Are 20-40 Years Old More Lonely Than Ever?

[MTF]

I've been noticing this problem more and more often recently: people in their late twenties/early thirties are lonely and have very few friends. Perhaps it's only limited to me, my girlfriend, and some people I know so I wanted to post this thread and figure this out. Here are a few thoughts to offer more detail:

• In my hometown, I have 0 friends with whom I meet up regularly. I had one friend until last year when his son was born. He had been telling me all the time that nothing would change when he would become a father (I never believed him) but now we talk only online. I think I saw him last time over six months ago. Before, we used to meet at least 2-3 times a week. My other friends who live in the same city have gone in a different direction in life and we don't really mesh that well anymore. We sometimes meet but usually I'm okay with just one meeting per 3 months or so.
• My other friends are almost exclusively virtual. We talk online but we rarely meet (1-2 times a year) or never. It's still good to be able to talk online but it's not the same as doing fun stuff together regularly and being spontaneous (impossible since they all live between 2-5 hours by car from where I live).
• Almost all our friends/people we know lack initiative. If I organize something, they will join but by themselves they almost never set up anything. This makes me feel that they don't really care much about the relationship. So in return, I don't put in that much effort anymore.
• In the case of my girlfriend, her friends have so little time that their lives are limited to work, home (with their partner), and their dogs. And we're talking about young people who supposedly should enjoy their youth.
• As sad as it is, unless I'm traveling or learning something new with a coach, this forum is usually the main way I interact with strangers. I do enjoy this but like I said above, I'd like to have some deep friendships with people I trust that share my values and are available to do fun stuff together. As it is now, whatever new things I do, I just hire a coach and sometimes he or she becomes my sort of friend.
• Speaking of traveling, I've found that it's usually way easier to find like-minded people when visiting places that interest us and match our values. But these relationships have the same problem: they're almost exclusively virtual. So in the end it's nice when you're there but it sort of dies when you're not there (which is kind of understandable if it's a new relationship).
• Curiously, we often see people way older than we are who enjoy rich social lives. Heck, I think that my parents may actually have more friends and a richer social life than I do even though they live in the countryside and rarely leave their homes lol.

What are your thoughts, experiences, suggestions, whatever else is on your mind?

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I think this is a problem, regardless of age.

To change it, you need to step up and be a leader. Good example here: Before leaving for Utah I mentioned get a poker game going, one last hurrah for myself, but I could not host or organize it -- so someone had to step up. As far as I know, no one did -- and if someone did, everyone flaked out in the end and it never happened. In short, I had to organize and lead to make it happen, or it wasn't.

I think person-to-person contact is so low on people's priorities now that actual human interaction is endangered.

Bottomline is you have to find people who enjoy the same things as you, and then make an effort to do IRL activities.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I think now people are more and more trying to replace IRL activities with virtual activities and it's making things even worse.

Yea, and you can thank Zuckerfuck for that. "Meta" this you F*ckstick.

 

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[Tiago]

The focus of 2021 for me was to build community. I was deeply longing for it, and felt incredibly lonely.

Focusing on relationships has produced the greatest amount of joy in my life.

Nowadays, it's not unusual for me to have activities with friends from Wednesday all the way to Sunday.

I think that yes, people are generally being more flaky and more isolated, but many are having the same exact thoughts as you and I.

So it does take energy, time and resources to build a community, but once it gets going, it's life-changing.

EDIT:

Just for a few ideas, I'm currently running a men's group, have monthly dinners at my house for neighbors, and I'm building a community of entrepreneurs.

 

[biophase]

I think this is a problem, regardless of age.

To change it, you need to step up and be a leader. Good example here: Before leaving for Utah I mentioned get a poker game going, one last hurrah for myself, but I could not host or organize it -- so someone had to step up. As far as I know, no one did -- and if someone did, everyone flaked out in the end and it never happened. In short, I had to organize and lead to make it happen, or it wasn't.

I think person-to-person contact is so low on people's priorities now that actual human interaction is endangered.

Bottomline is you have to find people who enjoy the same things as you, and then make an effort to do IRL activities.

Instead of going to a party be the one throwing the party!

I’ve always been the organizer of vacations. Almost every vacay that I took, I have organized. Most people don’t want to deal with the research, organization and payment collecting. I actually don’t mind it.

Having said that, you also need to go do what you like to do. That’s how you meet friends.

For example, 12 years ago I saw Havasupai falls on the Discovery channel. I asked all my current friends and they all were non committal. So I just signed up and went with a college group. I actually had a little anxiety and wanted to chicken out. It was because I didn’t know anymore else and it would be a long 3 days if I didn’t mesh with anyone.

In that group I got bunked with a college professor, ended up taking his class in Prague, met many great friends, that I still talk to.

Also in that group, I met this girl that was a personal trainer, hired her, and hiked Macchu Picchu with her, she moved to SLC and we are still friends today.

She introduced me to a masseuse who then introduced me to another personal trainer. I hired him and been with him 5 years. We are good friends and he comes up to visit me in Colorado every summer.

