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[PROGRESS THREAD] ChickenHawk's Self-Published Fiction EBooks

MJ DeMarco

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I'm new to the Fast Lane Forum and British, so I might not be understanding everything in this thread correctly. But I do understand Amazon Publishing.

DON'T GIVE UP.

I've been publishing on Amazon since 2012. In 2017 I closed down my other business (very profitable but a big demand on my time) to focus on my publishing business; it's supported me since that day. My example is probably different from you because I'm a non-fiction author, but it's in a relatively small niche of photo editing.

When I started out, there wasn't much competition but then within 12 months my niche became flooded with rubbish and people trying to make an instant profit for no work. I managed to survive and ultimately prosper as I'll explain.

At one time I became fixated on writing more books because of the boost when one launches. Then I realised that's the road to being like the competitors trying to make a fast buck. Instead, I doubled down on quality to produce the best books I could and raised the price (but still within the 70% commission rate).

Next, I focused on building what I call a business ecosystem.

To give an example, when you buy one of my books it contains examples for you to follow. It directs you to my website where you can download the sample images to follow the examples. Whilst you're there I encourage you to join my monthly newsletter as everyone does. But this isn't your standard newsletter, I share more valuable tutorials and interesting things I've found on the internet each month that relate to my niche. As well as tutorials I publish YouTube videos which I embed in my tutorials. Best of all, I can include links to the videos in my books to better illustrate examples. On my website, you can either buy my books directly or you buy from Amazon. I earn affiliate commission from the Amazon links and some other affiliate schemes (but only for products I buy and use myself).

I won't bore you with more details of my "ecosystem" other than to say I'm always looking for ways for each element to feed the other elements. When I launch a book it goes in the newsletter and I have a single email announcement. I do Amazon advertising as well but only to maintain sales and all ads are profitable. I honestly believe the ecosystem idea and focusing on quality has made a big difference.

Reading through the thread (as much as I could because it's very long) there are lots of great promotional ideas but I don't think these sparks will ignite your business. What you need is more fuel before putting a spark to it. Your books aren't the fuel though, your customers are. Spend your time off thinking about how you could build a business ecosystem. How can you use this to give your customers more? How can you make contact with them and stay in contact? What are their expectations when they buy one of your books and how can you blow those expectations out of the water?

I could be very wrong but reading this thread it feels like you are focused on production (writing) and marketing the product. Sorry for the tough love and may not make me any friends but I can feel your pain and I don't want you to give up. Take time out yes but use it to think about how to come back stronger.

Good luck (unless you decide to give up).

This reflects something I stressed in The Great Rat Race Escape .

There are two elements to a successful Fastlane venture with scale and passive income potential -- the specialized unit and the business system. Too many people focus on the specialized unit (the books) and few time on the business system (your platform, lists, systems) so much so, they have no business system.

Publishing a book and throwing it on Amazon is not a business system. Placing a few ads for books you wrote is not a business system. This is how most new authors go about publishing with starry eyes and big dreams.

You've described your business system, which is working well. It also is a bit of a different game with you (and me) because we publish non-fiction. This forum, my lists, my YT channel, my social media outreach -- all part of the business system -- it helps me sell books, year after year after year.

Question is, how can we modify a non-fiction business system for fiction? Lists are great, but there has to be much, much more.
 
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Question is, how can we modify a non-fiction business system for fiction? Lists are great, but there has to be much, much more.

In fiction you have (some are shared with non-fiction):
  • book products (novels, short stories, etc.) - usually only sold through major retailers, can't really help it and sell directly because most readers won't buy anywhere else but through Amazon or a bookstore,
  • merchandise - you need very devoted fans to buy it,
  • selling foreign translations - first you need to be successful in the US to attract the attention of foreign buyers,
  • selling movie rights - you need to be extremely successful first,
  • selling other rights (games, plays, comic books, etc.) - same as above.
Other than that, everything else (like public speaking, teaching how to write, organizing live events, selling courses) is like a different career for your regular fiction writer.

Compared to non-fiction, you're extremely limited as a fiction writer.

Non-fiction is (primarily) selling education. Fiction is selling entertainment. I don't think they can be compared business-system-wise. It's sort of like a private university giving tips to a movie producer.

Also, I may be biased but even as a loyal fan of some fiction authors, why would I ever sign up for their newsletter and/or buy their random merchandise? All I care about is their next release. In comparison, with non-fiction authors I'm way more likely to see what else they have to offer so that I can learn more or maybe even hire them if they're available.
 

