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OFF-TOPIC Best countries for "losers" (Overwhelming Majority)

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Taken from: Countries for Losers; Countries for Winners

I find this interesting and would like to see what others here reply


Countries for Losers; Countries for Winners

We all, naturally, want to be winners.

And so, consequently, a great many countries are designed to reward winners. These are the countries that pay a good deal of attention to optimising the conditions of life available to people who win.

In such lands, if one is a winner and falls ill, the hospitals are outstanding:

Screen-Shot-2013-06-08-at-1.58.04-PM.png


The transport laid on for winners is superlative:

BMW-1.jpg


The housing for winners is spacious, light and uplifting:

Kensington-Park-Gardens-W11-ext.jpeg


And winner children are educated in establishments that resemble five star hotels:

rosey_3177008b.jpg


Of course, in such lands, provisions for losers are not so quite so comfortable. There isn’t the money left over. So housing for Losers can be challenging:

otvarak-r913.jpg


Transport for Losers is something of a humiliation:

_93323628_934f62e8-53c4-45e7-a1b9-b9744c8edc40.jpg


And the children of losers start to learn young about their negligible status.

_89656260_alpertonschool2013.jpg


This could all sound worrying, but it tends not panic us very much for one fundamental reason related to how the human minds work. Most of us naturally assume that we will – at some point – become winners.

You can see this optimistic part of the brain in action in our well-observed proclivity for playing the lottery. Millions of us show an inclination to believe that we will end up holding a winning ticket – despite the daunting odds.

The chances of winning the UK lottery are one in 14 million. This often isn’t enough to put many of us off.

Gaby-Roslin-hosts-National-Lottery-751436.jpg


If we don’t play the lottery ourselves, we may feel a bit sorry for people who do. We may smile at their folly in getting statistics quite so wrong. But in the way we vote, we may display a strikingly similar mindset. We too may cast our votes for political parties determined to reward a tiny subset of winners and cast the vast majority of losers to a less dignified end.

We would do well to study statistics.

Class-6-How-to-Fail-SLIDES.png


Class-6-How-to-Fail-SLIDES-1.png


Chances of needing to depend on the state for health, housing, transport or welfare over a lifetime:

o-HOSPITAL-NHS-BIRMINGHAM-facebook.jpg


92%

In short, a degree of financial fragility is the statistical norm; being a loser is the norm. We are far more likely to end up with a mediocre salary, with delicate health and vulnerability to ill-fortune than we are to end up robust, invulnerable winners.

Yet still we insist on creating and supporting Winner Countries. Here are five of the world’s top Winner Countries, countries that go out of their way to make the consequences of winning as pleasant as possible.

Top Winner Countries

5. Brazil

4. India

3. China

2. UK

1. US

There are a few notable loser countries on our planet. They tend not to get the limelight. Here is the list of the world’s top Loser Countries:

5. The Netherlands

4. Germany

3. Switzerland

2. Norway

1. Denmark

In Loser Countries, voters graciously assume that they are and will remain losers – and therefore set about trying to make their condition as pleasant as possible.

They make sure there is a public transport system fit for losers:

transport-venindeferie-s-tog-cykler.jpg


Public housing fit for losers:

68fde3546719e6cab11a1f866290d0d5.jpg


And public schools fit for complete losers:

e37d2f74357acd4a05559571d006bbaf.jpg


In these Countries for Losers, it can be awkward to be a winner. No one applauds you for driving a fancy car. Money won’t buy you schools any better than the loser ones. You might even go to a loser hospital of your own accord. And your taxes might be quite high.

Both Countries for Winners and Countries for Losers have their advantages. The question is whether we are voting for societies that reflect our own statistical realities. By accepting that we will almost certainly be and remain Losers, we might be sad no doubt, but we may also be liberated to scheme to live in societies that make the consequences of failing a lot less bitter.
 

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Saving space for comment... have not reviewed.
 

stefan

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Pretty fun and entertaining post OP. Very nice content creation skills.