When I look back at my friendships they all came from random interactions. You gotta get out there!

 

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[SteveO]

Yes. We need more real adventure these days. Friendships develop as we go out into the world, so there's the truth. That's what MTF is saying too(meeting people on travels etc.)

Sadly, most people are stuck in their home city with time-consuming work repeating the same day over and over. They might live in their own bubble and develop a very close-minded mindset and perspective. I think that's why it's hard to break into them.

For example, I have a friend who I often invite to do new things with. But he would say no. No, that's not right. No, probably not fun. No. Always no to new things.
That's why it's important to take initiative as leaders and have even more energy to break them, and call them to adventure.
You seem to have that energy which is incredible.

Also, when men and women get married, for most in our society, the hero's journey seems to end, and life is dedicated to the familiy's journey. This also might need reformation.

My advice is to find groups that do things you like to do. Not to try and convert your current friends.

 

[Lex DeVille]

I was thinking about how to solve a different, but related problem. I think it is close enough to not warrant another thread. Since 2017 I've felt disconnected due to leading a different lifestyle from everyone around me. This has spiraled in and out of experiences of loneliness and depression.

I thought it was caused by a lack of close friends in real life, but now I think it is the lack of societal support systems in general. Here are the elements I think are missing that cause a lot of frustration for a lot of people.

1. Masculinity
Where have the *men* gone? I mean, what happened to the values of men? Somehow, it seems like the priorities of men have changed. Tiny buns, weiners tucked between legs, and avoiding offending people seem to take precedence over things like conquering, winning, strength, courage, fatherhood, camaraderie, follow-through, keeping your word, honesty, influence, etc.

Men used to be THE warfighters, laborers, authority figures, and breadwinners, and if you weren't those things, then you were not a "man." I certainly don't fit the mold when it comes to traditional masculinity, but I am the primary breadwinner. I did serve in the military. I do put foot to a$$ for my family, and I am constantly in pursuit of improving our lot in life while trying to embody the values I want to bestow upon my child.

Maybe what is lacking is the value of leadership in society. I do not consider myself a great leader, but I step up when the time calls for it, and I don't see that from others around me, so I have to figure out how to bring those people near me OR become someone who teaches a new generation how to be the leaders we lack right now.

2. Family
An extension of the masculinity issue is a lack of family values. As the narrative shifted, especially over the past several years, the focus on traditional family support systems has crumbled under the idea that everyone gets to have their cake and eat it too.

I underestimated the importance of putting family first until not doing so became a horse that kicked me in the face. Now, I see that family is everything, and I am doing what I can to lead our family forward in a new direction, while viciously slashing out the cancer culture that tries to make its way in.

The challenge is that this isn't limited to my own family. Many families are barely holding together because of ideas that are cute in theory but fail in practice over time. Ideas like polyamory which were once frowned upon, but now are promoted as mainstream even though the concept isn't a good idea for most people most of the time because most people do not have the mental fortitude or clarity of communication to manage systems like that without destroying everything they've built (which is often nothing anyway).

3. Tribes
An extension of the family issue is a lack of local tribes, not necessarily of like-minded people, but small group tribes in general. Friendship is lacking. People don't want to know each other, especially not their neighbors.

Without tribal systems, I don't know how a real sense of community can develop. Sure, we've got local Facebook groups, but those are a cesspool of nasty comments, scams, and people complaining about the cost of things.

Without tribes, who do you turn to when your world falls to pieces? Without friends, who do you talk to? Without community, who watches over the neighborhood? Who helps you pull the tree from the roof of your house after a storm? Who comforts you when your mom dies? Who supports you when your house burns down?

I think society has turned toward a "lone wolf" approach and is trying to make it work at the expense of local communities - the world is trying to shift toward online communities or toward altered family-based tribes, but it isn't panning out well because those systems aren't built around traditional values that tend to move societies forward.

The Solution?
I'm not sure. I'm considering church. I'm not religious, and I'm probably the last person someone would think would attend church. But reflecting on the earlier parts of my life, I realize that church (at least as it exists where I am) is one of the last remnants of the values above.

Church groups are typically small tribes built around values of community, family, masculinity. Not only that, but intelligent people can easily become leaders within a church, and then gain enormous influence to affect the congregation.

Church groups also tend to have sub-tribal events to support their community - men's night, kids events, senior retreats, women's night etc. Lastly, church groups position you to meet people, network, and grow your local sphere of influence beyond the church.

In other words, churches tend to embrace the values above. They have leadership as a central element and a focus on God which translates back into these values in different ways whether you believe in God or not.

Becoming the Solution
This is the only answer that makes any sense to me.

Church is not *the solution* because the problems of the changing world make their way through the Church's doors as well. I think Church is a good starting point for a local social support system base, but it is the individuals within those walls that either build up or break down that community.

So I guess leadership is ultimately the solution.

You have to decide what your values are, and then you have to figure out how to build up a social system around you that supports those values, whether they are the values above, or are something else. This is, in my opinion, how you can create a deep sense of community, family, and friendship, even when the people around you aren't necessarily like you.

