Back Stabbed by Partner

[santirestrepoo]

My cofounder and I have been working on a new internet service for several weeks. I was made in charge specifically of sales and marketing while he focused soley on being a technician and building the website. We had written up a contract and we were going to meet up today to sign in and plan the following weeks till launch.

Anyways, I called him up and I said, "Hey are we meeting up?" and he responds "uhh.. no theres been a change in plans." He explains that he wants 30% equity to finish building the website and he would relinquish the rights to be the cofounder and basically just chill and do maintenance. I almost laughed in his face, but kept my composure and told him I would think it over.

Looking back at it I am glad this has occurred because the vision he had for the company and my own were very different. But, what do you think? Was his proposition worth it? Where can I get someone to finish the website with no money in hand? I have absolutely no start up funding and am still a student with no job.

 

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[devine]

Tell me what service do you want to provide, I'll tell you what I think.
PM.

btw, it's not "backstabbed" - you just don't have mutual interests and goals. Leave no room for such mentality.
__
nevermind, not interested.

 

[The Grind]

Tell me what service do you want to provide, I'll tell you what I think.
PM.

So many stories like this, i'd say its safe to say that you literally shouldn't trust your own mother to do business with you.

 

[Mattie]

Is that just changing his mind, and he was paying for it, and you weren't? Something doesn't sound right if you're stating you don't have any job and no cash. And how much weight were you pulling and he was pulling? If he was paying for stuff, and you were adding anything into it, I can understand why someone would do such a thing. You didn't really elaborate. If you were both doing work and equally putting money in that would be a different story. Sounds like there is more to the story some how.

 

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[RHL]

Lol. Unless you're doing something really novel/innovative, a banging website costs, at most, $6,000 to get going. If you don't have it, sell a car, go to yard sales and flip on craigslist, or get your butt down to Burger King for a few months. If I had the remotest inkling that I was creating something of any value at all, there's no chance in hell I'd sell 30% for a finished website. That'd be saying the max value of the project was somewhere around $20,000, in which case, go back to the 9-5, you'll make more more reliably.

Tell him to work for his share continually until you're profitable, or pound sand.

*Edit-UNLESS what's really going on here is that he built a nice website while you wantrepreneured it up for a few months. If his price is reflective of the fact that he has worked and you have not, then his deal seems pretty square.

 

[santirestrepoo]

Is that just changing his mind, and he was paying for it, and you weren't? Something doesn't sound right if you're stating you don't have any job and no cash. And how much weight were you pulling and he was pulling? If he was paying for stuff, and you were adding anything into it, I can understand why someone would do such a thing. You didn't really elaborate. If you were both doing work and equally putting money in that would be a different story. Sounds like there is more to the story some how.

I was the only one that had put money into the business thus far putting in around $200, he hadn't put in anything he was just doing some graphical work and the building of the website. It seems that a friend or family member basically told him, "screw that guy, you can make a business on your own and get an even bigger profit." Now he wants to make an internet design business. I don't know if that completely answer that question, but yea I definitley had put in more weight he had been building the stupid website for 3 weeks now.

 

[Vigilante]

Reminds me of the start of the Facebook.

One scary thing though is that he no longer believes in the project.

Problem #2 is that programmers can put locks into their programming that effectively could screw you down the road.

 

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[santirestrepoo]

Lol. Unless you're doing something really novel/innovative, a banging website costs, at most, $6,000 to get going. If you don't have it, sell a car, go to yard sales and flip on craigslist, or get your butt down to Burger King for a few months. If I had the remotest inkling that I was creating something of any value at all, there's no chance in hell I'd sell 30% for a finished website. That'd be saying the max value of the project was somewhere around $20,000, in which case, go back to the 9-5, you'll make more more reliably.

Tell him to work for his share continually until you're profitable, or pound sand.

*Edit-UNLESS what's really going on here is that he built a nice website while you wantrepreneured it up for a few months. If his price is reflective of the fact that he has worked and you have not, then his deal seems pretty square.

No the idea was created at most maybe beginning of this month. He hadn't been pulling the weight of even completing the website. Problem is since we are both in high school getting shitty pay its not so easy to acquire $6,000 for a website. I am not sure what to do if to trust him to finish it and just give him the equity which i definitley don't want to do, but I have no idea at this point.

 

[santirestrepoo]

Reminds me of the start of the Facebook.

One scary thing though is that he no longer believes in the project.

