Ask Me Anything About SaaS ( I'm building my 7th )

[eliquid]

PHP is written in C too

PHP has really evolved and became fast, especially since 7+. Comes with opcache (binary cache) that loads the code in memory and removes the need to interpret it for every request. Takes some memory but can save a lot of CPU.

But yes, the lower-language you go, the faster it usually is.

Yeah we were using PHP 7

It still takes more time though.

PHP 7 code connecting to and talking to/performing actions with Redis PHP drivers ( and MySQL ) was so slow compared to C code talking to/performing actions to the native C base of Redis/MySQL.

I'd have to get the numbers dug out of our development Skype chat, but it was pretty extra-ordinary the amount of time, CPU, and memory saved

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[eliquid]

Hey @eliquid I have a question on pricing...

Is their ever a benefit to lower price vs higher price? In this instance it might be $100/mo vs $50/mo.

In my mind, I'm thinking that the $50/mo might be a little bit less work to sell people on (also because it offers tremendous value). My SaaS app (currently just a desktop program) is directed to Vets themselves not the business itself (their could be anywhere from 1-6 Vets per practice) but it varies (some practices share patients while others have their own but share the office space).

What I am trying to say here, is I'd like to somehow encourage the "sharing effect." Like I want the first Vet in an office to be so impressed or the program offers so much value that he tells his co-workers and they purchase too. In my mind though, I think that $100 might be a little steep for what it does (it saves anywhere from 6-20 hours per week or more) and may require further convincing...

If the Vets are not being paid hourly, most likely a % or salary, how do you tie the time savings in, in quantifiable benefits?

thoughts?

Also if my app is profiting off of the inefficiencies in another program (but does not use it at all), does it fulfill the commandment of CONTROL?

So for pricing, here is a way you can think about it...

I looked up average salaries for Vets, its $91,250 a year.. which is like $43.85 an hour.

Your software saves them 6-20 hours of time per WEEK ( you said ). Lets average that to 13 hours a week.. or 52 hours a month.

At $50 a month, they save 52 hours a month in exchange for 1 hour of pay? That's massive value bro.

Even if its just the measly 6 hours a week and not 13 averaged, that's 24 hours saved a month for 1 hour of their pay pretty much. Still massive value.

If I was you, I'd up it to $100. I'd trade 2 hours for 52 hours of free time. Even 24 hours free time.

I'd hit up your current members and ask them directly how much time they save in a survey, then use those as testimonials on your site.

For the sharing and wow factor, that comes from having a great product and will naturally happen once your product is great. Telling you how to have a great product is a little bit more than I can share in this post, but you need to find out your CORE vet demos.

Why?

Because not every Vet will buy from you. It just won't happen.

You need to find your CORE vet demo, ask them about their issues and problems, and make sure your SaaS solves that and provides massive value. If you can really save them 52 hours a month for 2 hours of pay, you have all you need as long as you have an awesome product that is easy for them to use too.

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[eliquid]

Hey @eliquid happy holidays.

Question: So I have a list of 6000 offices (each office might have 1-10 vets) who all might have the problem I want to fix. Granted I still need lots of feedback. I'm having an MVP built, and I'm hoping to find a couple beers who would be willing to work with me to find tune the MVP.

Do you have any suggestions for reaching out to them? Establishing a relationship?

I got mixed on on the "beers" part. I think your asking for either programmers to fine tune the MVP, or a couple of the 6000 offices to help you fine tune it.

In either situation, if your service truely fulfills a strong enough need and provides great value.. one of the 6000 offices would be willing to help you if you offer it to them for free.

If I had cancer and someone reached out to me with a MVP drug that could cure it, yeah I'd take it for free. If I was a local plumber in dire need of clients and someone asked me to test out a free MVP of a product that gets me customers, yeah Id try it for free.

If this is your case, offer them free access to the MVP. Their feedback will help you, so why not let them use it for free.

If you mean programmers/coders.. then you will need to either pay or provide equity.

In all cases, reaching out by phone is the best route because people like to ignore and delete/miss emails.

Phone will help you stand out.

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[Andy Black]

Earlier in the thread you talked about establishing yourself as an expert in the niche you work in. What do you think of the strategy of starting a blog/youtube channel, and producing free content before advertising a SaaS product to your customers? (I guess that would be inbound marketing)

1. build MVP of product while starting a blog/youtube/free content
2. sell yourself as a consultant in that niche, in which your product relates to, while you code and write the rest of the product and free content
3. start making some of the content paid
4. all the while you are signing up Beta users to your SaaS, getting consulting gigs that show you more areas you can improve in your SaaS, making you money, gaining you authority, etc

Even though I'm not building a SaaS (yet?)... I am building a subscription business.

