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RichieG

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I have searched the forums and couldn't find anything linked to this. So either I have missed it, its a valid question or I am barking up the wrong tree.

The questions is aimed at two forms of expense ( personal and business ) but the same question is asked:

Is it important to control expenses and have a budget?

I appreciate cutting costs, searching for discount vouchers and other similar money saving "tricks" aren't going to make you rich but are they necessary in the short term or does it affect your mindset ( putting a limit on what you can spend )

I often beat myself up about this. At the moment I have a 20% spend rule on income. So if $10,000 dollars comes in I have $2,000 to spend. If it was $100,000 I would have $20,000 etc

Now does that make you just spend that money. Am I best just to take each purchase at a time and not have a % budget? By doing this am I encouraging random purchases into my life

Then from a business point of view. If my internet connection is $50 dollars a month do I spend time trying to find it foor $30 dollars a month. I know MJ is an advocate of time but if costs are tight at home or you are starting out in business those $20 could be crucial. Or again is it giving you the wrong long term mindset. Or I need a laptop - do i buy an MAC for $3000 or a basic laptop for $500. This isn't about image - it is about getting the job done.

If you have $3000 in the business account and you need to buy online advertising - do you sppend $3000 in 1 week and go knee deep quick or spend $3000 over 6 months and trickle to a slow death or enter the fastlane slower.

I hope this is a question that is suitable for this forum as it is something I have always liked to get people's views on but "my crowd" are slow laners so I wouldn't get suitable answers.

So Personal or Business: Is it right or wrong to search for deals, if so is there a limit you would put on deal finding ( say over $1000 ) or does every penny count.

I have read TFM and halfway through unscripted. I may have missed this point from the book and and I will be re reading on a consistent basis as there are so many nuggets in there.

I think deep down I would just like your views on costs/expenses both personal and in business.
 

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I have searched the forums and couldn't find anything linked to this. So either I have missed it, its a valid question or I am barking up the wrong tree.

The questions is aimed at two forms of expense ( personal and business ) but the same question is asked:

Is it important to control expenses and have a budget?

I appreciate cutting costs, searching for discount vouchers and other similar money saving "tricks" aren't going to make you rich but are they necessary in the short term or does it affect your mindset ( putting a limit on what you can spend )

I often beat myself up about this. At the moment I have a 20% spend rule on income. So if $10,000 dollars comes in I have $2,000 to spend. If it was $100,000 I would have $20,000 etc

Now does that make you just spend that money. Am I best just to take each purchase at a time and not have a % budget? By doing this am I encouraging random purchases into my life

Then from a business point of view. If my internet connection is $50 dollars a month do I spend time trying to find it foor $30 dollars a month. I know MJ is an advocate of time but if costs are tight at home or you are starting out in business those $20 could be crucial. Or again is it giving you the wrong long term mindset. Or I need a laptop - do i buy an MAC for $3000 or a basic laptop for $500. This isn't about image - it is about getting the job done.

If you have $3000 in the business account and you need to buy online advertising - do you sppend $3000 in 1 week and go knee deep quick or spend $3000 over 6 months and trickle to a slow death or enter the fastlane slower.

I hope this is a question that is suitable for this forum as it is something I have always liked to get people's views on but "my crowd" are slow laners so I wouldn't get suitable answers.

So Personal or Business: Is it right or wrong to search for deals, if so is there a limit you would put on deal finding ( say over $1000 ) or does every penny count.

I have read TFM and halfway through unscripted. I may have missed this point from the book and and I will be re reading on a consistent basis as there are so many nuggets in there.

I think deep down I would just like your views on costs/expenses both personal and in business.
I'm in a social entrepreneurship course, and part of our assignment to write a business plan is to do up plans for financing, i.e ask for money.

But of course, you need to justify why you have to ask for $XXXXX by putting some cost estimates. And yes, costs vary everywhere.

For instance, Tommy Legal Advisor might charge $200 per hour for advice. But Danny Legal Advisor might charge $150 for the same stuff. I suppose there is a range of acceptability.

I decided to just get costs as reasonable as I think it is, but I leave a bit of extra money ready to face underestimated costs. Not a totally perfect contingency plan, but eventually I think I can expand it.

Later on when you get parts of the biz right and consistent enough to not kill the profits (lol), like fixed costs, then planning can be a bit easier.