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Also, I may be biased but even as a loyal fan of some fiction authors, why would I ever sign up for their newsletter and/or buy their random merchandise? All I care about is their next release. In comparison, with non-fiction authors I'm way more likely to see what else they have to offer so that I can learn more or maybe even hire them if they're available.
Would you sign up for a fiction author newsletter if it means you had sneak previews of new releases? How about short stories that will never be released other than to subscribers through the newsletter? What about the chance to win a 30 minute "virtual coffee" with the author where they share ideas and perhaps even adopt some of yours for future books? Or perhaps even appear as a character in a future book?

I'm throwing ideas about here @MTF but I think there are possibilities. That said I've never written fiction and I don't read it either so I may not be talking sense.
 

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Would you sign up for a fiction author newsletter if it means you had sneak previews of new releases? How about short stories that will never be released other than to subscribers through the newsletter? What about the chance to win a 30 minute "virtual coffee" with the author where they share ideas and perhaps even adopt some of yours for future books? Or perhaps even appear as a character in a future book?

I'm throwing ideas about here @MTF but I think there are possibilities. That said I've never written fiction and I don't read it either so I may not be talking sense.

No to all of these questions.

I don't like reading previews because before the book goes out I'll have already forgotten what I read in the preview.

I very rarely read short stories and don't consider them interesting enough to bother unless I really love an author (even then, still unlikely).

Virtual coffee - no interest whatsoever. Sounds very groupie-like to me.

But then again, it's just me. I'm sure some people would be interested in it. But it will be way, way less percentage-wise than the number of people who, after reading a book, are interested in a course, coaching, etc.
 
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Lex DeVille

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No to all of these questions.

I don't like reading previews because before the book goes out I'll have already forgotten what I read in the preview.

I very rarely read short stories and don't consider them interesting enough to bother unless I really love an author (even then, still unlikely).

Virtual coffee - no interest whatsoever. Sounds very groupie-like to me.

But then again, it's just me. I'm sure some people would be interested in it. But it will be way, way less percentage-wise than the number of people who, after reading a book, are interested in a course, coaching, etc.

I think there is enormous room for authors to build their fiction into an immersive, ongoing storyline by email.

Start with something that will hook attention. Run ads to it. Get people to join for free. Give them 3-7 days of stories. Each day ends in a cliff-hanger that builds suspense for the next day just like soap operas do.

Release the stories at the same time every day so users get into a routine. Soon it becomes part of their daily ritual that they look forward at work.

You can monetize with a subscription model or by having some kind of in-story micro-purchases. For instance, pay a dollar to reveal the dark stranger Monica saw in the picture from her father's funeral.

This isn't revolutionary stuff.

It's basic email funnel marketing. Those who get in early will be the closest to the original story. Everyone else will go through an automated funnel because every piece you write becomes a new piece of automation.

Maybe give a choice to start at the beginning or just pick up at the most recent location (you can do that with soap operas too).

Thanks to tagging and custom fields, even if someone unsubscribes and comes back later, they won't have to start over at the beginning.

As it grows, it can expand out in many different directions with endless possibilities for product ideas that come straight out of your stories.
 

Andy Black

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I think there is enormous room for authors to build their fiction into an immersive, ongoing storyline by email.

Start with something that will hook attention. Run ads to it. Get people to join for free. Give them 3-7 days of stories. Each day ends in a cliff-hanger that builds suspense for the next day just like soap operas do.

Release the stories at the same time every day so users get into a routine. Soon it becomes part of their daily ritual that they look forward at work.

You can monetize with a subscription model or by having some kind of in-story micro-purchases. For instance, pay a dollar to reveal the dark stranger Monica saw in the picture from her father's funeral.

This isn't revolutionary stuff.

It's basic email funnel marketing. Those who get in early will be the closest to the original story. Everyone else will go through an automated funnel because every piece you write becomes a new piece of automation.

Maybe give a choice to start at the beginning or just pick up at the most recent location (you can do that with soap operas too).

Thanks to tagging and custom fields, even if someone unsubscribes and comes back later, they won't have to start over at the beginning.

As it grows, it can expand out in many different directions with endless possibilities for product ideas that come straight out of your stories.
I bet there’s fiction writers on Substack doing this, and well.
 

