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Off-Topic Beam me up Scotty! (We have teleportation/quantum entanglement! )

Discussion in 'Off Topic: Sports, Funnies, Pop-Culture' started by MJ DeMarco, Jul 14, 2017.

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  1. MJ DeMarco
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    MJ DeMarco Raving Lunatic Staff Member Read The Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR Summit Attendee

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    Ethereum? Meh...

    First Object Teleported from Earth to Orbit...


    Seeing the discussion on physics we had in the other thread, I thought this would interest in the forum. Thanks @AllenCrawley for texting the link, me thinks we ain't the only ones fascinated by this stuff.

    A single photon is the first object to be teleported from the ground to an orbiting satellite

     
  2. Argue
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    Argue Silver Contributor Read The Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    MIND BLOWN!

    [​IMG]

    A lot of technical scientific terms in that article but would it be possible to transport a human? :eek:
     
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    ZF Lee Silver Contributor Read The Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    No.
    A human body consists of the physical part and the spiritual part.
    While the human soul or spiritual part is not something that science can officially map, quantify and measure as of now, we know it exists because when people die, the human body just stops functioning, as if the 'pilot' in the vehicle 'leaves'.

    A few issues though:
    Conversion of our organic bodies into a more versatile particle or medium for transmission
    So far, the article above only concerns photons, which are not organic and pretty much neutral as they are unlikely to be converted to either tangible organic or inorganic materials. Thus they can be transmitted with more ease, with the question of tangibility aside.

    The body has to be broken down in order to be transported quicker. That is the reason why light can travel very fast...it does not have the cumbersome weight that we humans have to put up with.

    I hardly see any means of breaking our bodies down into neutral particles as much of our biological functions rely on polarity charges and whatnot to functioning...or else our blood cannot flow, nerve impulses will fall to crap and so on.

    In fact most forms of breaking the body down i.e cremation and transplants are rather violent in nature...thus I might not be wrong to say that if we try to omit motor movement from transportation, it is highly likely that we'll reach our destination in a highly unnatural form.

    It's like sending an IKEA furniture to a house as different parts to assemble, not as a whole product. While we can assemble the furniture, can you assemble an entire human being to tip-top condition? You can't. Even now, for the real world example of biological reassembly such as transplant, you still need drugs to balance it out because it's unnatural.

    Identity of the soul

    As science has yet to quantify or even sample the human soul for a thorough tangible analysis, there exists the danger that if you can teleport a human, the integrity of the soul lies in the limbo.

    Can you teleport both body and spirit?
    Photons or fibre optics don't face this problem. They are just signals which provide the input for systems to reproduce intended outcomes i.e an object orientated interface in the case of computers or internet browsers. I see them as similar to petrofuels...lifeless, serving as bland mediums.

    But for us, our soul contains our personality. Our emotions. How we feel, how we remember, how we decide. The soul is the 'pilot' in our body, so to speak. And if you cannot transport the 'vehicle' with the 'pilot', the purpose of teleportation is defeated.

    The vehicle has to go with the pilot. One cannot go without the other.

    And besides, ALL technology is based on some form of IMITATION of nature.
    We never created anything originally, so to speak. We just looked at nature, learned and reapplied.

    The wheel was never invented. There are many animals who have spherical based anatomies to assist in their coordination.

    Fire was never invented. We merely observed the aftereffects of a forest fire, volcanic eruptions. Fire then led to the sciences of combustion, upon which most motors in vehicles rely on for motion, albeit with varying types of fuels.

    Electricity was never invented. We discovered it as en energy source after we witness lightning destroy.

    Steam was not invented. The inventor of the steam engine observed the boiling kettle and went to work.

    As of yet, I have not seen anything in nature that TELEPORTS. So if we have no basis to model from, we cannot create a means of teleportation.
    Even if photons can teleport, it is quite a weak basis of nature to copy for further application as there are lots of other, more significant factors at play in sustaining nature.

     
  4. lowtek
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    Teleporting a human is going to be infeasible for our lifetimes, I'll explain why.

    This experiment, and all the others like it, as awesome as they are, are useless for sending humans through space. What they've really done is transmit the quantum state of the photon, and then measured that state when encoded on a photon on the other end. The original is destroyed.

    Since any two particles with an identical state are indistinguishable, they have technically teleported the original photon.

    However, this is not what we really mean when we think of teleportation in the sci fi sense. We tend to think of it as the original object ceasing to exist at point A, and beginning to exist at point B. Not murdering Bob at home and then replicating Bob on Mars a few minutes later.

    As far as I know (not an expert in the subject), the current thinking is that consciousness is not really a state, but a collection of processes. Hence why it can be disrupted in predictable ways through mind altering drugs, surgeries, and injuries. We haven't mapped out, or even defined, this set of processes, so we're a long way off from being able to transmit it.

    It's also an open question whether it (consciousness) relies on some quantum processes, which means it could be impossible to reproduce at 100% accuracy. How much this accuracy matters for getting the stuff that matters to us right (i.e. our memories and personality), is unknown.

    I could see this as a means of teleporting people in the most general sense, in the far far future. I suppose you could clone the person, ship the clone to the destination, and then beam up their consciousness. A variation of this is actually explored in the SyFy network series "Dark Matter", and is a pretty cool concept. I could see this being feasible eventually, but again - not in our lifetimes.

    The end game of this technology, for the near term, is to create a sort of quantum network that is inherently more secure. Due to the way quantum mechanics works, we'll be able to tell if our data is intercepted. It makes snooping and evesdropping much, much more difficult (though not impossible).
     
