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Best sort of sales job for experience?

LiveEntrepreneur

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True story...

I'm working with a friend who was recently made redundant. He's been a career salesman for over 25 years, and the last few years he was on contracts with the company he worked for instead of being on their payroll.

One day he said to me "But you're not a salesman Andy". He proceeded to tell me of all the books he'd read, courses he'd taken, and companies he'd worked for as a salesman.

"I don't want to be a salesman though", I told my friend. I'm a business owner. I'm a peer. I make sales because I'm *not* a salesman in their eyes. Sure, you could argue that I'm just better at not being salesy, but it took a while for him to get what I was talking about. I kept telling him to just "chat" with people. He now loves that. He's having to deprogram himself from a lot of the stuff he's read and been trained to do, and relearn how to just have a chat.

You already know how to chat to people. Don't over-complicate it.

Another thing... he's not on my payroll. I'm paying him as a freelancer, and he's having to learn a lot of the mindsets and lessons that a business owner (should) have.

There's a few threads where people ask "What's the best skill to have if you want to grow a successful business?". Often people answer with "Sales". I keep answering with "the skill of growing successful businesses". I'm not being pedantic. My friend might have better sales skills than me (although I'm making more sales than him so go figure), but I've got better business skills than him. Who's going to grow a business better?
Interesting story. You will make the better sales I guess because like you said your business skills are better. I'll try not to over complicate but lately I've realized how complicated life really is, so it's hard not to lol. I have a question then, as a day job what do you think is the best thing to do? I have looked at some startups, inbound sales, etc. I don't think there is any sort of job to help me grow my "business skills". The only thing that I can think of is working for a company even like an outbound sales job and asking the boss for more responsibility that relates more to running the business.
 
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Kevin88660

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I think you should not have a mindset of doing a sales job to learn something.

If you want to learn business skills you should do a business and learn along the way. You can find a mentor in business. Sales skill is only a part of business.

If you find running a business too risky and for whatever reason do not like to run a business (worry about employees, tax, marketing and PRODUCT.) but you want to make money than an average 9-5 sales job, a sales job is ideal.

Sales job in its essense, is for people who want to become millionaire without having to own a business.
 

LuckyPup

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Yeah I understand the selling is everywhere part, reading Grant Cardone's book a while ago made me realize that. The reason I want a sale job, everyone has said learn sales. I looked into the "why" and it makes sense to me. You need to be able to sell the product that you have because your product isn't so good that it will just sell it self. I also feel at my current job I am not getting anything out of it, the pay is great and taking a sale job I'll lose quite a bit of money, but I think sales just makes sense.

What recommendation do you have?

To answer the question above the end goal in life is to become a millionaire. And the second question, how does learning to sell help me reach my goals? Well I believe it helps because some day I'll have a product or service I think in order to get people buying what you have you will need to learn to convince people. And like you said everything is sales, when I go to promote my product, all the words I use, the copy I use, etc. Sales is going to come into the picture here. I believe getting that experience will help me in these areas, at least indirectly. Correct me if this is wrong.
First, learn how to set goals. "Becoming a millionaire" isn't a goal, it's a dream. A goal would be, "I want to net X dollars per year by X date, via a business that provides X product or service to X market." Obviously, you determine what X is.

Second, learning how to sell can be valuable, but it seems you're putting the cart before the horse. If you want to get into sales because you think you'll enjoy it or a sales job seems better than what you're doing now, then go for it. But I think you're making a mistake in getting into sales simply because you've "heard" it's a "good skill" that "might" serve you well as you pursue a nebulous, poorly defined dream of becoming a millionaire.

My advice, aside from learning to set (SMART) goals? Learn something for a reason. If, after searching for and finding a need in the marketplace, you find that you must have a skill or resource to fulfill that need, then acquire that skill or resource. Better yet, outsource it.

As I asked in my first response, what is your Why? Having a clear why will help to determine your how, what, where and when.

Not trying to be harsh, but if your goal is to become a millionaire, then you're asking the wrong questions.
 
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LiveEntrepreneur

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First, learn how to set goals. "Becoming a millionaire" isn't a goal, it's a dream. A goal would be, "I want to net X dollars per year by X date, via a business that provides X product or service to X market." Obviously, you determine what X is.

