Anyone else FED UP with outsourcing?

[juan917]

I am fed up with outsourcing. Never seems to go right, need to constantly hold people's hands. I guess the old saying is true - "if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"

 

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[Argue]

Do you outsource your work to places like India, Philippines, etc?

 

[maverick]

I can only talk about outsourcing software development as I don't do any other outsourcing but the main learning points that I've taken away from years of experience are:
- Create clearly scoped projects with a beginning and an end; don't do ongoing projects. If you need longterm development work, chunk it up in projects with clear scopes
- You need to provide mockups, user stories and the general context of what you're trying to accomplish. The developers need to understand the big picture as well - it doesn't have to be academic but provide them with some context.
- Create a working process. You can use a lot of the lean startup principles but adapt them so that they fit your ways of working. You don't have to rigorously follow everything to the letter but you do need a working process. Use supporting tools like www.balsamiq.com, www.trello.com, www.basecamp.com, www.slack.com
- By creating a working process, you can set the stage for the developers. Treat them as an extension of your company, as employees. How would you do an evaluation with them if they were sitting in the office? What are your expectations? What is important for you that they do? How will they communicate progress? How will they flag questions? etc etc

It requires management skills to setup and work with outsourced parties. If you don't have a clear grasp on the process, you will generally be disappointed with the results. This will be the same with employees though. If you hire somebody, and fail to on-board them properly and embed them in your ways of working they will generally disappoint as well.

 

[458]

I am fed up with outsourcing. Never seems to go right, need to constantly hold people's hands. I guess the old saying is true - "if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"

Pay more, get more.

 

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[SquatchMan]

I guess the old saying is true - "if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"

I hate that saying. That's something a micromanager would say.

If you want it done right, hire someone that knows what they're doing and then manage them properly.

Don't know how to do taxes/bookkeeping. Hire a CPA to do them.
Don't know how to code. Pay a coder to code.
Don't know how to write contracts. Pay a lawyer to write contracts.

Sometimes you might have to guide the contractor/employee a bit to get the results you want.
Sometimes you hire the wrong person and you have to fire them.

And that's the difference between a good manager and a manager that says, "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself."

The goal of fastlane businesses is to become the director of the movie.

The director doesn't do the acting. He hires people to act and guides them with his vision.
The director doesn't do the editing. He hires an editor and guides them with his vision.
The director doesn't (usually) do the cinematography. He has his camera people do the cinematography and then he guides them with his vision.

Sure the director might pop in every now and then on the trenches to help with the editing or cinematography. However, the ultimate goal is to put in place the proper tools and management for the entity to work on it's own all while following your vision.

In the case of a movie, the finished result is seeing your art on the screen.

In the case of business, it is adding value and making money.

 

[amp0193]

I am fed up with outsourcing. Never seems to go right, need to constantly hold people's hands. I guess the old saying is true - "if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"

I'd rather have it done 90% right, and me not have to do anything, then 100% right and me do everything (which would be physically impossible, because time).

I outsource nearly everything in my business.

Performance tends to depend on 1. quality of the person doing the outsourcing, and 2. The clarity with which you prepare them for the task.

All of my outsourcing failures, were because one of those two things wasn't right.

My last day-job boss was a micromanger. If I didn't do things exactly his way, or exactly when he wanted it done (neither of which he ever made clear to me), then he just did it himself. I just started taking my sweet time on everything, and eventually, he picked up 100% of the slack, and I had lots of extra time to work on my business. I'm pretty sure he hated me, but his communication skills were so poor, he literally never gave me any constructive feedback other than the occasional compliment. So I kept intentionally doing a mediocre job, because why not?

 

[Mogul]

Like others have mentioned, the key is in implementing simple systems that anyone can follow.

It can definitely take some time to find the right people, but persistence and consistency are key. Keep at it.

 

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[juan917]

Do you outsource your work to places like India, Philippines, etc?

At first I did. Did not like the communication barrier. Went through 3 people that speak native English and now I'm giving up because the things I need done still haven't been completed and it should have been done at least a month ago

 

[CareCPA]

Two things I have noticed on outsourcing:
1. It will always take longer than if you do it. No matter how good your person is, they do not know the ins and outs of your business as well as you, and their priorities are never the same as yours. It is your business, and no one else will treat it as such.
2. If you take the lowest quote, expect to go through a lot of people before you find a good one.

Good help costs some money. Don't be afraid to spend it if it frees you up to grow your business in other ways.

 

[Mogul]

1. It will always take longer than if you do it. No matter how good your person is, they do not know the ins and outs of your business as well as you, and their priorities are never the same as yours. It is your business, and no one else will treat it as such.
2. If you take the lowest quote, expect to go through a lot of people before you find a good one.

This is true even with in-house employees. It's hard to find good help, but that doesn't mean it's not out there.

Here are a few of the things I've learnt employing people;

1. Don't be afraid to spend money.
2. Don't expect miracles, and don't expect them to know what you want immediately.
3. Make sure you give them the tools they need to perform the job.
4. Put systems and prodedures in place so there's no confusion.
5. OVER communicate. This is especially important when working remotely.
6. If they're still not working out, get rid of them and find someone else.

 

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[juan917]

update - i doubled my prices and got someone!

Pay more, get more.

offered double my rates to what I would have thought was the ideal candidate. He just didn't have enough time, hopefully it works out!

I hate that saying. That's something a micromanager would say.

If you want it done right, hire someone that knows what they're doing and then manage them properly.