I agree with you for the most part, although I'd add the caveat that one can "win" in pretty much any country nowadays.

I don't want people to think that you HAVE to live in the U.S. to win, when there are millionaires popping out of nearly every third-world country thanks to the internet.

But yes, people born in the U.S. have an advantage of sorts. Many of us had the concept of winning ingrained into our childhood.

Bigger Stronger Faster is a good documentary that captures the American will to win.
 

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And so, consequently, a great many countries are designed to reward winners.

Countries aren't designed.

Both Countries for Winners and Countries for Losers have their advantages.

There's no such thing as countries for winners. There's no such thing as countries for losers. There are winners and losers everywhere.

What are your personal goals? That would be a much more interesting intro to the community here.
 
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Taken from: Countries for Losers; Countries for Winners

I find this interesting and would like to see what others here reply


Countries for Losers; Countries for Winners

We all, naturally, want to be winners.

And so, consequently, a great many countries are designed to reward winners. These are the countries that pay a good deal of attention to optimising the conditions of life available to people who win.

In such lands, if one is a winner and falls ill, the hospitals are outstanding:

Screen-Shot-2013-06-08-at-1.58.04-PM.png


The transport laid on for winners is superlative:

BMW-1.jpg


The housing for winners is spacious, light and uplifting:

Kensington-Park-Gardens-W11-ext.jpeg


And winner children are educated in establishments that resemble five star hotels:

rosey_3177008b.jpg


Of course, in such lands, provisions for losers are not so quite so comfortable. There isn’t the money left over. So housing for Losers can be challenging:

otvarak-r913.jpg


Transport for Losers is something of a humiliation:

_93323628_934f62e8-53c4-45e7-a1b9-b9744c8edc40.jpg


And the children of losers start to learn young about their negligible status.

_89656260_alpertonschool2013.jpg


This could all sound worrying, but it tends not panic us very much for one fundamental reason related to how the human minds work. Most of us naturally assume that we will – at some point – become winners.

You can see this optimistic part of the brain in action in our well-observed proclivity for playing the lottery. Millions of us show an inclination to believe that we will end up holding a winning ticket – despite the daunting odds.

The chances of winning the UK lottery are one in 14 million. This often isn’t enough to put many of us off.

Gaby-Roslin-hosts-National-Lottery-751436.jpg


If we don’t play the lottery ourselves, we may feel a bit sorry for people who do. We may smile at their folly in getting statistics quite so wrong. But in the way we vote, we may display a strikingly similar mindset. We too may cast our votes for political parties determined to reward a tiny subset of winners and cast the vast majority of losers to a less dignified end.

We would do well to study statistics.

Class-6-How-to-Fail-SLIDES.png


Class-6-How-to-Fail-SLIDES-1.png


Chances of needing to depend on the state for health, housing, transport or welfare over a lifetime:

o-HOSPITAL-NHS-BIRMINGHAM-facebook.jpg


92%

In short, a degree of financial fragility is the statistical norm; being a loser is the norm. We are far more likely to end up with a mediocre salary, with delicate health and vulnerability to ill-fortune than we are to end up robust, invulnerable winners.

Yet still we insist on creating and supporting Winner Countries. Here are five of the world’s top Winner Countries, countries that go out of their way to make the consequences of winning as pleasant as possible.

Top Winner Countries

5. Brazil

4. India

3. China

2. UK

1. US

There are a few notable loser countries on our planet. They tend not to get the limelight. Here is the list of the world’s top Loser Countries:

5. The Netherlands

4. Germany

3. Switzerland

2. Norway

1. Denmark

In Loser Countries, voters graciously assume that they are and will remain losers – and therefore set about trying to make their condition as pleasant as possible.

They make sure there is a public transport system fit for losers:

transport-venindeferie-s-tog-cykler.jpg


Public housing fit for losers:

68fde3546719e6cab11a1f866290d0d5.jpg


And public schools fit for complete losers:

e37d2f74357acd4a05559571d006bbaf.jpg


In these Countries for Losers, it can be awkward to be a winner. No one applauds you for driving a fancy car. Money won’t buy you schools any better than the loser ones. You might even go to a loser hospital of your own accord. And your taxes might be quite high.

