The Entrepreneur Forum | Financial Freedom | Starting a Business | Motivation | Money | Success

Welcome to the only entrepreneur forum dedicated to building life-changing wealth.

Build a Fastlane business. Earn real financial freedom. Join free.

Join over 80,000 entrepreneurs who have rejected the paradigm of mediocrity and said "NO!" to underpaid jobs, ascetic frugality, and suffocating savings rituals— learn how to build a Fastlane business that pays both freedom and lifestyle affluence.

Free registration at the forum removes this block.

5+ Months Project Failed Miserably.. Case Study.. What's Next?

LPPC

Bronze Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
85%
Mar 6, 2016
394
336
32
Hey guys,

So I've been working on this (my very first real) project/online store for 5+ months and spent near $100 dollars on Facebook ads with 0 sales. I would really appreciate some advice on what to do next. Is there still any hope for a successful store or should I take the lessons and start another project? What is wrong with my shop?

1403215923_brutal_lessons_4_failed_startups.jpg


I was looking for a product to start selling until I came across an ad for Plazmatic x (same product) on my facebook news feed. We've all heard the advice that if we want to be successful, we should model what successful people do. So I thought to myself: it should work with business too, so I'm going to model what Plazmatic X is doing. They are advertising and they've been in business at least for the 6 months I've been working on this, so they must be doing good business and this product is selling on Facebook. If they did not make money, they would be out of business right?

Why invent everything yourself from scratch, when you can model something that is already working? So I thought...

I decided to start selling the same kind of product, an electric lighter, but with a different (more beautiful in my opinion) style.

My online shop www.thorarc.com was born.

I modeled a lot from this competitor company. The facebook ad video is very very similar, my ad copy and layout is very similar, pricing is exactly the same, product is similar. I even paid to have a promo video made for the website (the first video on the site).

Only the website theme is different, but I've included many elements of their website that I thought were important. This is how their website was (they've changed their site now)
https://web.archive.org/web/20161024102259/https://www.plazmatic.com/collections/plazmatic-x

They didn't link the facebook ad to the product page, rather they linked it to the homepage where there is no add to cart button but a grid of the different styles you can choose from. I did the same, maybe I should have linked to the product page with the add to cart button.

I've had 260 visitors to my website through my facebook video ads. Bounce rate is 89,32%. Average session length is 19 seconds. 0 sales. Click through rate of the ad was5%, so that's good.

I spent $15 on PPE objective to get some social proof for my ad. After that I spent $52 on Click to website ads. I also spent 13 dollars on Conversions objective while running the Clicks objective, but cut it because it was underperforming compared to the click to website objective.

I'm still running retargeting ads, with no success. With one of the two retargeting ads I gave the people a coupon code of $20 discount (making the product sell for $29.99), but it apparently doesn't work.

The Clicks to website objective accounted for 80+% of the website visitors and I started that ad on the 17th December (facebook ad disapproval has been a pain in the ***). So it might have been that people already had bought everything for Christmas, so I may have been too late.

I targeted this to men between 18 and 35 years old. I chose men because it seems logical that men want these type of gadgets and also a $3 PPE Ad confirmed it a little bit: 136 men engaged with my post compared to only 41 women.

I targeted my ads to people who like gadgets AND smoke (cigarettes, weed etc).


So, I thought I would have at least gotten 1 sale. How come my competitor is selling, but I can't sell even 1 product?

What should my next steps be? Is there anything so wrong with my website that if I fixed that, I would get sales? Or is it a product that is not selling and I should move on and choose a different product?

Really curious to your opinion.

Thanks guys!
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.
Last edited:

Hai

Beauty is Truth
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
129%
Jan 1, 2015
556
716
34
First, it´s too expensive. You can get it on Amazon for 18.99.
Even with a good value proposition, you can´t go too much higher.
Also, did you try sell on eBay/Amazon to test demand? Did you run market numbers?
Website looks cool, but don´t give up yet. Might need better targeting or website optimization(cant give too much advice on that).
 

fhs8

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
114%
Jan 22, 2016
271
308
Here's what I see wrong with it.

1. It's way too expensive. A regular lighter costs what $1.00? Yours costs $50.00.

2. It's not an improvement. This is no different than hydrogen batteries which completely failed.

3. It's bigger than a lighter.

4. It has to be charged every once in a while in order to use it.

5. There's electric lighters for $20.00.

6. If people are actively searching for it then they'll go for the cheaper one. Otherwise doing impression based ads on Facebook will only get people looking.
 

