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Anti-China Sentiment

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Jaco

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From various polls over the weekend: 2/3 of Americans ‘don’t like China’, and 40% of Americans say they may stop buying goods made in China.

I’ll completely swerve the political agendas and reputability of the various pollers, and focus on the trend. There does seem to be something to this. And one direction that C0VlD-19 seems to be taking the world, whether it likes it or not, is toward nationalism.

Do we think view like those above could carry some permanence to them? Does anyone sourcing out of China have concerns? Does a pivot to sourcing domestically, even at a higher cost, have any credence?
 
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Pink Sheep

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From various polls over the weekend: 2/3 of Americans ‘don’t like China’, and 40% of Americans say they may stop buying goods made in China.

I’ll completely swerve the political agendas and reputability of the various pollers, and focus on the trend. There does seem to be something to this. And one direction that C0VlD-19 seems to be taking the world, whether it likes it or not, is toward nationalism.

Do we think view like those above could carry some permanence to them? Does anyone sourcing out of China have concerns? Does a pivot to sourcing domestically, even at a higher cost, have any credence?
Thing is.. even if you source from china, you can still be an american company. And those 2/3 would never think twice about it.
From a business standpoint it dont see the big deal.

Its only natural that people want to blame someone for losing their job or their misfortune.So why not blame another culture? I bet you that in 80 years there will still be people racist towards chinese people, just as there are people racist towards vietnamese people. Its unfortunate, but not surprising.

Here in Europe we're not going towards nationalism at all. Countries are working hard together to solve the crisis in the best solution possible based on what economies fit well, virus reproduction rates etc.
 

Bobby_italy

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Thing is.. even if you source from china, you can still be an american company. And those 2/3 would never think twice about it.
From a business standpoint it dont see the big deal.

Its only natural that people want to blame someone for losing their job or their misfortune.So why not blame another culture? I bet you that in 80 years there will still be people racist towards chinese people, just as there are people racist towards vietnamese people. Its unfortunate, but not surprising.

Here in Europe we're not going towards nationalism at all. Countries are working hard together to solve the crisis in the best solution possible based on what economies fit well, virus reproduction rates etc.
I don't know where you're from in Europe but Italy was denied all funds until the issue affected other european countries...
Europe works together only when everyone has the same problem, everyone here is complaining about the "help" from europe and Italy is one of the founding states.
Please make an example on what countries are co-operating, because here the nationalism is as high as ever and we'll soon probably have our own version of Donald Trump, but ours is a clown and doesn't even have the life experience of donald.
 

jpn

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Please make an example on what countries are co-operating, because here the nationalism is as high as ever and we'll soon probably have our own version of Donald Trump, but ours is a clown and doesn't even have the life experience of donald.

Here's a list of what European countries have done to help each other, including Italy: Coronavirus: European Solidarity in action

There is a lot of "news" out there shared by "news agencies" funded by Russian and Chinese interests. And perhaps some Italian politicians also would be best served by pointing to the EU to distract from their own failures. Be careful who's narrative you trust.

Please also note that the EU is not allowed by law to interfere in healthcare.
 
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Bobby_italy

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Here's a list of what European countries have done to help each other, including Italy: Coronavirus: European Solidarity in action

There is a lot of "news" out there shared by "news agencies" funded by Russian and Chinese interests.

Please also note that the EU is not allowed by law to interfere in healthcare.
We have free healthcare that was not what I was referring to, the link you posted has no real impact on the country, nice actions yes but won't help in the big picture...

I was talking about economical help and funding.
 

Noo

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Please make an example on what countries are co-operating, because here the nationalism is as high as ever and we'll soon probably have our own version of Donald Trump, but ours is a clown and doesn't even have the life experience of donald.

Portuguese here.

The vibe I'm feeling here where I live is:

PT-ESP-ITA-GRE-FRA are "the real Europeans", or at least a different kind of Europe (also a bankrupted one lol).