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    This reminds me of Rigetti (Rigetti), a YC-backed company trying to build the world's first scalable quantum computer. I suspect the applications will go beyond breaking RSA encryption. Something a quantum computer can do, which people only talk about in research circles, is the ability to run quantum simulations. For example, trying to simulate a chemical reaction is extraordinarily difficult on a normal computer because the reaction itself is quantum, which requires exponential time to track all the quantum states. But a quantum computer can simulate that chemical reaction using the same equations built into the hardware, so it runs much faster. This can be used to understand chemistry, biology, drug discovery, nanotechnology, etc.
     
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    And you're right - I'm am also fascinated by Quantum Physics but it's a little hard to wrap my mind around at times. It almost sounds like they are cloning the photon.


    Until a few years ago my knowledge of teleportation was limited to the following:

    1. The scene in Willy Wonka where MikeTV tries to teleport himself through WonkaVision

    2. Star Trek

    3. The bizarre stories online about the "Mars Jump Room" program the government supposedly had 30-40 years ago.


    So obviously I have a lot of catching up to do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017 at 12:32 PM
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    @lowtek as our resident physics expert I'll pester you: It's been a while since I looked into this last, but isn't it impossible to "communicate" using quantum teleportation alone? i.e. don't you need to send classical information to make use of the measured qubit on either end?

    They can't know what the qubit will be before measuring it, so no true "communication" is taking place between the locations except for a knowledge of what the qubit is in the other location.

    I seem to recall the practical uses being rather limited, to as you say an encryption type system, perhaps a cipher, or perhaps something more creative, but it won't enable "faster than light" anything, as I understand it.

    Agree/disagree?
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017 at 11:21 PM
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    Not @lowtek but I do have a graduate degree in physics, so I might be able to chime in. You're absolutely correct, quantum teleportation can't send information faster than light. For a two-state system (eg, electron spin: up/down, or photon polarization: vertical/horizontal) it works as follows:
    1) Alice has a particle (call Psi) with arbitrary state (eg, any combination of up and down).
    2) Alice has a particle (call A), and Bob has a particle (call B), which were entangled ahead of time.
    3) Alice performs a "Bell Measurement" on Psi joined with A, causing Psi and A to become entangled. This measurement has four possible outcomes.
    4) Alice tells Bob the outcome of her measurement through a classical channel.
    5) Bob uses his knowledge of Alice's measurement to perform one of four transformations on B, after which B has Psi's exact original state.

    I'm not sure of the "practical" applications of QT, other than it verifies A and B were actually entangled correctly even when separated by a large distance, which is really interesting in its own right.
     
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    Most modern theories in physics revolve around ideas that cannot be imagined or pictured in our imagination. The reason for that is because our senses are a limited instrument. Remember when Descartes said you cannot trust your senses? This is why a lot of people say "I have trouble imagining that or picturing it" Our imagination is based on our optical properties of our eyes which don't give us direct access to a lot of complex ideas. Think of your imagination as a "complex memory bank of pictures and sounds all associated together".

    But just because you cannot picture it doesn't make it false.

    For example you can travel in time if you enter a black hole and come out of another black hole in another galaxy. The reason that can happen is because the two black holes are actually the same black hole:rofl:. Because black holes don't "occupy space" they exist in another dimension which lets it "skip" or transcend the enormous distance. It's difficult to picture this, but because all of this is happening in another dimension your senses are limited to just this space-time physical dimension.
     
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    Never mind me, I'm just here to enjoy the jargon and complicated equations...
     
  12. Ascension
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    I don't want to turn this post religious, everybody is free to believe whatever he wants, but I just wanted to note that there is no scientific basis for that claim as far as I'm aware.
    Humans don't just die, even a death "of old-age" is just one crucial part of the organism failing to continue its job. Be that the heart, lungs, parts of the brain etc.
    If you can't get oxygen and nutrients to the cells they will inevitably die off aswell (thus stopping bodily functions).


    I certainly agree though that "teleportation" wouldn't be a feasible way to transport living organisms. Even if you could perfectly reassemble them at the destination with all their memories etc. it would just be a perfect copy and the original person would still have died.
     
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    “Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done.” – Robert A. Heinlein
     
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    I always wondered about the Philadelphia Experiment. I met a man that was there at one point. He didn't like ever talking about it. At the time I met him in 2005, I did some research. I think around 2011, I looked at it again and stuff was changed about the same information I read previously. They talk about this kind of stuff with whatever happened then, what your saying happens to the body. I'll probably never know, but I found it interesting the man I met was very disturbed when I tried to talk about it with him.
     
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    I heard a discussion today on how Elon Musk is concerned that people are unaware how much AI might change humanity as we know it. Somewhat loosely related to the OP.

    Elon Musk Warns Governors: Artificial Intelligence Poses 'Existential Risk'

    1. he knows more than we do
    2. he is concerned about this
     
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    I googled "Do you exist yet?" a couple months back.






    Nothing happened.
     
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    That gave me goosebumps.

    "... summoning demons they think they can control."
     
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    Looks correct to me.

    I'm prepping for a move so I didn't have time to give a detailed response.

    Basic idea is that the statistical correlations are useless until the two experimenters compare notes.

    Just because you got some output from the measurement, doesn't necessarily mean the other person got the opposite measurement. Something could have interfered to screw up the entanglement. I.e. a fleck of space dust might have collided with the photon.

    I'd also like to point out their error rate was astronomical. Something like 900 out of a million photons made it. The distance achieved is awesome, but it's a laboratory toy - for the moment. I'm sure someone will fix it and scale it up.
     
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