Second, learning how to sell can be valuable, but it seems you're putting the cart before the horse. If you want to get into sales because you think you'll enjoy it or a sales job seems better than what you're doing now, then go for it. But I think you're making a mistake in getting into sales simply because you've "heard" it's a "good skill" that "might" serve you well as you pursue a nebulous, poorly defined dream of becoming a millionaire.

My advice, aside from learning to set (SMART) goals? Learn something for a reason. If, after searching for and finding a need in the marketplace, you find that you must have a skill or resource to fulfill that need, then acquire that skill or resource. Better yet, outsource it.

As I asked in my first response, what is your Why? Having a clear why will help to determine your how, what, where and when.

Not trying to be harsh, but if your goal is to become a millionaire, then you're asking the wrong questions.
Im not getting a sales job to become a millionare. Im getting it to build a useful skill. With specfic by goal is 10 million by age of 30. Ive read smart goals not sure how much i agree with it and goal setting in general. Reason is, i think you cant really control whether you make 2 or 5 million. I guess indirectly you can. Say you got a company that makes 1m per year. What difference does it make if u say i want to make 10m this year or 20m? Isnt the goal just to make as much as possible and what happends happends? I might be wrong though.

Remember i gotta work some kind of a job. What do you think would be the best use of time for a person who eventually wants to grow a successful business?
 

LuckyPup

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Im not getting a sales job to become a millionare. Im getting it to build a useful skill.
Maybe it's the language barrier, but you missed my point completely. In fact, I think you missed every point I made. Good luck.
 
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Kevin88660

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Im not getting a sales job to become a millionare. Im getting it to build a useful skill. With specfic by goal is 10 million by age of 30. Ive read smart goals not sure how much i agree with it and goal setting in general. Reason is, i think you cant really control whether you make 2 or 5 million. I guess indirectly you can. Say you got a company that makes 1m per year. What difference does it make if u say i want to make 10m this year or 20m? Isnt the goal just to make as much as possible and what happends happends? I might be wrong though.

Remember i gotta work some kind of a job. What do you think would be the best use of time for a person who eventually wants to grow a successful business?
Unless you are very young, it is not worth your time to do something to learn a skill and then switch to something else. If you want to grow a busienss eventually you should go start a business.

You can find a mentor in business and there are many people here who can give you good advice.

In sales it is different, we have no control over the product or service. We are just finding people who are willing to pay for it.
 

LiveEntrepreneur

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If im understanding correctly the main point you were making is having a strong why? I think ive covered that. Am i missing something?
Maybe it's the language barrier, but you missed my point completely. In fact, I think you missed every point I made. Good luck.
 

LiveEntrepreneur

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Unless you are very young, it is not worth your time to do something to learn a skill and then switch to something else. If you want to grow a busienss eventually you should go start a business.

You can find a mentor in business and there are many people here who can give you good advice.

In sales it is different, we have no control over the product or service. We are just finding people who are willing to pay for it.
So i am doing business already sfter work/spare time but as a job itself is what im referring to.
 
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Kevin88660

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So i am doing business already sfter work/spare time but as a job itself is what im referring to.
Ok I get it.

If your business is your top priority (and to put me in your situation) I will be looking at a job that can pay me well hourly without draining too much of my mental energy for the business.

I just need it to pay my bills without killing my energy for the business. Probably I need to look at my existing skill sets to get a match. i wont be looking at “learning a new trade” because that's tiring and you need at least six month to familiarise with a new industry+ New company.
 

Andy Black

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Interesting story. You will make the better sales I guess because like you said your business skills are better. I'll try not to over complicate but lately I've realized how complicated life really is, so it's hard not to lol. I have a question then, as a day job what do you think is the best thing to do? I have looked at some startups, inbound sales, etc. I don't think there is any sort of job to help me grow my "business skills". The only thing that I can think of is working for a company even like an outbound sales job and asking the boss for more responsibility that relates more to running the business.
Depends on your situation of course.

I’ve loved providing a service to multiple business owners. I learn from them just by serving them.

If it’s your bag then look at working in a digital marketing agency, or skipping that step and getting digital marketing clients.