Germany has Merkel, who is a great European also.
Most of the countries are just here breathing air.
Then you have Hungary, who should be kicked out because it seems to be a pseudo-dictatorship now.
Then you have those 3-4 countries who are just arrogant (basically the ones who refused the coronabonds). One of them wants to be a fiscal paradise in Europe, but don't want to reward its citizens accordingly, but also don't want to compensate more the EU for the status (so, it's profits are high, but basically let's keep our debt low and the money for ourselves - The Netherlands).

I am not saying I agree, I think it's what most people are saying.
EDIT: still, this isn't worth it. Mostly is just memes or people without any notion of the truth.

Now, serious things:

what is true today, might not be true tomorrow and talking doesn't translate into sells.

Some people might boycott Chinese products, but most of the people who say they do that, they don't actually do it, or if they do it, they don't do it for long.
Why? Because people talk a lot of shit, honestly. Yes, I would still try to sell myself as an American, but if the product is better or cheaper, people will still buy it.

Actually for every person who thinks the Chinese are "the bad ones", you have 1 or 2 people who don't think about that, or who will say the opposite.

Unless you're in the tourism industry, you shouldn't be much worried about this. Maybe there will be some impact, but not more than for example, the impact that it will have the fact that people have so much less money nowadays.

I bet people in Italy will buy less Volskwagens in the next quarter but not because some might hate Germany, but because they have less money. That should be everyone preoccupation right now.
 

Bobby_italy

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Portuguese here.

The vibe I'm feeling here where I live is:

PT-ESP-ITA-GRE-FRA are "the real Europeans", or at least a different kind of Europe (also a bankrupted one lol).

Germany has Merkel, who is a great European also.
Most of the countries are just here breathing air.
Then you have Hungary, who should be kicked out because it seems to be a pseudo-dictatorship now.
Then you have those 3-4 countries who are just arrogant (basically the ones who refused the coronabonds). One of them wants to be a fiscal paradise in Europe, but don't want to reward its citizens accordingly, but also don't want to compensate more the EU for the status (so, it's profits are high, but basically let's keep our debt low and the money for ourselves - The Netherlands).

I am not saying I agree, I think it's what most people are saying.
EDIT: still, this isn't worth it. Mostly is just memes or people without any notion of the truth.

Now, serious things:

what is true today, might not be true tomorrow and talking doesn't translate into sells.

Some people might boycott Chinese products, but most of the people who say they do that, they don't actually do it, or if they do it, they don't do it for long.
Why? Because people talk a lot of shit, honestly. Yes, I would still try to sell myself as an American, but if the product is better or cheaper, people will still buy it.

Actually for every person who thinks the Chinese are "the bad ones", you have 1 or 2 people who don't think about that, or who will say the opposite.

Unless you're in the tourism industry, you shouldn't be much worried about this. Maybe there will be some impact, but not more than for example, the impact that it will have the fact that people have so much less money nowadays.

I bet people in Italy will buy less Volskwagens in the next quarter but not because some might hate Germany, but because they have less money. That should be everyone preoccupation right now.
let's see the choices when they have to spend the money, I'm at the shop two brands one is amazing the other one is JUST Made in *Country* and costs double just for that... nationalism is fine but I wanna see you spend more money for the same or even worse product because let's face it to make it more profitable people ruin quality even in Italy/USA etc....

By the way Italy if given a referendum choice may even exit after this crisis, that's the vibe I get from people, the only ones who'd want to stay in are students because of erasmus etc..
 
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Noo

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the only ones who'd want to stay in are students because of erasmus etc..

They're looking only to themselves?

If Italy exits the EU, that's a completly different conversation. But let's wait for the money actually come in. Not because I think will be bought with money, but the opposite: people tend to be precipitated when they're angry or under stress.
 

Bobby_italy

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They're looking only to themselves?