Both Countries for Winners and Countries for Losers have their advantages. The question is whether we are voting for societies that reflect our own statistical realities. By accepting that we will almost certainly be and remain Losers, we might be sad no doubt, but we may also be liberated to scheme to live in societies that make the consequences of failing a lot less bitter.

interesting i talk with someone about this reguarly, would be interesting to know where you from?i guess a looser country?

i dont know how is it to live in the Winner Countries so i can tell you out of my perspective most of the things posted here about looser countries is really the truth, paying high taxes(the more you earn the more you pay!) and nobody want you to succeed, the thing with education is also very true. You wont believe how huge are the differences in education! I could visit a payed private university for one week and i was shocked what they learn in there first year in economics = they have to build a website to sell stuff online in real!!!! I was learning just f*cking numbers and bookkeeping and marketing bla bla!! its crazy..... they also learn and practice how to contact with investors and to network, it was outstanding what they learn compared to normal people on normal university, big big difference.
 

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Countries aren't designed.



There's no such thing as countries for winners. There's no such thing as countries for losers. There are winners and losers everywhere.

What are your personal goals? That would be a much more interesting intro to the community here.

MJ writes a lot about finding the ideal environment for success in his books. I think this is a perfectly valid discussion.

I've lived in America, Europe, and Africa - and different environments can absolutely influence your will to succeed.

For example, in America, there's a lot of emphasis on the individual. You have to become a killer to make it in the U.S.

In Scandinavia (where I've also lived), there's an emphasis on something called "Jante". The Law of Jante looks down upon individual success.

It's a major cultural difference that can subconsciously influence your success.

If I had been raised in Finland, I very much doubt that I would own a thriving little business today.

I still LOVE all other countries like Finland. But, some countries are designed to reward winners, and some countries add barriers to winning.
 

G-Man

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MJ writes a lot about finding the ideal environment for success in his books. I think this is a perfectly valid discussion.

I've lived in America, Europe, and Africa - and different environments can absolutely influence your will to succeed.

For example, in America, there's a lot of emphasis on the individual. You have to become a killer to make it in the U.S.

In Scandinavia (where I've also lived), there's an emphasis on something called "Jante". The Law of Jante looks down upon individual success.

It's a major cultural difference that can subconsciously influence your success.

If I had been raised in Finland, I very much doubt that I would own a thriving little business today.

I still LOVE all other countries like Finland. But, some countries are designed to reward winners, and some countries add barriers to winning.

Not making the argument your environment doesn't affect you. Of course it does. Here's the quick and dirty of how I think about stuff like this:
  • Countries aren't designed, they're the product of tons of interrelated systemic processes.
  • I shy away from anything with a deterministic bent, because I don't think it helps anyone, least of all the people who believe it.
  • I'm much more interested in hearing OP's story and goals.
 

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MJ writes a lot about finding the ideal environment for success in his books. I think this is a perfectly valid discussion.

I've lived in America, Europe, and Africa - and different environments can absolutely influence your will to succeed.

For example, in America, there's a lot of emphasis on the individual. You have to become a killer to make it in the U.S.

In Scandinavia (where I've also lived), there's an emphasis on something called "Jante". The Law of Jante looks down upon individual success.

It's a major cultural difference that can subconsciously influence your success.

If I had been raised in Finland, I very much doubt that I would own a thriving little business today.

I still LOVE all other countries like Finland. But, some countries are designed to reward winners, and some countries add barriers to winning.

interesting! so what country you liked most with low barriers to winning?
 

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Brazil being #5 on the winner's list surprises me.

The heavy into socialism countries not rewarding success doesn't surprise me AT ALL.

Anyway,

Thankfully I'm not a statistic.
 

stefan

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interesting! so what country you liked most with low barriers to winning?