It's frustrating. It's hard. It's on your shoulders, and that part sucks, but if not you... then who?

 

[Johnny boy]

I've met great people from this forum. I spent 2 weeks in India with one of them.

I try to meet high quality ambitious people as much as I can. I used to want to make friends with a lot of people until it hit me that they had zero utility and were only good for having parties. Now I only want to be around people who are doing something interesting with life, or I could bring them along for cool things like climbing mountains, or starting a joint venture.

Imagine if someone who was interesting, intelligent, ambitious and cool walked up to you and you chatted for a bit and they invited you to go do something fun. If that happened daily imagine how many cool friends you'd have. If you continue to be the person waiting for someone to come up to them, it might happen once every 3 years or something. If YOU are the person who initiates...you CAN have that happen daily. It's just that you're the one that has to say something first.

"Yeah but I'm introverted"
"It's hard for me to talk to people"
etc.

The emotion follows the action, not the other way around. You don't feel like going to the gym but once you're there, it was a great idea. Same goes for meeting people. Every time there's a social thing coming up, a big part of me wants to cancel and do nothing. And then I go and end up having a fantastic time. I don't know why my brain wants to sabotage me like that. Falling for the whole "I'm introverted" shit has caused millions of people to give up on being social. I don't buy into that bullshit one bit, and I spend a LOT of time not socializing. I have to make an effort to change and talk to people when a big part of me just wants to be quiet. Don't justify it or victimize yourself, go out and initiate.

Have something to do with the people you meet. Have a place to invite them to or a hobby to do with them. I go to MMA, I shoot guns, I ski, I go to a russian sauna once a week, etc. My go-to is to invite people over to the lakehouse for some steak and a couple beers.

If your own life is in order, it's easier to make friends. Be the one giving value. Clean up your appearance. Have hobbies and interests. If you have a knack for business it's even easier because you can help people everywhere you go. I love striking up a conversation and hearing that someone has their own small business. I ask a couple questions and if I see an opportunity to pass on something I always take it. "Have you tried doing x with your ads? I tried and it cut my CPC in half". If you can deliver value without sounding like an a**hole, people will really appreciate it.

Get a reputation for the thing you want to be associated with. Anyone who knows me knows I'm 'a business guy'. That's on purpose.

If you want friendships to progress you need to invite them to more personal things outside of one activity. A bonfire, a small party at your house, etc. I like to go to the russian sauna (Banya) because it's 1. a unique experience people aren't used to 2. It's a great place to talk and 3. The intense heat and cold changes your emotional state and you're full of positivity and energy.

The main takeaways are that you need to have your own life in order to expect high quality people to be around you, you need to go do fun stuff with them and initiate interactions, and you should maintain and progress those friendships by inviting them to other parts of your life and other activities. And then all it takes is maintenance.

 

[biophase]

@MTF, when doing activities these acquaintances become friends only if you let them.

After rock climbing if some are getting some food and you decline going with them or if you are getting food and you never invite them, they won’t become your friends.

For example, my trainer trains a bunch of people everyday. He doesn’t become friends with all of them. Some he only talks to during training, some he ends up hanging out with.

There are plenty of people in the world that want more friends, you just need to make an effort.

 

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[biophase]

I think what most people need is to socialize with people that they have the same interests in. If you are in your own bubble, even your day to day accomplishments can be unfulfilling because there is nobody to share it with.

Imagine finally getting a personal record on some video game after 1 month of trying and you have nobody to tell it to. I mean you can tell friends that don't play video games and they will say "great" but they really have no idea what you did or how hard you worked.

Today, when I send my Amazon FBA graph to someone else in ecom, they know exactly what it means, good or bad. When me and @JasonR bitch about high container costs we feel each other's pain. This connection only occurs when you and your friends have activities in common. My W2 friends could care less about container prices. But when I send them a meme about MJ and Lebron, it starts a whole 1/2 day conversation.

As @Lex DeVille mentioned, it's all about tribes. But you might need different tribes, a tribe for sports, a tribe for ecom, a tribe for video gaming...

 

[Lex DeVille]

The Solution?
I'm not sure. I'm considering church. I'm not religious, and I'm probably the last person someone would think would attend church. But reflecting on the earlier parts of my life, I realize that church (at least as it exists where I am) is one of the last remnants of the values above.

Church groups are typically small tribes built around values of community, family, masculinity. Not only that, but intelligent people can easily become leaders within a church, and then gain enormous influence to affect the congregation.

Church groups also tend to have sub-tribal events to support their community - men's night, kids events, senior retreats, women's night etc. Lastly, church groups position you to meet people, network, and grow your local sphere of influence beyond the church.

In other words, churches tend to embrace the values above. They have leadership as a central element and a focus on God which translates back into these values in different ways whether you believe in God or not.

Becoming the Solution
This is the only answer that makes any sense to me.

Church is not *the solution* because the problems of the changing world make their way through the Church's doors as well. I think Church is a good starting point for a local social support system base, but it is the individuals within those walls that either build up or break down that community.

