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HOT TOPIC Anyone involved in Worldwide Dream Builders/Amway?

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thereehldeal27

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I'm being recruited and going to speeches of apparent rich people who got rich off the business. There seems to be a big draw for this business in the area. I was at an event at the Convention Center the other day and there was a MASSIVE amount of people. Then I went to this thing at Hilton hotel and again, MASSIVE.

I'll name drop speakers I have seen for reference: Mike, Matt Nguyen, and Brad Duncan. These guys are financially successful from the business.

As someone interested in escaping the 9 to 5, and working for myself and being wealthy, they are very convincing and it seems appealing.

Everyone online talks bad about Amway and stuff, but yet I see actual wealthy people from it. What gives?

Is it worth sticking with? They want me to attend dream night, which costs 75 bucks, but I can't afford it and they're basically trying to shame me into going like "I'll be able to tell a lot about you if you do or don't make it. Who you are."

So...anyone have a clue what this all is and if becoming filthy rich like the speakers is really a plausibility?
 

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AurimasLT

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I'm being recruited and going to speeches of apparent rich people who got rich off the business. There seems to be a big draw for this business in the area. I was at an event at the Convention Center the other day and there was a MASSIVE amount of people. Then I went to this thing at Hilton hotel and again, MASSIVE.

I'll name drop speakers I have seen for reference: Mike, Matt Nguyen, and Brad Duncan. These guys are financially successful from the business.

As someone interested in escaping the 9 to 5, and working for myself and being wealthy, they are very convincing and it seems appealing.

Everyone online talks bad about Amway and stuff, but yet I see actual wealthy people from it. What gives?

Is it worth sticking with? They want me to attend dream night, which costs 75 bucks, but I can't afford it and they're basically trying to shame me into going like "I'll be able to tell a lot about you if you do or don't make it. Who you are."

So...anyone have a clue what this all is and if becoming filthy rich like the speakers is really a plausibility?

Hi, I have a relative who is in that business for years. I cant say too much about as i don't know all the details but the person is an elderly age around 70 years of age and still make a living of it. Not being rich but it provides enough for the person. Even though she has a large amount of people working under her (as you need in any multi marketing platform), as far as i know you still need to make orders and make sales to the the commission. Its a lot of work and at the end of the day, you are still working for another company. I would prefer to build my own brand on the same concept. It depends what your looking for. I have actually used their products and they are not bad, but nothing special i cant do without.

Hope this Helps.
 

thereehldeal27

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Hmmm ok I'll be careful and I'll think wisely before making a final decision. I too would rather build my own brand as well. This just seems like an interesting opportunity.
 

Raoul Duke

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GOLD - Gullible MLM junkies. SOS
 

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but yet I see actual wealthy people from it.

You see people get wealthy from the lottery too, does that mean you should buy lottery tickets every day too?
 

WJK

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So...anyone have a clue what this all is and if becoming filthy rich like the speakers is really a plausibility?
My parents were involved many, many years ago when the original creators were in charge of that company. At that time, there were very opportunities for people with few resources to start a business. I've seen it work at times -- and then other times the down-line sales force falls apart after years and years of work. There are many multi-level marketing businesses out there.

Personally, I'm not very impressed. Most of the money is made by the corporate owners -- not the sales force. In my mind, there are a lot of better business opportunities available now with the internet.
 

TreyAllDay

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You have a better chance getting "rich" with a day job. When it ends (and they always do), you will have isolated your friends and contacts, wasted hours of precious time training and going to meetings, spent a ton of money on training and products, and left wondering what the hell happened. The worst part about these groups is they brainwash you and you make think you're doing the right thing.

Had a close friend who was a VERY bright guy calling EVERY single one of his closest friends selling the crap out of this system. Drawing webs of contacts on his walls. Completely indoctrinated.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
 
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craig1928

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Everyone online talks bad about Amway and stuff, but yet I see actual wealthy people from it. What gives?

That's because they only show you what they want you to see

“In every case, using the analytical framework described, the loss rate for all these MLMs ranged from 99.05% to 99.99%, with an average of 99.71% of participants losing money in an MLM. On average, one in 545 is likely to have profited after subtracting expenses and 997 out of 1,000 individuals involved with an MLM lose money (not including time invested)."
 

MJ DeMarco

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As someone interested in escaping the 9 to 5, and working for myself and being wealthy, they are very convincing and it seems appealing.

