Anybody ever make custom die-cut stickers? Equipment help needed!

[Kurt]

I need to make small runs of 1 to 10 stickers for my new business measuring 2x2" or slightly smaller. I don't want to go into exact detail at this point, but I think I can describe our requirements without showing an example...

They must be durable - think bumpersticker water and heat resistance. The perfect sticker will be dark red around the edges and fade to light pink or white in the center. A black barcode will be printed in the center, and I would like to have white lettering in the dark red portion closer to the edge, so it must print in both black and white colors (no monochrome). We are cost sensitive and want to stay under an absolute max investment of $2,000 ready to go after equipment and software; $1,000 to $1,500 would be much better. The stickers will have a definite primary shape, looking down the road we realize that we may want to have more shape options, so electronic cutting that will allow any shape is a real plus. While a single device has its benefits, I am not opposed to using seperate printer and cutter.

I met with a Brady ID rep today and they recommended their BBP33 printer. The first problem is that it prints monochrome in black or white, depending on the ribbon. Then there's the cost of at least 90 cents per sticker using off the shelf sticker stock, and I am scared to find out what custom, die-cut stock will run us. I think we can do better, but am at a loss right now. I found websites that do smaller runs of custom die cut stickers far more complex than our requirements, but so far the how has not been easy to find, and here's a great example: Home | DieCutStickers.com

So, has anybody been down this road before or have any ideas I haven't thought of? Any ideas are GREATLY appreciated!

 

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[LightHouse]

If you are going to be cutting vinyl, you wont be getting a fade at all. You are talking about print stickers, and no you can not do anything quality with that equipment budget. Your best bet is to design the sticker, and take it to a local sign shop and have them print/cut you some stickers. You will be much, MUCH better off doing things that way.

 

[Milkanic]

Haven't used them but their pricing is great. I'm waiting on some samples for some poster prints.

Cheap Die Cut Sticker Printing - PrintKEG

 

[Kurt]

Great suggestions, but my big problem is in the number of stickers per run. I literally need to do runs of 3 or 6 or 10 stickers of a completely unique design (i.e. unique barcode & number) that may never be repeated again, then switch to the next run, then the next, then the next. PrintKEG requires runs of at least 25, and based on previous print jobs that I've had done in the past I am expecting the same from sign makers and local print shops as LightHouse suggested.

I really thought some sort of label printer or small plotter/printer and a cutter would be the way to go, but it's proving to be much harder than I expected. Tiny runs with this kind of detail are a tall order, it seems.

 

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[CommonCents]

funny, was just thinking about this yesterday when I saw a clear printed decal on a car window of a school logo, kids name and #. Must be a school fundraiser for athletics. So someone is printing unique die cuts.

 

[Kurt]

funny, was just thinking about this yesterday when I saw a clear printed decal on a car window of a school logo, kids name and #. Must be a school fundraiser for athletics. So someone is printing unique die cuts.

I sure wish they'd tell me who they were!

 

[Kurt]

Okay, so I've learned a few more things. First, I looked into the custom sports related car window stickers that CommonCents referred to and found that all customization takes place inside a common shape. They are also all monochrome (generally white printing), which really doesn't meet my requirements.

Solvent Digital Priting is what I believe I need after further digging, but even desktop models are quite expensive considering they are little more than inkjet printers with some sort of heater to quickly volatilize the solvent ink carriers. A small printer of this type would work along with a hand operated die press for now, so please post up if you can point me toward a model closer to my price point.

 

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[LightHouse]

Okay, so I've learned a few more things. First, I looked into the custom sports related car window stickers that CommonCents referred to and found that all customization takes place inside a custom shape. They are also all monochrome (generally white printing), which really doesn't meet my requirements.

Solvent Digital Priting is what I believe I need after further digging, but even desktop models are quite expensive considering they are little more than inkjet printers with some sort of heater to quickly volatilize the solvent ink carriers. A small printer of this type would work along with a hand operated die press for now, so please post up if you can point me toward a model closer to my price point.

The reason i have suggested what I did is because I have built and sold a company that does exactly what you are asking. You are looking at the printer price only, not even software, training and everything else that goes with just the printer.Your expenses will be 5x what you are even looking at. Yes solvent printing is what you want, by you also want to get it laminated.... Go to a sign shop and get the min ordered, if you want to make it cheaper on yourself, have the design done for them. Meaning ask them how to put it in ready to print/cut format so you can provide it and they can throw it in the que.