Get one for free for the first few months, then pick them up at $250/mth.
 

Andy Black

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I agree with people saying *not* to have a goal to “learn”.

Ask yourself:
  • What if already know enough?

If you believed you already knew enough about sales to go build your business, then what would you do now?


What’s stopping you?




Check out thread:
 
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LiveEntrepreneur

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Depends on your situation of course.

I’ve loved providing a service to multiple business owners. I learn from them just by serving them.

If it’s your bag then look at working in a digital marketing agency, or skipping that step and getting digital marketing clients.

Get one for free for the first few months, then pick them up at $250/mth.
Whatever gets me entrepreneurial experience is the most beneficial way to spend my time I think (talking about the job itself).
 

LiveEntrepreneur

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I agree with people saying *not* to have a goal to “learn”.

Ask yourself:
  • What if already know enough?

If you believed you already knew enough about sales to go build your business, then what would you do now?


What’s stopping you?




Check out thread:
I think there is miscommunication here. So what I am trying to say is, in my spare time I am working on my idea, I am not thinking if "I know enough" or not. This is my line of thinking: "I have 8 hours of full time work, 5 times a week. What would be the best way to spend my time?" because at my current job I am unhappy as I feel there is no sense of purpose.

Your answer to this "If you believed you already knew enough about sales to go build your business, then what would you do now?" I wrote out a small plan which I'm going to be executing on. My goal is to start helping people and my plan is tailored towards that.
 

Andy Black

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I think there is miscommunication here. So what I am trying to say is, in my spare time I am working on my idea, I am not thinking if "I know enough" or not. This is my line of thinking: "I have 8 hours of full time work, 5 times a week. What would be the best way to spend my time?" because at my current job I am unhappy as I feel there is no sense of purpose.

Your answer to this "If you believed you already knew enough about sales to go build your business, then what would you do now?" I wrote out a small plan which I'm going to be executing on. My goal is to start helping people and my plan is tailored towards that.
I wasn't unhappy when I had "jobs" I didn't like. I knew I had an escape plan. I was building my tunnel under their feet and they didn't even know it (think of "The Great Escape" where the British POWs are tunneling out of a WWII camp).

You can reframe your current job in your own head and work on your side hustle, or maybe switch jobs. Personally, I'll be advising any entrepreneurial nephews or nieces to get digital marketing jobs if they wanted a job (and they were that way inclined). Obviously if they want to become a plumber then I'm not going to advise digital marketing.

Anyway... that's not what you originally asked, but hope it helps.
 
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LiveEntrepreneur

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I wasn't unhappy when I had "jobs" I didn't like. I knew I had an escape plan. I was building my tunnel under their feet and they didn't even know it (think of "The Great Escape" where the British are tunneling out of a WWII POW camp).

You can reframe your current job in your own head and work on your side hustle, or maybe switch jobs. Personally, I'll be advising any entrepreneurial nephews or nieces to get digital marketing jobs if they wanted a job (and they were that way inclined). Obviously if they want to become a plumber then I'm not going to advise digital marketing.

Anyway... that's not what you originally asked, but hope it helps.
Yeah makes sense cheers. might be tough to get without experience but will try.
 

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If im understanding correctly the main point you were making is having a strong why? I think ive covered that. Am i missing something?

Yep, you are. All I've gathered from you is that you're considering sales, because you've heard it's a valuable skill (regardless of the type of sales). But what are you acquiring sales skills for? The purpose of skills is to solve problems. What problem do you expect to solve by going into sales?

B7W47kCIgAAqaJY.jpg
 

LiveEntrepreneur

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Yep, you are. All I've gathered from you is that you're considering sales, because you've heard it's a valuable skill (regardless of the type of sales). But what are you acquiring sales skills for? The purpose of skills is to solve problems. What problem do you expect to solve by going into sales?

B7W47kCIgAAqaJY.jpg
Ok. So like I mentioned before I am acquiring the skills because when it comes to sell my own product, having that sales experience will make it easier for me to do. So that's the reason for wanting to learn sales, and now your second question, what problem so I expect to solve? Well I guess when it does come time to selling my own products I'll have a solution and it's that solution that I'll be selling to potential customers which will solve their problem.
 