So I guess leadership is ultimately the solution.

You have to decide what your values are, and then you have to figure out how to build up a social system around you that supports those values, whether they are the values above, or are something else. This is, in my opinion, how you can create a deep sense of community, family, and friendship, even when the people around you aren't necessarily like you.

Wanted to follow up on this, since I chose to do it. Here is what my experience has been:

I started attending my piano instructor's church a couple weeks ago. The church is a small tribe built around values of community, family, masculinity, etc. Being a church, all of these values stand on a foundational structure of "Godliness."

Walking in, I was greeted, and invited in like family. The first week, I only attended the main service since I was alone, but I met a number of people. The second week there was a breakfast in place of Sunday School, so I brought my daughter with me. During the breakfast, I met many church members.

From there, I was invited to the Church's backyard Bible study (like a mini VBS for kids) taking place that evening at the pastor's house. I attended with my daughter and met more church members. During this event, I talked with the pastor about my skillset. He mentioned he owns a local business and needs to hire a copywriter and web designer. I also met other men who seemed excited to see someone new of my age show up. When it was over, I offered to help break down the tents and outdoor equipment.

In the second Sunday service, the church's upcoming men's group meeting was mentioned. That was Wednesday. I chose to attend and offered to help with setup and breakdown. We watched a movie called "Courageous" which is about being a man of God and a good father/husband/man. Here, I met new men and discussed copywriting and web design (bear in mind I'm not offering these services). At the end of the service, the men's service leader (not the pastor) brought up the agreement mentioned in the movie (a formal agreement to be a man of God) and said those who want to will have an opportunity to make the same agreement/commitment in an upcoming meeting.

Thoughts

This was the right decision for me. It's providing a sense of community, a sense of social connectedness, and a focus on family and values. The church is small, so there are many opportunities to get involved and take up roles that can make a real difference for other people. I'm also discovering that there are many business owners in the Church.

Overall, I'm glad I chose to do this and will continue attending. I believe it will provide a good foundation for my daughter to learn and grow in a place where she can be surrounded by good people while learning about God and Christianity so she has more than one perspective to grow from.

Is it the right decision for everyone? Maybe not. But I haven't found anything else that embodies what I was searching for more closely than finding a good church. It is very much like having a second family, and I'm starting to understand things about my own family/past/parents that I didn't understand when I was younger. The new perspective is refreshing.

Where does it all lead for me? I don't know. But I definitely feel more connected, and my local support network is rapidly expanding. I'm starting to feel a sense of purpose, and the masculine values I hold are respected in this place as a pillar of strength and resolve rather than being bashed or shamed. For those reasons, I will continue to explore this path and discover where it goes.

 

[Hai]

Totally agree. It becomes increasingly harder to find friends. Personally, I had to learn how to put out invitations.
There will be a premium for people who are able to make new friends in real life, as most people start conversations on social media.
But then again, online allows us to go beyond space and connect with the right people.

People are reacting only nowadays. They don't work on themselves anymore, they don't have a vision. So it's also hard to connect with those, because we work on ourselves. It's hard to find compatibility.

Another problem I see is that tech people are building our future. A lot of them are not social at all and don't know what it means to design better experiences for people. Their vision is almost always purely digital. It's good that we have service designers coming in here.

A good thing I see is that social circles still kinda exist right after school and during university, and then slowly fade, as work becomes precedent.

I think the pendulum will swing towards the digital to the extreme, and then swing back to the other extreme afterwards(real life experiences). This has happened in history many times with many different matters.

But it's to early.

People are slowly waking up though.
I think we have the responsibility to build a future that allows people to connect in a real way.

 

[SteveO]

My friends have always been people with similar interests. I began having children at the age of 19. My kids and I enjoyed sports and motorcycle riding. We did lots of that.

My friends were a crowd of people that enjoyed the same things. We had a blast. My kids frequently tell me how much they enjoyed their childhood. I enjoyed that time as well.

I'm older now and the kids moved out many years ago. I moved on with my interests, got new friends, and still enjoy activities and company with many people that have different interests. Managing time becomes an issue.

I actively seek out groups that look fun and have similar interests. I love competition and my friends are usually pretty fanatical about their activities. Makes it pleasurable for me.

 

[K1 Lambo]

I've been noticing this problem more and more often recently: people in their late twenties/early thirties are lonely and have very few friends. Perhaps it's only limited to me, my girlfriend, and some people I know so I wanted to post this thread and figure this out. Here are a few thoughts to offer more detail:

