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Are you an ENTP and wonder why you can't get things done when working for yourself?

LifeTransformer

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srodrigo

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You're all over the place. INFP has absolutely nothing to do with INFJ, nor does INTP with INTJ.
Things aren't either black or white. I'm INFJ, but my J is only 51-53%, so I'm actually in between. Same for other people.
 
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srodrigo

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Ah, another fresh piggy straight from 16 Personalities dot com. Since you already wasted my time by making me click the notification, I'm about to unleash sacred wisdom onto you. Listen carefully, my son.
Wow! Despite your sacred arrogance, you must have deep insecurities/issues to reply like that just because someone disagrees, in a respectful way, with your binary view of the topic. Take care of yourself.

P.S.: Reported.
 
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BellaPippin

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While Ne dominants, especially in combination with Ti weigh many possible scenarios and have a hard time figuring which one is the most plausible.

That rings true as something I do often. I find it hard to make a stance and take a "side" on controversial topics. I find valid arguments and conflicts in both as soon as I try to learn more. A ton of questions of the tests are "well yes, but there's a lot of exceptions to that" "well no, but what's the context?" Like "You find your time alone more interesting and satisfying than with people" Well, is it a group of strangers, acquaintances or my best friend or my boyfriend? What am I supposed to pick? Both are true. Everything is valid. I love being alone, in silence, at home, at peace, and yet I've been director on the Chicago UN board, attended a ton of network events, and even gave a talk in DC at a leadership conference and went knocking on the door of IL senators. If you put me on the stage, I'll perform. I might need a week to recover but I'll summon my inner extrovert as much as I can. It's draining though, that's why I'm an I 100%. But the other functions.. not so easy.

I've never dug deep into the functions because I really can't handle that much data... the big picture already gave me enough insight. Guess I'm fine with being IN_ _ xD

The glorified horoscope is kinda true. It feels like the same kind of mental masturbation when reading my cancer descriptions. It's more like a guilty pleasure rather than something I take very seriously


P.S. I keep editing this post because I keep coming up with things to say. Then editing it to make it more readable. Then adding again. Lmao
 
Last edited:

AidenRafi

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I am so impressed by this.

As a fellow ENTP i have so much knowledge on different subjects but it is usually at a level that makes me look smart rather then have a deep enough understanding to take actions i want to take.

The deeper knowledge comes from action > trial > error > action.

I was organically trying to utilise what you say about building something based on your exploration since coronavirus hit and I had a lot more time.

This really cements the idea for me.

Not sure if you mentioned it but similar to blogging, you can also do youtube videos explaining what you have learnt, that is something i am looking to do once I have finished my current project.

Thank you.
 
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BellaPippin

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I took it three times, first I started skipping any question that wasn't a "oh yea this is me", then it didn't let me skip anymore, then I went with a "3 second time" gut feeling answer to rule the kinda vague ones. It needed the full 40 questions every time o__o


34853 34854 34855
 

Simon Angel

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You got me at hardcore memelord, lmao!

Thanks for taking the time to check thru my posts to give some perspective! That "I went through high-school thinking I was an INFP but I was just a depressed ENTP" rung a bell for sure. It makes sense when you think the tertiary and last functions don't develop after your 20s and beyond which makes people wrongly think they change types, and I super feel like I've added a lot of tools to my personality in the past years, or sort of had some attitudes replace others (example: becoming much more assertive)

You're welcome, Bella. It's really hard to type yourself when you're an ENTP (a random dude in reddit who's also an ENTP managed to type me, I was stuck between INTJ and INFP) so I'm happy to help out.

Yup, it does make sense, and your whole rationalizing with an open mind approach (Ti + Ne) here in this reply has convinced me even more.
 

Bekit

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For a detailed account you can consult this resource :


Its great as it's very thorough and also starts with an extensive disclaimer against common misconceptions.
Thank you for sharing this link. Awesome resource!

It has taken me a while to get through it, and I still have more to read, but what I've read so far has been super helpful.

So it seems my stack is Ti-Ne-Si-Fe.