IMO, in the beginning, do look for deals as long as it gets you running with what you need. But later on, it would be fine to pay higher prices for what brings you further (e.g. more specialised legal advice or a better accounting software package)
 

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Personal expenses: I like to live by the 60% rule. I never let my lifestyle exceed 60 percent of my income. I think everyone has a different style but this helps me feel comfortable and avoid living outside my means.

When it comes to business: Obviously you want to save money whenever you can. That’s just being responsible. Spending money to save time or grow faster is equally responsible.

I spent years doing my own billing because I didn’t want to spend the money to hire someone else. I saved myself 10-20 hours a month hiring someone and the money I spend on the employee is dwarfed by the productivity increase I have had being able to leave that duty to someone else.
 

GoGetter24

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There's no rule for this. How you keep track of and affect money-in and money-out is the core of business. Just takes experience.

For personal expenses, who the hell wants to be tracking everything they spend things on? Like some of these personal finance people suggest. You just need one basic averaged number: how much is coming in, how much is going out. If that moves in a "bad direction", you pull back on spending.

If you have $3000 in the business account and you need to buy online advertising - do you sppend $3000 in 1 week and go knee deep quick or spend $3000 over 6 months and trickle to a slow death or enter the fastlane slower.
You'd spend more like $100 in 1 week, and confirm the conversion rate. You'd then adjust the offering or pump more money in accordingly. If you get to the point where you've confirmed say $1 in, $2 out, you pump as much money in as you're able.
 

George Appiah

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Is it important to control expenses and have a budget?
Then from a business point of view. If my internet connection is $50 dollars a month do I spend time trying to find it foor $30 dollars a month. I know MJ is an advocate of time but if costs are tight at home or you are starting out in business those $20 could be crucial.
When I read THE MILLIONAIRE FASTLANE, it did not sound the least to me that MJ wants people to spend mindlessly and not fight to get their money's worth.

If you have a leaky pot and don't fix it, it ain't going to get full no matter how much you pour in.

Look at the entertainment and sports worlds for rich celebrities who went broke.

But, at the same time, if you spend all your life mending and guarding your one little pot, that's all you get. Until it breaks one day, and you're left with nothing.

I understood MJ as saying people should invest more time and effort collecting more, bigger and stronger pots. Then it wouldn't matter as much if one is leaky or even breaks.

Here is a real-world example of how concentrating only on cost-cutting, without making any effort to bring in more dough, can lead to your ultimate ruin.

There's this 40-bed hotel I've consulted for (I.T.) throughout its years of existence. The hotel opened 10 years ago with 4-star rating and was the darling of event organizers in the city at the time (due to its strategic location, awesome service... and critically, great FOOD!).

When business slowed during a national power crisis, the owner went into panic mode and started cutting back, beginning with everything considered "non-essential": weekly live band, backup Internet connection, F&B supplies, etc. That was just the first wave.

As these measures brought down expenditure and enabled the hotel to pay its bills... this created the false sense that everything was OK.

But soon the long-time patrons started complaining because they weren't getting their favourite drinks and meals. Service began to suck, and conference attendees started complaining to their organizers. Ultimately, many of these regulars stopped patronizing the place.

Then the second wave of cost-cutting came: all highly paid (but key) staff, including the chef, were made to go. The external security company was given the boot. The swimming pool attendants were made to go, even though the pools remained open for swimming. After a fatal accident, the pools were drained and put out of service completely.

After several cycles of cutbacks (and no attempt to actually address the common guest complaints and drive in new business), the hotel is now down to just a skeleton staff of five (5) untrained and low-paid high-school leavers keeping the property afloat.

Then their mains power was cut off.

While they have two power plants, here is the challenge: how do you justify firing a 100KVA diesel power plant to serve a single guest paying you $50?

I visited the place last week.

The place was very quiet. The big parking lot was completely empty. There was not a single guest at the place.

That's what happens when you focus solely on "cost control", and don't make any effort to bring in more dough!
 

creddit

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For personal expenses, who the hell wants to be tracking everything they spend things on? Like some of these personal finance people suggest. You just need one basic averaged number: how much is coming in, how much is going out. If that moves in a "bad direction", you pull back on spending.
This!

I've tried tracking everything and its a massive pain in the a$$. Maybe if you're really having spending/debt problems it helps to put in perspective where your money is going. Definitely agree with you though - if my delta starts rising after a few months I know its time to stop throwing money.
 