Problem #2 is that programmers can put locks into their programming that effectively could screw you down the road.

I think he still believes in the project because just yesterday he was freaking out about how much he loves the idea. I think he even believed in it more than me. In my opinion I just don't think he is realistic and knows little to nothing about how business works. I think he is a genuine guy we aren't really friends per say, but I don't think he would screw me over.

 

[loop101]

"I don't think he would screw me over", ha. I worked with a guy for 8 years who I didn't think would screw me over. Turns out his wife had no problem screwing me over. Read what Felix Dennis has to say about partners. Never give up even 1% of ownership. It should just be you, and your employees.

 

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[tafy]

Partners ate over rated, but they can work great. Depends on your luck and mindset of both people.

 

[Ninjakid]

On one hand, a valuable ability in business is the ability to understand people. When I meet someone I can usually tell within about five minutes whether they're trustworthy or not.

On the other hand, people are weird. Sometimes they're very good at hiding their nature, sometimes they're bipolar, sometimes they forget to take their medication, they hit their head on a rock and can't remember what they said the previous day, they break up with their spouse and decide they hate the world now, etc. etc. ...
So for those cases, you need to have a contract before you do ANY work. Don't just trust that they won't go back on their word, make it so that they can't.

But like @devine said, you didn't really get "back-stabbed". Inconvenient for you? Sure. But it's not the same as getting outright screwed over.

 

[IrishSpring600]

Anyways, I called him up and I said, "Hey are we meeting up?".

Mistake. Unless this was done 15 minutes after the arranged meeting time, mistake. What this does is communicates that you think something is wrong. You're not sure of yourself. This energy will be sent to the receiver and he/she'll go, "oh hey - maybe I shouldn't do this, too".

If you and your friend have known each other for years, you would not sure as hell confirm "Hey are we still meeting up?" that's just stupid.

Just affirm the precedent and everything else will follow.

Related

 

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[Digamma]

I was the only one that had put money into the business thus far putting in around $200, he hadn't put in anything he was just doing some graphical work and the building of the website. It seems that a friend or family member basically told him, "screw that guy, you can make a business on your own and get an even bigger profit." Now he wants to make an internet design business. I don't know if that completely answer that question, but yea I definitley had put in more weight he had been building the stupid website for 3 weeks now.

So you put in two hundred dollars, the guy was working on it for three weeks, and you seriously think you are the one in the red?

 

[IrishSpring600]

"It seems that a friend or family member basically told him, "screw that guy, you can make a business on your own and get an even bigger profit."

Yeah, right...

Moving on now.

 

[Jesse Dallenbach]

Hmmm you stated, "I definitely had put in more weight he had been building the stupid website for 3 weeks now."

You are attempting to start an internet service business and a website would seem to be pretty vital to your operations but you utter the phrase "building the stupid website"

Son don't take this the wrong way you are not ready to run any type of business let alone have any kind of business "relationships".

If you talk about your so called business partners that way there is a high HIGH probability you would talk to prospective customers that way as well.

Learn to deal with the people in your life first...it's a good skill to have.

- Jesse

 

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[Dwight Schrute]

Where can I get someone to finish the website with no money in hand? I have absolutely no start up funding and am still a student with no job.

If you scroll all the way down, you'll see this:

[SPONSORED-NEW!] 5 Fast Steps To Start A Lucrative Online Business With No Ideas, No Money, & No Experience

The Foundation. They can help you out.

Basically, you can pre-sell your service to get the money with which you then pay coders to finish the website.

There are some interesting podcasts at SPI if you want to find out more about Dane's strategy.
http://www.smartpassiveincome.com/?s=dane maxwell

 

[ZCP]

So it was 50-50. He built some of a website, you put in $200. Now he wants it 80-20?

How did you plan to start an Internet service, if you cannot even build a website?

Do you normally over sensationalize and blame others for everything that happens to you?

When you hit a roadblock or are told something cannot be done; do you normally quit, throw your hands up, and run to social media so others will tell you there was nothing you could have done?

What deal can you broker to keep moving forward? How will you overcome this obstacle?

Nice work for getting started! You are way ahead of most high schoolers!

 

[Imgal]

If you think there is real potential and value to the partnership then I would definitely consider getting together, talking it over and setting out some real divisions of labour.

i really have no idea how much work he did on the website, so this is more of a generalised statement, but I honestly think that web design is one of the most undervalued professions out there. The truth is even if someone is just buying a template, installing it, importing content then editing it to make it look how it did on the demo you can easily be looking at 10 hours of work. Just that is looking at 3 figures in price at the very least.