America because I know for a fact that anyone can make it in America. You will be encouraged and rewarded greatly for building your business here. You also have access to a population of 320 million people who speak the same language, with easy logistics, payment processes, etc. There's literally nothing stopping you from making a few million here except your own beliefs and mindset.

However, I agree with G-man in the sense that it isn't good to have a deterministic bent. Meaning that there are MANY opportunities to win in 99% of all other countries. It's true that with the right mindset, nothing can stop you.

I generally tell people to spend a few years in the U.S. if possible, so that you can be around people who are determined to compete at the highest levels.

Once you've done that, then you can build winning systems in virtually any country in the world.
 

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This post is really interesting, though I will admit that I believe life IS what you make it. I live in the Caribbean - our country is smaller than a dot, at present, the country is going through a so-called recession. Our main revenue is petrochemicals and tourism. Due to petrochemicals being exceptionally great over the years, we ignored tourism, now that our country is in a financial crunch, we're still trying to squeeze the petrochemicals industry, hoping we can survive economically over whatever dregs we get left behind, specifically after experiencing an oil boom in the early 80s that pretty much allowed the persona of our people to become laissez-faire . In 2017 - 30+ years after the oil boom in the 80s, people are still bending on their knees asking, hoping and beseeching we can experience another oil boom, with the situation taking place in the petrochemicals industry globally with clean energy and new oil being found here, there and everywhere and being sold at MUCH cheaper prices per barrel, another oil boom ain't something that's going to happen, at least not anytime soon, and while this IS the case, there has been NO contingency plan in place, we have tourism to fall back on, but because of SO MUCH corruption, we won't recognise golden opportunities if it fell on top of our heads. In the meantime we're more or less in a 'hope and see situation', what in the world can 'hope and see' do for one when time is just slipping away? I've been hearing folks speak about diversification since I was a little girl, I'm a woman now, and since I know the gov't isn't going to listen to a small-body like me, I am currently minding my business - literally - and not allowing the crazies of my country to hold me back from winning.

Aside from all of that though, life is genuinely about perspective. Do you know most of the countries you listed as being the worst countries to live in is listed as some of the world's most peaceful nations, as like no crime worries, corruption etc. etc., lol, I don't give in too much to lists though, because, depending on the agenda of whoever is gathering - or making up the information, they can list things accordingly. All this to say that even though a lot of the factors you have highlighted are definitely valuable and yes, it can add to the make or break of one's life, many times, it is these "worst" situations that light a FTE and get us into action, regardless of what the culture of that country is or what it was designed for.

We can create great opportunities - I always read about forum members who changed their surroundings/getting out of that comfort zone, pushing themselves to excel, after all, we ARE Creators and we are capable of creating the lives we desire. I won't deny that systems are put in place to advance or reject groups of people; however, the ills of society are sometimes what people take and find purpose in changing for the better while inspiring and elevating others to do same as they beat the systems put in place by regimes. Regardless of which group, race, class or country we come from we will ALWAYS be faced with challenges, the Opportunity - that some of us miss - is to Create Solutions so we, our families and all those inspired can do same to get ahead.
 

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Brazil being #5 on the winner's list surprises me.

The heavy into socialism countries not rewarding success doesn't surprise me AT ALL.

Anyway,

Thankfully I'm not a statistic.
This ain't statistics anyway.. It's BS. ;)
 

daru

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MJ writes a lot about finding the ideal environment for success in his books. I think this is a perfectly valid discussion.

I've lived in America, Europe, and Africa - and different environments can absolutely influence your will to succeed.

For example, in America, there's a lot of emphasis on the individual. You have to become a killer to make it in the U.S.

In Scandinavia (where I've also lived), there's an emphasis on something called "Jante". The Law of Jante looks down upon individual success.

It's a major cultural difference that can subconsciously influence your success.

If I had been raised in Finland, I very much doubt that I would own a thriving little business today.

I still LOVE all other countries like Finland. But, some countries are designed to reward winners, and some countries add barriers to winning.
Internet has murdered Jante? ;)
 

MJ DeMarco

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This is the OP's first post. I'm suspicious of intent here.
 

