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Are all online coaches scammers?

Kung Fu Steve

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I think while it's more obvious online, a lot of people just suck at what they do for a living.

I've met servers who can't remember an order... I've met teachers who don't know their subject... I've met football players who can't catch a ball... and of course I've met coaches who can't coach themselves.

Fat fitness coaches, emotionally unstable life coaches, broke financial advisors -- hell the reason I liked MJ's first book so much was he straight up called out these financial coaches and gurus "what came first, your book or your black card?"

I guess you'd call me a professional coach. But the term is off-putting to me these days. Everyone with a Facebook account says they are a "life coach" -- the boss man calls me a Peak Performance Strategist -- and I make the advertising department call me a Business Strategist... but that's all semantics...

Let's get back to your point:

The problem is that their value proposition is a bit weird... they will sell you the HIGH TICKET course (couple of thousand bucks) and they will promise you, actually they do not really guarantee anything, that you can get let's say $1000 M.R.R. in 6-9 months if you follow their process.

Taking people from ZERO to a Thousand is probably the hardest thing on the planet.

I would never do it.

Any business starting out needs to beg, borrow, and steal to get those first few customers. And if they can't hustle to get that figured out -- I don't know who can help them. I sure as hell won't.

The philosophy of "I need you to guarantee me" is not the philosophy of success. I'm not thinking of guarantees, I'm thinking "alright if I get one thing out of this that makes me money, then I'll be happy."

and you will not achieve the results I am saying you will achieve, then I will give you all your money back - that is my guarantee.

I've gone back and forth on this over the last few years. I don't make offers to every person I talk to anymore. If they are looking for an out at the beginning of a program, I know they are going to be a pain in the a$$ to me down the road.

SO IF THEY MARKET THEIR COACHING SERVICE AS A WAY TO GET MONEY... THEY SHOULD GUARANTEE THE MONEY AT THE END OF THE COURSE... THE SAME WAY AS UDEMY COURSE ABOUT PHOTOSHOP WILL GUARANTEE YOU THE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT HOW TO WORK WITH LAYERS. If there is a bit of luck involved in the process, then they should market their product as such and see if they still can get so many people on board.

Here's a distinction:

It is illegal to make income claims.

I was once watching an interview with some very successful Silicon Valley CEOs talking about getting business partners and mentors... and they said it starts as a common interest and friendship, it is not based on business transactions like give me money and I will coach you how to be successful (those successful people do not need to waste their precious time for getting scrape money).

The silicon valley folks are odd ducks but yes, you see the point.

When you hit a certain level, you meet people who have particular skills. I have 3 buddies right now I pay a couple thousand a month to just so they can look at my stuff and catch things I could be doing better.

And if I'm honest, the money is just a token of gratitude because their time is FAR more valuable than the piddly couple thousand bucks (I'm definitely the lucky one in those transactions)

But you're talking about 2 very different things. You're trying to find someone who will help you make $1,000 a month... that's a different beast than "I have a hundred-million dollar company and I need to raise more capital to acquire my competition... what VC's do I know that I could pay to consult and give me some connections?"

...BUT if there is not a money-back guarantee, actually not guarantee at all, then I think it screams a SCAM. They should sell the CRASH COURSE TO COPYWRITING or SALES 101 instead... not mentioning any money at all.

I used to do all kinds of stuff. 200% money back guarantees, take all the stuff and still get your money back guarantees -- now I'm just so damn busy I don't do it at all.

Do it or don't do it. Personal responsibility. If someone asks me what the guarantee is, I simply ask "is that important to you?" -- if they say yes, I refer them to somebody else. I just don't want to deal with it.

I hear your frustration through this post my man but let me maybe shine some light:

  • Taking a class to learn something is different than "hiring a coach"

  • If your goal is to make $1,000 a month... that's $12,000 a year... you can make that working at McDonalds. It's not worth the pain, struggle, and insanity of building a business if your goal is to make 12k/year.