My process was similar to @eliquid 's above, albeit more accidental than designed:

1. Go help people.
2. Gradually work out what people will pay you to help them with (ideally something they'll pay monthly for).
3. Go help people in forums. Find out the common issues and problems. Answer them there and then. Create content to answer repeated questions.
4. Create a paid course to help people with the most common problem (how to get started).
5. Create a private Facebook group to help people who bought the course.
6. Realise Facebook groups are cr@p and start migrating people to a paid forum.
7. Realise that a paid forum with ongoing support and training will help members better than a one-off course. Plan to move course into the forum and close down course.
8. All while still serving done-for-you clients who are still paying monthly.
9. All while getting paid by the clients to learn how to solve problems those very clients have.
10. All while getting paid by the clients to build the people, processes, technology, and IP to solve their problems at scale.

@SoftStone ... this thread might help you:

• How to use forums (and Facebook groups)

 

[eliquid]

Way to narrow it down...

Well, there is no formula for pricing a website, app, or SaaS.

You get what you pay for. Similar to a car, house, boat, etc.

How long is a piece of string?

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[splok]

Way to narrow it down...

Wtf? Why be a dick to someone who's trying to help? Way to make sure that doesn't happen again...

Having said that, I'll still try to help explain some of the problems in pricing software development so my post isn't equally useless.

The short answer is:

You're basically asking how much it would cost to build a custom Udemy and complaining about not getting a specific number? Software development isn't like a universal menu/price list. Different developers will charge dramatically different prices, and seemingly small differences in what you ask for can also cause dramatic shifts in price. The difference between going with a freelance dev versus a more corporate-oriented company is probably an order of magnitude or more by itself, as would be using off the shelf software versus something built from scratch.

If you want a better number, spec out your design and start contacting developers to ask what they would actually charge.


But to explain those differences:

Imagine that you just need a blog set up, and nothing more specific. Lets say I'm a friendly freelance dev who isn't trying to inflate the cost. If you come and ask me to do it, I can find a hosting account that has 1-click Wordpress installs, then I can sign up and click. Great, you have a blog, and it took me maybe 10 minutes.

If you have a couple of additional feature requests and want it to look a certain way, I can see if there are plugins and themes that would suffice and install them if so. Maybe 100 minutes? Fast, but still 10x the time, even though the 1 click install literally had 99% of what you needed. That 1% just 10x'd your cost...

Then imagine that plugins and themes don't get you where you want to be. Now you're having to pay for actual development instead of just paying me to install stuff for you. Probably a minimum of 10x again... and then multiples of that depending on how many changes/additions you want.

You may even want enough changes that it makes sense to just start from scratch, which would be EXPENSIVE but after a certain point, it can be cheaper than continuing to try and shove a square peg in a round hole.

Now, if I wasn't a friendly freelance dev, I might not even look for an off the shelf solution and jump right to pricing all of your required features from scratch, and depending on how wide your eyes get at the price, I might (or might not) back it up a step or two until I get to something that sort of approaches your budget. But by then, you're primed with the outrageous price point, and you're probably already thinking through which features you can dump to reduce costs.

Also consider that a dev starting at step 1 with the lowest price can also be devious (or possibly incompetent, depending on the situation), since that's a low-barrier way to get someone locked in for all the future steps that the dev knows you're going to need.

Everyone is naturally weary of someone that pushes the hard sell, but be just as weary of someone who's happy to execute exactly on the specs you give them without a thorough discussion of your needs. Unless you've carried multiple similar projects through to completion, there are absolutely things that you're going to need that you don't know you need yet. (This is why, imo, some people have great success with outsourcing to low-cost countries, while others end up with the opposite experience.)

A high-quality, experienced dev will work to understand what you actually need instead of just relying on what you say you want, taking your experience level into account. And they'll never be the cheapest (at least initially), because they know that no one is ever happy with a default Wordpress install and will price in a lot of the stuff that they know you need but probably aren't asking for.

 

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[eliquid]

First off, let me just say thanks so much for this thread. I just devoured it today, will definitely repeat a time or two more to ensure it sticks. Power packed with valuable information and helped me verify a lot of hunches I had in planning out a SaaS marketing plan/core features for a company that is well, not going anywhere with their product. The extremely detailed responses and thought flow makes it that much more powerful.

Thanks

Second, you mention crypto. Being one of those hotshot internet marketing guys (SEO/PPC), I come from a similar background, but the crypto space is exploding right now. While my industry experience is certainly in IM, I feel like at this point in the game the most potential is in crypto due to the vast amount of inefficiencies in the budding market. I have isolated an area of particular interest and am moving on it.

I have been programming scripts to automate bidding on my end with crypto. I'm not 100% there yet, but I have these scripts written in Pine ( TradingView ) and a few others and I am just "testing" my ideas atm.

Pretty much I try to master 2-3 coins tops at any 1 time and then trade the areas I see that need a correction.