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Would you sign up for a fiction author newsletter if it means you had sneak previews of new releases? How about short stories that will never be released other than to subscribers through the newsletter? What about the chance to win a 30 minute "virtual coffee" with the author where they share ideas and perhaps even adopt some of yours for future books? Or perhaps even appear as a character in a future book?

I'm throwing ideas about here @MTF but I think there are possibilities. That said I've never written fiction and I don't read it either so I may not be talking sense.
As a writer I would love to have a virtual coffee with a successful author.
As a reader I just want to know, if there are new books out. I would always open a newsletter, if I knew it’s a notification of a new release of my favorite author.
(BTW I like everything you wrote on this forum :) )

@ChickenHawk thank you for this thread. It inspired a lot of people.
 
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ChickenHawk

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I buy new paperbacks often. Perhaps you could try shifting your business to the authoring of physical books, with excellent marketing in the form of attention grabbing/interesting book titles, and interesting cover artwork.
I get what you're saying, and thanks for the idea! But alas, distribution would be a huge problem. Book stores, in general, don't carry self-published books, which means I'd have to set up some sort of fulfillment system. Or, if you're referring to putting a higher emphasis on physical books on Amazon, the trend in my genre (romance) is away from physical books. I could try to buck the trend, but I don't think my kind of books are "keepers." They're the kind of books that women read once and go onto the next one, which probably explains why the vast majority of my sales are in ebook form. Also, a funny side note...I make nearly nothing per unit on paperbacks. Even now, I do it mostly as an image thing, as well as a courtesy to those very rare readers who still read physical books.

Would you consider taking your catalogue to a traditional publisher?
Thanks so much for the question! And the answer is a firm "Nope." Even if a publisher were willing to buy my backlist (which I doubt), I would never sell it (unless they offered me an obscene amount of money, LOL). And here's why. Once I sell my stories, they're incredibly hard to get back, and I lose nearly all of the control.

When self-publishing became a thing, authors who'd had traditional publishing deals were desperate to get their old stories back, especially for books that had gone out of print. There their books were, just languishing on the vine, unsupported by the publisher, and the authors couldn't self-publish them on Amazon. I'm not criticizing the publishers or the authors. I'm just pointing out that keeping control is almost always a nice thing. Twenty years ago, who knew that self-publishing would become such a huge venture? Maybe someday, there will be a new breakthrough. Maybe a new digital bookstore will give Amazon a run for its money. Or maybe some crazy new technology will emerge that breathes new life into the biz. If this ever happens, I want to own and control my own stories so I can profit from them. (I do believe that many of the aforementioned authors were able to get their rights back, but I'm not quite sure of the logistics or of how it all worked out.)

However, if I do finish my new trilogy, I'm debating approaching Amazon's publishing biz to see if they're interested. Even though I would be giving up control of the trilogy, Amazon gives lots of free visibility to books published under their own imprints. If successful, this could fuel new sales of my backlist, which I would still control. It's hard to say if Amazon would be interested or if I'll actually finish the trilogy, but it's something I've been mulling in the back of my mind. It could be an interesting mix of strategies.
 

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I get what you're saying, and thanks for the idea! But alas, distribution would be a huge problem. Book stores, in general, don't carry self-published books, which means I'd have to set up some sort of fulfillment system. Or, if you're referring to putting a higher emphasis on physical books on Amazon, the trend in my genre (romance) is away from physical books. I could try to buck the trend, but I don't think my kind of books are "keepers." They're the kind of books that women read once and go onto the next one, which probably explains why the vast majority of my sales are in ebook form. Also, a funny side note...I make nearly nothing per unit on paperbacks. Even now, I do it mostly as an image thing, as well as a courtesy to those very rare readers who still read physical books.


Thanks so much for the question! And the answer is a firm "Nope." Even if a publisher were willing to buy my backlist (which I doubt), I would never sell it (unless they offered me an obscene amount of money, LOL). And here's why. Once I sell my stories, they're incredibly hard to get back, and I lose nearly all of the control.

When self-publishing became a thing, authors who'd had traditional publishing deals were desperate to get their old stories back, especially for books that had gone out of print. There their books were, just languishing on the vine, unsupported by the publisher, and the authors couldn't self-publish them on Amazon. I'm not criticizing the publishers or the authors. I'm just pointing out that keeping control is almost always a nice thing. Twenty years ago, who knew that self-publishing would become such a huge venture? Maybe someday, there will be a new breakthrough. Maybe a new digital bookstore will give Amazon a run for its money. Or maybe some crazy new technology will emerge that breathes new life into the biz. If this ever happens, I want to own and control my own stories so I can profit from them. (I do believe that many of the aforementioned authors were able to get their rights back, but I'm not quite sure of the logistics or of how it all worked out.)