• In my hometown, I have 0 friends with whom I meet up regularly. I had one friend until last year when his son was born. He had been telling me all the time that nothing would change when he would become a father (I never believed him) but now we talk only online. I think I saw him last time over six months ago. Before, we used to meet at least 2-3 times a week. My other friends who live in the same city have gone in a different direction in life and we don't really mesh that well anymore. We sometimes meet but usually I'm okay with just one meeting per 3 months or so.
• My other friends are almost exclusively virtual. We talk online but we rarely meet (1-2 times a year) or never. It's still good to be able to talk online but it's not the same as doing fun stuff together regularly and being spontaneous (impossible since they all live between 2-5 hours by car from where I live).
• Almost all our friends/people we know lack initiative. If I organize something, they will join but by themselves they almost never set up anything. This makes me feel that they don't really care much about the relationship. So in return, I don't put in that much effort anymore.
• In the case of my girlfriend, her friends have so little time that their lives are limited to work, home (with their partner), and their dogs. And we're talking about young people who supposedly should enjoy their youth.
• As sad as it is, unless I'm traveling or learning something new with a coach, this forum is usually the main way I interact with strangers. I do enjoy this but like I said above, I'd like to have some deep friendships with people I trust that share my values and are available to do fun stuff together. As it is now, whatever new things I do, I just hire a coach and sometimes he or she becomes my sort of friend.
• Speaking of traveling, I've found that it's usually way easier to find like-minded people when visiting places that interest us and match our values. But these relationships have the same problem: they're almost exclusively virtual. So in the end it's nice when you're there but it sort of dies when you're not there (which is kind of understandable if it's a new relationship).
• Curiously, we often see people way older than we are who enjoy rich social lives. Heck, I think that my parents may actually have more friends and a richer social life than I do even though they live in the countryside and rarely leave their homes lol.

What are your thoughts, experiences, suggestions, whatever else is on your mind?

I think it's mainly due to technology. There are always two sides of the coin to everything. Yes, amazing opportunities arise because of it. Without the internet, we would have to send letters to each back and forth(which wouldn't work lol). Most young guys lack traditional manners that used to be mainstream 50-70 years ago.

It's also SO easy to be comfortable nowadays. We have more options than ever. You got the glamour on Instagram. You got the vloggers on YouTube. You got Netflix for movies. You got Uber for transportation. You got delivery apps for food. You got dating apps if you want a little hump. You virtually have anything to be more lazier than ever. Adults who were born 40-50 years ago would've dreamed to have the opportunitities that we have right now.

Heck think about how it was for guys 50 years ago when our grandparents/parents wanted to get laid.
They actually had to physically ask the girl out. They had to face their fears, and actually talk to the person in real life. And it was either a yes or no for a date, and that's it. Guys actually had BIGGER BALLS back then.

Now when guys are interested in girls, they'd prefer to get their social media credentials just like the rest of the guys, and talk to them online on messenger, IG, Snapchat or whatever where these girls are bombarded with messages from horny dudes just like them.

Even average looking girls get a quite a good deal of dudes messaging them, especially from Indian dudes lol. The really hot ones(9-10s) get a ton of messages daily.

Or if the guys are nervous or hesitant, they'd go home and jack off to some xxx.

By the way, I found that the best way to get a girl now is to actually talk to them in person. Your chances of getting a yes from her are so much higher. Why? Well, girls love confident guys. And girls in general are A LOT better at spotting signals from guys than the other way.

Things have definitely changed. Even the guys who I used to hang with are literally glued to their phones 24/7.

When I go to the gym for instance, I'm shocked by how many dudes are staring at their phones instead of working out. It's crazy! I mean I don't judge people often but I'm serious when I'm in the gym. And seeing all these guys makes me realize why they'll never get the physique they want.

To digress, having an amazing physique is not going to automatically give you girls. It does help a lot(especially in bed), but in the gym you get more jealous dudes trying to bump their ego by hovering around you, pretending to be stronger than you by doing a bunch of arm curls right in front of you.

I'm not a dating coach but I had problems with girls when I was a kid but now it's easy for me. So focus on being the best you can be and these things will come automatically. And of course this is not a dating thread, but these things are somewhat related as they go with our social skills as human beings, for both men and women.

 

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[RealDreams]

In today's world, we are more prone to feel lonely because of social media and the rapidness of the digital world. It doesn't matter anymore whether you have a prefrontal cortex or not, social media is here to F*ck it up for you. Gen Z has the attention span and self-awareness of a chimpanzee. I'm 22 and most of the people my age have no drive or vision. If I didn't find the red pill a few years ago I'd be as lost as them.

Read from people you admire and detach from the rest. If you want to be in the 1% you'll likely not be able to relate to the other 99%. Accept it. Life is loneliness. It always was. It's social media that gives us the illusion that we are "all connected".

Zuckerberg is a psychopath whose tendencies resemble totalitarian leaders' cravings for power and domination. We are not all connected. We might be connected for a glimpse of a second, and then something else catches our attention. This is all done on purpose.

Recommended reading:
- Ride the Tiger by Evola
- The concept of Ubermensch by Nietzsche
- IllimitableMen's blog
- Rollo Tomassi's blog
- Unscripted by MJ
- Science and Human Behavior by B.F. Skinner
- Brainwashing: The science of thought control

 

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[Itizn]

I've been away from virtually all of my closest friends for the last eighteen months, but the past six months have been some of the most interesting and exciting times of my life. Attribute that to my business finally taking off, and allowing me to experience the ups and downs along the way.