We spoke briefly in the Fastlane Crypto slack about some ideas, but I'll definitely want to have a chat in Scottsdale. There is just so much potential with SO much data, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Sure, lets plan on it

As my contribution, a few questions:
Do you ever work with strategic marketing partners to get exposure?

Never have personally. Some of the companies I have consultant with have, but not me personally. It's something I will prob work on this year or next, but right now its all about getting some other foundational things all together.

-I know a lot of your strategy on the marketing side stems from your moat, but so long as the target demographic is relevant, leveraging the moats of other high profile industry players should be just as valuable given the value add is there. WIIFT, could be a coupon code to keep track of signups with affiliate commission payouts to keep them incentivized to promote it over the long-haul.

Yeah we have affiliates who are influencers in their own right promoting our SaaS in different areas of marketing like blackhat, ORM, local, international SEO, etc.

Have you considered or looked into taking cryptocurrencies as payment?

Thought about it briefly myself, but decided against it. With bitcoin at 20k one week, then 14k, then 10, then 8k ( and all the levels back up in between ), I just didn't want to deal with it getting it back into fiat, paying the extra high fees, wait times, etc.

I know things will get better, but right now just isn't the time for it.

Do you ever incorporate scraping into your data acquisition methods?
-This is the grey area IMO for some of my plans. While certain sites do have specific ToS prohibiting scraping of any kind, if the data from said scraping is behind a paywall and not actively advertised in marketing materials, is there a real risk here? Would the best bet in the case of this sometimes valuable data be to obfuscate the source in an effort to still utilize it?

Can't answer if we scrape..

But, I can tell you it's not very easy to prove you do it.

If you have several servers, and lets say these servers have no domain attached to them and are from different providers under different billing names and addresses.. and use diff user agents for scraping, etc... How would anyone trace that back to you and your site?

At worse the site your scraping could block your IP and user agent, then file a complaint with the owner of the IP and hosting provider/upstream. Having things located in another country helps too in some regards.

Only if things came to a lawsuit would someone be able to demand records to prove you were attached to the other rogue servers. Otherwise, at worse you might have accounts at different places shut down at different times. However, there is a ton of hosting providers...

However, I am not an attorney and my advice should not be taken as legal advice. Also I am not suggesting you scrape or go against ToS of a website. This is all for entertainment purposes only...

Thanks again for everything! Rep++

Thanks

 

[eliquid]

You know how they say when you develop copy for a LP, or a target demo/avatar.. you pick one person and write just to that person?

Sometimes they tell you, write like you are writing to Justin, your best friend. Or your mom...

This is what my process for a SaaS is like.

The one person, is always me.

What does Jason need in X SaaS product? And then I make it.

There will end up being a couple thousand other "Jason's" ( me ) out there online though, just like me.

They will find the product and join up. They will have questions and concerns, some will churn and leave. Those are all points for me to learn and expand on my SaaS. Improve it.

That improvement leads to more people coming in, no longer just "Jason's". But Bobs and Williams, Mary and Irene's.

In my position of authority, I can typically skip a lot of the "pivoting" and go right to making a pretty good product. However, you will have to mostly go through this pivoting if you are working in an industry you do not know ( my example above ).

Does that help?

.

 

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[eliquid]

What I haven't seen a lot here when it comes to programming things on your own is code structure/architecture. Keyword here is: modularization. If you keep code in separate, yet small chunks of code that has only one responsibility you will have so much more easier time scaling, adding new features, changing existing ones. It keeps your code more readable and easier to reason after couple of months (important!).

This was done on purpose. Everything has a time and place.

1. No one has brought this up in the thread, so it didn't have its time yet

2. This forum is filled with more entrepreneurs than developers, so this hasn't really had its place yet

I know a ton of developers who don't do anything else ( they don't do marketing, they aren't really business people, they don't do sales or other things ) and this typically is how they think and what they do.

Is it wrong? Of course not. But again, everything has its time and place.

And the time and place for pretty and well-factored code is not at the start/beginning. These are problems for developers to solve, not entrepreneurs trying to prove an MVP or get their first 20 clients.

No need to plan to scale if you can't validate in the market and don't have money to hire employees to change the code while you get more clients.

Once you have money and things sorted out, then you can hire developers whose job it is to properly factor out the code and scale-out the DB.

This idea may pivot 3 more times before it's profitable. Trying to perfect the code base on each will be a huge waste of time, at this moment.

Just validate and get sales. Hire others to fix your mistakes when it takes off.

A perfectly written business plan, pretty code, sound database, and backups of backups are worthless if it doesn't get customers and that's a lot of wasted time by the time you realize that.

Sales can pretty much cure all.