  • Stop looking at Udemy courses to try and get rich.

  • 99.99% of all coaches ("online" or "offline") suck.

  • One of the best "coaches" you'll see is MJ. Read the books. He put all of his advice in there.
 

biophase

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* If they have profitable business themself, why they want to bring others to space, teach them a "secret" and make a competition for themself... For example, someone teaching about how to make 6 figures e-commerce, instead of building another one for themself (they can outsource almost everything).

So, to make a summary... why if some coach out there which does not want to be perceived as a scammer, will not put an amazing value proposition with a money-back guarantee for their mentees. And as I said above, you can always find a way how to track the progress of people, IT IS A MENTORING AFTER ALL... think about the milestones similar to UPWORK, there is a way for sure to filter out people who do not want to work (no money back guarantee for them).

...BUT if there is not a money-back guarantee, actually not guarantee at all, then I think it screams a SCAM. They should sell the CRASH COURSE TO COPYWRITING or SALES 101 instead... not mentioning any money at all.

So I just wanted to respond to these statements and give you the perspective from the other side.

I have 3-4 ecommerce businesses and at some point, you just don't want to build another business. Been there done that. I mean, how many shopify stores do you expect a person to manage? Let's say I put 1 employee in place to manage 4 shopify stores. Now what? Should I start another one? Or maybe I'd rather just start showing people how to do what I do?

On your next question about guarantees, the reason there are no guarantees is because we don't have control of the client's actions. If you were a personal trainer, could you guarantee your client that he will have six pack abs in 6 months? What if he just wanted to eat pizza everyday? Then what do you do?

I can show you and tell you to do things, but if you don't do them, should you get your money back? How about if I mentor you for $8k and you don't do things that I tell you to do, them you pay $8k more because you've wasted my time. Would you take that deal?

In my past mentoring, I have had some clients never call in after the 4th week. They just disappeared.
My mentoring class was between 5-10 clients for 6 months. Some succeeded and some did not. I actually feel very bad when my clients don't succeed. I had about 50% success rate. But they all got the exact same information. So why the difference in results?

It is because each client chose different products, they all had different budgets, some worked harder than others, some had personal issues come up and sometimes it was just bad luck. So how can I as a mentor guarantee anything will all these variables?

Here's the thing, I don't need to convince you that it is not a SCAM. In fact, I didn't accept anyone that asked for a guarantee. This is because I already know that their mindset is not correct. They aren't 100% committed to the process because their first thought it worrying about losing their money. Remember, I have to talk to you for 6 months if I accept you. So I don't want to be talking to someone that is thinking that I might be scamming them.

My friend had someone pay him $10k for mentoring. After their first call, my friend gave him his $10k back and said, this wasn't a good fit.

And I'll leave you with this story. Someone on the forum that took my early mentoring for $5k. I let that person pay me $2500 the first month and $2500 the second month. Well, he paid me only $2500 for one month and then said he didn't need more mentoring. Two years later I met him at the summit meetup. His business was doing really well. I told him, "hey, you never paid me the $2500. Just a word of advice, you should always honor you commitments." I wasn't sure if I should bring it up, but I figured it would be a good lesson for him. He apologized and he didn't realize that he never paid me. I told him I didn't want the $2500 but gave him the name of a dog rescue and said you can donate the money to this rescue if you want. A few weeks later the dog rescue got the donation, which was really cool.
 

biophase

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No it does not mean spaghetti method. It means doing your due diligence for each product as much as possible and if it fails, learn why, and execute again.

All knowledge I see are the same as all the other “Amazon courses.” I have seen examples of what he does for product development and they are incredibly low barrier products.

I am not a fan of the strategy, but I guess a lot of people are here: Bullding a business to sell, but not a long term one. New business owner stuck with a business with faulty foundation. But who cares right? You sold out...