If Italy exits the EU, that's a completly different conversation. But let's wait for the money actually come in. Not because I think will be bought with money, but the opposite: people tend to be precipitated when they're angry or under stress.
It's more about how our politicians complain and make it look like every problem could be solved by europe etc...

I don't agree with neither part because I'm not interested in political talk just stating how the situation is.
 

Noo

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It's more about how our politicians complain and make it look like every problem could be solved by europe etc...

I don't agree with neither part because I'm not interested in political talk just stating how the situation is.

I understand.
Same here.
 
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Kevin88660

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A lot is just talk. Even UK on of the best buddy of U.S. is not boycotting Hua Wei’s 5g,

U.S. and China are two giants contesting for power. Most other small countries are watching and playing lip service. They are waiting to see who the winner is before they jump on the winning bandwagon.
 

jpn

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We have free healthcare that was not what I was referring to, the link you posted has no real impact on the country, nice actions yes but won't help in the big picture...

I was talking about economical help and funding.

The Italian government is perfectly able to borrow money. Every country in Europe needed to do so to help fund the fight against corona.

Even so a fund was quickly set up: Coronavirus: EU finance ministers agree on €500 billion emergency fund

And:

 

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Not buying anything made from China is like saying you won’t eat sugar.

If sounds good in theory but then you realize it’s in everything and give up.
 
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Walter Hay

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This thread was about sentiment, so I will comment on that and the effect on importers of any anti-China sentiment.

For years the apparent driver of anti-China sentiment was the belief that Chinese products were of poor quality. So what happened? Westerners bought the cheap stuff anyway, because it was cheap.

Some small importers and some big name buyers discovered that they could in fact get better quality products from China by avoiding haggling to the last 1/2 cent.

The current anti-China sentiment appears to be driven by all the media reporting of criticism of China's handling of the Covid19 outbreak. In the very short term I expect that some Western consumers will be prepared to pay extra to avoid buying Chinese made, but I can't see that lasting, particularly when their income has been affected by the pandemic.

Meanwhile, importers might wake up to the fact that (according to UN Statistics) in 2018 China produced 28% of the world's manufactured products.

That means the rest of the world manufactured 72%!

So why do small importers put their blinkers on and only look in the direction of China? The answer is simple. Locating and buying goods from China is a simple process. Importers have been spoon fed.

I admit to feeling frustrated that for years my calls here on the forum, and in my sourcing and importing book, to look at importing from other countries have largely gone unheeded.

A number of readers of my book have reported success in sourcing products from the 72% of manufacturers beyond China. Some have declared here on this forum that they have obtained better quality at lower cost.

But why so few? It's because most are LAZY.

Although I have done the hard work for them of locating and investigating the genuineness of a huge number of sourcing sites in other countries, and in many cases included instructions on how to navigate those sites; IT'S JUST TOO DAMNED HARD for most. I can't spoon feed them like Alibaba does.

I have never hidden the terrible truth that it does require more effort, more thought, and more time.

With current worldwide trade problems I suggest the first bit of thinking on the subject should be:

"What are the possible benefits of shifting my sourcing away from China?"

Walter
 
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Jack Hammer

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This thread was about sentiment, so I will comment on that and the effect on importers of any anti-China sentiment.

For years the apparent driver of anti-China sentiment was the belief that Chinese products were of poor quality. So what happened? Westerners bought the cheap stuff anyway, because it was cheap.

Some small importers and some big name buyers discovered that they could in fact get better quality products from China by avoiding haggling to the last 1/2 cent.

The current anti-China sentiment appears to be driven by all the media reporting of criticism of China's handling of the Covid19 outbreak. In the very short term I expect that some Western consumers will be prepared to pay extra to avoid buying Chinese made, but I can't see that lasting, particularly when their income has been affected by the pandemic.

Meanwhile, importers might wake up to the fact that (according to UN Statistics) in 2018 China produced 28% of the world's manufactured products.

That means the rest of the world manufactured 72%!