Loneliness has to a lot to do with having no real mission or purpose to be devoted to.

As long as you are on your (and I emphasize "your") path, loneliness shouldn't be something to get to pent up about.

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

@MJ DeMarco Sorry to bring out anything negative. Just wanted to say thank you for that advice - it is pure gold. My Dad always told me the same thing, I would complain that nobody’s doing anything and he would tell me it’s my job to be the leader and make fun things happen.

That’s just good old fashioned fatherly advice. I’m working on it!

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

I think people are also expecting their interactions with other people to be as "perfect" as possible.

Everything in our life is now being tailored to stimulate us as much as possible:

• Video games went from "Pong and Pac man" to Call of Duty

• Food went from a chicken and rice to 4 cheese mac and cheese with bacon.

• Social interactions used to be unavoidable, but now if you don't like someone you can just block them to make sure you're not uncomfortable at any time!

Obviously there's nothing wrong with these on the surface level, but people are now able to avoid discomfort, and in a way we need to artificially add it back into our lives for our own benefit.

Wow this is really insightful actually. I agree with your take.

I would add that today, people are so overstimulated that they have zero tolerance for boredom.

Boredom was once a fact of life. It was the time when most thinking would happen. Your ideas would come while bored.

Today, a person can live 24/7 without ever experiencing boredom or a state of mental relief.

 

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[JordanK]

I think it's a combination of things. Especially in the western world.

My own personal experience:

- The price of housing has gone up so much that young people are struggling to pay rent and have to devote extra time at work to pay for this. When I was in college nearly 30%+ of students were commuting from outside of the city every morning and back in the evening. Previously this time would have been spent hanging out with friends or taking part in college societies. Also, when young people are living at home into their 20's they don't have the independence to invite people over or are still subjected to their parents rules. Both of these issues ruin friendships and relationships. They are also more tired from this type of lifestyle.

- Loss of 'for life' type of jobs. My parents got jobs when they turned 18 and worked them for the majority of their adult lives. This kind of structure can allow you to build your life around your work hours. A lot of young people in my city now work 0 hour contracts, unsociable hours, freelancing, jobs where they work off other time-zones etc...

- The social media effect. I have lots of friends in my city that don't share my entrepreneurial or other interests. I have lots of friends around the world who do share that interest and many other similar interests too. I spend a lot of time communicating with them that pre-internet wouldn't have been able to happen and I'd spend that time deepening connections with real life people. It also has the effect of lessening the quality of your real life relationships as you are hyper aware that there are more compatible people out there. My parents generation and above seem more accepting of their friends even if they didn't have many similar interests they still had a loyalty to each other.. a commitment to sometimes do activities they didn't like for the sake of the friendship. We are all very obsessed now with having the best 5 people around us.

- The netflix, gaming etc effect is pretty obvious.

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I think we also need to look inwardly. If you met yourself, would you want to be friends with you?

Pick up some other hobbies, do spontaneous things.. not always cold and calculated.

Do you take care of yourself.. dress well, nice haircut, clean, workout. If you let these things slack too much they can become an active turn off.

 

[MTF]

People are reacting only nowadays. They don't work on themselves anymore, they don't have a vision. So it's also hard to connect with those, because we work on ourselves. It's hard to find compatibility.

Yes, that's what I've noticed as well. I find these kind of people (with a vision and something interesting going on) mostly when I travel to interesting places. And I try to keep my mind open back at home but I really don't meet many cool people there compared to when traveling.

Just for a few ideas, I'm currently running a men's group, have monthly dinners at my house for neighbors, and I'm building a community of entrepreneurs.

I remember your other post about the monthly dinners idea and it was cool. Where I live it's mostly old people so it makes little sense.

Also, I think it might be easier if you're fully invested in where you live. I'm not so I don't care that much.

As long as you are on your (and I emphasize "your") path, loneliness shouldn't be something to get to pent up about.

I'm financially independent already so this is more like a post-retirement problem. Either way, I don't agree it's not important. Whether you're working on your business or enjoying your retirement, it's important to have good friends to share your ups and downs with them.

 

[MTF]

My friends have always been people with similar interests.

Do you hang out with them after doing the activities or only when doing them? Because I find it's one thing to go, say, rock climbing in a gym, and talk with a few people you know (not really satisfying socially), and another to have a friend who also happens to be a rock climber.

It's also SO easy to be comfortable nowadays. We have more options than ever. You got the glamour on Instagram. You got the vloggers on YouTube. You got Netflix for movies. You got Uber for transportation. You got delivery apps for food. You got dating apps if you want a little hump. You virtually have anything to be more lazier than ever. Adults who were born 40-50 years ago would've dreamed to have the opportunitities that we have right now.

Most of these options (I mean the social ones, not Uber) are quite empty if not dangerous to your mental health.

Instagram - feel bad seeing how shitty your life is compared to the (fabricated) lives of perfect people.
vloggers - as above.
dating apps - be a pitiful fool trying to pick up women online based on a few (fabricated) pictures and a made-up online persona.