Waspy

Float like a butterfly
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
461%
Dec 6, 2016
480
2,214
30
U.K.
I would put money on it being price alone.

People see your ad, think "wow, that's cool" (I thought exactly that, and I don't even smoke), click the link, see $50... hello 19 second bounce.

That's exactly what I did on your site. It's not in the impulse buy range, and it really needs to be for a slightly novel lighter...
 

LPPC

Bronze Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
85%
Mar 6, 2016
394
336
32
First, it´s too expensive. You can get it on Amazon for 18.99.
Even with a good value proposition, you can´t go too much higher.
Also, did you try sell on eBay/Amazon to test demand? Did you run market numbers?
Website looks cool, but don´t give up yet. Might need better targeting or website optimization(cant give too much advice on that).
Thank you for the quick response. I haven't tried to sell on Ebay/Amazon yet. What do you mean with running market numbers?

@fhs8 If it's too expensive, what makes it that Plazmatic is still able to sell it for the the same price (49.99)? You guys are right in that it's much cheaper on Amazon.

@topherea great, are you selling these to brick and mortar stores?

@Waspy: Thank you. I think it's the price too. I can get those lighters for 9 dollars from a Chinese manufacturer. Add $6 to that for a fulfillment company, and that's $15 cost already. What price should I sell it for then? Facebook ads cost money too. And besides, still don't know how Plazmatic is able to sell it for that cheap.
 
Last edited:

Waspy

Float like a butterfly
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
461%
Dec 6, 2016
480
2,214
30
U.K.
Before you move to Amazon I would drop your prices, I dunno $25, that's still a good markup. See if you get any sales with your current campaign.

You then need to work out the cost of sale for the various channels. If it costs $6 per sale with Amazon, how many ads can you get for that? How many visitors? How many sales (though ads)?
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Invictus

Silver Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
343%
Apr 6, 2016
235
806
28
Louisiana
Warning: Please take the below post with a grain of salt.


There, got the disclaimer out of the way.



Are you sure that yours is better? Looking at the Web Archive link, your competitor has a huge variety of items. There's a ton of lighters catering to stoners (featuring some of our favorite characters gettin' blazed) and sexy styles that make the lighter look like wood and cracked obsidian,or feature attractive icons.


You mentioned that yours was a different, more beautiful style, but I don't see it. With the exception of the blue light on the side and the logo (which reminds me of a "You need to charge this item" icon on phones), your product looks pretty similar. And all of them are in kinda bland colors. Thorarc just seems kind of boring.

If I smoke weed, am I going to buy the lighter that's a simple color, or the one with my man Pikachu gettin' stoned?

Also, you said that you modeled your website design off of Plazmatic, and I can tell. It looks like you just tried to copy it. Unfortunately, while Plazmatic (the web archived version) looks like a basic storefront, yours looks like a clunky one where you ripped most of their content. Even their tagline! "THE WORLD'S BEST WINDPROOF, USB RECHARGEABLE LIGHTER." is taken and slightly edited.



C'mon man, you're Thorarc! You capture the god of F*cking storms and lightning and use him to light your smoke. Don't have your icon be some cheap electricity symbol, make it Mjölnir, Thor's hammer that's used to crush the skulls of goddamn ice giants.

Your lighter is forged of steel and powered by the most badass forces of nature. A simple press can call up Thor's own lightning and light that pretty girl's smoke. Wielding Thorarc makes you the badass at the party or the concert.

Just like the god himself, you can call a lightning bolt to light your blunt. You're not pushed around by the wind or weather, hell, you control it!



Add some fun and flavor to the site, make it a brand. And either

A) Drop the price, because a quick Amazon search shows me extremely similar products for half the price.

or

B) Justify the price. Why is yours worth $50?


P.S. You didn't fail miserably. You've put up a storefront, learned how to research and place ads. Even if this doesn't work out, you've learned some valuable skills.
 

Jon L

Platinum Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
272%
Aug 22, 2015
1,649
4,489
Bellevue, WA
I do software, so I know very little about this. That said, I usually roll my eyes at posts that start out like yours did, "I spent 5 months trying this and its not working, now what?" Usually, the websites these posters have put together are hopelessly bad. Like, 'just ditch the whole thing, hire a professional team and have them redo the site from scratch' bad.