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GoGetter24

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I've tried tracking everything and its a massive pain in the a$$
Interestingly, Rockefeller used to do it. And he did it in a paper ledger book, for every little thing he bought. Makes sense given that he came from being dirt poor (where a dollar was very important), and saw accounts as being the engine of business (you can see most of the internal mechanisms in a lot of businesses just from the accounts).

But yeah can't imagine having the inclination to do it myself.

Would be cool though if bank accounts could do subject-matter aggregation. I.e. beer: 30%, bathroom stuff: 5%, gasoline: 10% etc. Then you could easily apply the 80-20 rule.
 
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RichieG

RichieG

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Interestingly, Rockefeller used to do it. And he did it in a paper ledger book, for every little thing he bought. Makes sense given that he came from being dirt poor (where a dollar was very important), and saw accounts as being the engine of business (you can see most of the internal mechanisms in a lot of businesses just from the accounts).

But yeah can't imagine having the inclination to do it myself.

Would be cool though if bank accounts could do subject-matter aggregation. I.e. beer: 30%, bathroom stuff: 5%, gasoline: 10% etc. Then you could easily apply the 80-20 rule.
The 80/20 rule as in spend 80 save 20? Should this differ depending on income? 2,000 pm and 100,000 pm are big differences? I am swinging towards pretty fixed cost living until you get to a milestone.

So if you earn 2,000 now you may need 1,200 to live on. If you can do this why not wait till 5,000 pm and increase to 1,500.

Does this encorage a basic structure and growth by aiming for higher earnings?
 

SMH

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For personal expenses, who the hell wants to be tracking everything they spend things on? Like some of these personal finance people suggest. You just need one basic averaged number: how much is coming in, how much is going out. If that moves in a "bad direction", you pull back on spending.
Exactly, I save 90% of my income now and I don't see much sense in that. My classmate was talking to me a couple of days ago about how it's wise to save on basic stuff, like buying water in a different shop because it's 20 cents cheaper. I guess it's what happens when you don't know the worth of time. He then told me it's how you become a millionaire, I sincerely hope he was joking.
 

GoGetter24

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He then told me it's how you become a millionaire, I sincerely hope he was joking.
He wasn't; that's what people are actually taught to believe.

But it makes sense why. For most people, that is the rule. They view their income as more or less fixed. They get a salary, and if they're lucky they'll get a 3% 'raise' this year.

For some people, maybe they are lucky enough to have a commission or bonus system, or the opportunity to work overtime, or they have a reasonable chance at a raise or promotion if they do well. But most don't even have that. That's where the cheapness mentality comes from: they feel they can't control revenue, so they control costs (penny pinch).
 

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DVU

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If you are still getting your business from the ground, the only expense you should have are the ones related to your business growing and you staying alive(food, place to stay)

Everything else is a waste of money.
 

MJ DeMarco

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Is it important to control expenses and have a budget?
I never had a budget, but I did *control* expenses.

I appreciate cutting costs, searching for discount vouchers and other similar money saving "tricks" aren't going to make you rich but are they necessary in the short term or does it affect your mindset ( putting a limit on what you can spend )
Smart, I still use coupons and discount offers. The habit never leaves.

At the moment I have a 20% spend rule on income.
Seems reasonable from a personal standpoint when just starting out, but as your income increases, I don't think that is a good place to be at. If you make $200,000/mo, you're giving yourself the OK to spend $40K/mo on bullshit. That is WAY, WAY too much IMO. You should be saving and investing that into a money-system.

Then from a business point of view. If my internet connection is $50 dollars a month do I spend time trying to find it foor $30 dollars a month.
I am loose with business expenses because you never know which expense will increase productivity or bring in mega sales.

do i buy an MAC for $3000 or a basic laptop for $500.
The MAC might be more, but how much is productivity worth?
 

YoungPadawan

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I have searched the forums and couldn't find anything linked to this. So either I have missed it, its a valid question or I am barking up the wrong tree.

The questions is aimed at two forms of expense ( personal and business ) but the same question is asked:

Is it important to control expenses and have a budget?

I appreciate cutting costs, searching for discount vouchers and other similar money saving "tricks" aren't going to make you rich but are they necessary in the short term or does it affect your mindset ( putting a limit on what you can spend )

I often beat myself up about this. At the moment I have a 20% spend rule on income. So if $10,000 dollars comes in I have $2,000 to spend. If it was $100,000 I would have $20,000 etc

Now does that make you just spend that money. Am I best just to take each purchase at a time and not have a % budget? By doing this am I encouraging random purchases into my life

Then from a business point of view. If my internet connection is $50 dollars a month do I spend time trying to find it foor $30 dollars a month. I know MJ is an advocate of time but if costs are tight at home or you are starting out in business those $20 could be crucial. Or again is it giving you the wrong long term mindset. Or I need a laptop - do i buy an MAC for $3000 or a basic laptop for $500. This isn't about image - it is about getting the job done.