Well, it's too bad that he got deleted before I could reply to him. I'm sure he doesn't know more than 10% of what I do, but that is fine. Too bad he was here for so long and never learned anything.

To be honest, during my mentor course, due to budgets of my clients, we had limits on what we could do in terms of launching products. If someone only has $5-$10k to launch, we are very limited on product development.

The ironic thing is that Morevalue trashes the $8k price and then says that you could have tried 8-10 products with $8k. LOL. Who is launching the shitty products now?

The reason I don't offer my mentoring anymore now is because I don't feel that I can successfully mentor people to launch on Amazon in 2020 within their lower budgets. You almost need $25k-$50k to get off the ground now as most sellers are now entrenched with many reviews and years of selling account weight. A new seller would have to put alot of time and money to get a foothold. It's more about brand building than launching products now.
 

MJ DeMarco

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Side note...

It's not often I get an email that states "Delete my account" which I don't question.

And can't do fast enough.

I wish him *luck* which I'm guessing he believes, most of success is.
 
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Martin Boeddeker

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Fortunately, some of the 0.01% of the coaches who don't suck, have threads here in the marketplace. :smile:

  • 99.99% of all coaches ("online" or "offline") suck.

  • One of the best "coaches" you'll see is MJ. Read the books. He put all of his advice in there.
 
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Walter Hay

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Why I don't guarantee success to my book buyers.

In the years that I have been publishing and selling my business books on safe sourcing and importing, labeling that acts as a silent salesman, and franchising (sell -don't buy) for rapid scaling, I have seen a few failures among my book buyers.

The reasons that I am aware of are:
  • Didn't bother to read the book.
  • Didn't bother to read more than the headings in the book.
  • Didn't follow the instructions in the book.
  • Didn't even read the contents list before ordering.
  • Didn't realize that work was involved.
Responsibility for success or failure must at least be shared by a reasonably diligent buyer.

I have refunded every one of them when they asked, and I continue to refund with no questions asked when a "customer" such as one of those listed requests it.

That is my guarantee. If for some reason, real or obviously invented they don't like what they have paid for, they get a refund. I guess that's why I have never had a bad review.

Walter
 

lowtek

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Our very own Biophase has run a personalized coaching program for eCom sales. I can attest to the legitimacy of his program, as my wife went through it.

So, no, not all online coaches are scammers.
 

lludwig

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Oh boy here it goes.

I sold my business 2 years ago. It was an affiliate marketing blog and sold it for $6M (see other threads on here by me for more detail).

I think I have some clue about digital marketing, affiliate marketing, SEO and CRO. I think many businesses need help in said spaces. They are struggling and IMHO can use help, or specifically my help.

Why not do it through coaching, courses, and consulting?

Are these not legit methods to help other businesses?

To put everyone who offers these in the scam category is doing a disservice to themselves and others.

I'm certainly not in the camp of 'faking till I make it' and don't care if you think I'm a scammer. I've achieved much in my life and not interested in trying to change your view of the world. You are long gone but there are people that DO want to help and see the value I can add to their business.

I've been doing this type of work for over 25 years now. I'm at a point financially and life where I'm doing it more to leave a legacy to help others. I like helping other businesses succeed, I want to see other business owners achieve success. Especially now where business owners have been shit on. Either because of local municipalities blocking them because of COVID or because of riots destroying their business.

Is that a bad thing I want to help entrepreneurs?

Should I do it for free? I say no for a number of reasons.

One is if you offer something for free people don't respect it, plus I've spent years developing my craft and should get paid for the time and research spent doing this. You are paying for a shortcut to avoid mistakes in your business.

I do think there are many 'gurus' (cough Tai Lopez) that only burn a hole in your pocket.

Though everyone could use help improving their business, why not take some guidance from a course? It is certainly much cheaper than one-on-one consulting.

The problem is how do you weed out the bad coaches? I don't have an easy answer to that but what I'm doing is weeding out the bad customers. Which I really didn't see discussed.