 

[healthstatus]

If your diecut is going to remain the same, I would recommend you get some custom diecut avery type stock in a large run of 500-1000 sheets, then get a color laser printer and print your one offs as needed. Or preprint and diecut the static parts of the sticker, then use a laser to print the parts that change.

Your run size is killing you, it will literally take longer for someone to setup the device than will to run the production.

Also, since many barcode scanners use a red laser, you really need to check printing your barcode over any color, as the scanners actually read the white space, not the black.

 

[Kurt]

The reason i have suggested what I did is because I have built and sold a company that does exactly what you are asking. You are looking at the printer price only, not even software, training and everything else that goes with just the printer.Your expenses will be 5x what you are even looking at. Yes solvent printing is what you want, by you also want to get it laminated.... Go to a sign shop and get the min ordered, if you want to make it cheaper on yourself, have the design done for them. Meaning ask them how to put it in ready to print/cut format so you can provide it and they can throw it in the que.

Well that's definitely not the direction I wanted to take, but I do hear you. I will make some phone calls around town and see how this shapes up, but it's a little disappointing because this approach is going to force us to leave money tied up in inventory for a small item that supports the real service our business is built around, and it won't allow us to be as responsive as I would have liked. If that's the reality then we will have to deal with it.

By the way, I am in Louisville, KY if anyone has an existing sign/printing shop to recommend.

 

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[Kurt]

If your diecut is going to remain the same, I would recommend you get some custom diecut avery type stock in a large run of 500-1000 sheets, then get a color laser printer and print your one offs as needed. Or preprint and diecut the static parts of the sticker, then use a laser to print the parts that change. Your run size is killing you, it will literally take longer for someone to setup the device than will to run the production.

In the beginning, the shapes will be the same, so I will see what Avery has to offer in durable custom diecut stock - I just recognize that we may wish to add shapes in the future. The one offs and extremely short runs make this a serious challenge, but it can't be done any other way - each set must have a unique code and 5 digit number.

The main reason I haven't really looked at using color laser or other more typical printers is that the stickers will often end up exposed to rain, sweat, sun and even mud in rare cases. Simple label printers are up to the durability task, but they are virtually always monochromatic.

Also, since many barcode scanners use a red laser, you really need to check printing your barcode over any color, as the scanners actually read the white space, not the black.

Agreed. Our prototypes have had the barcode over a white background on top of the solid red, but ultimately we would like to fade to white or near-white because it will look the best while maximizing barcode readability. We have tested on several background colors and shades of those color with good results so fading to a light shade or white will only make it work better.

 

[healthstatus]

The main reason I haven't really looked at using color laser or other more typical printers is that the stickers will often end up exposed to rain, sweat, sun and even mud in rare cases. Simple label printers are up to the durability task, but they are virtually always monochromatic.

If your top stock is correct, then laser toner (which is mostly plastic) will actually melt into the fibers, so then it is just up to the adhesive. If your label is going to be outside, reds are really bad about fading in sunlight.

I used to work at a company that did grocery store labels, with barcodes and this weeks special pricing and all that. Someone like that can do the job, but as you said the minimums are going to kill you. Unless you can just print up 3000 labels and then pull them from inventory as you need them.

 

[Kurt]

I talked with a printer up the street and think I may have come up with a solution...

On standard printer paper, we can print 5 rows of 4 stickers each, and each row can have a unique design. Although the designs contain a barcode, the entire sticker is nothing more than a png or other image file, so now we are talking about printing a page as though it was a single image. If they have a 500 page minimum run, then we produce 500 pages of codes for a total of 2,500 sets of 4 stickers each in inventory - it would be no different than if we asked them to print off a 500 page report, really. Each sheet can be laminated before cutting, and if need be we can start with a hand press and stamp them out ourselves. Unless anyone finds something wrong in my thinking, this should be doable.

Healthstatus, I hadn't thought much about fading, but it's not the biggest concern I have at this point because while there will be some sun exposure, it won't be as though they are left out in the elements all the time, but will be exposed when the customer is engaged in certain activities. In any case, I will talk with the printing company about fade resistance and I appreciate the input!

 

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[LightHouse]

Lamination is for sun exposure, the laminate protects the ink from breaking down from UV light(the sun). Cutting the stickers out yourself is a terrible idea, you are not factoring in the cost of your time at all here. If they can print/laminate/cut for you I would go with that and move ahead.