If you have $3000 in the business account and you need to buy online advertising - do you sppend $3000 in 1 week and go knee deep quick or spend $3000 over 6 months and trickle to a slow death or enter the fastlane slower.

I hope this is a question that is suitable for this forum as it is something I have always liked to get people's views on but "my crowd" are slow laners so I wouldn't get suitable answers.

So Personal or Business: Is it right or wrong to search for deals, if so is there a limit you would put on deal finding ( say over $1000 ) or does every penny count.

I have read TFM and halfway through unscripted. I may have missed this point from the book and and I will be re reading on a consistent basis as there are so many nuggets in there.

I think deep down I would just like your views on costs/expenses both personal and in business.
I personally think that keeping track of costs/expenses is crucially important.

Think about this.

When John Rockefeller was in his prime, he asked his production workers to use one less drop of solder to seal their oil cans. They tried it, and it successfully sealed the cans.

Overkill? Maybe.

But what Rockefeller realized was that those single drops of solder added up. In fact, those little drops of solder would save him hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Spend like a pauper, earn like a king.
 
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RichieG

RichieG

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Sep 27, 2018
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I never had a budget, but I did *control* expenses.



Smart, I still use coupons and discount offers. The habit never leaves.

This is where I get confused. Listened to others who may have a conflict of interest. I agree time is the most important asset - so if we are searching for coupons and discounts to save $10 on a $100 purchase and you earn $100 a hour would you have to find that coupon in 6 minutes or less.

Seems reasonable from a personal standpoint when just starting out, but as your income increases, I don't think that is a good place to be at. If you make $200,000/mo, you're giving yourself the OK to spend $40K/mo on bullshit. That is WAY, WAY too much IMO. You should be saving and investing that into a money-system.

100% agreed. Youched on this in a later post.

I am loose with business expenses because you never know which expense will increase productivity or bring in mega sales

Very good point. Maybe dip you toes in the water of a few things, monitor then go deep if it works


The MAC might be more, but how much is productivity worth?
Aha! Gotcha

Thankyou
 
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RichieG

RichieG

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Sep 27, 2018
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Aha! Gotcha

Thankyou
I never had a budget, but I did *control* expenses.



Smart, I still use coupons and discount offers. The habit never leaves.



Seems reasonable from a personal standpoint when just starting out, but as your income increases, I don't think that is a good place to be at. If you make $200,000/mo, you're giving yourself the OK to spend $40K/mo on bullshit. That is WAY, WAY too much IMO. You should be saving and investing that into a money-system.



I am loose with business expenses because you never know which expense will increase productivity or bring in mega sales.



The MAC might be more, but how much is productivity worth?
That surprise me with the coupons/discounts as it takes time to search for these. Wonder if there is an upper limit before these kick in. ie on $100,000 saving 5% to gain $5,000 compared with a $100 jean purchase at 5% saving is hugely different? If someone earns $100 an hour to save $5 they would need to find that discount voucher/code in 3 minutes or less to make it pay?

Agree 100% with the 20% and scale down when income increases.

Great point about being loose. Put your fingers in a lot of pies ( revenue raises ) control costs initially, monitor then pick the best pies.

Great point/reminder about productivity ( i currently have a $300 laptop and for me it probably does the same as an MAC. Not really understoood what the MAC brings to the table for so much money )

Thank You
 
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RichieG

RichieG

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Sep 27, 2018
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I personally think that keeping track of costs/expenses is crucially important.

Think about this.

When John Rockefeller was in his prime, he asked his production workers to use one less drop of solder to seal their oil cans. They tried it, and it successfully sealed the cans.

Overkill? Maybe.

But what Rockefeller realized was that those single drops of solder added up. In fact, those little drops of solder would save him hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Spend like a pauper, earn like a king.
This is the bit I need to get my head round. With this mindset is it easy to always look for the most basic efficient option and penny pinching and not live wiith a growth mindset?

I think rightly or wrongly I may be heading down the path of buy less, buy quality but only with what you can afford.

Otherwwise why woould you buy a beachfront apartment, why would you buy a maserati?

