me, there is NO GATEKEEPER I have to please. No investor I have to answer to. No banker who can cut my credit and ruin me. The internet is the key to riches, when you will finally learn how to master it. The trouble is most people are too busy "building a career" trying to make money as you used to make it 100 years ago and can't take advantage of the greatest wealth creation vehicle around.

So "thinking bigger" for many people here simply refers to thinking bigger financially. Sure... if you start the next Facebook, you could become a billionaire even 5 years down the road right? But... much bigger chances of failure, and you risk being a lot more tied up and entangled than otherwise. Or you go into real estate and slave away for others for 10+ years. Maybe they'll give you a shot at starting your own company then, right? I wouldn't personally want to trade places with Elon Musk, even if he's a lot "richer" financially than I am.

 

[Isaac Odongo]

I think it all boils down to what one values. Philosophy and the like.

People are different. They enjoy different things. They value different things. For different reasons.

What matters most is living by ones values, provided those values point North.

Provided those values help one achieve Fastlane goals and dreams. Provided they are Unscripted values.

And if one solves people's problems. That's even better. Doesn't necessarily make one happier, but solves people's problems.

 

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[Isaac Odongo]

Or you go into real estate and slave away for others for 10+ years.

By the way how long does @Envision take to get up there? He does really big.

 

[Antifragile]

@Black_Dragon43
You are a very successful young man. You should be proud of yourself and I wish you only the best for the rest of your life.

I don’t talk numbers for a reason. There is always someone richer and poorer than you. It’s a scoreboard game but ultimately means less than people think. Because we agree, it’s about choices and desires.

Since you’ve mentioned my name here a dozen times, I’ll just say
• I don’t consider going to office a bad thing. I love seeing my 2nd space and watching how our team takes amazing real estate projects a reality
• I enjoy meeting successful people, some of them invest with me. One person because a close family friend, yet for over a decade we didn’t do any business together. You have no idea how great I feel when some of these people I look up to say “Do you take new investors?” That’s not a burden, I don’t “wine and dine them” - I enjoy their company! I’m lucky enough to have met them, learn from them … I don’t know about you, but it really makes my day when I connect to other human beings in a positive way. (I just don’t like crowds, it’s the introvert in me.)
• Having a professional image isn’t a burden you describe either. It’s more in line with who I am… so dressing well, even when being casual is great.
• Politicians can be a hard sell, but I love a good challenge. They are humans too, they have problems like all of us. And working with them while my personal political views may be opposite to some of them is like climbing Mt Everest. Some hate it (like you) and others enjoy the journey.
• lastly, I would trade places with Elon Musk in a heartbeat. Because I don’t see entrepreneurship as only a means to retirement, but as a thing I enjoy in itself and therefore I don’t want it to end. @NeoDialectic and I debated this often and he’s right. We just have different desires from life. All of us do.

And since this is the forum for such discussions… we discuss different methods and examples… and experiences.

It’s all good. Keep crushing it!