I'm curious if you or @Simon Angel have any tips on how to communicate effectively and live harmoniously with people whose stack is the opposite (e.g. Si-Fe-Ti-Ne or any combination where their S & F are Dominant or Auxiliary).
 
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Simon Angel

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Thank you for sharing this link. Awesome resource!

It has taken me a while to get through it, and I still have more to read, but what I've read so far has been super helpful.

So it seems my stack is Ti-Ne-Si-Fe.

I'm curious if you or @Simon Angel have any tips on how to communicate effectively and live harmoniously with people whose stack is the opposite (e.g. Si-Fe-Ti-Ne or any combination where their S & F are Dominant or Auxiliary).

Read up on what each of those functions values most. It's usually the exact opposite of what you do. For example:

Dominant/Auxiliary Ti: Seeks answers, rationalizes everything, comes to own conclusions after thoroughly weighing both sides. Questions authority. Usually appears arrogant due to trusting their own thoughts and opinions over those of the status quo.

Tertiary/Inferior Ti: Does things without stopping to question what, why or how, avoids rational explanations (trusts higher slot functions like Si or Fe), finds it difficult to form own conclusions and seeing and understanding things from both perspectives. If dom/aux Si, will always obey the rules and authority, will do things they way they think they should be done, or the way people think they should do them.
 

Bekit

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Read up on what each of those functions values most. It's usually the exact opposite of what you do. For example:

Dominant/Auxiliary Ti: Seeks answers, rationalizes everything, comes to own conclusions after thoroughly weighing both sides. Questions authority. Usually appears arrogant due to trusting their own thoughts and opinions over those of the status quo.

Tertiary/Inferior Ti: Does things without stopping to question what, why or how, avoids rational explanations (trusts higher slot functions like Si or Fe), finds it difficult to form own conclusions and seeing and understanding things from both perspectives. If dom/aux Si, will always obey the rules and authority, will do things they way they think they should be done, or the way people think they should do them.
I noticed.

And I happen to be married to one. :rofl: :eek::clench::inpain:

I can read and analyze to my heart's content, but at the end of the day, I'm not good at operating in the social/emotional stuff. So I was just curious if anyone had any tips or real-world experiences that you've found to be helpful when communicating with others.

I was discussing this topic with someone recently, and they made this comment:

"Here’s an interesting thing to keep in mind: In a 60 minute time frame, you’ll spend approximately 30 min in your dominant, 15 min in your aux, 9 min in your 3rd function and 6 min in your 4th function. So you start to tune out & feel restless in 6 minutes if somebody’s operating in your 4th function."

This is obviously an exaggeration, as no single hour is going to be that cut-and-dried.

But I did find it insightful to observe that I'll start to tune out in 6 minutes if somebody’s operating in my 4th function.

I've started to watch for this, and it seems to be true.

The flip side also seems to be true. If I'm communicating in my Dominant function, and it happens to be someone else's 4th function, THEY tune out really quick.

So I started to wonder how I could communicate in Si or Fe in order to keep their attention longer.

And it turns out I have absolutely no clue how to do that.

It seems like this might be a learnable skill, though. Kind of like learning a language. I'm not sure where to start, and my thinking about how to proceed is rudimentary at the moment.

But if I want to hold the attention of a Si or Fe, maybe I simply insert more sensory details into my conversation. Or I incorporate more emotion words.

Or I study the speech patterns of someone who is Si or Fe dominant and mimic their patterns.

It'll probably feel "fake" or "irrelevant" to me to communicate that way.

But---I know how it feels when I'm talking with another person whose dominant function is Thinking, and I'm like, "YESSSSS! FINALLY! Someone who THINKS!"

So I want to gain the skill of giving THEM that same feeling (even if it's a weak/lame version of it) when their stack is different than mine.

Example: Let's take the hubs.

ISFJ.

So he's Si-Fe-Ti-Ne

Same functions as in my stack, but different order.

He tunes out when I communicate. And I tune out when he communicates.

Awesome.

So what if I could strategically communicate using his preferential cognitive process? That's what I'm trying to figure out how to do.