Yes. We need more real adventure these days. Friendships develop as we go out into the world, so there's the truth. That's what MTF is saying too(meeting people on travels etc.)

Sadly, most people are stuck in their home city with time-consuming work repeating the same day over and over. They might live in their own bubble and develop a very close-minded mindset and perspective. I think that's why it's hard to break into them.

Yes, 100% that. I even find it hard to get people to do something fun nearby, like go kayaking. People are so lazy they don't want to do anything even remotely challenging (and if they do, maybe you'll get them to do that 1-2 a year).

My grandparents have better social lives than most kids in their 20’s, simply because they go physical places and meet people face to face.

My point exactly. When I travel, I see so many retirees living like kings, with a group of friends and visible, deep contentment on their faces. They don't pretend to be someone else, they don't use their f***** phones all the time, and they really don't care about anything else other than having a good time with their friends. Young people seem to be doing a lot of stuff just so they can post it online.

Are you saying that younger people don't have interests? I see so many out paddleboarding, surfing, rock climbing, hiking challenging trails, playing rec softball, 4 wheeling, camping, running, lifting at the gym, etc...

They do. The problem is that, at least for me, it's hard to take a relationship beyond this frame. I met some people in an indoor climbing gym but it doesn't really change anything as we only talk about climbing and sometimes don't even really remember each other's names.

I recently started MMA at a local gym. It's allowed me to meet a lot of new people which has been very good, considering I rarely spoke to people IRL prior to this.

Did you take the relationship further or is it only happening during a workout and only about the workout and nothing else?

I think person-to-person contact is so low on people's priorities now that actual human interaction is endangered.

Exactly. So I guess maybe the starting point is to find people who don't have it so low on their list of priorities (and screw those who do lol).

I think now people are more and more trying to replace IRL activities with virtual activities and it's making things even worse.

100% - as commented below in response to another post.

I wouldn't say we are lonely. We are more social than ever. Maybe we are transiting from the traditional face to face relationship to more virtual/digitized relationship?

And that's exactly the problem. The virtual activities ultimately mean shit. Do you have any great childhood memories in the virtual world?

When I was young, I did play some video games with friends but we didn't play online - we actually met at someone's place to play, for example, Heroes of Might and Magic or we went to an Internet cafe and played Counter Strike in the same room.

These days, nobody does that anymore. And virtual really isn't an improvement. It may be convenient not to have to leave your home but it robs you of a normal human connection.

I’ve always been the organizer of vacations. Almost every vacay that I took, I have organized. Most people don’t want to deal with the research, organization and payment collecting. I actually don’t mind it.

I also enjoy organizing that but I only organize it for my girlfriend and me. None of the friends want to go, or they don't have money (but they do have money to spend on BS), or they don't have time because they work too much, or they have other obligations (kids).

So if forced to choose between going alone/with my girlfriend or going with a stranger, I'd rather choose the first option. I'm too much of an introvert to risk traveling with someone I don't know and hating the experience. Hell, I went on a few trips with a guy I do know fairly well and these were some of my most hellish trips; the last one ended with a 12-hour drive without uttering a single word.

Perhaps if I were to create a good filtering process for organizing vacations it could work (for example, I think that many people from this forum would be cool travel companions).

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

Join an MMA gym and meet people there.

Post insane shit on Twitter and forums and makes friends with people.

Odds are that people who are lonely aren't being creative enough with how they search for friends.

Also, if you are constantly working on skills that take years to develop (camping, guns, MMA, etc), seek out other people who do those things. You should look for more from friendships than just people to shoot the shit with - befriend people who you have a shared sense of struggle with (either because you struggled together or because both of you walked down the same hard path at different times). Play long term games with long term people.

Also, go to events that require some sacrifice (travel, money, etc). This will help you find people who are at least somewhat serious about their interests. i met one of my current good friends at the Fastlane Summit.

Also, you should let a lot of people go. Most of them don't matter, and if you have five close friends, then you've done exceptionally well for yourself.

 

[David Fitz]

I agree with this.

I'm 35 and have hardly any friends anymore.

I've changed a lot in the last 5 years and have moved away from friend's I've known for over 25 years.

No one I knew has started a business, goes to the gym regularly or prioritised their health.

When I do see them or meet up with them which is probably once a year or every 2 years, I get the job mentality, the escape from the job mentality that they have to drink, take coke or go on a holiday to escape their life. They seem to be caught in the rat race, work in a job they hate, make ok money, pay bills and repeat.

I find that very hard to be around. I meet people online but wouldn't call that fiendship.

 

[Mathuin]

I recently started MMA at a local gym. It's allowed me to meet a lot of new people which has been very good, considering I rarely spoke to people IRL prior to this.

 

[WJK]

I know a lot of people in my community. A lot of people say hi when I'm out in the world. Many times I'm not sure who they are, but they know me.
BUT, I have a very small inner circle. Sometimes I too feel lonely. I'm older and almost all of my family are gone now. I'm very careful who I let into my little world.
Why do I keep my inner circle small? I'm a big frog in a small pond here. Very few of the people around me think as I think. They think that being successful is simply being lucky. They don't see all the work -- both mental and physical. I can't change their minds. But, I must protect mine. They can't run with me, so I must go it alone a lot of days.