Yours is not in that category. You did a lot of things right. Your site is attractive. Your product is good. Now, its just time to figure out the secret sauce that will make this work.

I will leave the real feedback to people with actual experience. Some small things I noticed:
1) I don't like the graphics at the top of your website - its confusing. My eyes want to figure out what the site is about, and that location is where I go to do that. Instead of an easy-to-understand picture with a few well-chosen words, I see a bunch of graphics with small text. It took me an uncomfortable amount of time to figure out what I was looking at.
2) I tried clicking on the reviews, and that didn't take me anywhere. This was a red-flag to me. (maybe the guy just created this 4.5 star review graphic to make me think things are cool, but he doesn't have any actual reviews.)
3) I'd like to know up front how many cigarettes I can light with this thing on one charge.
4) I agree that the logo needs to change. You're going for 'elegant.' There's gotta be a way to incorporate the whole Thor theme (be careful of trademarks) into an elegant logo.
5) Not sure what to say about price. $50 is a lot for a lighter. I'm no expert here though...and if your competition is selling the same thing for $50, then there's opportunity here.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

fhs8

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
114%
Jan 22, 2016
271
308
Thank you for the quick response. I haven't tried to sell on Ebay/Amazon yet. What do you mean with running market numbers?

@fhs8 If it's too expensive, what makes it that Plazmatic is still able to sell it for the the same price (49.99)? You guys are right in that it's much cheaper on Amazon.

https://www.plazmatic.com/pages/e-rep-program-terms-of-service

They are marketing a lot more and are much better at it than what you're doing. However whether or not something is selling is irrelevant. What matters more is how many of them are selling. They seem to not sell that much so I would consider it a failure.

Also 90% bounce rate means that your website sucks big time or you're marketing to people not remotely interested in electric lighters. How do you even manage to get a 90% bounce rate?
 
Last edited:

hughjasle

AutoPilot
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
418%
Dec 25, 2012
522
2,184
Anywhere with internet
These were HUGE..... a year ago. Lots of big companies came out running them and opened them up to affiliates to run them. LOTS of money was made. This is a GOOD product, but competition is SUPER HIGH. Plasmatic is not your biggest competitor BTW. They just have the best known brand out there. The other ones that made all the money were the ones that opened it up to affiliates.

Hard to compete with those guys. They were paying affiliates $50 per sale.... let that sink in.

That means these affiliates who know how to run traffic were making MORE money per sale than you are in doing way less work. They only had to worry about selling it. Not importing, not setting up the business, the websites, etc.

The owner the lighters had the site dialed in hardcore. They weren't just selling lighters. It was buy 5 get 3 free, + special cases + warranties + a multitude of other products that they can use as upsells and email drops.

I still think there is room to make money with these lighters as they are better than traditional lighters. You will just have to make these appear better and at this point, better pricing. The competition and race to the bottom in pricing is the reason I never pursued this product. A year ago, there were less than 10 people selling these on amazon and they were all at $50 a piece. Products like this have SHORT lifespans. You can make a killing if you are one of the first to it, but as you can see now on amazon, that doesn't last.

Side note - you are getting ripped off from whoever you are buying them from. I can get them for $3.50 including shipping/customs to my US fulfillment.
 

MidwestLandlord

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
759%
Dec 6, 2016
1,479
11,226
Uh yeah. Pricing is an issue.

$50?

I sell thousands of lighters a year, I guarantee you I couldn't sell one for $50

In my experience with offline tobacco store selling, $20 is about the limit for expensive lighters. $19.99 is the sweet spot.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

_Master_Shake

Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
234%
Nov 28, 2016
29
68
Illinois
I'm not a marketing expert or even novice,so take my advice with a grain of salt.

The pricing of your product reflects a premium, kind of what Apple does, but yet you have it all on "sale". Having everything on sale devalues your brand, you never see Apple having any sales. Make people feel like they should be honored just to be able to buy your product. That's what premium is about, not accessible to everyone, exclusivity.

Move all those logos like "Free Shipping" "One Year Warranty" somewhere else, they're cluttering up the page and are right in your face when you open the site. Does your product suck so bad that you need to sell people on the warranty first? Makes me immediately think that its some cheap crap made in a 3rd world country.