Of course it's appealing, especially if you love alienating friends, family, and pretty much anyone breathing. In order to succeed, you have to create your own cult of devout brainwashees.

And then you're sold a fairy tale of passive income for just "buying what you normally buy!"

True, but I normally don't pay $39 for an 8 oz bottle of shampoo.
 

G-Man

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Everyone online talks bad about Amway and stuff, but yet I see actual wealthy people from it.

The people that got wealthy from it didn't pay $75 to attend a sales pitch to sell Amway. They got wealthy by getting thousands of people to pay $75 to listen to a sales pitch. If you can see that simple difference, you'll understand why we bash MLM around here.
 

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The EL Maven

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The hidden secret is like G-Man said.

Years ago, a guy hit on me at a bookstore. Gave me a Robert Kiyosaki book (how do you think a mediocre author like him sold so many books?). At the time, I was selling my own content on CDs and distributing a few hundred of them per month and making some money doing it. I'm convinced I was making far more money doing what I was doing than he was making pitching Amway.

But, it turns out, we were effectively in the same business. You see, the secret is in selling their version of "the script" to their downline. Traditionally this would be in the form of a CD of the month/week where the rich guy sells his downline on the dream. He/she records a rah rah speech, puts it on CD, and sells thousands of them at $10 each all the way down. Or simply host one of those pricey $75 per ticket events.

THAT'S where the real money was always at. The $39 shampoo, as expensive as it is, makes peanuts. The real dough is in convincing people to spend money on their "business". See it for what it is, a con.
 

Real Deal Denver

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But, it turns out, we were effectively in the same business. You see, the secret is in selling their version of "the script" to their downline. Traditionally this would be in the form of a CD of the month/week where the rich guy sells his downline on the dream. He/she records a rah rah speech, puts it on CD, and sells thousands of them at $10 each all the way down. Or simply host one of those pricey $75 per ticket events.

THAT'S where the real money was always at. The $39 shampoo, as expensive as it is, makes peanuts. The real dough is in convincing people to spend money on their "business". See it for what it is, a con.

I like punishment. I like to be kicked and spit on. Now that you know that, I will go completely against the sentiments here. Let the thrashing begin.

All of you people that hate MLM don't understand what they're selling.

I don't want anyone - repeat, anyone - to pay more for something they don't buy on a regular basis anyway. So, with that thought, their choice is to support the big box stores and the big pay CEOs, OR to do something for their own bottom line, and that of their friends. I would be happy to make a mere 25 cents from someone buying shampoo. I don't have to gouge someone on any purchase - and I don't want their $10 for a sales kit, and I sure don't want them to spend $75 on a seminar. No way.

Ok - can we agree that I'm not your enemy now? Then, let's look at numbers. I'm not even going to explain the chart below. The beauty of it is when you study it and figure out the message it conveys for yourself. So sit back for a few minutes and study this chart...

power of 5.JPG

Let me know what you understand it.

I'm here all week, so take your time.

THIS, people is your choice, plain and simple. Pay the wholesalers, the brick and mortar stores, all the paychecks in between, AND the CEOs of the manufacturer, the middlemen, and the seller. If you like supporting the American economy - because that's the way it's done. I didn't say it was right or wrong - I said that's the way it's done.

OR, you can put yourself in the income stream. Yes, put on your hip waders and wade on out to that stream. Get your 25 cents. You might not want to work too hard, so you might only be at the level of having 19,530 tiny itty bitty customers at 25 cents each. That's only $4,882 income a month, give or take. That's only $58,590 a year, give or take.

If you can't see this, well then you do deserve to be a rat in the rat race that is supporting the big shots of all these companies feeding off you.

I don't know the details - these are just numbers I threw together to make a point. But if all you can manage to do is talk to five people, and explain this, and have those five people make you a measly profit of 25 cents a month - if that's ALL you are capable of - then so be it. If, on the other hand you want to criticize and insult other people for doing this, then have at it.

It's a viable method of income, ESPECIALLY with the power of the internet that we have at our fingertips.

I'm tough - let the flaming begin. But before you do, maybe consider that you don't even know what you don't even know. Maybe.
 

Real Deal Denver

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I like how I explained this idea so much that I'm going to see what I can buy a few commodity products for wholesale.

I'll be like Amazon - start very small. They started with books. How many people buy books? Not nearly as many that buy shampoo.