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[eliquid]

focusing your message too narrow on a core group + Making your message understandable to your grandma can be a bit contradictory
- can you elaborate on it ?
-- ( is it about making a very clear message that attracts a core group of users
-- or should your marketing message change as you grow your user base beyond your core group

Thanks for all the info

If my core group is digital marketing agencies, I need to narrow in my message on that core group.

However, not everyone in that core group is in the weeds and knows the lingo and buzzwords and understands the intimate inner workings of SEO, so you will need to explain it to them so their grandma understands.

A good example might be the VP of marketing. They might make the buying decision, but they have never done SEO in their life and therefor not know everything about it.

Maybe they spent most of their career in offline marketing and are now the VP in a digital agency. Maybe they did a lot of email and PPC, but not SEO. Maybe they know a little SEO ( to talk the talk to clients ) but they don't know the inner workings enough to understand why your SaaS will really help them.

Focus your message on the group/core topic, but make the message easy enough grandma could get it.

There are actually very very few people who really "get it" in most companies when you start looking at "core" topics. It took me a long time to understand this. I use to think if this was your "job" or "career" that you would just "get it". I use to think if you made it to Director or VP or C-suite, you knew the fine details and inner workings of your "core" topic.

But that is not how it really is 95% of the time.

Craft to the core, but speak to the grandmas. Hint - the grandmas enjoy emotion. Use that.

 

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[eliquid]

I've made an official stance that if you post a question in this thread and it's a different version of the same question I have answered 3-7x times prior in the past 15 pages, that I am not going to re-answer it.

This is in no way a bad thing. But I feel if you really read the thread, a different version of the same question really wouldn't be needed to be posted. I encourage anyone serious about building a SaaS reread this thread over and over as the answers are all here, even if your situation is different.. ie:

1. you have 10 years or 0 years experience
2. you are in X industry instead of Y
3. you know where to start, you dont know where to start
4. you have tons of money, you have no money

You don't need specific answers no matter what you think.

I don't mind helping people, I truly don't. But it gets a bit disparaging to keep answering the same question like, "how do you find ideas for your SaaS", "how do I start" and the like when this whole thread has it answered multiple times.

 

[NMdad]

My hesitation going with no code is getting deep into a project and finding out that a feature I want to implement simply isn't possible vs using raw code.

I'm very comfortable with HTML and CSS and can create just about any static website. JS is what I mean when I say I'm rusty. However my MVP is very simple and the main selling point of the product is the user experience, not necessarily the backend magic.

I've checked out Bubble.io but I don't think it would be able to deliver the UX I want to create.

Do you have some examples of successful companies started with no-code?

I get what you're saying, but I wouldn't let that stop you from using no-code for the MVP & getting paying customers.

I built my SAAS in Excel. It's B2B, and clients pay $800-900/month to use it.

I could've built v1 as a cloud-based SAAS, but I would've had to hire developers to do it. But I know Excel (VBA & SQL), so I built v1 in Excel, and clients are happy with it, since it solves their problem--regardless of the platform.

Eventually I might decide to morph it into a cloud-based SAAS. But by that time, I'll have the features, design, & workflow ironed out from having enough clients using it, and I'll have enough revenue to hire developers to build it.

 

[inputchip]

Oh I've been waiting for this one! Thanks for doing this @eliquid, we all have a lot to learn from you i'm sure!

1.) What is your preferred programming language for doing SaaS products? I have been hearing Ruby on Rails is usually the way to go.

2.) Would you recommend, for someone like myself who is somewhat familiar with the basics of other programming languages (python, fortran, javascript, html, css) to learn another language to undertake the programming myself, or should this be left to the experts?

3.) How have your partnerships been structured in the past? I'm currently in negotiation for a partnership. My partner wants a larger percentage as we are pursuing his idea and it is within his industry, however I have a much more technical background and will likely be doing more leg work.

4.) Have you presold any of your previous products? Or any other form of validation? Or did you go straight into building an MVP?

 

[c4n]

The pricing post is my favorite so far, thanks @eliquid

It's much better to offer more value, than to reduce your price. As in offer more of X instead of taking less $$$.

Gold.

 

[eliquid]

So the last few we have left from the original list is:

• Marketing
• Customer service
• Partnerships
• Customer demos/profiles, MVPs, UVP's, ahHa moments, etc
  

Which one do you want to know about the most, next?

 

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[eliquid]

Thank you for this, I'm almost through the thread but I do have a question about your dev process.

When you have an idea, do you just use a whiteboard or a drawing app to figure out your UI? Or do you use something like Balsamiq or Moqups?

Or do you just layout and code based on raw experience?

I've been searching for something that makes certain UI layouts a bit less wild on the workflow. I did some UIs but spent what I think to be way too much time on them with hard coding.

I draw it on paper first, even if it's a napkin or the back of the electric bill.

I then take that and transfer it to something more official like Balsamiq to show devs and partners.

Past that, its up to someone else to create.