I agree with @Invictus, you're using Thor in your name, have some killer graphics with Thor belching out giant flames while fighting a 3 headed monster or something, not some cheesy "my phone is plugged in" indicator. Maybe some tattoo artist can help you draw something up, they love shit like that.
 

MidwestLandlord

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
759%
Dec 6, 2016
1,479
11,226
We've all heard the advice that if we want to be successful, we should model what successful people do. So I thought to myself: it should work with business too, so I'm going to model what Plazmatic X is doing.

I targeted this to men between 18 and 35 years old. I chose men because it seems logical that men want these type of gadgets and also a $3 PPE Ad confirmed it a little bit: 136 men engaged with my post compared to only 41 women.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/adult_data/cig_smoking/

By Gender2
Men were more likely to be current cigarette smokers than women.

  • Nearly 17 of every 100 adult men (16.7%)
  • More than 13 of every 100 adult women (13.6%)
Why not target women? 13.6% of them smoke. I look at plasma lighters on Amazon, and see the one's I carry on my shelves, and I don't see anything directed at women. Why not? Who says women wouldn't like this product?

I have no idea if marketing to women would work. But it is something your sea of competition is not doing.

My thoughts on this (in no particular order):

1) Website is OK, but not great. I really don't like that the product page duplicates the homepage. Reviews should be clickable. I had to find the reviews by clicking on the review from "Charley" on your homepage. The "$69.99" crossed out turned me off. Your product should probably be the first thing everyone see's, not the warranty and what not. Are you selling a lighter or a warranty?
2) Lighter is boring compared to competition with dragon's and whatnot on them. Don't like the lightning bolt design. Love the X from the plasma arcs.
3) Price is WAY high. Your competition is NOT plasmatic X, it is every other lighter brand that sells for $20 on Amazon and smoke shops / c-stores. You have a $15 - $20 lighter at most.

I personally think this has potential. Would it ever scale to fastlane? Probably not, but it could give you some healthy sales I think, if you can get your retail price and wholesale costs down. As @hughjasle said though, it is a race to the bottom for this type of lighter. So if you pursue this, keep in mind it's probably going to be "whoever has the cheapest price wins"

The one with the cheapest price is usually the one with the deepest pockets too.

Don't wanna be discouraging, I commend your hard work on this.

Edit:

One other thing. Can I light a Swisher Sweet cigar with this? Premium cigar smokers would never light their cigar with a plasma lighter (premium cigar smokers are snobs, I would know, I am one lol)

But people that buy Black & Mild's and Swisher's WILL light up with one of these, according to customer feedback at my stores.

If they can, you need to advertise that fact.
 
Last edited:

Invictus

Silver Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
343%
Apr 6, 2016
235
806
28
Louisiana
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/adult_data/cig_smoking/

By Gender2
Men were more likely to be current cigarette smokers than women.

  • Nearly 17 of every 100 adult men (16.7%)
  • More than 13 of every 100 adult women (13.6%)
Why not target women? 13.6% of them smoke. I look at plasma lighters on Amazon, and see the one's I carry on my shelves, and I don't see anything directed at women. Why not? Who says women wouldn't like this product?

I have no idea if marketing to women would work. But it is something your sea of competition is not doing.


This is a really good point. It could be a market that is barely being targeted. When there's so many other competitors you may have better luck either targeting a super-specific audience or an underserved one. In regards to the former, looks like Plazmatic is targeting stoners (also violating some copyrights).
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

MidwestLandlord

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
759%
Dec 6, 2016
1,479
11,226
This is a really good point. It could be a market that is barely being targeted. When there's so many other competitors you may have better luck either targeting a super-specific audience or an underserved one. In regards to the former, looks like Plazmatic is targeting stoners (also violating some copyrights).

Thanks @Invictus

http://www.jwraps.com/All_Jwrap_Designs_s/2186.htm

One of my other thoughts with the OP's lighter is it would be perfect for wraps, like they do for vaping. See link above. This is another thing plasma lighter competitors are not doing.

1) Sell the lighter pre-wrapped
2) Sell the lighter with a selection of wraps (2-3) that the customer puts on themselves
3) Sell wraps separately

Wraps would be a super easy way to target women too. Keep in mind though @LPPC , that a wrapped lighter would make the lighter seem lower in quality. But if your price point reflects that, it shouldn't be a problem.