 

[Kurt]

Lamination is for sun exposure, the laminate protects the ink from breaking down from UV light(the sun). Cutting the stickers out yourself is a terrible idea, you are not factoring in the cost of your time at all here. If they can print/laminate/cut for you I would go with that and move ahead.

I asked for a price with and without cutting, so we will see where they come in. I see that I can buy a plotter cutter instead of a manual press for maybe $800 +/- that I could use to do a sheet at a time, just like using a printer. Still to labor intensive to do that ourselves, LightHouse?

 

[LightHouse]

I asked for a price with and without cutting, so we will see where they come in. I see that I can buy a plotter cutter instead of a manual press for maybe $800 +/- that I could use to do a sheet at a time, just like using a printer. Still to labor intensive to do that ourselves, LightHouse?

It doesn't work like that, you do not just get a plotter and cut stickers, you would have to have a printer/plotter that could see the reference points on the printed page, and also the same artwork file with the vector outlines to do the correct cut. You are also forgetting software and the learning curve. Your time/money investment is better spent outsourcing it, i do not know how many times i have to repeat that.

 

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[Milkanic]

Agreed, unless you are selling stickers for a living, don't dick around with buying any equipment for this.

What are these stickers for? Would it work to print the die cut stickers with an empty white space or hole and the stick another round/square sticker with the barcode/number in the white space? A sticker on a sticker basically.

 

[Kurt]

It doesn't work like that, you do not just get a plotter and cut stickers, you would have to have a printer/plotter that could see the reference points on the printed page, and also the same artwork file with the vector outlines to do the correct cut. You are also forgetting software and the learning curve. Your time/money investment is better spent outsourcing it, i do not know how many times i have to repeat that.

Over the years I have outsourced very little at home or work, and some of the DIY projects have included finishing a complete basement, building a very unique fence and designing/building custom datalogging devices. I am not at all opposed to outsourcing, but I always like to thoroughly understand what it would take to do things myself and then make an informed decision so that I'm comfortable that I am not spending money on something that could be done easily myself. That appears not to be the case here and I don't doubt you - I came into this knowing nothing about printing stickers and am just trying to understand my options the best I can and it sounds like I am heading quickly into outsourcing.

 

[Kurt]

Agreed, unless you are selling stickers for a living, don't dick around with buying any equipment for this.

What are these stickers for? Would it work to print the die cut stickers with an empty white space or hole and the stick another round/square sticker with the barcode/number in the white space? A sticker on a sticker basically.

I will probably start a progress thread soon to describe the exact use since we are going to start beta testing the system within the next few weeks. I hadn't thought of the sticker on a sticker approach, and while it would definitely work I don't think it would give the professional finish we're looking for. I'm going to see what kind of pricing my first contact comes back with for a complete job and then shop around a couple more local printers to see how price effectively I can get this done.

 

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[LightHouse]

Over the years I have outsourced very little at home or work, and some of the DIY projects have included finishing a complete basement, building a very unique fence and designing/building custom datalogging devices. I am not at all opposed to outsourcing, but I always like to thoroughly understand what it would take to do things myself and then make an informed decision so that I'm comfortable that I am not spending money on something that could be done easily myself. That appears not to be the case here and I don't doubt you - I came into this knowing nothing about printing stickers and am just trying to understand my options the best I can and it sounds like I am heading quickly into outsourcing.

Right, the problem here is you aren't valuing your time at all. Principles this forum is built around. I don't know your background but if you really want anything to take off, you have to stop working so much IN your business and start working ON it. Outsourcing things like this is key, in fact the time you spent evaluating it, you could have had them already and be progressively moving forward with the project and on to the next thing.

At this point, you are your own worst enemy, and it doesn't matter if it's a funds thing because either way you will have to spend.

Good luck with getting everything worked out though. I would also compare prices online to on demand printers, you can hire someone to create the correct artwork files you need, then get some on demand printer to print/lam/cut them. Just like you would the sign shop, there are places online that will do it as well and ship them to you.

 

[Kurt]

Right, the problem here is you aren't valuing your time at all.

There's probably truth in that; DIY is my automatic go-to approach, and I do appreciate you pointing out that it may not be in the best interest of the business. I'll be sure to shop the online vendors out as well as I had some very good experience with a project I did last year leading up to this whole thing. After all's said and done, I have to say it amazes me how hard it is produce a freaking sticker... ! I really thought it wouldn't be much of an issue, but I'm happy to roll with it.