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This is the OP's first post. I'm suspicious of intent here.

And that he posted and dipped. You’d think if he put in all that work (assuming not copy and paste) he’s stick around to reply to comments.
 

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Someone on here recently left Brazil to go to Canada. I think Canada should replace Brazil (but I have no evidence to support this).
 

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Call me crazy but I'd prefer to live in a country for "losers" being on the winning side.

My personal success doesn't invalidate the needs of others.

Now, some might say that the "losers" simply haven't earned their right to live a dignified life. But are you really okay with living in a society where 99% of people have to live in constant fear that their whole livelihood gets wiped away by one decision of a company executive or by one injury, which stacks up to 5 or 6 figures in hospital bills? That they'll ruin their children's or grandchildren's lives simply by getting old and needing care?

It is difficult to objectively measure happiness but every time it has been tried countries like Norway and Denmark come out on top.

There was a comment about people rubbing off on you and I sure do prefer to be surrounded by happy people.

Now, you might have to pay a little more taxes. But I'm fine paying taxes as long as they go to building roads, getting children a proper education or saving the lives of those who couldn't help themselves. What pisses me off is when they get squandered on subsidies towards industries which contribute nothing to society but happen to have a nice lobbying budget.
 

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Call me crazy but I'd prefer to live in a country for "losers" being on the winning side.

what does that mean, are you just happy to have more than any 3rd world country?

Now, you might have to pay a little more taxes.

i am afraid you dont live in germany?


Now, some might say that the "losers" simply haven't earned their right to live a dignified life. But are you really okay with living in a society where 99% of people have to live in constant fear that their whole livelihood gets wiped away by one decision of a company executive or by one injury, which stacks up to 5 or 6 figures in hospital bills? That they'll ruin their children's or grandchildren's lives simply by getting old and needing care?

i guess you mean USA? have you ever lived there?

getting children a proper education or saving the lives of those who couldn't help themselves

Proper education? lol?

Saving the live of those who couldnt help themselves????? you didnt watch Merkel debating with people in ritirement who need to pick up plastic bottles to get some money??? Big problem here germany is people who cant make a living with their retirement in old days...

Sorry i dont want to make Germany bad it has his good sites but the points you made are not good ones, i am sure you are not a business owner, do you have job here?
 

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These videos are put out by a company called "The School of Life". The top of their homepage is "A Blueprint for a Wiser Kind of Capitalism", placed un-ironically directly below a paypal link.

My eyes rolled so hard I think I stroked out momentarily.
 

Ascension

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what does that mean, are you just happy to have more than any 3rd world country?

No, that is not what I mean. I still plan to make enough money to get and do everything I want. But in my eyes, the job of the government is to make policy that is in the best interest of the entire population and not that of a small subset. As not everything is about me the best choice from a utilitarian standpoint would be to live in such a country.

i am afraid you dont live in germany?

I get why you would assume I'm talking about Germany, it being listed in the original post. But no, I don't consider Germany a good example of any of the points I listed

i guess you mean USA? have you ever lived there?

No, but I have seen five-figure bills for a three-day hospital stay, the stories about crippling student loan debt are abundant on this forum and only recently there was a discussion about health insurance going into the thousands each month for median income families.

Proper education? lol?

Saving the live of those who couldnt help themselves????? you didnt watch Merkel debating with people in ritirement who need to pick up plastic bottles to get some money??? Big problem here germany is people who cant make a living with their retirement in old days...
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Sorry i dont want to make Germany bad it has his good sites but the points you made are not good ones, i am sure you are not a business owner, do you have job here?

Again, not talking about Germany. I completely agree with the points you made in this paragraph. I was trying to make a more general statement why I see certain legislation as beneficial even though it would hurt me from a purely monetary standpoint.
 

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This is really not this simple.