 

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[eliquid]

Hey @eliquid thanks for providing so much value, really appreciate it!

I have another question on marketing. Earlier in the thread you talked about establishing yourself as an expert in the niche you work in. What do you think of the strategy of starting a blog/youtube channel, and producing free content before advertising a SaaS product to your customers? (I guess that would be inbound marketing)

The only downside (but quite a big one...) I would see with this is that it could take many years to build a good following you can sell to. Do you think it is worth it?

Appreciate your opinion

You've phrased this in a way it seems like you can only do one thing...

1. start blog/youtube/free content
2. hit famous or authoritive level
3. build product to sell to customers

Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but it kinda seemed like it.

Why not do both at same time?

1. build MVP of product while starting a blog/youtube/free content
2. sell yourself as a consultant in that niche, in which your product relates to, while you code and write the rest of the product and free content
3. start making some of the content paid
4. all the while you are signing up Beta users to your SaaS, getting consulting gigs that show you more areas you can improve in your SaaS, making you money, gaining you authority, etc

 

[eliquid]

Wow, thanks for providing such actionable steps! I‘ll definitely follow up on them. Had no idea that PHP was once called Fl, either...

Yeah, it was actually called PHP/FI, but lots of us just called it FI for short.

It‘s interesting to hear about different backgrounds. How did you get into marketing? Was it also an interest of yours?

Need and greed. I built websites first, but they were not interactive.. so I got into Perl. Now these sites can interact and do things, but no one visited them.. so I got into marketing. That was all need based.

The fact I was broke and refused to pay anyone else, was the greed part.

I am also working on building my reputation as a developer through teaching in a specific niche, so I guess the practise which comes from building real products helps in that as well.

But there has been this diversity I have seen a lot concerning multiple income streams. It seems as if many successful people think it‘s good, while others encourage you to go for one thing only.

Ah yes, the whole millionaires have 7 streams of income.. or just the multiple streams from not having your eggs in one basket theory.

It depends on how you read it.

Wanna know why most millionaires have 7 streams of income?

1. Most of them owned a business and got their first million ( or close to it ) that way - weekly paycheck
2. They had self directed IRA or self funded retirement they contributed to - 2nd stream of income
3. They got into Real Estate, this is pretty popular. If not, they got into storage sheds or car washes or something else that is semi-passive business - 3rd stream of income
4. Social Security - 4th stream of income
5. Their spouse works, or they get benefits from the spouse in some ways - 5th
6. Maybe they sit on a board or have an investment in a few companies as a Seed/Angel and now get royalties or some income -6th
7. Possibly receive military pension -7th

They won't all be like that. However the point is several of them would be impossible if #1 never happened.

Also notice, not all 7 are great income streams. Some prob amount to nothing like #4.

Seeing at what you have done with 7 different businesses, I guess you would belong to the first group, wouldn‘t you? As far as I can tell, there are no problems with many income streams, as long as you tackle them one by one, I guess.

Yes you must tackle each one, 1x1.

However, not all of mine bring income at the same time. I actually sold, abandoned, or rolled over some of them into what I have now. I am working on my 7th, but not all 7 are active.

.

 

[eliquid]

To continue with your AI/Machine Learning example... what type of SaaS product would you consider building since Google, MS, AMZ, already offer the tools and platforms for AI/ML? Would it be an information style product, or a unique implementation of AI/ML for a niche market?

This is where having domain authority or interest really comes into play.

You say that Google, MS, and AMZ already offer the tools and platforms for AI/ML. But do you yourself have interest in ML/AI or have domain authority in it?

Let's assume no, since you did no mention it below.

If you did have domain authority or interest in it, you would have played around with those offerings. If you played around with those offerings, you would see how they cater to very high level academics mostly. In short, there is no "easy" ML/AI toolset for beginners unless you know Python or understand Neural Networks, Markov Chains, etc.....

That right there is a gap. A gap you would have found if you had domain authority or interest in it. other gaps exist like data cleansing/normalization and data set training. Something that would be difficult for people and companies starting in ML/AI.

Example of filling the gap:
Pre cleaned and trained data sets in specific verticals, like say Legal or Higher Education ready for you to use in a easy way where you just connect your Sales Force/Sugar data to our platform via a simple plugin. "Instant SaaS" and results filling a possible gap.

There is always an angle.

Be a master of angles.

Like @SoftStone, I’m having a hard time coming up with a SaaS idea to get working on. A non-compete clause would preclude me working on anything related to my domain knowledge, and I’m having a hard time picking a topic/idea outside of my domain.

Things that interest me outside of my domain:
-Computer vision
-Health & fitness
-Hockey
-Video game design

This is why I don't sign non-competes. They are hard to enforce anyways, see if you can find a loophole or a way to get out of it.

Past that, you are now having to work in areas you have no domain authority in.