Has anyone else experimented with this or gotten anywhere?
 
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Simon Angel

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I noticed.

And I happen to be married to one. :rofl: :eek::clench::inpain:

I can read and analyze to my heart's content, but at the end of the day, I'm not good at operating in the social/emotional stuff. So I was just curious if anyone had any tips or real-world experiences that you've found to be helpful when communicating with others.

I was discussing this topic with someone recently, and they made this comment:

"Here’s an interesting thing to keep in mind: In a 60 minute time frame, you’ll spend approximately 30 min in your dominant, 15 min in your aux, 9 min in your 3rd function and 6 min in your 4th function. So you start to tune out & feel restless in 6 minutes if somebody’s operating in your 4th function."

This is obviously an exaggeration, as no single hour is going to be that cut-and-dried.

But I did find it insightful to observe that I'll start to tune out in 6 minutes if somebody’s operating in my 4th function.

I've started to watch for this, and it seems to be true.

The flip side also seems to be true. If I'm communicating in my Dominant function, and it happens to be someone else's 4th function, THEY tune out really quick.

So I started to wonder how I could communicate in Si or Fe in order to keep their attention longer.

And it turns out I have absolutely no clue how to do that.

It seems like this might be a learnable skill, though. Kind of like learning a language. I'm not sure where to start, and my thinking about how to proceed is rudimentary at the moment.

But if I want to hold the attention of a Si or Fe, maybe I simply insert more sensory details into my conversation. Or I incorporate more emotion words.

Or I study the speech patterns of someone who is Si or Fe dominant and mimic their patterns.

It'll probably feel "fake" or "irrelevant" to me to communicate that way.

But---I know how it feels when I'm talking with another person whose dominant function is Thinking, and I'm like, "YESSSSS! FINALLY! Someone who THINKS!"

So I want to gain the skill of giving THEM that same feeling (even if it's a weak/lame version of it) when their stack is different than mine.

Example: Let's take the hubs.

ISFJ.

So he's Si-Fe-Ti-Ne

Same functions as in my stack, but different order.

He tunes out when I communicate. And I tune out when he communicates.

Awesome.

So what if I could strategically communicate using his preferential cognitive process? That's what I'm trying to figure out how to do.

Has anyone else experimented with this or gotten anywhere?

You shouldn't be needing to communicate (at least verbally) in your tertiary and inferior functions in order to please anyone, even your partner. Are they communicating in Ti and Ne? Probably not. There's a balance currently just how it should be, why would you ruin that balance?

You will naturally become more like eachother over the years and you'll end up meeding in the middle at some point in terms of function development. Heck, I've been with my ESFJ girlfriend for a little over a year and we've grown so much (she's still terrible at using Ne and Ti, but she has her moments of revelation) and I still don't make my bed in the morning (unless we make the bed in the morning together), but I'm putting in the same effort to build my business every day, following a strict diet and workout regime (never had a problem with that though) and washing the dishes, sorting and folding my clothes in one designated location rather than throwing them everywhere in the apartment. I also cook for myself every day. These are all examples of Si, my inferior function (it's likely at least as strong as my tertiary at this point though, I've been working hard on it since I was 13).

In fact I've found out that my girl gets extremely turned on whenever she sees me cooking or doing the dishes. The other thing I found out is that I like doing the dishes. So it's been a win-win so far.

Which shows that you don't need to communicate (at least verbally) in said functions, but you can him that you're putting in effort to be more like them! You shouldn't expect the same in return, but it's very possible they'll try to engage you in your higher functions as well after they see you're doing this.
 

Equilibrium

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So what if I could strategically communicate using his preferential cognitive process? That's what I'm trying to figure out how to do.

Has anyone else experimented with this or gotten anywhere?

Here's something I used to do as a salesperson. I learned this not through psychology after learning a vocabulary of pathos ethos logos from Aristotle.

It boils down to speaking the language the person is seeking.
Not ''parroting'' not ''matching their frame of stance'' and not half of the garbage call centers think is vital to sales.