In my case, to weed out the 'wannapreurs', I'm targeting a customer base who already have an established business. Quite frankly, I've seen many here on this very forum who are 'wannapreurs'. Who at least read MJ's book, but don't do anything about it. They will keep doing the action faking but yet not building a business.

I have no interest in helping beginners at this moment via courses, coaching, or consulting. I will do it via articles on my blog though. Targeting courses to that market is a crowded market and is filled with crappy products which many are all-flash. So they will react to the fancy sports car and the lavish home.
 
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Fox

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If only a coach would put in a statement like...

"If I just show up you will guarantee me X amount of dollars or I get all my money back"

...then I will be in!

I mean if they are a good coach they will definitely do this yet?

lol

No one owes you anything and this thread has some of the laziest thinking around.
Yes some coaches are a scam.
No not every single person involved in teaching ever is a con artist.

There is a middle ground and if you can't see it then you are going to be the person who gets scammed.

If you guys can't even bother checking this forums own marketplace for coaching programs AND feedback left by many coaches and 100s of student over the last few years then best of luck.
 
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Vigilante

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I'm not a student or former student of Biophase but I think you are dead wrong here. I have never come across anyone who gives as much valuable information related to selling physical products as Biophase and he asks nothing in return. I can see being personally coached by him being easily worth much more than $8k, assuming you put to use what you learn.

You say that you can try 8-10 products with $8k. That probably means the good old "throw spaghetti on the wall and see what sticks" strategy i.e. ordering random products from Alibaba and hoping that they sell. The odds of finding a successful product that way are really low nowadays and I don't think you even learn all that much in the process..

I deleted his post which is one step away from him being banned from the thread which is one step away from him being banned from the forum.

We’re getting sick of his negative worthless shit posts “Bruh.”

We purge scammers from the forum. He’s not one of them. Someday you are going to say something to somebody that will then end up teaching you a lesson you will never forget.
 
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Fox

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When people teach especially in terms of business, it is a sign of failure or their current business isn’t doing well so they need an extra income source. Is this the type of person you want to learn from?

But...

33399

So which is it - some people can be good at business and like teaching others?

Or they are all scams?
 
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SDE

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Walter Hay

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When people teach especially in terms of business, it is a sign of failure or their current business isn’t doing well so they need an extra income source. Is this the type of person you want to learn from?
This is without a doubt one of the most stupid and totally unsupportable statements I have read. Without access to their financial records or news reports about such a failure, (if it happened) the idiotic statement was plucked out of thin air.
One is if you offer something for free people don't respect it, plus I've spent years developing my craft and should get paid for the time and research spent doing this. You are paying for a shortcut to avoid mistakes in your business.
Agreed. I found early on in my chemical business that when I gave out free samples they just gathered dust. When I charged for them, usually supplying at a heavily discounted price, they were used, most often leading to a sale.

The foundation behind what I have written in my three business books is:

Twenty years operating a business that I started from zero, including Nine years exporting my own products. Every customer I got was already buying from competitors. I gained a near monopoly. Sold business for 7 figures.

Twenty two years importing and B2B marketing. Captured the Australian market from an entrenched competitor who owned 90% of the market. Sold franchises in 4 countries to allow scaling.

Finally, this teacher/ coach/ mentor/Guru(?) gives away a huge amount of helpful stuff. Search my posts. You might find the one where I quote a Fastlane member who thanked me for saving him $3,000.

Walter
P.S. To those who only want freebies: I will continue to charge for my books containing those years of experience.
 

Andy Black

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Damn you scammer! Wannabe GURU.
Ha. Thanks.

Look. I’m being deliberately facetious to show folks what it can look like from the viewpoint of a producer.

Bear in kind:

1) It’s hard producing a course.

2) Some people genuinely like helping people.

3) Some people genuinely like teaching.

4) Some people don’t want to build big overheads or headcount.