So why do small importers put their blinkers on and only look in the direction of China? The answer is simple. Locating and buying goods from China is a simple process. Importers have been spoon fed.

I admit to feeling frustrated that for years my calls here on the forum, and in my sourcing and importing book, to look at importing from other countries have largely gone unheeded.

A number of readers of my book have reported success in sourcing products from the 72% of manufacturers beyond China. Some have declared here on this forum that they have obtained better quality at lower cost.

But why so few? It's because most are LAZY.

Although I have done the hard work for them of locating and investigating the genuineness of a huge number of sourcing sites in other countries, and in many cases included instructions on how to navigate those sites; IT'S JUST TOO DAMNED HARD for most. I can't spoon feed them like Alibaba does.

I have never hidden the terrible truth that it does require more effort, more thought, and more time.

With current worldwide trade problems I suggest the first bit of thinking on the subject should be:

"What are the possible benefits of shifting my sourcing away from China?"

Walter
Is there any way a nobody in the import/export business like myself can help connect companies with manufacturers outside of China?
 

GravyBoat

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Semi off topic but:

This thread was about sentiment, so I will comment on that and the effect on importers of any anti-China sentiment.

For years the apparent driver of anti-China sentiment was the belief that Chinese products were of poor quality. So what happened? Westerners bought the cheap stuff anyway, because it was cheap.

Some small importers and some big name buyers discovered that they could in fact get better quality products from China by avoiding haggling to the last 1/2 cent.

The current anti-China sentiment appears to be driven by all the media reporting of criticism of China's handling of the Covid19 outbreak. In the very short term I expect that some Western consumers will be prepared to pay extra to avoid buying Chinese made, but I can't see that lasting, particularly when their income has been affected by the pandemic.

Meanwhile, importers might wake up to the fact that (according to UN Statistics) in 2018 China produced 28% of the world's manufactured products.

That means the rest of the world manufactured 72%!

So why do small importers put their blinkers on and only look in the direction of China? The answer is simple. Locating and buying goods from China is a simple process. Importers have been spoon fed.

I admit to feeling frustrated that for years my calls here on the forum, and in my sourcing and importing book, to look at importing from other countries have largely gone unheeded.

A number of readers of my book have reported success in sourcing products from the 72% of manufacturers beyond China. Some have declared here on this forum that they have obtained better quality at lower cost.

But why so few? It's because most are LAZY.

Although I have done the hard work for them of locating and investigating the genuineness of a huge number of sourcing sites in other countries, and in many cases included instructions on how to navigate those sites; IT'S JUST TOO DAMNED HARD for most. I can't spoon feed them like Alibaba does.

I have never hidden the terrible truth that it does require more effort, more thought, and more time.

With current worldwide trade problems I suggest the first bit of thinking on the subject should be:

"What are the possible benefits of shifting my sourcing away from China?"

Walter

I wanted to personally thank you Walter for your help and aid in sourcing from Mexico.

We are currently working with Mexican suppliers, mostly based on your advice.

I really appreciate it. Yes it's harder. Yes it's more barrier to entry. Will it be more rewarding? We shall find out.
 

Sanj Modha

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Customer: I refuse to buy 'made in China'.

Me: OK, here's our 'made in the US' collection.

Customer: Wow, that's 40% more expensive. Do you have a discount code?

Me:
 
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PizzaOnTheRoof

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40% of Americans are either lying or ignorant.
What they should’ve polled is how many Americans would buy a comparable product that’s made in the USA vs China.
 

Walter Hay

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Is there any way a nobody in the import/export business like myself can help connect companies with manufacturers outside of China?
In my book there are 39 links to genuine B2B sourcing sites outside of China, in addition to several more in China. In many cases I have included instructions on how to navigate those sites. You will find thousands of manufacturers in those countries.

Fastlane members wanting to find manufacturers in places other than China can search using those links.

Walter
 

Ing

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Not buy things from China?
Never drive a car again?
Never in a train? A plane....
seriously?..