You say the US is the #1 winner country and yes, it has a well-deserved reputation of being a country, or even THE country for winners, but that reputation stems more from history than from the present. (Same goes for the UK, probably even more so.) Taxes nowadays are quite high in many places in the US - it's difficult to cite exact figures because multiple levels of administration have the right to levy taxes. But in general, the federal personal income tax has progressive rates, the corporate income tax has progressive rates, there are a whole lot of welfare programs (with almost nonexisting effects, however, because they are poorly designed and poorly executed - yet you have to pay the taxes that fund them), and red tape is everywhere.

Then there's your list of loser countries, with all Western European countries in the top 5. Sure, taxes are shockingly high in the Scandinavian countries, but other than that, the government doesn't make it hard to do business. Tax rates are usually one component in the ease of doing business and similar rankings of countries, and even though their tax rates are astronomical, each of the Scandinavian countries outdoes the US.

The general idea behind the Scandinavian model is this: if you're a winner, we expect you to give a significant amount of your profit to the losers' benefit, but other than that, we'll let you become and continue to be a winner. The general idea behind the American dream, meanwhile, is that if you're a winner, you can keep most of what you earn - but until then, I, Uncle Sam, will do everything I can to block your way to success.

And to make it still more complicated, look at most countries in Eastern Europe. Trying to attract and create capital to make up for the economic clusterfuck produced by 40 years of Soviet oppression, these countries have low taxes (e.g. Hungary: 15% flat tax on personal income, 9% flat tax on corporate income) but impose significant red tape on everyone (not just on businesses). There are private schools and private hospitals for the winners and some of the worst public ones in the world (winner country?) but public transport is shit (loser country?). Winners and losers alike flee by tens of thousands each year - we're talking about a region with less than 100 million people here - to Western Europe or beyond because it's better there both for winners and for losers. So then, which of them are the countries of Eastern Europe for if neither wants to stay there?

Yep, it's way more complicated than countries being for winners or for losers. I don't think anyone can name many entrepreneurs who moved from Western Europe to India or Brazil to make their fortunes in those 'winner countries'. Either they stayed where they were born and became successful there in spite of the welfare state - or they went to the US to make it.
 

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These videos are put out by a company called "The School of Life". The top of their homepage is "A Blueprint for a Wiser Kind of Capitalism", placed un-ironically directly below a paypal link.

My eyes rolled so hard I think I stroked out momentarily.

OP's trying to get backlinks to his website!
 

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These videos are put out by a company called "The School of Life". The top of their homepage is "A Blueprint for a Wiser Kind of Capitalism", placed un-ironically directly below a paypal link.

My eyes rolled so hard I think I stroked out momentarily.

OP's trying to get backlinks to his website!

I think G and Leo are onto something @MJ DeMarco
 

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Is it me or do others feel like they constantly need to fight against Socialism? (This is a loaded question I know). But when the link says "Reform Capitalism" all I can think about is- "Thats the argument Socialists make!"
 

MidwestLandlord

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Read Millionaire Fastlane
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Dec 6, 2016
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Taxes nowadays are quite high in many places in the US -

And not just taxes.

Fee's and regulations cost businesses way more than people realize...and guess who pays that? (the end consumer, unless you're in an industry like mine where no one seems to want any margin)

I spend 10's of thousands of dollars a year complying with regulations from multiple city, county, state, and federal level departments.

THEN I get invoiced for the inspectors that come around to play "gotcha" and try to find me non-compliant.

Most of the inspectors work out to be about $1,000 an hour.

At some point this year I get the pleasure of writing a roughly $50,000 check to a specialized contractor to get ONE location compliant with new regs.

"Land of the free"
 

nur_

New Contributor
Oct 18, 2017
2
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11
Iskandar
And that he posted and dipped. You’d think if he put in all that work (assuming not copy and paste) he’s stick around to reply to comments.

i'm still here, reading without logging-in.

I didn't post because I don't have any comments just sharing, I am now in southeast asia, things are different here.

I've stated it's a copy-paste

"Taken from: Countries for Losers; Countries for Winners"
 

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