I may be onto something here. Five products today. Ten in a month, 20 in two months. No seminars. No training costs. All internet based. Drop and ship. So I only make two bucks? I can live on that - if it is scaled up.
 

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I like punishment. I like to be kicked and spit on. Now that you know that, I will go completely against the sentiments here. Let the thrashing begin.

All of you people that hate MLM don't understand what they're selling.

I don't want anyone - repeat, anyone - to pay more for something they don't buy on a regular basis anyway. So, with that thought, their choice is to support the big box stores and the big pay CEOs, OR to do something for their own bottom line, and that of their friends. I would be happy to make a mere 25 cents from someone buying shampoo. I don't have to gouge someone on any purchase - and I don't want their $10 for a sales kit, and I sure don't want them to spend $75 on a seminar. No way.

Ok - can we agree that I'm not your enemy now? Then, let's look at numbers. I'm not even going to explain the chart below. The beauty of it is when you study it and figure out the message it conveys for yourself. So sit back for a few minutes and study this chart...

View attachment 17618

Let me know what you understand it.

I'm here all week, so take your time.

THIS, people is your choice, plain and simple. Pay the wholesalers, the brick and mortar stores, all the paychecks in between, AND the CEOs of the manufacturer, the middlemen, and the seller. If you like supporting the American economy - because that's the way it's done. I didn't say it was right or wrong - I said that's the way it's done.

OR, you can put yourself in the income stream. Yes, put on your hip waders and wade on out to that stream. Get your 25 cents. You might not want to work too hard, so you might only be at the level of having 19,530 tiny itty bitty customers at 25 cents each. That's only $4,882 income a month, give or take. That's only $58,590 a year, give or take.

If you can't see this, well then you do deserve to be a rat in the rat race that is supporting the big shots of all these companies feeding off you.

I don't know the details - these are just numbers I threw together to make a point. But if all you can manage to do is talk to five people, and explain this, and have those five people make you a measly profit of 25 cents a month - if that's ALL you are capable of - then so be it. If, on the other hand you want to criticize and insult other people for doing this, then have at it.

It's a viable method of income, ESPECIALLY with the power of the internet that we have at our fingertips.

I'm tough - let the flaming begin. But before you do, maybe consider that you don't even know what you don't even know. Maybe.
Lol. Please tell me you’re trolling. :rofl:

 

Real Deal Denver

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Lol. Please tell me you’re trolling. :rofl:


Um, no.

For every success story, there are the ones yelling and whooping it up on how stupid "those people" are.

I'm an Anthony Robbins fan in that I do believe I can figure out secrets to success and duplicate them. I don't have to reinvent the wheel.
 

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I like how I explained this idea so much that I'm going to see what I can buy a few commodity products for wholesale.

I'll be like Amazon - start very small. They started with books. How many people buy books? Not nearly as many that buy shampoo.

I may be onto something here. Five products today. Ten in a month, 20 in two months. No seminars. No training costs. All internet based. Drop and ship. So I only make two bucks? I can live on that - if it is scaled up.

What you described above doesn't sound like joining a MLM company.

Are you going to be a distributor in another company's business system (bad idea) or are you building your own brand and distributing products via individual distributors (better idea)?
 
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JAJT

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MLM companies prey on folks who don't understand math.

In almost every instance of you "just need to find x friends, and they just need to find x friends, and they just...." you run out of possible people to sell to VERY quickly.

But let's say you are the outlier who can make it work. If you have the skills to get far in MLM you have the skills to do FAR BETTER at almost ANYTHING else with LESS effort.
 

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MLM companies prey on folks who don't understand math.
But wait! He posted the math and is even willing to wait until we understand it fully. :clench:

I'll tell ya. These brainwashed MLM'ers never cease to crack me up.
 

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I'll tell ya. These brainwashed MLM'ers never cease to crack me up.

What blows my f*cking mind about MLM is that anyone capable of making it work as promised is selling themselves short by being in MLM!

The "skill to compensation" ratio for MLM is absurd.

It's like being the best go-kart salesman in the world and making $65k per year. If you're that good just take those skills across the street and sell BMWs for $300k instead.

The math on the distribution model doesn't make sense.
The math on the compensation model doesn't make sense.

The only thing a great MLM salesperson is selling is themselves, and they're selling it short.
 