A friend built crankcases for BMW 450 bikes. Than they gave a chinese busines a job to build them . They had 4 weeks time to deliver the right quality. They succeeded and the BWW 450 engine crankcases all came from China. Some still work and noone knows they are Chinese.
BMW pure German product.

and I dont think that was the last.

M-technik wheels cost OEM about 20 US-Dollar. Sold for 700 or so. German product.
 
Last edited:

Kevin88660

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Anti-China sentiment always existed historically and recently got amplified.

I believe it is due to Chinese being competitive as a “market spoiler”.

There were waves of anti-Chinese immigration to the west because Chinese workers Work ethic and wages were a threat to the unions. Sure business owners loved them but the in a democracy unions are more powerful as union workers have more vote counts.

Fast forward to present.. many Chinese construction companies are winning projects because they bid the lowest.. and they lose a hell lot of money. I can empathize with their more expensive Korean and Japanese competitors..“We didn’t lose to cheaper competitors. We lost to people on suicide mission”. It isnt because Chinese are deliberately losing money to sabotage their competitors...as Chinese construction firms move oversea they are unfamiliar with oversea market that have higher regulation cost due to higher pollution control and safety standards.

The American winning industries like wall street, Hollywood or silicon valley compete based on technology, branding and expertise..so even if you lose out to them your wont starve.

The Chinese business has been competing on lower cost, harder grind on human labor and work ethic, and economics of bigger scale. When you have such competitors if makes your life miserable. If you are a consumer in the market Looking to lower your cost and expense Chinese products will be a God sent gift.

Thats what I believe is the whole anti-China sentiment about. People made up excuses such as Chinese stealing intellectual property rights and some Chinese products have state subsidy.. You know thats technically true but thats not why Chinese products are competitive or why business hate Chinese competitors.
 

metallon

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The heat between US and CCP is intensifying every day.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1hc_1zcKgI


At my ex-company (India), they are seeing a surge in RFQ for mfg from European countries. This is an opportunity for India, Vietnam and similar countries.

I am wondering how is this situation affecting businesses around the world?
 
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Walter Hay

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Check this out: Trade Partners
Explains the situation quite well imo. USA has got reasons to be mad at China.
Suppliers in any country will happily accept orders if the customer can pay. The USA importers have fouled their own nest by greedily ordering at low cost from suppliers in China.

Those suppliers in China would be crazy to refuse orders if they can make profits - which they can even though US importers demand lower and lower prices. The Chinese can meet those demands by slightly reducing quality.

Here is a short extract from my sourcing and importing book:
"If a manufacturer is producing ten million widgets each year and can save 10c per widget by shaving a fraction of an inch off the thickness of plastic used, that gains them an extra profit of $1,000,000."

This not only explains why Made in China has a bad name, but it also explains why China has become a manufacturing superpower. Who do you blame?

Walter
 

Walter Hay

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The heat between US and CCP is intensifying every day.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1hc_1zcKgI
The US negotiators seem unaware that in general, the Chinese people have an ingrained
determination to not lose face. I have encountered this countless times when negotiating face to face in China, and quickly learned the lesson of how to generate a win/win outcome. This obviously also applies in inter/government negotiations.
At my ex-company (India), they are seeing a surge in RFQ for mfg from European countries. This is an opportunity for India, Vietnam and similar countries.

I am wondering how is this situation affecting businesses around the world?
India is far from being the only country to experience that surge in RFQs. India is fast catching up with China, and I expect India to overtake China in the not too distant future.

Since publishing the 2021 edition of my book I have guided quite a few Fastlane members to successfully source quality products at reasonable prices without having to resort to buying from China.

Some in Europe are now buying from the USA, and some in the USA are buying from Europe.

Walter
 
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From a historical perspective, the anti-China sentiment is a result of China's fantastic development that now challenges the hegemony of the West. China, for my Grandmother born in 1928, was synonym with extreme poverty and hunger. 2 generations later, China is synonym with rich tourists and world manufacturer.