5) Some people like being practitioners.


Sure, there’s charlatans out there, but I think it’s a case of buyer beware. Do your due diligence, and don’t tar everyone with the same brush.
 
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drahz

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Hi there,

Recently I was watching videos on Coffeezilla youtube channel and it got me thinking... are all "online gurus" scammers? Actually, it was nothing new to me that there are many online "entrepreneurs" coaching and mentoring people for money, promising the results which X% of people can easiliy achieve, if and only if they do the hard work and follow the process to the point.

The problem is that their value proposition is a bit weird... they will sell you the HIGH TICKET course (couple of thousand bucks) and they will promise you, actually they do not really guarantee anything, that you can get let's say $1000 M.R.R. in 6-9 months if you follow their process.

The problem is... if the coaches out there really stand for what they are teaching their value proposition should be... I will personally mentor you for 1 year and I know my stats -> 75% of people following my teachings can get at least $1000 / month in 6 months -> If you follow my process (and YOU CAN PROVE IT by giving me reports every week or month or something) and you will not achieve the results I am saying you will achieve, then I will give you all your money back - that is my guarantee.

There are countless times said... if you are selling your service or product you should at least 10x your value for the customer (compared to a product already in the market) to cut through the noise and get noticed. So if someone puts value proposition above with a money-back guarantee and they will refund only 25% customers (because their success rate is 75%) they still can get a very profitable business (and more clients as well).

What I think is very shady about many coaches and mentors out there:

* If they have profitable business themself, why they want to bring others to space, teach them a "secret" and make a competition for themself... For example, someone teaching about how to make 6 figures e-commerce, instead of building another one for themself (they can outsource almost everything).
...Or for example, someone teaching how to sell websites to the companies charging 20k per website... while they can build a software company, scale it, make a brand, hire people and step out of the process and still get a lot of money (Fastlane).
...Why to put the effort into building a course, mentoring people instead of scaling a company? - and this mentoring thing is more like a job because a mentor has to spend time with mentees and once the mentees know a thing they are gone and do it by themself - no money for the coach anymore.

* I think a successful mentor actively searching for mentees is quite a weird thing...did you ever see any executive from fortune 500 company begging for a mentee?... I was once watching an interview with some very successful Silicon Valley CEOs talking about getting business partners and mentors... and they said it starts as a common interest and friendship, it is not based on business transactions like give me money and I will coach you how to be successful (those successful people do not need to waste their precious time for getting scrape money).

* If somebody compares this mentoring thing to a let's say UDEMY course than it is not the same thing... If someone teaches you about copywriting or marketing and sales but they will only guarantee you knowledge but they will not be promising you any money as result... then I think they will not be able to get desperate people on board (wanting results more than knowledge) and also I do not think they will be able to sell it for a couple of thousands... SO IF THEY MARKET THEIR COACHING SERVICE AS A WAY TO GET MONEY... THEY SHOULD GUARANTEE THE MONEY AT THE END OF THE COURSE... THE SAME WAY AS UDEMY COURSE ABOUT PHOTOSHOP WILL GUARANTEE YOU THE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT HOW TO WORK WITH LAYERS. If there is a bit of luck involved in the process, then they should market their product as such and see if they still can get so many people on board.

So, to make a summary... why if some couch out there which does not want to be perceived as a scammer, will not put an amazing value proposition with a money-back guarantee for their mentees. And as I said above, you can always find a way how to track the progress of people, IT IS A MENTORING AFTER ALL... think about the milestones similar to UPWORK, there is a way for sure to filter out people who do not want to work (no money back guarantee for them).

...BUT if there is not a money-back guarantee, actually not guarantee at all, then I think it screams a SCAM. They should sell the CRASH COURSE TO COPYWRITING or SALES 101 instead... not mentioning any money at all.

What is your view on all of this "online coaching" thing?
 
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Andy Black

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I don’t guarantee results when I take on clients.