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MJ DeMarco

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Then, let's look at numbers.
Math doesn't lie, but people do.

I've been in 4 MLM, maybe 5. I can't even remember because back then the brainwashing was greater than my memory.

In fact, it was the MATH that got me interested in MLM to begin with. And your reasoning seems sound and logical, to the point I could see what a 22 year old me would be like, "Oh, that makes sense!"

But math on a whiteboard at a Best Western is not the same as math deployed in the real world with real people with real motives. It's comparing apples to astronauts. It's the same story with the old compound interest mimetic, "Save $100/m for 50 years, and you'll have $3M when you're 65!" -- sure the math works, but when applied in the real world, it falls apart because humans cannot be trusted (or predicted) like math on a napkin.

For every success story, there are the ones yelling and whooping it up on how stupid "those people" are.

You can't be serious. You used math in your analysis, and then seem to totally forget it here.

For every lottery winner, there's 10,000,000 moaning that they weren't the lucky one and another 10,000,000 laughing at the people that played.

Likewise, for every MLM guy standing on stage preaching to a starry-eyed congregation about passive income, there's 10M thinking they'll be the next on stage, and 10M laughing at those people thinking it.

Of course, none of this is to impugn the massive success of someone in a MLM; I think they're rockstars. If they can succeed at one of the toughest, worst paying, and saturated business model on the planet, they can do ANYTHING.
 

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Serious question. Does anyone actually know someone who’s bought an Amway product? I see everyone selling it... but I’ve never actually heard of someone buying anything from them.
 

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Serious question. Does anyone actually know someone who’s bought an Amway product? I see everyone selling it... but I’ve never actually heard of someone buying anything from them.
Only the distributors/reps who want to make sure their sales quotas are met. LOL. :rofl:
 

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THIS, people is your choice, plain and simple. Pay the wholesalers, the brick and mortar stores, all the paychecks in between, AND the CEOs of the manufacturer, the middlemen, and the seller. If you like supporting the American economy - because that's the way it's done. I didn't say it was right or wrong - I said that's the way it's done.

OR, you can put yourself in the income stream. Yes, put on your hip waders and wade on out to that stream. Get your 25 cents. You might not want to work too hard, so you might only be at the level of having 19,530 tiny itty bitty customers at 25 cents each. That's only $4,882 income a month, give or take. That's only $58,590 a year, give or take.

If you can't see this, well then you do deserve to be a rat in the rat race that is supporting the big shots of all these companies feeding off you.

Look guys, all you have to do is get 20,000 customers! It's that easy!

You do understand that no matter what business you're in, you have to pay suppliers, employees, etc, right? You also understand that these MLM companies have CEOs that make multi-million dollar salaries, right?

I'll tell ya. These brainwashed MLM'ers never cease to crack me up.

Has to be trolling. Nobody can go this fully Jim Jones.
 

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My parent's use their dish and laundry soap, I guess it works quite well.

They order it in some gigantic cardboard box and it lasts them years. I guess Amway recently stopped selling the jumbo bulk ones so that kinda pissed them off because it is doubling the cost of their soap so they might not use it anymore.

I have a good friend from childhood who recently got in to selling Amway stuff. I thought it was good because they do teach you good financial skills and life stuff, and that is pretty hard for a lot of people to find these days. But on the other hand it is kind of brainwashy, and I feel like if she put that effort into searching for something on her own and running her own business she would be 100x further in the end. I am pretty sure I gave her my copy of Fastlane. I better find out to make sure that I actually did this!
 

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MLM companies prey on folks who don't understand math.

And they also don't understand economics.

Scarce resources and maximization of utility.

Don't these people wanna be the house? Don't they wanna be monopolists or at least close to one?

Why would anybody waste their time trying to successful in someone else's little ecosystem?

No, wealth doesn't gravitate to overcrowded sellers of over priced junk and commoditized products.

It kinda reminds me of how when you walk into a casino and a slot machine has flashing lights with a $25k jackpot. Can you win it? Yeah possible. But the probabilities are low because its a pretty shitty ecosystem to make money.
 

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I made the mistake of getting pretty actively involved in MLMs 25 years ago. My new wife & I became one of the top-tier distributors in our first company, because we were good and we worked hard at it. After that company cratered I worked with several others, and even did a bit of low-level consulting for one of them. I wrote and maintained the online MLM FAQ back in the 90's. So I know whereof I speak.
So sit back for a few minutes and study this chart...

