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RANT 9-5 is the modern evil

luniac

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There is nothing on gods green earth that i would want to do 8 hours a day 5 days a week.
Not sex, not my favorite sport, not my favorite video games, not reading, not movies, not chilling at the beach,

and most certainly not something i dont even want to do like day job work.

F*ck the 9-5 its an unnatural spawn of industrialization and will not exist in 100 years.
Those of us trapped in the middle of it must F*ckin escape this devil.

Its not even efficient! studies have shown productivity plummets after only a few hours, the only reason we still have 9-5 is because society is so rigid to change.
part time work would be healthier and more productive, if i ever have employeed id only hire for part time work.

/endrant
 

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pingu

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actually as a 21yo male, sex for a 9-5 doesnt sound too bad....

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There is nothing on gods green earth that i would want to do 8 hours a day 5 days a week.
Not sex, not my favorite sport, not my favorite video games, not reading, not movies, not chilling at the beach,

and most certainly not something i dont even want to do like day job work.

f*ck the 9-5 its an unnatural spawn of industrialization and will not exist in 100 years.
Those of us trapped in the middle of it must F*ckin escape this devil.

Its not even efficient! studies have shown productivity plummets after only a few hours, the only reason we still have 9-5 is because society is so rigid to change.
part time work would be healthier and more productive, if i ever have employeed id only hire for part time work.

/endrant
.
I think wage stagnation has gone on long enough society has got to the point just before Ford, where doubling wages and halving hours of workers made economic sense. We only have 8 because hours were halved, and that was eventually the only way wnybify could compete with Ford.

I don't know of any company adopting a 20 hour work week though. There is no latter day Ford.
 
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luniac

luniac

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I think wage stagnation has gone on long enough society has got to the point just before Ford, where doubling wages and halving hours of workers made economic sense. We only have 8 because hours were halved, and that was eventually the only way wnybify could compete with Ford.

I don't know of any company adopting a 20 hour work week though. There is no latter day Ford.
What's gonna happen is the demand for full time work will drop further and further. People will start freelancing more and more.

Eventually there will be noone left to work full time, not to mention robots taking up all the menial type work.

Huge societal changes will certainly occur within our lifetimes, but i REALLY dont want to be one of those suckers who were born at the wrong time to waste away my life at a 9-5.

Fastlane FTW!
 

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What's gonna happen is the demand for full time work will drop further and further. People will start freelancing more and more.

Eventually there will be noone left to work full time, not to mention robots taking up all the menial type work.

Huge societal changes will certainly occur within our lifetimes, but i REALLY dont want to be one of those suckers who were born at the wrong time to waste away my life at a 9-5.

Fastlane FTW!

Freelancers are in an even better position to force the change. Why work 40 hours for 40k when you can work 20 hours for 40k? Have control set your own hours.

There is kind of this notion that 40 hours is full time work, what happens if 75% of the population decides to adopt the 21 hour a week movement?

I read 25% is the number needed for social change,so watching the stats of part timers by choice (inc freelancers) would give an idea of how close you are. Depending on your age, you might be at the wrong time or the right time for death of the 9 to 5 for the majority.

You can fastlane for time rather than money. My money tree fruit is time.

Oh and I spoke to one developer who moved from Palo Alto to Utah (I'm not sure how hard that is) for a pay cut and a 10 to 2 job. Yes that's slow lane but the agency seems to have a lot of demand.

Part time doesn't seem to have the popularity with employers on the US it does in Europe . I wonder how much of the skills shortage is because employers don't offer that and people can slow lane freelance and just work those hours instead.
 
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luniac

luniac

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Freelancers are in an even better position to force the change. Why work 40 hours for 40k when you can work 20 hours for 40k? Have control set your own hours.

There is kind of this notion that 40 hours is full time work, what happens if 75% of the population decides to adopt the 21 hour a week movement?

I read 25% is the number needed for social change,so watching the stats of part timers by choice (inc freelancers) would give an idea of how close you are. Depending on your age, you might be at the wrong time or the right time for death of the 9 to 5 for the majority.

You can fastlane for time rather than money. My money tree fruit is time.

Oh and I spoke to one developer who moved from Palo Alto to Utah (I'm not sure how hard that is) for a pay cut and a 10 to 2 job. Yes that's slow lane but the agency seems to have a lot of demand.

Part time doesn't seem to have the popularity with employers on the US it does in Europe . I wonder how much of the skills shortage is because employers don't offer that and people can slow lane freelance and just work those hours instead.
honestly a 10-2 slowlane is very unscripted.
That's night and day difference compared to 8 hours a day.
 