Sell a $20 lighter, with a $10 wrap = $30...if you have good margin, that's not a bad place to be.

@LPPC , you literally copied your competition right down to the website. Why? Make this product your own, make it different, fill people's needs, and you might just have a viable product.
 

MidwestLandlord

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
759%
Dec 6, 2016
1,479
11,226
It's the price, $50 for a lighter????????? That's ridiculous lol

I agree, except it's not just the price. If he drops prices he just joins the herd. It needs to be cheaper AND different, or exceptionally different enough to warrant the $50

I think it could warrant the price if it was branded. Football teams or whatever. But of course, he'd have to pay for the licensing.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

thinkandgrowrich

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
168%
Nov 29, 2016
191
320
38
I agree, except it's not just the price. If he drops prices he just joins the herd. It needs to be cheaper AND different, or exceptionally different enough to warrant the $50

I think it could warrant the price if it was branded. Football teams or whatever. But of course, he'd have to pay for the licensing.
You are absolutely right.
-------

OP you were on the right track, the goal is not to invent a superior product (that would take too much time and capital), the goal is to take an already established product and make it superior through superior advertising and marketing.

Your products have no brand image, no personality. Plazmatic X's narrative is that they have created a revolutionary lighter that is eco-friendly and looks badass. The reality though is that its just another F*cking plasma lighter, I can get one on ebay that is just as good for like $5. But they made it look cool and badass, and there is nobody out there that doesn't want to look and feel cool or badass lol (espiecially young people).

https://www.instagram.com/plazmatic/
look at their instagram, pictures of cute girls using their product, testimonials, pictures of people lighting up a blunt with their lighters appealing to young people who smoke weed and wanna look cool, pictures of lighters with a beautiful landscape in the background, etc. Anyone who has done a little bit of studying on advertising and marketing can see right through their bullshit, but hey, it works.

The beauty of lighters is that it can appeal to many different demographics, cigar smokers, weed smokers, cigarette smokers, pipe smokers, women smokers, men smokers, old smokers, young smokers, etc. Pick your target market, find out what they want, and create a brand image that caters to what they want.

At the top of your site you list a bunch of features of your product, nobody gives a shit about those. All plasma lighters do the same thing. People want to buy into a brand that makes them feel exclusive, cool, hip, badass, sexy, etc. The technical features should come second to all that.

Look at Zippo for example, they've become the premier lighter brand because of their advertising. They banked on advertising to the public that their products are tough, durable, last forever, and are used by sexy women, military men, and other tough guys all across the world.
 
Last edited:

biophase

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
474%
Jul 25, 2007
9,122
43,266
Scottsdale, AZ
First off let me just say that you are the type of entrepreneur that I hate.

Plasmatic sells at $50 so I can copy them and sell at $50. LOL

I've had people copy my websites and disappear within a year.

You thought you copied them exactly but don't know their Facebook audience at all.

Maybe they lose money on every single FB click but make it on their list.

Or as Hughjasle said, maybe their affiliates are running the ads for $50 cpa.

You have no edge. All you can do is copy. If they make their buy button pink, you change yours to pink a week later... a week after their cure for cancer sale ends.

On the positive side, your website looks decent but just copying a website isn't enough.

Learn to think for yourself.
 

Longinus

Platinum Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
441%
Aug 28, 2014
1,132
4,995
Poland / Belgium
You made the same mistake I made several times: jumping on a cool new product, thinking it would unchain revolutions worldwide. But that only happens in our minds. I think other people recognize this as well.

You lost $100 on facebookads and you don't speak about inventory which makes me think you are dropshipping this. If you are really losing only $100 on this, don't even consider this a failure.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

LPPC

Bronze Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
85%
Mar 6, 2016
394
336
32
@Invictus Ouch! That's a slap in the face. But I need this tough love. Thank you very much! Mjölnir as the logo would be badass! I need to work on my creativity and copywriting , so that I can write and think like you do.
And indeed, I've learned a lot of skills that will be useful in my future endeavors.
+ rep transferred

@Jon L Thanks so much! I agree with all of your points basically. With ''logo'', I guess you mean the blizzard on the product itself? Or the Thorarc trademark?
+ rep transferred