 

[WJK]

I'm working on this. In addition to the church, I've joined a singles FB group and we're going on a two-day float/camping trip next month. To make sure I have people in close proximity, I booked a raft that holds several people instead of just renting a one-man kayak. All raft seats are filled, so I should make some new friends. It's weird, but I'm starting to see glimpses of a younger version of myself...one that didn't give a f*ck about talking to anyone, anywhere, anytime. Maybe I can reintegrate parts of that person into my current self.

My husband always asks me if I must talk to everyone. I laugh and tell him yes. I enjoy talking to different people and listening to their different interests and backgrounds. Have fun on your trip. Make new friends and learn something interesting.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

I can't speak to the cure for female loneliness, but for men, the cure is to work towards some big, difficult mission that naturally requires the help of other men.

I think that the closest friendships tend to be military friendships. Those guys who went through hell together - getting physically and psychologically tortured by drill sergeants in training, getting shot with bullets and explosives halfway around the world, watching friends die, doing all kinds of daring shit that most people couldn't dream of. Very few people can understand the hardships that they went through or some of the highs they've experienced, so naturally they'd form close bonds with the small group of guys who did that.

So the core would be:

1. Big mission with some crazy payoff. It could be in terms of money, adventure, power, chicks, or whatever. It just has to be much better than what normal people get.
2. It has to be difficult to ward off the non-serious people.
3. The more diverse skillsets required the better, that way there is less fighting for status. A great marketing guy and a great operations guy can build a solid business together without needing to compare themselves.
4. Bonus - having a common enemy is a great way to unify a cause. When I think of the last time that the USA felt really united, it was September 11, 2001. I think that a common hatred might be an even more powerful unifier than any other common ground.

 

[Aidan04]

I can't speak to the cure for female loneliness, but for men, the cure is to work towards some big, difficult mission that naturally requires the help of other men.

I think that the closest friendships tend to be military friendships. Those guys who went through hell together - getting physically and psychologically tortured by drill sergeants in training, getting shot with bullets and explosives halfway around the world, watching friends die, doing all kinds of daring shit that most people couldn't dream of. Very few people can understand the hardships that they went through or some of the highs they've experienced, so naturally they'd form close bonds with the small group of guys who did that.

So the core would be:

1. Big mission with some crazy payoff. It could be in terms of money, adventure, power, chicks, or whatever. It just has to be much better than what normal people get.
2. It has to be difficult to ward off the non-serious people.
3. The more diverse skillsets required the better, that way there is less fighting for status. A great marketing guy and a great operations guy can build a solid business together without needing to compare themselves.
4. Bonus - having a common enemy is a great way to unify a cause. When I think of the last time that the USA felt really united, it was September 11, 2001. I think that a common hatred might be an even more powerful unifier than any other common ground.

Started a DJ group with my friends who are into EDM, and we host underground raves in the woods.

The crew recently grew to 7 people. We are literally like 7 college guys pulling off small festivals with rented equipment just because we can and it's awesome.

I think we had 200+ people show up to the last one.

We're essentially a chosen family now because every month we work towards a common goal that we're all passionate about, and it feels like Ocean's 11 every time we pull it off.

In December, we're going up to the Adirondack Mountains at 1 am and filming a live set in a fire tower. In January, we'll be hosting our 3rd rave in the woods and we are expecting 300+ people to show up.

We're gaining lots of traction locally, and it feels like we're really making a difference in people's lives by just going out there and doing shit that we love. I feel like these men are my brothers now.

It really meets all the criteria you described:
- EDM is really a niche thing where we are but people eat it up
- In order for this to work, everyone needs to pull their weight and do their job
- We all have different jobs/skillsets that we bring to the group
- We are all passionate about a common goal

AND we have a common enemy. Our college. We dislike many of our college's policies on mental health, and we want to give back to the community in a significant way.

Essentially:
Be the main character, and you will have friends.

 

[SteveO]

I do agree that you can have friendships with all people, and it's a sign of really high/developed EQ if you can connect and be empathetic with everyone. My point is that it's hard to build deep connections, because somehow you might just talk past one another.

I don't know that my connections were that deep. Many different adventures with many different people. I guess that I just put myself out there a lot.

There are not many people that have done the variety or quantity of adventures that I have done. My life is complete but not finished. The memories that I carry with hundreds... maybe even thousands of other people are immense.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Are you saying that younger people don't have interests? I see so many out paddleboarding, surfing, rock climbing, hiking challenging trails, playing rec softball, 4 wheeling, camping, running, lifting at the gym, etc...

No they do. Well, not as much as in the past.

But so many of us spend ungodly amounts of time in front of screens. It’s like television except it’s always with you.

It reminds me of the movie Wall-E where they’re right next to each other but communicating by video chat.

Not to mention the incredible number of hours wasted on electronic devices versus doing things offline - speaking from firsthand experience

 

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