How about that?

I agree a 100% with Walter Hay. China wouldn't be what it is today if world importers had not been greedy and lazy sourcing products to China + outsourcing everything there as well. Doing so forced manufacturers to share their knowledge which gave China an enormous advantage, added to all the others that they had: cheap workers, from a culture that values education and work, lots of raw material, and a deep hunger for making money.

What did you expect?

This anti-China sentiments stems from jealousy from the West, which sees China doing better and succeeding where the West is failing (coronavirus, social peace, economic development, social mobility, research and patterns, and now, the military).

When Nixon reestablished ties with China, the idea was that dealing with China would eventually made the Chinese more like us. Diplomats believed China would have but not choice to reform politically and open economically.

None of this happened. This day-dreaming stopped in the last years of the Obama presidency, who suddenly realized China wasn't getting more Western. It was getting more Chinese.

As such, US foreign policy (the EU being too busy to focus on itself and hence, absent in the debate) shifted from the Middle-East to refocus on South-East Asia, where China is building military bases in the South-China Sea and making military alliances with traditional US allies (eg: Philippines).

Ok I could talk about this for hour, but I ll conclude now.

The bottom line is that China is not our friend. They have a different world view and vision than we do, one where democracy and freedom of speech are not on the menu. As such, it is crucial that we decrease our economic reliance on China, brought back our jobs, or outsource in friendly countries. For the US, it would be Mexico.

For the EU, my bet is on Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, and Balkans countries.

There is a lot of work to do, and certainly a lot of money to be made.
 

Kevin88660

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From a historical perspective, the anti-China sentiment is a result of China's fantastic development that now challenges the hegemony of the West. China, for my Grandmother born in 1928, was synonym with extreme poverty and hunger. 2 generations later, China is synonym with rich tourists and world manufacturer.

How about that?

I agree a 100% with Walter Hay. China wouldn't be what it is today if world importers had not been greedy and lazy sourcing products to China + outsourcing everything there as well. Doing so forced manufacturers to share their knowledge which gave China an enormous advantage, added to all the others that they had: cheap workers, from a culture that values education and work, lots of raw material, and a deep hunger for making money.

What did you expect?

This anti-China sentiments stems from jealousy from the West, which sees China doing better and succeeding where the West is failing (coronavirus, social peace, economic development, social mobility, research and patterns, and now, the military).

When Nixon reestablished ties with China, the idea was that dealing with China would eventually made the Chinese more like us. Diplomats believed China would have but not choice to reform politically and open economically.

None of this happened. This day-dreaming stopped in the last years of the Obama presidency, who suddenly realized China wasn't getting more Western. It was getting more Chinese.

As such, US foreign policy (the EU being too busy to focus on itself and hence, absent in the debate) shifted from the Middle-East to refocus on South-East Asia, where China is building military bases in the South-China Sea and making military alliances with traditional US allies (eg: Philippines).

Ok I could talk about this for hour, but I ll conclude now.

The bottom line is that China is not our friend. They have a different world view and vision than we do, one where democracy and freedom of speech are not on the menu. As such, it is crucial that we decrease our economic reliance on China, brought back our jobs, or outsource in friendly countries. For the US, it would be Mexico.

For the EU, my bet is on Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, and Balkans countries.

There is a lot of work to do, and certainly a lot of money to be made.
I think for the average small guy living outside China is an opportunity rather than a challenge. At least you can benefit from E-commerce.

The rise of China is becoming a challenge for big players. China used to be perfect for mncs. Provide a cheap source of production of manufacturing components and keep all the high margin for themselves.

Not any more. As China wants to move to the higher value ladder chain. Chinese growth is based on a “your margin is my opportunity”.

Your country can trade less with China choosing to do more trade with Mexico and Ukraine. But that is not stopping Mexico and Ukraine from doing business with China. “Doing less business with China” becomes what everyone says but no one does.
 

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