Buy a Ford with 100k on the clock - does the job
Buy clothes from a nearly new shop - keeps you warm
Buy food at night when discounted - saves $$$ and gives yoou energy

Surely this mindset limits growth?
 
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RichieG

RichieG

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Sep 27, 2018
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If you are still getting your business from the ground, the only expense you should have are the ones related to your business growing and you staying alive(food, place to stay)

Everything else is a waste of money.
I like this. I like this a lot. Woould be interested to hear your $$$ income would allow non esssential purchases. $5000pm $10000pm $50000pm or maybe its a % of spending v income

This side of business/personal income/spend really intrigues me as we could go through life with essential spending only.
 

Madame Peccato

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I think these kind of rules are fine up to a certain point, as MJ says there has to be a hard cap at some point (and it shouldn't be very high). I do realize it's hard to not spend a lot when you're earning a lot, but I think if your earning increase exponentially your spendings should not increase by the same amount. Say you're used to spend 1k a month with a 1.8k income, if you triple your income to 5.4k, I really don't think there's any sensible way to triple your "leisure" spendings. Sure, go ahead and spend some of the extra cash on your business, or to better yourself, or to improve your quality of life, that's the whole point of running your business (and the point of life itself I'd argue).

You could upgrade what your current habits already are, for example you could spend more to get better results out of yourself, a slightly better apartment, maybe switch gym, maybe spend more in healthier food, maybe you could just enroll in some courses to improve your skills, or learn something, but mindlessly multiplying your spendings is not only dangerous for your finances in the short term, but also in the long run, it forges bad habits, and if your business has a couple hard months you're gonna regret it.
 

LittleWolfie

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. Or I need a laptop - do i buy an MAC for $3000 or a basic laptop for $500. This isn't about image - it is about getting the job done.
.
I got a decent laptop for less than $50.

It wasn't hard to find, look for cheap used laptops. If it is not about image, you need to work out what tasks yoy need, what software you need to use, then you can work out what macjibe can run it. Buying a $3000 mac for word processing and small spreadsheets is like buying a coach to drive to work and back on your own.

If you don't need 64 bits,then you can pick up some really cheap 32 bit laptops. Great for emails,office etc. There is so much Saas stuff now it's becoming way less important to have the power locally.

That surprise me with the coupons/discounts as it takes time to search for these. Wonder if there is an upper limit before these kick in. ie on $100,000 saving 5% to gain $5,000 compared with a $100 jean purchase at 5% saving is hugely different? If someone earns $100 an hour to save $5 they would need to find that discount voucher/code in 3 minutes or less to make it pay?

Agree 100% with the 20% and scale down when income increases.

Great point about being loose. Put your fingers in a lot of pies ( revenue raises ) control costs initially, monitor then pick the best pies.

Great point/reminder about productivity ( i currently have a $300 laptop and for me it probably does the same as an MAC. Not really understoood what the MAC brings to the table for so much money )

Thank You
 

garyfritz

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I've tried tracking everything and its a massive pain in the a$$.
Doesn't have to be. I've used Quicken to track expenses for many years. With the improvements in the last several years it's gotten almost trivial. Hook up Quicken to your credit cards & bank accounts, and it will download all your transactions. A few minutes to categorize things it doesn't recognize, and you're done. And then you have a complete record of your spending. Makes it very easy to see where the money goes. Especially if you don't use cash much, which I don't.
 

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FastNAwesome

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The place was very quiet. The big parking lot was completely empty. There was not a single guest at the place.
This type of story is incredibly common. I've seen it so many times, and don't understand how business owners don't see it.
 

LittleWolfie

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Great point/reminder about productivity ( i currently have a $300 laptop and for me it probably does the same as an MAC. Not really understoood what the MAC brings to the table for so much money )
That's because Apple is a luxury brand. Just like how a lambo doesn't increase your productivity over a Ford. While both increase your productivity over say a moped.
 

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Exactly, I save 90% of my income now and I don't see much sense in that. My classmate was talking to me a couple of days ago about how it's wise to save on basic stuff, like buying water in a different shop because it's 20 cents cheaper. I guess it's what happens when you don't know the worth of time. He then told me it's how you become a millionaire, I sincerely hope he was joking.
When I was in Sun City, Arizona, which had a 55+ older community, all I ever saw were old people going to doctors appointments and clipping coupons. People only on Social Security.

So whenever I see people "saving" like that I just assume old and on social security. lol
 

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