I might be half asleep in my chair, clipping my nails but the person on the phone feels understood.
They might even be ecstatic with the conversation, simply because I'm speaking their language.




Logos
I want to know does it work? How does it work? What are the details of making it work?

Get me as a customer, and I want details. I like the dull, dry nitty-gritty information.
Drape the timing chain over the cam sprocket and hold it in place with one hand while working the chain around the crank sprocket with your other hand.


Pathos
or the emotional appeal means to persuade an audience by appealing to their emotions.
This kind of person wants an emotional story. The whyyyyyy something is being done, not the how.
These people want the tear-jerking story, the deep-seated validation from hearing a success or misery from another person's mistakes.
Hear the incredible story of the camel who could!

Then there is the Ethos the less understood and hard to describe my myself type
(Thus demonstrating the differences between personality by my confusion)

establishment of credibility using a well-known name
Katy Perry wears THIS perfume.
Study dead bodies like Jake Paul!


These are also defined as ''different learning styles'' or different personalities. Whatever label you slap on it, people have other ways to communicate.

Have you ever spoken with someone who makes you grit your teeth because they just ..are not making sense?
While the words they speak are English, their language is confusing, and because of this, their conversation becomes infuriating, sad, or nicht wichtig

Put yourself in the shoes of a customer who is color blind in a store selling beds with no accessibility, and you will see what I mean. Just check the colors! They say as they start to dart away.
To you, it means something very different, not unlike someone suddenly speaking french in the middle of a sales pitch.

Ah Bourgeoisie! they exclaim, and you storm out being called a burger.
Or when being shown swatches the bright purple they point to is a dark blue, and the ''cherry-red'' is brown.

And when the person doesn't understand how colors work (because to you that's how colors work)
then you start to see the disconnection happening between everyday conversations with different types of people.
Like a radio wave on the wrong station, it comes out not clear, or not pleasant. Sometimes, it is not at all.

While people aren't radios, you can still tune in to what they are trying to say because (thankfully!) there are only a few frequencies they use.
And you can make yourself heard by speaking their langue if they aren't bright enough to speak yours.

Take each phrase you intend to say and spin it thrice.
Once for the emotional, Once for those seeking authority, and finally a sprinkling of details.
Some will press for details, Others will be more emotionally invested, and finally, some will be swayed by other words.
 
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lofi

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You might want to look into cognitive functions to have a better grasp of you being INTP or INTJ.


This test below is fairly good. Better to look at the functions stack rather than 16personalities test(which is based on big 5, not myers briggs).

I took this one as well. I got ENTP for grant function type and myers function type. I got INTP for Myers Briggs type but the I was so faint, it was almost invisible. This confirms a lot of what I knew already.

I highly recommend reading a book called

"Do What You Are: Discover the Perfect Career for You Through the Secrets of Personality Type"​

if anyone else here is as unsatisfied with their direction as I am. It gave me some insight and confirmation into what my strengths and weaknesses are.

By the way the top 3 occupations listed for ENTPS were

• Entrepreneur
• Inventor
• Management consultant

I also found another site that has a type test. Run by a neuroscientist from UCLA.

What was said earlier about hard deadlines is very true. You need the external push to get things done, and when working for yourself that's often not there. I've been toying with the idea of a software accountability system that's designed to help you stay on track with a partner. Targeted towards solopreneurs and founders. I already use a lot of software blockers and feel this might be useful.
 

seraphine

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I don't really believe in MBTI but I have ADD apparently and I'm always missing deadlines, etc. because I just end up following my curiosity from one thing to another, so this is super helpful and empowering—thank you so much!
 