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Hey so since i am going down this road of business/entrepreneurship i think its a great skill to have and if i am spending 8 hours a day at a job i may aswell do something tailored towards my goals. Though i do see a hard time seeing how ill use sales skills for an online service. I get copywriting. but i get the feeling its just basic stuff.
Instead of looking at jobs to better your experience why dont you change tact and look at courses / degrees you can do in Entrepreneurial Sales?? This then backs up your skills sets and you actually learn how to sale, handle a pipeline, lead gen I can go on. IF you were interested in knowing more I would be happy to help :)
 

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Definitely, door to door/b2b sales.

I have always sold things door to door, I started as a kid with a bucket of candy. Now I just do it just to get a kick out of it. However, there's some decent money involved depending on the product/service. I was taking home $400-500/day on straight commission for driveway sealing when I was in High-School.

A great start is to go to a chemical cleaning company and buy deadstock multi-purpose cleaning wipers. I was buying packs of 120cloth for $3 each, and I was selling them for $20/pack d2d. I could easily sell 3 packs/hour on any given day.

I eventually developed relationships with most of my clients and then started hooking them up with garbage bags. Now, you can actually make a business out of this where you supply clients with household products on a bi-weekly/monthly basis.

Anyways this is my recommendation for sales experience as it's what I grew up with. People that say it shouldn't be done have never experienced actual success with it.
 
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So recently I have been looking at changing jobs. I wanted to get a sales job because I know it's an important skill to have and is a really productive use of my time. Though I am having trouble figuring out what will be the best in terms of:

* Cold calling jobs
* Retail stores
* Internal sales

Was thinking cold calling. I am a bit scared of it and worried I was I'm going to quit fast but I do see good potential to it.

I looked at retail stores and such but if I am selling things like laptops, there isn't really much to sell a customer on. So I think it won't give me the best experience. I was looking at real estate and that sort of jazz, but a lot of it is hours like from 8am-8pm. No time for my personal projects.

Internal sales lastly, seems more like processing orders and taking orders over the phone not actual selling?

Just wondering on people's opinions here, what do you guys think is the best sort of role is to get sales experience? I did look a bit at startup's but there's not much around.
In my experience, out of all my education and work experience, my sales jobs have been the most valuable by far. I say this to say, it doesn't really matter what sales job you get if you want to build that skill... just get one. It is a skill that is built with practice and refined over a process that leads to the event of growing your bottom line (sound familiar)?

After 6 months of working as the guy that sells DirecTv packages in Sam's Club... I WAS IMMUNE TO REJECTION. I understood the importance of attitude in selling and the Law of Averages. I experienced what it means to "go for no".

If it wasn't for that experience, I never would've printed 100 business cards advertising "Garage Cleaning" and went door to door. When I look back on the sales I made doing that, it makes my next venture feel that much more real because I've sold something of my own and not someone else's.

I learned how to speak slow, clear, and short when I sold life insurance. Most importantly, I learned the importance of building relationships and getting referrals. I took the skill to sell suits in a retail store and built a huge clientele. As Andy Black would say Repeat customers + Referrals = Profit. When I went back to school, most of my college tuitions were paid for from my commissions at this job.

If I were in your position, I'd want to be the guy that realized which type of sales (retail, door to door, phone, etc.) I was MOST afraid of... and then went and did that shit.

Hope that adds value!
 
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Door to door dildo sales.

Cant go wrong
 

sparechange

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I agree with people saying *not* to have a goal to “learn”.

Ask yourself:
  • What if already know enough?

If you believed you already knew enough about sales to go build your business, then what would you do now?


What’s stopping you?




Check out thread:

This is actually true.

I've read through a lot of success stories from people that are self made, funny enough alot of them admit to having no clue what in the hell they are doing, and wing it along the way.

The latest being Sara Blakely


) You CAN figure it out – you have the ability. Sara knew absolutely nothing about women’s undergarments, patenting a new product, manufacturing, marketing, product development, website development, online commerce, and more. But that didn’t stop her. She researched what she needed to, hired out what she couldn’t do, and marched forward with undying commitment and energy. Don’t stop yourself from pursuing an idea because you don’t think you have what it takes.

long story short she became the worlds first self made female billionaire with no education or training in business
 

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