However, if I do finish my new trilogy, I'm debating approaching Amazon's publishing biz to see if they're interested. Even though I would be giving up control of the trilogy, Amazon gives lots of free visibility to books published under their own imprints. If successful, this could fuel new sales of my backlist, which I would still control. It's hard to say if Amazon would be interested or if I'll actually finish the trilogy, but it's something I've been mulling in the back of my mind. It could be an interesting mix of strategies.

I've seen a similar approach in the music industry - someone makes an album or two they release themselves and then approach a record label for future albums. The record label pours money into promoting the albums the record label controls... which inevitably leads to sales for the album(s) the artist controls...

The artist makes nothing on the record label albums, but they are effectively advertising for the artist controlled albums... which make megabucks.

Signing to a publisher might lose you control for the new books you sign, but if you think of it as investing in promotion materials for your back catalogue... it could be worth it.
 

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You'd think so, wouldn't you? Looking at it from the outside, it seems pretty incredible that I've come to this decision, but here are are some details that might shed light on it.

My mailing list has gotten smaller because I did some significant culling of non-responders/non-openers. About 6,000 people remain. According to MailCheat(Chimp):
6% engage "often."
24% engage "sometimes."
63% engage "rarely."

And the analysis by @MTF is pretty much spot-on. My books are priced at $3.99. The 70% commission of 3.99 is about $2.79. Even if all 6,000 people on my mailing list opened the email and purchased my book, I'd make about 17K per book from my list alone. However, as MTF said, most of my income comes from Kindle Unlimited, which means I make less than $2.79 per "purchase", even if the person reads the whole book, which many probably don't. Plus, only about 30% of my list are reasonably active, which further reduces the income.

Mailing lists in general have gotten tougher. I've heard rumblings from other authors that they're seeing the same thing -- low opens, low response rates, etc. It started maybe a couple of years ago, where mailing list responses dropped way off. Part of this might've stemmed from the fact that when the Amazon store was overrun with scammers, these "authors" were majorly spamming their lists, which included tons of romance readers. Also, I believe spam filters and other mechanisms that classify an email as "from a mailing list" are reducing the odds of readers seeing/opening the email. Some of this might also stem from the fact that romance readers have so many other ways to hear about new books -- Facebook ads, BookBub ads, Amazon ads, etc. This made mailing lists less important to readers, if not authors.
Have you considered an app? Engagement across the board is significantly higher for push marketing than for email. Opt-ins, 5% for email vs 55-80% for push marketing. Open rates 23% vs 90%, and click rates 3% vs 25-40%. Plus, it isn't saturated. Only about 1% of marketers in general are using it. It's still a novelty. My reasoning was even more basic. It's way easier to manage than a website.
 
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MTF

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@ChickenHawk how's that hiatus going for you?
Well this is embarrassing. I saw your question when you posed it and didn't have a good answer, so I kept putting off a reply for "a day or two." Now nearly a month has passed. I still don't have a great answer, but a reply is long overdue, so here it goes...

The Downsides: I'm still waffling on whether or not to jump back into self-publishing. When I began my hiatus last year, part of my logic was that between obscenely high advertising costs and diminishing author payouts, we'd see more authors drop out and move onto something else. If/when this happened, it could improve the situation for those who stay in the biz because there would be fewer books competing for Amazon ranks and advertising spots. Has this happened? Stupidly, I don't even know because I haven't yet done any research. I figured I'd take a good look at the beginning of the year, but I've been sick since New Year's, which hasn't helped my motivation.

In short, I've been a total slug on the Fastlane front. This is something completely foreign to me because even when I had a day job, I was always working on some side venture. Now, I've been working on nothing productive biz-wise. Even worse, I can hardly bring myself to care. But I need to do better. Over the next week or so, I'm going to complete that research and see where it leads.

But it's not all bad...