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Remiremi

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Maybe you'd like Roam/Obsidian or Milanote.
Or even Left -> Left by Rek & Devine


And before I read further (it took me 5 hours to get to page 3, I couldn't be less focussed today):
Thank you so much @Remiremi
You described me perfectly. I did the test 4 or 5 times in the past 15 years or so, always ENTP. ADHD (not diagnosed) and already my mum told me, 20 years ago "You just don't do the stuff you find boring or see no sense in it (for you)".
Yep, exactly. But sometimes insights must mature, right? You didn't tell me anything new today, but today it finally .... seeded.
I wrote an introduction thread here some time ago and always wanted to come back but was ashamed everyone would tell me "wow, always hopping on and off" and "FOCUS!!111" and "bullshit you tell yourself to not getting started". So it took me months to come back again and I think, if I hadn't seen this thread here it would have taken me more weeks or months to write my next post.
Now I'm more confident to write my next post (and atm I'm also motivated so I have to use that I think), also thanks for that!
(And now I finally know, why I'll never make a bug-fix version for the video games I made....)

Embrace the curiosity!

E:

View attachment 38144
So happy it helped you
 

Remiremi

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I understand what you are saying but I really need to achieve this goal in the next 3 to 9 months because I live in a 3rd world country and I want to further my studies in the US. I am a web designer by the way and I am following @Fox advice on how to scale that high.
So don't you think 18 months is too much

Then my advice is to aim for achieving it in 9 months not 3.

Find for yourself how you can do it with certainty in the next nine months.
And then PROMISE YOURSELF TO MAKE SMALL PROGRESS DAILY.


This is my advice, good luck
 
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Cojo

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Then my advice is to aim for achieving it in 9 months not 3.

Find for yourself how you can do it with certainty in the next nine months.
And then PROMISE YOURSELF TO MAKE SMALL PROGRESS DAILY.


This is my advice, good luck
Ok, thanks a lot.
 

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Which type description do you relate most with? Start with INTP and INTJ. I'm inclined to believe you're not an extroverted type.
I don't really know. The first time I ever took a personality test, I got Intp.

I think I am a mixture of INTP, ENTP and INTJ. I have the brainstorming of an INTP, I have a goofy side and love debating like an ENTP and I can make long term goals like an INTJ, although i find it hard to follow it due to low motivation or procrastination.

I am also act as a rebel, I not really into traditional or cultural stuff and hate the school system.

I heard that if you are struggling to identify if you are INTP or ENTP, then you must be ENTP. Is that true?
 
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Jemmalee

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I have kind of Laos track of this thread but spot the words ENTP and ADHD.
So wish to add that I (also have adhd and always get E/NTP) have done lots of research around fitting into this world with my type of brain.

Stumbled upon a book and a guy called Michael Ferguson- Drummer and the Great Mountain.

I now have regular online treatment/therapy with this guy who’s waiting list is months long.

Basically it’s ditching the ‘ADHD’ name given by ‘medical term’ and calling us HUNTER TYPES.

There’s 2 type of people in this world.
Hunters and farmers.
Once reading through the first 2 chapters (I listen on audible because cannot read /concentrate long enough) you would understand the logic of this and the history.

It basically spans the entire realm of what us Hunter types need to function in the ‘modern world’.
It has CHANGED MY LIFE.

Likewise TMF etc
I would highly suggest anyone that feels they have ADHD or just don’t understand why simple things are just so difficult - aka normal life stuff, to read it and delve further.
 

BlackSuperman

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Love the concept of this thread. Personality isn't permanent, but while improving certain characteristics, I believe knowing yourself as much as possible is a key factor in success.

Unfortunately not an ENTP, but ISTJ. But will be reviewing. Perhaps partnering with an ENTP is a good idea
 
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Simon Angel

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I took that John's personality test.

Got INTP (37) and ENTP (28)

Have always felt I was ENTP, but I never put much research into it besides the standard MBTI test.

Your post shows clear introversion, so you likely are INTP.
 
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DrScream

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Fellow ENTP here. I actually teach typology on YouTube at the moment and am looking to get into coaching in the near future. Been working with John Beebe's model of the 8 function stacks.

A couple resources I wanted to mention to everyone in case they're struggling:
Sources: John Beebe and his book "Energies & Patterns In Psychological Types"
Linda Berens and her book series "Understanding Yourself & Others"
Stephen Montgomery and his book "People Patterns"
C. S. Joseph and his YouTube content regarding typology.
 