The truth is he may be reacting because he's been in similar situations to me. At least once a week someone will pitch me their amazing business idea (that comes complete with no projections, evidence or idea of customer base) and feels they are being extraordinary generous offering me the chance to be part of it... all I need to do is build the website (custom build of course) and then they'll give me a percentage of the company. In other words they'd like me to invest £10,000+ in free work on the chance their idea might take off. I don't think most people are doing it to get one over on me or take advantage, I just don't think they comprehend the amount of work and effort something costs to implement and do. Is that their fault? Well to a degree people should educate themselves more, but honestly in the end it is the web designer / developer's responsibility. We do need to stand up and politely explain these points and not feel like the victim who is being taken advantage in the situation. We also need to be a lot more realistic about how much work something is and project scope creep is a very realistic possibility and to a degree ensure there is a contingency for that in an initial bid / budget that gives the flexibility to allow it to a small degree without running back and forth to the client who wants to argue the small print to get their extra page added.

To the same degree none of this could be true and please don't take it as me bashing you. I think you're awesome for getting out there and trying to build a business. I just thought it might be useful to see it from what potentially the other side is thinking.

Also sorry for the long waffle. Been coding all weekend and my ability to have normal, succinct conversations has gone out the window.

 

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[santirestrepoo]

If you think there is real potential and value to the partnership then I would definitely consider getting together, talking it over and setting out some real divisions of labour.

i really have no idea how much work he did on the website, so this is more of a generalised statement, but I honestly think that web design is one of the most undervalued professions out there. The truth is even if someone is just buying a template, installing it, importing content then editing it to make it look how it did on the demo you can easily be looking at 10 hours of work. Just that is looking at 3 figures in price at the very least.

The truth is he may be reacting because he's been in similar situations to me. At least once a week someone will pitch me their amazing business idea (that comes complete with no projections, evidence or idea of customer base) and feels they are being extraordinary generous offering me the chance to be part of it... all I need to do is build the website (custom build of course) and then they'll give me a percentage of the company. In other words they'd like me to invest £10,000+ in free work on the chance their idea might take off. I don't think most people are doing it to get one over on me or take advantage, I just don't think they comprehend the amount of work and effort something costs to implement and do. Is that their fault? Well to a degree people should educate themselves more, but honestly in the end it is the web designer / developer's responsibility. We do need to stand up and politely explain these points and not feel like the victim who is being taken advantage in the situation. We also need to be a lot more realistic about how much work something is and project scope creep is a very realistic possibility and to a degree ensure there is a contingency for that in an initial bid / budget that gives the flexibility to allow it to a small degree without running back and forth to the client who wants to argue the small print to get their extra page added.

To the same degree none of this could be true and please don't take it as me bashing you. I think you're awesome for getting out there and trying to build a business. I just thought it might be useful to see it from what potentially the other side is thinking.

Also sorry for the long waffle. Been coding all weekend and my ability to have normal, succinct conversations has gone out the window.

I just want to start off by thanking you for the reply. Anyways, I completely understand and the project was not difficult. It was simply intstall the Salient theme, Install some Plugins here and there, and just get the basic structure up. I might be wrong, but I don't think that would be 3 weeks of work. He was just some other 17 year old that wanted to build a business I reached out, he knew how to code, so he started building it. As time progressed he said he wanted to put more weight and be the cofounder so I told him, lets see how it goes. We had agreed at first for it to 60/40. It was never 50/50. When he we were going to sign the contract is when he said he wanted 30% equity for the company and all he would do is set up the website.

I don't believe this to be a Million dollar idea. I think it would be something that has an extremely low start up cost that would allow me to raise money for my bigger businesses that I have in mind. I also work a job so its not like this would be my only income. I just want a form to put myself out and get experience before I go all out in the months to come to create a million dollar bail out project.

So it was 50-50. He built some of a website, you put in $200. Now he wants it 80-20?

How did you plan to start an Internet service, if you cannot even build a website?

Do you normally over sensationalize and blame others for everything that happens to you?

When you hit a roadblock or are told something cannot be done; do you normally quit, throw your hands up, and run to social media so others will tell you there was nothing you could have done?

What deal can you broker to keep moving forward? How will you overcome this obstacle?

Nice work for getting started! You are way ahead of most high schoolers!