LittleWolfie

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honestly a 10-2 slowlane is very unscripted.
That's night and day difference compared to 8 hours a day.
There common in Europe though. I'd say just about everyone who wants to be part time is part time. Some people who don't want to be part time are because it's easier to get a 10 hour job than a 40 hour job
 
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luniac

luniac

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There common in Europe though. I'd say just about everyone who wants to be part time is part time. Some people who don't want to be part time are because it's easier to get a 10 hour job than a 40 hour job
its funny cause here in nyc it was easier for me to find full time work than part time.
and this is without health benefits and much less pay of course.

ima try to save as much extra money as i can for the inevitable day i get sick of this job and be out once again.
that is unless my fastlane takes off first.
 

LittleWolfie

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its funny cause here in nyc it was easier for me to find full time work than part time.
and this is without health benefits and much less pay of course.

ima try to save as much extra money as i can for the inevitable day i get sick of this job and be out once again.
that is unless my fastlane takes off first.
Yes it comes up a lot As culture shock suffered by US expats. It's also how some of the European start-ups try to compete with silicon valley for talent they can't offer top notch money. However 28 days pto on your first year, seems to be a draw. (An example given by someone of why left the US for Berlin)
 
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luniac

luniac

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Yes it comes up a lot As culture shock suffered by US expats. It's also how some of the European start-ups try to compete with silicon valley for talent they can't offer top notch money. However 28 days pto on your first year, seems to be a draw. (An example given by someone of why left the US for Berlin)
ehh don't really matter at the end of the day as long as u got time to work on the fastlane.
 

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LittleWolfie

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ehh don't really matter at the end of the day as long as u got time to work on the fastlane.
Well, it might if your hiring employees for your fastlane company? This is in off topic, so it seems like a what might happen would fit.

Also a change like that could open up fastlane options.
 

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What's gonna happen is the demand for full time work will drop further and further. People will start freelancing more and more.

Eventually there will be noone left to work full time, not to mention robots taking up all the menial type work.

Huge societal changes will certainly occur within our lifetimes, but i REALLY dont want to be one of those suckers who were born at the wrong time to waste away my life at a 9-5.

Fastlane FTW!
That is interesting what you wrote.

I read people that are close to 'robot jobs' and they say it won't happen. Robots won't 'take over' and there will be no universal income for everyone (not going into details).

Another one is that there might be a problem with maintaining current manufacturing jobs/companies e.g. in Europe because there aren't enough people born to replace those who run the factories now (look at Sweden). Not to mention popularity of sociology degree over 'dirty' engineering degree...

Definitely there will be changes but some of them not exactly how we imagine...

But I agree 120%. It's ridiculous that today, with the internet, and all these tools, we work the same way Henry Ford developed it over a hundred years ago... It's insanity in it's purest form...
 
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luniac

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That is interesting what you wrote.

I read people that are close to 'robot jobs' and they say it won't happen. Robots won't 'take over' and there will be no universal income for everyone (not going into details).

Another one is that there might be a problem with maintaining current manufacturing jobs/companies e.g. in Europe because there aren't enough people born to replace those who run the factories now (look at Sweden). Not to mention popularity of sociology degree over 'dirty' engineering degree...

Definitely there will be changes but some of them not exactly how we imagine...

But I agree 120%. It's ridiculous that today, with the internet, and all these tools, we work the same way Henry Ford developed it over a hundred years ago... It's insanity in it's purest form...
true, can't predict for sure what's gonna happen. Gonna be interesting.
 

LittleWolfie

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true, can't predict for sure what's gonna happen. Gonna be interesting.

Possibly starting to drift off topic. However 11 hours is now the same production as 40 in 1950

Productivity and the Workweek - shorter hours

If we had kept the same levels of productivity and reduced hours, then we would be on 11 hour work weeks. With a possible drop in unemployment if we had decided to keep the companies going 40 hours a week then the Jetsons four hour day is not far off the mark (since the wife didn't work) George was doing two full time jobs in his society, no wonder he complained so much!

Interesting but perhaps irrelevant until your looking for employees.
 
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luniac

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Possibly starting to drift off topic. However 11 hours is now the same production as 40 in 1950

Productivity and the Workweek - shorter hours

If we had kept the same levels of productivity and reduced hours, then we would be on 11 hour work weeks. With a possible drop in unemployment if we had decided to keep the companies going 40 hours a week then the Jetsons four hour day is not far off the mark (since the wife didn't work) George was doing two full time jobs in his society, no wonder he complained so much!

Interesting but perhaps irrelevant until your looking for employees.
wow that was interesting article thanks, never thought of it in those terms.
 

Jason "GrandK"

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There is nothing on gods green earth that i would want to do 8 hours a day 5 days a week.
MJ writes about the current Scripted phenomena in his book UnScripted.