DrScream

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PS. You are right, these do apply at least for INTP's as much as it does for ENTP's. :)
INTPs and ENTPs are fairly similar in their temperaments. They only really differ in that one is much more calculated (INTP) than the other (ENTP) in their interaction/planning thanks to that god damn Introverted Sensing function that ENTPs pretty much lack almost entirely...
 
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I am loving this conversation so much. Thanks Remi for starting!

I’ve always thought I was an ENTP. Well the first time I took a test it came out INFJ but I have taken many test over the years and usually got NT, often ENTP and I usually scored way high on the N over S and on the P over J - like 100% Perceiving.

That’s why I’m surprised with these two results from John’s test:

Test complete!
33% ENFP
23% ENTJ
21% ENTP

Test complete! (restart)
58% ENTJ
14% INTJ
8% ENTP
5% ESTJ
4% ENFJ

Btw, I have found this topic so intriguing that I’ve been trying to get through the whole thing before commenting. I’ve been taking notes. I’m about half way through. I can’t really let myself skim it because I like to fully understand. I don’t know if my slow rate of progress has to do with me getting interested in something else or the fact that I have 4 kids and 5 dogs to take care of while my wife is away, and lots of home improvement projects going on.

Many more questions to follow but just wanted to share that in case others can help me clarify.

I plan to learn a lot more about the cognitive functions next. Maybe I should do that before I stick with it and finish this thread. :)

P.S. I too am not a fan of 16personalities - I’ve gotten much more from Truity and reading David Keirsey’s ‘Please Understand Me II’.

P.P.S. One question about examples: when people point to actors like Tom Hanks or Matthew Perry, isn’t there a danger that they are referring more to the characters they play? Is it really going by interviews/biography/etc. or rather looking at Chandler Bing, the old guy in Big, or Woody from Toy Story?
 

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ENFP and ENTJ both share extraverted thinking and introverted feeling (Te, Fi) so they can sometimes be mistaken for one another (but only at first glance).

You're definitely showing signs of a divergent, non-linear thought process, which points to extroverted intuition (Ne), the dominant function of both ENFPs and ENTPs.

I have ENFP friends and while we do share a bunch of traits, it's very easy to differentiate between us - ENFPS tend to be happy-go-lucky, optimistic, universally-liked people (like you) while ENTPs are often dark, realistic, and can be considered by some as assholes.

I

Haha thanks! Appreciate that on many levels, Simon. ENFP it is for now (see how I’m keeping my options open).
—-
Wow! Yay! I finished this thread (if anyone can ever truly say it’s complete… i have a dozen things to download, watch, hold on Libby, etc). But yes I am congratulating myself ;-)

Thanks again Remi and Simon and so many others who have contributed. In the past, I have studied this topic in-depth, taken many tests, even built my own, but never before this had it clicked so much. I even had many misconceptions corrected - for example, it’s not a spectrum. The test that says your 51% extroverted doesn’t mean your almost introverted… it means the test is at 51%. And ya gotta take that test result and dig deeper to discover the truth.

In addition to John’s test, I found the greatest benefit in going through the cognitive functions at the Tumblr blog. Yes it’s long and in-great-depth (and that stopped me in my tracks when I tried to visit in the past) but it is great. For anyone still struggling to know thyself, I highly recommend. It really helped me get over many doubts and uncertainties and narrow it down, step by step.

Next question: For the past 10 years, I have seen myself as an Explorer-Inventor. And the day I came to that realization was a good day - felt so clear finally.

But…

Who NEEDS an explorer?

That may sound existential but what I really mean refers to MJ’s CENTS framework and creating a business that serves needs/solves a real problem for a group of people. I am really trying to commit to a Need that I can then persist in to have ultimate financial success.

I can see that many would pay for a great invention, and maybe at the end of the day, that is where we explorers must get (damn I think I am answering my own question)… we have to get that thing made. We can’t just travel and explore… we must bring back (or make) the treasure!

Can I really ignore all the Grit advice and just temporarily focus on one of “Jim’s whims” for a while and actually get to a place where I am serving many (and putting food on the table for the family)?
 
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