@fhs8 Thanks man. How do you know they aren't selling that much? They indeed have the marketing down. I even saw an ad on youtube for it.
I really don't know why my bounce rate is so high! Do you have any idea why? Maybe they see the price and bounce because it's too high?
+rep transferred

@hughjasle Look at what we've got here, some INSIDERS's information :) Very interesting to know the history of this product. If I understand you correctly, there is still room to make money with these lighters but you are choosing (even now) to not pursue this product because there are more worthwhile products to pursue? So for you, your time is spent better pursuing another product. Why I'm asking this? I just like to pick your brain :p
You say that these products have short lifespans. With this you mean that after a while these products will still sell, but the margin will be slim? So it's not that it will stop selling soon? I also sent you a message if you don't mind. Thanks again Hugh!!
++ rep transferred

Edit: could you name some other competitors?

@MidwestLandlord Thanks man! It's good to know what the price should be.

@_Master_Shake Thanks for your input! I agree with moving the warranty symbols etc somewhere else. I don't think a logo should be too complicated, but I can certainly use some Thor artwork on the site and as pictures on the product itself. I will maybe use Mjölnir as logo, as @Invictus suggested ;)
About the sales, I understand that not having sales gives a premium feel to it. But on the other hand sales work, it's good marketing too I think. Why do you think that in this case it's more important to give a premium feel to it than to have sale marketing do its trick? Mind you, I will be lowering the price by a lot.

@MidwestLandlord Golden! Haven't thought about that. This might be an unfulfilled need indeed! So I could basically choose colors and prints that are more feminine.This might be the ultimate solution to differentiate myself in the market.
you've made some very good points my friend.
About the "$69.99" crossed out, you mean I shouldn't make it a sale?
I think Swisher Sweets are a little bit thicker than a normal cigarette? It lights cigarettes easily, but for anything thicker, it's not that ideal. I mean you can still light them, but a normal lighter would work better.
Thank you very much.
++ rep transferred

About the wraps, not a bad idea for an upsell! Well, I literally copied some parts because I wanted to know if it would also work for me. If it did, then I would have changed it when I really got started and scaled. So some parts of the website are temporary.

@thinkandgrowrich You are absolutely right, their marketing is light years ahead. They also indeed have better designs. I was being blind to it I guess. Thanks man :)
+ rep transferred

@biophase Harsh, but true, comments like yours makes me love this community. Thanks man.
+reps transferred

@Longinus I'm not dropshipping. It's not only about the money, it's about the time. But I've learned so much now. Especially thanks to you guys!


A lot to think about, need some time to let it sink in. Thanks again guys!
 

MidwestLandlord

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
759%
Dec 6, 2016
1,479
11,226
Thanks for the reps.

I don't know if marketing to women would work. If you try it, don't blame me haha.

As for the $69.99 thing, you went from "holy crap that's expensive!" to..."holy crap that's expensive!" so you didn't gain anything, and neither did your customers.

Discounting is tricky. Lower price does NOT always equal higher volume, as you discovered. Long term sales, or obviously fake sales as you did (come on man, it's obviously fake to your customers too), can damage the brand. So the downside with your fake discount is damaging the brand, but where was the upside?

I much prefer to start with a quality product, set it at a reasonable retail price (I use target costing), and then adjust the retail price up or down depending on various factors like volume, margin, competition, and just the fact that I sometimes screw up on my estimate of what it will sell for or what my COGS will be.
 

RHL

The coaching was a joke guys.
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
747%
Oct 22, 2013
1,484
11,082
PA/NJ
Local consignment deals at gas stations. And you can get them for less than $9.

Just bring a few into 10 stations and pitch win wins. Someone will bite

If you have a Wawa near you, their policy is to sell cigs as a virtual loss-leader (lowest price legally allowed) to draw in customers who will then buy sandwiches, etc.

Set up a display with a win-win, no cost to them, big share of profits, right by the register. You'll move units.

Another thing: $100 in FB ads is absolutely nothing. Nothing. Sure, you need to re-tune, and I think price is the biggest issue, but don't sweat that loss. It's not a big test.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

LPPC

Bronze Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
85%
Mar 6, 2016
394
336
32
Thanks for the reps.

I don't know if marketing to women would work. If you try it, don't blame me haha.

As for the $69.99 thing, you went from "holy crap that's expensive!" to..."holy crap that's expensive!" so you didn't gain anything, and neither did your customers.