MLM.JPG

Let me know what you understand it.

I understand it a lot better than you do. I've been there.

Yes, all you have to do is find 5 people who find 5 people who find... on and on. Ignoring the limitations of population on the planet, I defy you to find all those people to build the big numbers you listed.

Do you think the people here on FLF are typical? Could you go out on the street, or canvas your high school buddies, and expect that every person will be like the FLers here? Of course not. The people here are exceptional, motivated, focused, hard working, etc. MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT.

The same is true in that wonderful exponential pyramid you want to build. My ex and I worked our buns off and built one of the bigger organizations in the company. But it was a house built on sand. In order for that pyramid to keep growing, those people have to keep building FOR THEMSELVES. With their OWN EFFORT and their OWN MOTIVATION. We built our organization out of our energy and initiative -- but we couldn't DUPLICATE ourselves. Of the hundreds of people we enrolled, most of which who were initially fired up by the possibility of their new "business," we had about 3 who actually gave it a half-hearted try before quitting after their 2nd "no." We had to keep shoring it up by signing up more and more people ourselves -- and we knew we were lying to 99% of them when we told them they could succeed. It wasn't sustainable.

So it DOESN'T MATTER how hot-shit you are, how hard you work, how much YOU PERSONALLY do. Because YOU PERSONALLY can't sign up those millions of people you talked about. And you aren't going to find more than a few people who will work it as hard as you do. You'll only build that huge pyramid if you do most of the work yourself. And the pay is lousy for that job, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and it's likely to cost you friends and relationships.

But let's say you are the outlier who can make it work. If you have the skills to get far in MLM you have the skills to do FAR BETTER at almost ANYTHING else with LESS effort.
Ding ding ding ding! Give the man a ceegar.

MLM is a fundamentally broken model. A few people can make money. Most can't. And if you have the focus and drive to make it in MLM (the term "kicking a dead whale down the beach" comes to mind) then you're better off to apply that energy to something that puts YOU in a much better position to be rewarded.
 
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@thereehldeal27

TLDR: Don't do it.


I know World Wide Dream Builders extremely well. Brad Duncan, his brother Greg Duncan, Leslie Wolgammot, Ron Puryear, Dean and Marcie Whalen, I've been around that group for years, and getting suckered into their spell and losing years of my youth is a big regret of mine. MLM's don't work, but what WWDB tries to do is something a bit more insidious than the regular pyramid scheme.

They try to appeal to a different crowd by making it about "mentorship" and "leadership," as well as a bunch of other intangibles such as helping improve your relationships as well as paying off debt. It fools people into thinking that this isn't your normal MLM, that it's somehow more than that...like a spiritual cause if you will.

They use language such as how "its important for this business to go from your head to your heart," stressing the importance of these weekend long brainwashing conferences. Every challenge, adversity, or negative opinion from someone about the business - instead of being a sign that MLM's don't work - get's twisted into being perceived as a sign that your hitting "resistance," and that your success is right around the corner.

If you were like me then you are going through an "interview/qualification" process, from first "meet and greet" where you get a book (a Robert Kiyosaki book or some others), followed by a second meeting, then a couple of "board plans" or presentations, and if you get suckered in, they will offer to do a "budget session," where they look over your financials to make sure you won't be going broke by doing this business. Why? Because maxing out your credit cards is a shocking enough wake up call for most people to snap out of the brainwashing. If you are financially stable, then it will take much longer for you to quit the business.

At first, you might also wonder why the f*** would an MLM want to go to such an effort to recruit a person. Why not just plop them into a hotel conference rather than doing 2-6 coffee meetings over several weeks? Simple, it weeds people out who aren't going to stick around. They specifically target people who are loyal and have the psychological predisposition to stick along for the long haul and get milked out of their money - all the while feeling like they're apart of a special family.

People lose years of their lives because of shit like this - I know a former cross-line who killed himself after snapping out of the spell, and I was quite close to that path myself.

Robert Fitzpatrick's book called "False Profits: Seeking Financial and Spiritual Deliverance In Multi-Level Marketing" is great if you want to see how brainwashed people can become.

Do any other business, or even take up freelancing. After my first three months of freelancing as a writer I was making more than my joke of a platinum who was in the business for over 10 years!

Don't do it.
 

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