You see, once upon a time men who could not pay a debt became a slave to the one whom they owed a debt to. They would then settle the debt through years of indentured service to their master. You can read about this in the book The Richest Man in Babylon.

Nowadays, we are taught from a young age to be consumers and we voluntarily agree to be slaves to our masters. The system is designed to create lifelong slaves who makes just enough to spend it on so-called leisure, providing the appearance of freedom.

Henry Ford is said to have had a hand in the 40 hour work week. Prior to 5 day work week, people used to work 6 days. Henry Ford stated that “It is high time to rid ourselves of the notion that leisure for workmen is either ‘lost time’ or a class privilege.” See Ford factory workers get 40-hour week - May 01, 1926 - HISTORY.com From that statement, you would think Ford was looking out for the best interest of the workers.

But guess what was really at the heart of Ford's move to the 40 hour work week? Here is what Ford's motivation was for the 40 hour workweek. "The harder we crowd business for time, the more efficient it becomes. The more well-paid leisure workmen get, the greater become their wants. These wants soon become needs. Well-managed business pays high wages and sells at low prices. Its workmen have the leisure to enjoy life and the wherewithal with which to finance that enjoyment." And then, "But it is the influence of leisure on consumption which makes the short day and, the short week so necessary. The people who consume the bulk of goods are the people who make them. That is a fact we must never forget -- that is the secret of our prosperity." HENRY FORD: Why I Favor Five Days' Work With Six Days' Pay - Wikisource, the free online library

It is all about the bottom line and how to make men work harder, consume more and become more and more entrenched in the Scripted path. It is the path of modern day slavery.
 

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actually as a 21yo male, sex for a 9-5 doesnt sound too bad....

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I'm with you!! lol I'm almost 53 but I was going to say..... hold up here now.... :smuggy:

Actually, I work way more than 8 hours but since I am the boss and I can do what I want, when I want..... I love it! Now if someone told me I had to be there at 9am every morning like my wife has to be..... couldn't do it. Now speaking of my wife and this conversation...... she is a 9-5er. She loves being there and she sometimes stays late. She works in one of the highest class art museums in the world. Before she met me they say it was hard to make her leave work. So there are people that do like it..... just not me or you. I'd have a hard time being there at 9am and leave at 10am. I'm sure I'd call in sick atleast a few times a month. lol
 
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luniac

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MJ writes about the current Scripted phenomena in his book UnScripted.

You see, once upon a time men who could not pay a debt became a slave to the one whom they owed a debt to. They would then settle the debt through years of indentured service to their master. You can read about this in the book The Richest Man in Babylon.

Nowadays, we are taught from a young age to be consumers and we voluntarily agree to be slaves to our masters. The system is designed to create lifelong slaves who makes just enough to spend it on so-called leisure, providing the appearance of freedom.

Henry Ford is said to have had a hand in the 40 hour work week. Prior to 5 day work week, people used to work 6 days. Henry Ford stated that “It is high time to rid ourselves of the notion that leisure for workmen is either ‘lost time’ or a class privilege.” See Ford factory workers get 40-hour week - May 01, 1926 - HISTORY.com From that statement, you would think Ford was looking out for the best interest of the workers.

But guess what was really at the heart of Ford's move to the 40 hour work week? Here is what Ford's motivation was for the 40 hour workweek. "The harder we crowd business for time, the more efficient it becomes. The more well-paid leisure workmen get, the greater become their wants. These wants soon become needs. Well-managed business pays high wages and sells at low prices. Its workmen have the leisure to enjoy life and the wherewithal with which to finance that enjoyment." And then, "But it is the influence of leisure on consumption which makes the short day and, the short week so necessary. The people who consume the bulk of goods are the people who make them. That is a fact we must never forget -- that is the secret of our prosperity." HENRY FORD: Why I Favor Five Days' Work With Six Days' Pay - Wikisource, the free online library

It is all about the bottom line and how to make men work harder, consume more and become more and more entrenched in the Scripted path. It is the path of modern day slavery.
well... at least Ford was being openly honest, ill give him that.

it makes me kind of sick at the thought "the people who consume the bulk of goods are the people who make them"

like a snake eating its own tail or something lol
 

Jason "GrandK"

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well... at least Ford was being openly honest, ill give him that.

it makes me kind of sick at the thought "the people who consume the bulk of goods are the people who make them"

like a snake eating its own tail or something lol
We humans seem to be our own worst enemies. Like Oscar Wilde states, "We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell."

I doubt Ford would be as open and honest today. With the internet, such a diabolical scheme would quickly be attacked as the charade that it is. In his day and age, he was probably giving that confession to his peers, not to the general public. And since guys like Rockefeller owned the press, it was never going to leak to the general populace, unless framed as benevolence.
 