Don't know how to do taxes/bookkeeping. Hire a CPA to do them.
Don't know how to code. Pay a coder to code.
Don't know how to write contracts. Pay a lawyer to write contracts.

Sometimes you might have to guide the contractor/employee a bit to get the results you want.
Sometimes you hire the wrong person and you have to fire them.

And that's the difference between a good manager and a manager that says, "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself."

The goal of fastlane businesses is to become the director of the movie.

The director doesn't do the acting. He hires people to act and guides them with his vision.
The director doesn't do the editing. He hires an editor and guides them with his vision.
The director doesn't (usually) do the cinematography. He has his camera people do the cinematography and then he guides them with his vision.

Sure the director might pop in every now and then on the trenches to help with the editing or cinematography. However, the ultimate goal is to put in place the proper tools and management for the entity to work on it's own all while following your vision.

In the case of a movie, the finished result is seeing your art on the screen.

In the case of business, it is adding value and making money.

agree with becoming the director. This is a simple enough task that any person could do it. Or so I thought. Had to teach someone how to send email over screensharing. Needed to be walked through making a gmail account.

 

[wade1mil]

I found hiring from the perspective of finding cheap help is a good way of ending up doing it yourself.
Hiring people who do the specific thing you need done for a living end up helping more than you could do on your own.

TL;DR - Hire the best, not the cheapest.

 

[GoodluckChuck]

You had to walk someone through starting a gmail account? Holy smokes.. I can't imagine how low a level of task you are outsourcing....

 

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[Digamma]

agree with becoming the director. This is a simple enough task that any person could do it. Or so I thought. Had to teach someone how to send email over screensharing. Needed to be walked through making a gmail account.

See, that's the problem, though. If you hire people who are clearly unqualified, you can't expect them to work out.
At a minimum, the person should make you look unqualified in comparison - even better if they make you look like an utter moron.
Glad you're upping the ante - the increased cost always ends up being worth it.

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with the "simple systems, so anybody can follow them" crowd.
You want people who know how to do the job better than you do.

We all harp on "provide value", but it's also true the opposite way.
You want to hire people who provide you value.
You want people who bring solutions, not problems.
You want people who improve your systems, not just follow them in a "good enough" way.

 

[amp0193]

At a minimum, the person should make you look unqualified in comparison - even better if they make you look like an utter moron.

I just hired a brand developer. 8/10 of his ideas are better than mine. He makes me look like a moron.

I just hired a web developer. He is a Shopify wizard and the things he can do in 15 minutes, would take me days (if I could ever do it).

I just hired a copywriter. He knew the core principles of my businesses better than I did. He clearly articulated thoughts that I hadn't even formulated yet.

The result will be an extremely polished and professional presentation for our brand.

I paid good money for all of the above. However, I'm counting on that being LESS than the amount of money I would've lost, had I attempted my own mediocre marketing,design,web development, and copy.

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with the "simple systems, so anybody can follow them" crowd.
You want people who know how to do the job better than you do.

I think it just depends on the job. If I have 40 hours of mindless repetitive work to be done, I don't really care if it's a braniac. I just want someone to do it as I would. In these types of tasks, there's not a lot of value-add by being more capable or more qualified.

However, in any work that requires a brain, or some creative output... I agree with you completely.

 

[MitchC]

I just hired a brand developer. 8/10 of his ideas are better than mine. He makes me look like a moron.

I just hired a web developer. He is a Shopify wizard and the things he can do in 15 minutes, would take me days (if I could ever do it).

I just hired a copywriter. He knew the core principles of my businesses better than I did. He clearly articulated thoughts that I hadn't even formulated yet.

The result will be an extremely polished and professional presentation for our brand.

I paid good money for all of the above. However, I'm counting on that being LESS than the amount of money I would've lost, had I attempted my own mediocre marketing,design,web development, and copy.





I think it just depends on the job. If I have 40 hours of mindless repetitive work to be done, I don't really care if it's a braniac. I just want someone to do it as I would. In these types of tasks, there's not a lot of value-add by being more capable or more qualified.

However, in any work that requires a brain, or some creative output... I agree with you completely.

Where did you hire them? What were the rough prices for each job?

I've been hit and miss. Some cheap people were amazing, some expensive ones were terrible. Most jobs I end up holding their hands, but I usually get some better ideas too from them.

One of the most successful hires was I went through Instagram on a new account and followed about 200 accounts that were relevant to my niche, I then paid someone $20 which was the cheapest quote to go through and make a spreadsheet of every account name, email addresses, how many followers, followings, their bio, Kik, everything, she had it done perfectly the next day. I think it's good for low level tasks like this.

 

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[Digamma]

I think it just depends on the job. If I have 40 hours of mindless repetitive work to be done, I don't really care if it's a braniac. I just want someone to do it as I would. In these types of tasks, there's not a lot of value-add by being more capable or more qualified.

Oh, absolutely. When someone complains about outsourcing, it's basically never about menial copy/paste tasks. I was referring to more involved processes - should have specified it!

 

[juan917]

Oh, absolutely. When someone complains about outsourcing, it's basically never about menial copy/paste tasks. I was referring to more involved processes - should have specified it!

this is a copy + paste task

 

[amp0193]

Where did you hire them? What were the rough prices for each job?

2 friends have used them, and highly recommended them, and I liked the work they did on their sites/brands.

I don't really enjoy the process of looking for talent to hire... I'm not the best quick-judger of people.

 

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