I did say prior that people with no domain authority can work in areas they have an interest in. While this is still an option, it's not the favorite or preferred.

I don't know much about any of what you listed, but what have you learned about video game design that was difficult for you? That could be your gap.

.

 

[johnp]

I wouldn't worry about your first 100 or first 1k. I would be worried with Churn.


Getting 100 or 1000 customers means nothing if they only stay with you 1-2 months. You will forever be in a pattern of failure.

^^^ That's a great point!

One book that really opened my eyes to this is the Automatic Customer by John Warrillow. It goes into all of the math of the subscription business. Churn rate seems so important. The viability threshold was also very interesting.

On a side note: I do marketing for a SaaS. I'm starting to find that we are getting a lot of traction from content marketing from the top of the funnel down. I'll write some content for specific audiences then use paid social to get it in front of people using FB ads. So much opportunity here.

 

[eliquid]

So basically being active in the industry results in a. finding a need to be solved and b. a target audience which to spar with and get as initial user if I understand correctly?

It can. Generally when you are active in something ( participation vs non-participation ) you find issues or problems. Example, you said below the idea you got was an inefficiency at your job. You were acitve in your job and found the issue. Compare this to someone with no job at all who dreams up an idea about an issue at someone else's job that they have no experience or participation in.

The idea I generated i got from an inefficiency I noticed at my job, but that doesn't realy translate well into a small or large initial adience.

How do you know it would not translate well into a small or large audience? What is small and what is large?

100 customers to me is a lot if I can get them paying $300 a month.

It's not the number of customers, it's the amount of revenue you can generate that should be "small" or "large".

Do you have experience in one of the 7 saas in which the solution/need was in a different industry? How do you tackled this? Would reaching out to people having the same problem (reddit/mail/linkedin) be a great way to validate a need ?

Thanks for your time and experience

If you look over the first answer in this specific post above, you can see how I handle experience and authority some. Based on this, I have never done a SaaS in an area/industry I didn't participate in or have experience in.

Example, I am coding up a crypto related SaaS a little each day on the side for 30-45 min a day. I am not a crypto expert and I am not a millionaire from crypto trading activities. No one knows me for anything crypto related.

However, I have been trading for quite some time and built my own algo's for trading and done a lot of research and investing. I know where my customers hang out and what their needs are.

That alone somewhat meets my experience and authority min.

On the other end of the spectrum, I know guys trying to do the same thing as me that I have talked to that have never put a penny in crypto, have no clue where crypto traders hang out and talk and what apps they use, and haven't ever backtested an algo before.. but they wanna build a SaaS in it ( my brother-in-law ) based on some crazy idea he has and they fact that "crypto is so hot right now"

Does that help bridge the gap on that thought process?

Authority can come in many shapes and sizes.

.

 

[amp0193]

When you add a new feature to your existing SaaS, ask yourself if you can make that feature it's own SaaS and simply build it out and let it off into the wild and see how it does on it's own.
.

It's not just SaaS. It's anything.

I've got a spin-off business happening because I needed the original product to meet the needs of my customers. It was worthy of it's own separate platform though.

Taking action leads to more and more opportunities. Ones you would never see if you were on the sidelines.

 

[eliquid]

Hard to say. How fast do you want this to go live?

If soon, you will need to work with a developer for sure.

If you can wait a year or 2, then I would say go for it yourself.

As far as mistakes to avoid:

1. Code in 1 language. Don't get distracted and think you need to do part of it in PHP, part of it in Ruby, part in Go, part in Rust, etc.

2. Always be thinking about the future. What if X person signs up and needs Y? What if this API provider goes bust in 6 months? etc. I am NOT saying you need to code that expectation in now, but at least be thinking about it and now it so that when it does happen, it isn't a surprise and by then you would have thought your way around itand can code in a solution quickly when needed.

3. Don't forget to backup. Have a backup for your backup.

4. People will NOT read anything. This includes your onboarding and directions on how to use the app/saas. They won't watch videos either. So this means your interface has to act natural and flow natural. Your interface is critical and needs to be even better than the actual code you write.

5. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to solve a problem well.

6. Don't get emotional. You're building something with your hands out of thin air so you will get attached to it. When someone else says something negative or bashes it, just remember they are not you and didn't create it and they are not bashing you personally.

 

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[eliquid]

If you are in authority in your topic that your SaaS is in, you know where your customers are.

Drink at the same waterholes as they do.

If you have to dip into PPC at the beginning, you are doing it all wrong.

You gotta create word of mouth. Once you do that, add on PPC or other tactics to keep the fly wheel moving faster.

.

 

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[eliquid]

Just for context, do you work on all your SaaSs at the same time?
Did you exit some of them? Are they managed by others?

The ones prior, I either closed down or rolled into the next SaaS.

My first SaaS, it did OK but wasn't really taking off. When I started my 2nd SaaS I closed down the 1st one and rolled all that code and it's customers into my 2nd one.