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luniac

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We humans seem to be our own worst enemies. Like Oscar Wilde states, "We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell."

I doubt Ford would be as open and honest today. With the internet, such a diabolical scheme would quickly be attacked as the charade that it is. In his day and age, he was probably giving that confession to his peers, not to the general public. And since guys like Rockefeller owned the press, it was never going to leak to the general populace, unless framed as benevolence.
it doesn't help that all land is now privatized. You can't simply say "to hell with all this" and go live in the forest.
 

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But guess what was really at the heart of Ford's move to the 40 hour work week? Here is what Ford's motivation was for the 40 hour workweek. "The harder we crowd business for time, the more efficient it becomes. The more well-paid leisure workmen get, the greater become their wants. These wants soon become needs. Well-managed business pays high wages and sells at low prices. Its workmen have the leisure to enjoy life and the wherewithal with which to finance that enjoyment." And then, "But it is the influence of leisure on consumption which makes the short day and, the short week so necessary. The people who consume the bulk of goods are the people who make them. That is a fact we must never forget -- that is the secret of our prosperity." HENRY FORD: Why I Favor Five Days' Work With Six Days' Pay - Wikisource, the free online library
Ah yes, mediocre comfort...

IMG_0435.JPG
 

Jason "GrandK"

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Ah yes, mediocre comfort...

View attachment 20103
I remember reading that section for the first time. It was crazy because it was at the same time I was gorging myself on John Taylor Gatto YouTube videos. Gatto is constantly pounding the table about how Ford and his boys (Rockefeller, Carnegie, et al) set education up to benefit the uber wealthy.
 

LittleWolfie

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Sure Ford might have been doing it for his own benefit(after all it was hard for the other manufactures to compete for the Labour without offering 6 days pay for 5 days work and it got the workers engaged and kept the floor disciplined because everyone wanted their job. Compare the modern 32 hour week employers. Compare the equivleant productivity between Germany and USA despite much more PTO.

Ironically before Ford, it was almost a pure gig economy, you'd pay people per job. Hiring people and keeping them on staff, so you could keep training and get more experienced workers, not looking your best workers during dry spells, meant he could offer a service that SUCS as dj would put it.

I'm sure Ford was a fastlaners.

I'm not sure the internet would cause as much problem, sure the reasoning would spread quicker but so would the benefits to the individual, the recruitment and well, who would turn down the extra time off for the same pay because they didn't like the philosophy? When everyone started doing it, only the self employed could.
 

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I doubt Ford would be as open and honest today. With the internet, such a diabolical scheme would quickly be attacked as the charade that it is. In his day and age, he was probably giving that confession to his peers, not to the general public. And since guys like Rockefeller owned the press, it was never going to leak to the general populace, unless framed as benevolence.
You know that if you speak to 'an average person', it won't make any difference. You can show evidence of the truth. Doesn't matter. There are plenty of examples on the internet. They own the media but you have youtube and everything is there. So what?

I heard from my friends "You would have to be a doctor, dietician, lawyer, account, car mechanic and so on... and I don't have time for this." And they are right. But that's how it is and most people are too lazy to change it. And I see a chance for everyone there, because it's where you can outpace them. We should be happy for that.

it doesn't help that all land is now privatized. You can't simply say "to hell with all this" and go live in the forest.
Not more than 150 years ago there were no passports and border controls... Can you imagine?

Not more than a 100 years ago you could just take your family and neighbours and build a house in three weeks. No permits, no bureaucracy. That's how it happened and it wasn't so long ago.....
 
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You know that if you speak to 'an average person', it won't make any difference. You can show evidence of the truth. Doesn't matter. There are plenty of examples on the internet. They own the media but you have youtube and everything is there. So what?

I heard from my friends "You would have to be a doctor, dietician, lawyer, account, car mechanic and so on... and I don't have time for this." And they are right. But that's how it is and most people are too lazy to change it. And I see a chance for everyone there, because it's where you can outpace them. We should be happy for that.



Not more than 150 years ago there were no passports and border controls... Can you imagine?

Not more than a 100 years ago you could just take your family and neighbours and build a house in three weeks. No permits, no bureaucracy. That's how it happened and it wasn't so long ago.....
yea it i can imagine and it frustrates me.
I may have found the fastlane path but I really feel bad for the rest.
I wish we could all be free, id rather be poor than be rich exploiting the ignorant.
but there's nothing i can do, this dynamic is fundamentally ingrained into modern society on every level.

even if i dont hire anyone and make apps myself for example, there's countless full time ignorant employees somewhere keeping the whole thing running. It is what it is.
 

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