I quite like teaching, in small measures. But damn, I find it much harder than just doing the work. You’ve got to figure out where someone is stuck, why they’re stuck, and then how to help them get unstuck. It’s much easier for me to leave people to fend for themselves and just do the work myself.

My hat is off to teachers. Some people have a calling to help people learn and develop. I’m partly that way, but not wholly - I can’t be bothered if someone is lazy. I’m not there to wipe someone’s ar*e and I have little patience for rudeness or attitude. I’m glad people exist who really want to help those in society that can’t help themselves or have ended up with a poor attitude.

This is why I have courses but don’t do coaching. Sure, some may say I do a bit of coaching when I chat with folks, but honestly, I enjoy just chatting and I prefer just chatting.

My courses are related to PPC, and one day I may run PPC ads to direct people to them.
 
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Martin Boeddeker

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It depends. After interviewing a lot of these gurus and buying a lot of info products myself, as a rule of thumb I would recommend to stay away from everything that is pushed by ads and PPC.

The truth is:

This online coaching niche is a numbers game.

If there is no regulation these people get away with a lot of low-quality stuff because the numbers work for them.
 

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Why the hell would any one in their right mind buy a Chrysler?

I'm teasing you, But i've owned 2 and they were unreliable crap compared to my toyota now. You'll need that warranty if you buy a chrysler

I would buy that new Jeep Gladiator!

LOL It didn't help the reliability that I crashed it like 2 months after I bought it. Even the factory warranty wasn't worth the paper it was written on. I paid out of pocket for 2/3 of the things that went wrong with it.

It was a cool car at the time! It was the first of the new body style. I got black and chrome. Like an old school town car. Got a lot of compliments for maybe 18 months. I was also lobbying a lot, so American pride BRO! It was a very inoffensive car.

3 years in... I was getting pulled over by every other cop that saw me... Draw your own conclusions on that.

Now I have an S class that is going to make people think they should bill me more and an OLD Suburban that will make people think I am broke. :rofl:
 
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Walter Hay

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Thanks @biophase. What you have written clearly establishes that offering guarantees would be folly because the mentor cannot control the actions of the person paying for the course.

It also puts paid to the often repeated but totally false statement: "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach."

With the vast pool of knowledge accessible via the internet, another partly true statement is often thrown in: "You can find it all on the internet." Yes, possibly all the information needed to start and operate a business is there somewhere, BUT...

To assemble from Google searches all the knowledge that you have accumulated through years of practical, been there done that experience would take years if it is to be put together in a way that is as fail-safe as paying a genuine mentor to guide the process.

So many people want something for nothing, and when they can't get it they complain about how unfair it is that they have to pay.

Walter
 
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GuestUser4aMPs1

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Bruh...I saw the course was like $8k. Price alone is a scam. With that money, especially with the low barrier to entry product strategy. You can try at least 8-10 products with that money. Far more valuable to do that than a course or better yet pay for infrastructure to make your own products.

You fell for the inbound marketing and drank the Kool-aid
You're a royal idiot.

I know @biophase personally; dude doesn't need the money. Coaches anyway.

The price tag is what his time's worth. You want it for free? Dig through the threads.
 

Kak

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Are people allowed to guarantee results in their sales pages?

It depends, but something as fulid as being a coach, mentor or incubator leader... Guarantees are BS. Everyone has something different going on. It is an art not a science. There is no formula to apply and guarantee results.

I would say for folks that guarantee results... They just need to be ready to back it up financially. "Guaranteed OR (some kind of offer)."

I bought a Chrysler 300 in 2013... The dealership had "Warranty Forever" on the billboard... So I bought it from them instead of the other dealership. It had so many stipulations it was a total joke. Like a requirement to change tires every 20k miles, at the dealership. I don't even own that car now. LOL
 
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GuestUser4aMPs1

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Glad that loser's gone. But back on topic.