My 2nd one I had a partner. After a couple of years things didn't work out between us, so I closed that down too and rolled the ideas, code, and customers into my 3rd one.

etc, etc, etc.

So by the time I got to my 6th SaaS, it was pretty much the evolution of the all the SaaS behind it. Some of them did run by side by side at the same time, but the majority were versions of the prior SaaS rolled up into it.

As you mentioned multiple times,
you build everything on your own or at least the MVP,
and once it's validated and people pay you to hand it to someone else,
did I get it right? Can you elaborate more on that, more specifically:

I typically build everything myself, at least to the MVP. In some cases I have built past that myself too, in others someone else has helped build past that.

How is it possible to do everything by yourself?
Marketing, software dev, customer support, managing the business, etc...
With 10 users, it's possible but what about 100?

Getting to MVP, it is possible.

You might have overlooked that I have been building things online since 1998-ish. I started with HTML and quickly got into Perl and PHP/SQL, etc all before 2000 rolled around.

The same thing happened with marketing too. By 2000 I had already been buying PPC clicks from GoTo and manipulating pre-SEO by adjusting listings on DMOZ and Yahoo Directory.

I was doing millions on Facebook ads in 2008 as a top affiliate. I was bulk emailing to millions of emails in 2010. By 2013, I had forced Google to push out the Payday algo update for the SEO stuff I was doing.

Later I was handling the marketing budgets for Alibaba, John Deere, Virgin Group, and TeamViewer.

You start wrapping all that experience together and you find building out systems, marketing, and other stuff just comes 2nd nature to you. What might take someone a full week to do, I might get done and be confident about in 1 day.

Yes, it still takes time. But getting something to MVP might take me 2 weekends and since all my SaaS have been in the digital marketing industry, throwing my new SaaS into my existing SaaS customers and where they hang out is pretty much "already done". Managing the business, well that's not too hard either since a lot of the code, customers, and industry are related.

Even if I was building things in different fields, like Elon Musk.. I think I could pull it off too though.

All this experience means you:

1. Skip a lot of errors and mis-steps.

2. Already have frameworks in places for code, marketing, business, etc

3. Have confidence to make choices that you otherwise might stumble on or delay

4. Have answers to the most routine questions and how to answer them

You start by yourself and after it takes off you delegate to other people?

Sometimes. Many times I have just kept it to myself.

Sometimes I bring on a partner.

Sometimes I hire a VA to delegate to.

And btw, other than the great value on this thread,
You literally practiced being the "domain authority" by writing this thread.
To me, before reading this thread you were a stranger, and by showing
your value you became a domain authority, interesting! Walk the talk:--)

Thanks

 

[eliquid]

@eliquid could You answer in Your free time for my question (above) as well? Please, I could not find the answers in this forum.

I didn't answer because at the time I didn't really know what you were asking.

And I try to NOT answer posts, if the answer is somewhere else in the thread.

But I'll try for yours here.

Your question was:

@eliquid

I have a few questions about finding ideas for SaaS because I've found some conflicting statements in this forum.

I've read that the best idea to do business is just helping other people not focusing on money. So I understand that I should look for problems in some (random?) groups (FB, Reddit, etc.) and then create Landing Page, validate ideas for SaaS, create MVP and do marketing from the first day.

But I have recently read your answer that the best idea is to build SaaS around area/domain where we are an expert and people know us. I am expert in programming, my other activities are just passion. For instance, I love to do barbecue. I love grill a lot of different meets and fishes. But I'm not found that is place to do some SaaS ;p Maybe should I just find some domain which will be interesting for me, become an expert and then try do do SaaS?

I just totally don't know where i how should I look for ideas, communities etc.

It really comes down, who do you trust?

I lot of people who tell you to look for problems in some random groups:

1. Have never built a SaaS

2. Have never built a business

3. Have never done anything, but maybe guru out and then regurgitate what someone else told them.. who also never did anything

4. Their advice is like 20 years old, from a time and place when nothing was really online ( and it was easy ) and they built 1 thing doing this and got lucky and now spout this out as the golden grail of problem solving. However, things have changed since then and nothing is easy anymore like that.

5. What's any easier sell to the mass public? "You can build anything for anyone and make millions if you just follow this simple framework of researching reddit communities for problems once you buy my $400 course!" OR "You should be a domain authority and build to what you know and solve problems for people that way for free" - I'll let you pick, but the easy button ( the trap everyone falls for ) is in the simple research reddit, than to build on your authority ( for many reasons I won't go into just yet ).

Is what I said above 100% factual? No, I'm sure there are 1 or 2 outliers out there, but you will get that with anything, right?