Discounting is tricky. Lower price does NOT always equal higher volume, as you discovered. Long term sales, or obviously fake sales as you did (come on man, it's obviously fake to your customers too), can damage the brand. So the downside with your fake discount is damaging the brand, but where was the upside?

I much prefer to start with a quality product, set it at a reasonable retail price (I use target costing), and then adjust the retail price up or down depending on various factors like volume, margin, competition, and just the fact that I sometimes screw up on my estimate of what it will sell for or what my COGS will be.

I won't blame you haha

No probs :) Got it! Good breakdown of the pro's and con's of the sale. Haven't thought about the long term consequences actually. But indeed, going from 69 to 49 is still way too expensive while the costumer and myself gain nothing. Thanks again!
 

MidwestLandlord

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
759%
Dec 6, 2016
1,479
11,226
If you have a Wawa near you, their policy is to sell cigs as a virtual loss-leader (lowest price legally allowed) to draw in customers who will then buy sandwiches, etc.

Set up a display with a win-win, no cost to them, big share of profits, right by the register. You'll move units.

Another thing: $100 in FB ads is absolutely nothing. Nothing. Sure, you need to re-tune, and I think price is the biggest issue, but don't sweat that loss. It's not a big test.

Exactly. I am a cig retailer, and this is exactly what happens. I usually demand 40%+ of the retail for the privilege of my front counter space.
 

LPPC

Bronze Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
85%
Mar 6, 2016
394
336
32
If you have a Wawa near you, their policy is to sell cigs as a virtual loss-leader (lowest price legally allowed) to draw in customers who will then buy sandwiches, etc.

Set up a display with a win-win, no cost to them, big share of profits, right by the register. You'll move units.

Another thing: $100 in FB ads is absolutely nothing. Nothing. Sure, you need to re-tune, and I think price is the biggest issue, but don't sweat that loss. It's not a big test.
Very important to think of a very favorable deal for them indeed. An offer they can't refuse ;)
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

hughjasle

AutoPilot
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
418%
Dec 25, 2012
522
2,184
Anywhere with internet
If I understand you correctly, there is still room to make money with these lighters but you are choosing (even now) to not pursue this product because there are more worthwhile products to pursue?
Correct. Too much competition and the newness of them has past IMO.
You say that these products have short lifespans. With this you mean that after a while these products will still sell, but the margin will be slim?
by short lifespans I mean this: (I'm stealing this from Biophase as he's the one who came up with the wording) That is a spotlight product. As soon as it's released, sales will flow and flow fast, BUT so will all these competitors. There will be nothing that sets your lighters apart from theirs so you will all be playing a race to the bottom and find out who can sell for cheapest. While he was just talking about amazon, the same goes for FB marketing.
ith this you mean that after a while these products will still sell, but the margin will be slim?
Slim or impossible to make work. For example, my very first product was one of these spotlight products, I was one of the first on the scene and did very well with it in the first few months with CPA's under $10. Fast forward to 6 months later, I can't profitably get a single sale. I could make sells sure, but I'd spend $150 to make a $100 sale. So yea, losing money.
I also sent you a message if you don't mind
replied.
 

LPPC

Bronze Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
85%
Mar 6, 2016
394
336
32
Correct. Too much competition and the newness of them has past IMO.

by short lifespans I mean this: (I'm stealing this from Biophase as he's the one who came up with the wording) That is a spotlight product. As soon as it's released, sales will flow and flow fast, BUT so will all these competitors. There will be nothing that sets your lighters apart from theirs so you will all be playing a race to the bottom and find out who can sell for cheapest. While he was just talking about amazon, the same goes for FB marketing.

Slim or impossible to make work. For example, my very first product was one of these spotlight products, I was one of the first on the scene and did very well with it in the first few months with CPA's under $10. Fast forward to 6 months later, I can't profitably get a single sale. I could make sells sure, but I'd spend $150 to make a $100 sale. So yea, losing money.

replied.
It's clear now, thanks a lot man! I still have to let it all sink in, but as it appears now I won't be putting too much time in it anymore. Maybe a couple of tests, but nothing big. But I might change my mind tomorrow or so when I read this thread again... Got your inbox reply :)
 

Post New Topic

Please SEARCH before posting.
Please select the BEST category.

Post new topic

Guest post submissions offered HERE.

Latest Posts

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top