@drahz – to answer your question, I don't see coaches in general as scammers.

That said, I've rarely had a use for getting one.

You're paying a coach to give you a third person's perspective on any number of problems you have; Perspective that can be gained from tons of alternative sources...good books, trusted friends, business associates, you get the idea.

If you're looking for a "lightbulb moment," where something clicks for you – paying someone on retainer to do that for you is just odd, IMO.

But this is my personal experience.

The best "coaches" were figures in my life who never realized they were coaches in the first place. These guys are my heroes. They've "coached" me in ways they will probably never know, and it didn't cost a dime...
 

Andy Black

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I’m curious.

I provide Google Ads consulting for clients. I do the coal-face work, the sales chats, and the client management.

I’m happy with the revenue coming in from that and have no desire to hire in people to do the coal-face work (aka grow an agency). I don’t want to 2x never mind 10x my number of clients.

If I sell a course on how to run Google Ads campaigns does that mean I no longer have the ability to do the work? I mean, those that teach are those that can’t do the work right?

Should I also keep the revenue I make from selling courses lower than my consulting revenue? That would be a shame because I could help a lot of people get to grips with Google Ads.
 
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JohnForte

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Online coaching isn't a scam, just a lot of people that have imposter syndrome in my opinion. I think a lot of people that take the courses are looking for permission to be in an industry or feel like they need an authority to say "You are worthy of the keys to the kingdom". I think a lot of people would succeed without the courses.

Then you have some people that are lazy and want the shortcut. They would never succeed with a real course or not.
 

drahz

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I think they may or may not be scammers. IMO, the "legit ones" are only aiming to fulfill the need of those people who need a guide in order to start their own process.

Mentoring should be about providing value first.

If a mentor is about PROVIDING VALUE (not chasing money) for the RIGHT audience (audience which is able to receive the value), then this mentor should be very careful about who can get in as a mentee.

The mentor should be EXTREMELY REPULSIVE IN THEIR MARKETING to people who do not possess something crucial for attaining success. And if someone passed the very strict filter by accident, they can get a refund, after all, it is a mentor's fault to let them in knowing they will not get anything out of it.

But for a mentor who is proactively searching for mentees by running ads, hardy filter anyone out. Promising money even without ANY SKILL, stating that ABSOLUTELY ANYONE can do it, ONLY THING WHICH IS REQUIRED IS HUNGER TO BE SUCCESSFUL... With a statement like this, anyone can get in and most of the people will not get results, and unfortunately, there is also NO REFUND policy (compared to majority products on the market).

If the mentor put a statement like this in their marketing:

I can personally mentor you and show you my way to success, but let me be clear first... If you are not willing to work as hard as I did (read 12+ hours a day including weekends)... and even if you do, there are certain conditions outside your control and you might not get successful as fast as I did... ONLY THING I CAN PROMISE TO YOU IS YOU WILL GET SOME GEMS HERE AND THERE from my course BECAUSE THERE IS NOT A TEMPLATE FOR SUCCESS... All just for $2497.

The mentor will get many more people (and money) on board with a first statement, but the majority will not get success. With the second statement, only very few can get on board, but none of them would even think about refund.

So, if the mentor is not chasing money, they should put a very clear message in their marketing and filter out people who are not able to get results. The problem is most of the mentors do not want to cut their profit, so they let anyone in, and LAZY / STUPID / WHATEVER people not satisfied with results cannot get their many back.
 

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I bought a Chrysler 300 in 2013... The dealership had "Warranty Forever" on the billboard... So I bought it from them instead of the other dealership. It had so many stipulations it was a total joke. Like a requirement to change tires every 20k miles, at the dealership. I don't even own that car now. LOL

Why the hell would any one in their right mind buy a Chrysler?

I'm teasing you, But i've owned 2 and they were unreliable crap compared to my toyota now. You'll need that warranty if you buy a chrysler
 
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