I explained the percentages above. And no I don't I went to people on forums that actually have experience to ask my questions. I realize I am young and do not have all the answers so instead of doing something stupid that I would regret, I ask people like you that have more knowledge and experience for their personal opinions. I still am planning the launch. There is no way I am not going to do it. I am working on looking for a new programmers and accessing my possible options to go forward with the project. Thank you for the words of encouragement though.

Hmmm you stated, "I definitely had put in more weight he had been building the stupid website for 3 weeks now."

You are attempting to start an internet service business and a website would seem to be pretty vital to your operations but you utter the phrase "building the stupid website"

Son don't take this the wrong way you are not ready to run any type of business let alone have any kind of business "relationships".

If you talk about your so called business partners that way there is a high HIGH probability you would talk to prospective customers that way as well.

Learn to deal with the people in your life first...it's a good skill to have.

- Jesse

Your right that was definitely my fault for uttering that. As has been posted by others on this post I guess I wasn't truly back stabbed, I just felt very betrayed by him. When we spoke over the phone everything was done in a professional manner and I kindly and respectfully said "Okay thats, fine." and I would think it over. I never was rude or mean with him, I just felt my time was wasted for waiting 3 weeks for this fairly simple website. He is not a professional and I do not think he is proposing a good deal whatsoever. It almost feels like he is trying to screw me over with his proposition. But, I think I will just respond and thank him for the proposition, but hire a professional to do the website or just learn to build it myself. Anyways thank you for the advice.

 

[ZCP]

Get an INSIDERS subscription and post more details inside. Maybe we can steer you a little.

 

[Imgal]

@santirestrepoo And coming back with such detailed responses and openness like you have is a sure sign that once you've got your plan tightened up a bit you are going to fly. As I say wasn't a personal dig at you at all and adore the way you saw that and responded like you did!

 

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[Leo Hendrix]

If your still in high school then you should have more time.

Pay for a Web Developer Course on Udemy, doesn't cost much with a promo code.I recommend Rob Percivals Complete Web Developer Course.

Take him out of the equation however you can, if you simply have oral agreements and nothing is binding, start your website.

 

[santirestrepoo]

If your still in high school then you should have more time.

Pay for a Web Developer Course on Udemy, doesn't cost much with a promo code.I recommend Rob Percivals Complete Web Developer Course.

Take him out of the equation however you can, if you simply have oral agreements and nothing is binding, start your website.

Thank you for the response. I will we are planning a call soon and I plan on listening to a final proposition and then I will exit the partnership. I know some HTML nothing very sleek and professional, but you are right this is my senior year I should take full advantage and start building up a front-end portfolio to have something to back up on after I graduate high school. I will definitely look into the developers course.

Get an INSIDERS subscription and post more details inside. Maybe we can steer you a little.

I am going to build a video pitch to explain my vision for the idea and have joined several meet up groups in my area to meet my potential avatars and see their opinion on the service and see if they would be interested and if not how to pivot. I will start working again next week and will get the subscription thank you so much for the advice.

@santirestrepoo And coming back with such detailed responses and openness like you have is a sure sign that once you've got your plan tightened up a bit you are going to fly. As I say wasn't a personal dig at you at all and adore the way you saw that and responded like you did!

Thank you so much I really have been working diligently on the project and myself. Hopefully in the followings weeks I will post a progress thread as to where the idea leads me and how it is going!

 

[Ubermensch]

My cofounder and I have been working on a new internet service for several weeks. I was made in charge specifically of sales and marketing while he focused soley on being a technician and building the website. We had written up a contract and we were going to meet up today to sign in and plan the following weeks till launch..

Ready, fire, aim?

First, you sign agreements. Then you work with people.

I've learned this the hard way, more than once. My attorney is Tom Patterson, of Patterson Law Firm. He specializes in corporate lawsuits.

People act funny (edit) when the money starts flowing, or is about to start flowing.

Only way to prevent the funny acting is with iron-clad agreements.

Non-circumvents, non-disclosures, etc protect you.

Business is war. Don't show up to a fight unprepared.

 

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[JordanK]

Pretty sure any contract signed by a 17 year old is null and void from the beginning (I'm 17 as well)

 

[tafy]

No need to anything crazy, just make sure you have a work for hire contract or just hire through upwork.

 

[Leo Hendrix]

@RHL Banging Website costing $6000 to get going. I don't mean to derail the thread but I am curious about that cost figure,
Please elaborate briefly if you could be so kind.

 

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