Then, you have me. I've:

1. Built 7 SaaS products, building my 8th now.

2. Been making money since 7th grade ( 1988 ). Been making serious money since 2008 though.

3. Have done everything in digital marketing, and almost everything in web dev/programming

4. Been running different businesses, specifically online, since 1999

5. Self-taught, still do hands-on dirty work to this day.

Now, the above doesn't really qualify me to give any advice honestly.

But when it comes down to it, who would you rather trust? Random people on random forums like IndieHackers and even FLF, or people who play in this SaaS space and have a background you can verify ( look up SERPWoo or my name/handle online ) who also made a detailed AMA thread about the topic too?

At the end of that day, I could be a liar and the other random people on random forums with no verifiable background could be correct.

But if you were to put odds on the casino floor, I think most people would bet on maybe me.

I think that should answer a lot of questions for you.

For a more detailed look at the other question/thought you brought up:

But I have recently read your answer that the best idea is to build SaaS around area/domain where we are an expert and people know us. I am expert in programming, my other activities are just passion. For instance, I love to do barbecue. I love grill a lot of different meets and fishes. But I'm not found that is place to do some SaaS ;p Maybe should I just find some domain which will be interesting for me, become an expert and then try do do SaaS?

I just totally don't know where i how should I look for ideas, communities etc.

You're an expert in programming. Build a SaaS around programming.

You prob know more than the lay person on BBQ, so build a BBQ SaaS.

You could find another topic and become an expert, but you will lose time in learning it, instead of building now.

But your last line shows me you still are not getting it... you said -

"I just totally don't know where i how should I look for ideas, communities etc"

No where in my thread did I ever say or speak on, look for ideas and look for communities. No where.

Why?

Because all through my thread I said over and over and over again:

When you are the authority, you already know the ideas and where the people/community hangs out.

If you have no clue where BBQ or programming people hang out, or what ideas they need solved.. you are not the authority on that domain.

Because if you really were an expert/authority on programming, you would know where other programmers hang out, because you are one yourself and would know where YOU would go. And YOU would know what ideas need to be solved, because you have run into needs/wants as a programmer you need solved, right?

Same is true for ANY domain.

If you don't know the ideas because you haven't experienced the wants/needs AND YOU ALSO don't know the communities and places they hang out and ask questions and seek help or generally read for news and updates...

Well, you aren't an authority enough in that topic to build a SaaS for it.

What topics do you know the communities hang out, and what topic have you experienced wants/needs in?

That's your SaaS market.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Hey Eliquid,

I've been wanting to start my own Saas for a long time.

Do you code yourself and handle the technical stuff hands on (or at least initially like @James Fend) or do you always try to partner with someone and you handle the business and sales?

My biggest problem is the limit on time and energy to learn coding to get to the functional level. But no matter how I slice and dice it, unless I trust the dev completely, it's something I need to do myself.

Any advice when it comes to gauging demand and competition before setting out for a build?

 

[c4n]

• Handling competitors

• Reducing churn

• Fraud reduction

• Technology for SaaS needs

• Big Data ( billions of new data points daily over years )

• Increasing LTV

• APIs

• Pricing

• Onboarding

• Project management

• Marketing

• Customer service

• Partnerships

• Customer demos/profiles, MVPs, UVP's, ahHa moments, etc

• many many more things

I for one would absolutely love to hear your input on ALL of these points. Like a quick summary/lessons learned guide maybe?

 

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[I Am I Said]

For @c4n - Technology for SaaS needs

[snip]

Generally the simplest solution is actually the right solution for a lot of issues and choices.

.

Fantastic post in a great thread, thanks very much for getting this out there.

If someone needed to dive in and learn a set of technology in order to build, first, some MVPs to test out, would php be a good direction? What about frameworks? Or even crazier, what about building MVPs in wordpress?

Just feeling my way here, wanting to settle on one technology direction and take off.

 

[maverick]

Another great post, thank you. I am amazed on how much insight and improvements come from working with analyzing simple data such as last login or number of logins in X days.

I was wondering how do you determine your core user sets? Do you outright ask them, survey them, is this a best guess, or? I know some services have a "your position: ceo, owner, freelancer, ..." selection at signup.

You can segment people based on the actions they take e.g. the pages they view on your website or the links they click in your emails. For example, you could include 3 pieces of content in your first onboarding email. #1 would be the best resource for a CEO, #2 resource for owner, #3 for a freelancer. Dependent on which resource they click, you can tag them.

Another approach would be to use a tutorial tool such as Appcues. In this example, Canva explains how they use Appcues to provide a better onboarding experience. Again, based on the onboarding option they choose, you can tag customers.

How Canva’s Growth Team Improves Activation +10% [Case Study]

If you have a large enough userbase, run a RFM study + cluster analysis to determine your most valuable customer groups. Then dig into their variables (e.g. demographics/psychographics/whatevergraphics).

RFM (customer value) - Wikipedia

 

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