The Upside: In 2021, I lost nearly 20 pounds, transitioned to doing all of the housework so my husband could focus fulltime on his business, and spent more time with extended family than I have in years. When I was trying to put out three full-length novels a year, I didn't have the time to do such things. Between churning out the words and handling all the advertising, I barely had time to sleep. I always made time for my immediate family, but as far as anyone else, it was hit or miss at best. When I wrote out my goals for 2021, for the first time I included: "Have more fun with the people you care about." On that front, 2021 was a grand success. I look and feel better than I have in years.

Where it Stands Now: My husband and I have had a lot of long conversations about where we go from here. We both agree that we can't go back to how it was, with me chained to my desk nearly nonstop, but we're not sure where to go from here. Between the books and my day job, I've been the primary breadwinner for most of our marriage. This included supporting the household while my husband's contracting business got off the ground. Now, his business could probably support both of us, although not in the style to which I've become accustomed, LOL.

I know I need to do something, but I'm not quite sure what. I suspect that I will give self-publishing another go this year, if only because I've got one short novel drafted and another long novel nearly drafted. It seems a terrible waste to not do something with them, especially because putting out new material would surely boost the sales of my backlist and audiobooks.

But as far as timing or strategy, I need to get off my duff and just figure it out already. Stay tuned...
 

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The Downsides: I'm still waffling on whether or not to jump back into self-publishing. When I began my hiatus last year, part of my logic was that between obscenely high advertising costs and diminishing author payouts, we'd see more authors drop out and move onto something else. If/when this happened, it could improve the situation for those who stay in the biz because there would be fewer books competing for Amazon ranks and advertising spots. Has this happened? Stupidly, I don't even know because I haven't yet done any research. I figured I'd take a good look at the beginning of the year, but I've been sick since New Year's, which hasn't helped my motivation.

Well I'll be a downer but I think it's not going to change. If anything, it'll get even more difficult as more and more people will want to work remotely. This, plus even more experienced entrepreneurs entering the market and raising costs for everyone else (more and more Kindle businesses are being sold on EmpireFlippers).

The Upside: In 2021, I lost nearly 20 pounds, transitioned to doing all of the housework so my husband could focus fulltime on his business, and spent more time with extended family than I have in years. When I was trying to put out three full-length novels a year, I didn't have the time to do such things. Between churning out the words and handling all the advertising, I barely had time to sleep. I always made time for my immediate family, but as far as anyone else, it was hit or miss at best. When I wrote out my goals for 2021, for the first time I included: "Have more fun with the people you care about." On that front, 2021 was a grand success. I look and feel better than I have in years.

Very glad to hear that you could relax and rest and enjoy life more. It sounds exhausting just reading it how much you had to hustle for what these days is so little (compared to what you made several years ago).
 
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Andy Black

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Well this is embarrassing. I saw your question when you posed it and didn't have a good answer, so I kept putting off a reply for "a day or two." Now nearly a month has passed. I still don't have a great answer, but a reply is long overdue, so here it goes...

The Downsides: I'm still waffling on whether or not to jump back into self-publishing. When I began my hiatus last year, part of my logic was that between obscenely high advertising costs and diminishing author payouts, we'd see more authors drop out and move onto something else. If/when this happened, it could improve the situation for those who stay in the biz because there would be fewer books competing for Amazon ranks and advertising spots. Has this happened? Stupidly, I don't even know because I haven't yet done any research. I figured I'd take a good look at the beginning of the year, but I've been sick since New Year's, which hasn't helped my motivation.

In short, I've been a total slug on the Fastlane front. This is something completely foreign to me because even when I had a day job, I was always working on some side venture. Now, I've been working on nothing productive biz-wise. Even worse, I can hardly bring myself to care. But I need to do better. Over the next week or so, I'm going to complete that research and see where it leads.

But it's not all bad...

The Upside: In 2021, I lost nearly 20 pounds, transitioned to doing all of the housework so my husband could focus fulltime on his business, and spent more time with extended family than I have in years. When I was trying to put out three full-length novels a year, I didn't have the time to do such things. Between churning out the words and handling all the advertising, I barely had time to sleep. I always made time for my immediate family, but as far as anyone else, it was hit or miss at best. When I wrote out my goals for 2021, for the first time I included: "Have more fun with the people you care about." On that front, 2021 was a grand success. I look and feel better than I have in years.

Where it Stands Now: My husband and I have had a lot of long conversations about where we go from here. We both agree that we can't go back to how it was, with me chained to my desk nearly nonstop, but we're not sure where to go from here. Between the books and my day job, I've been the primary breadwinner for most of our marriage. This included supporting the household while my husband's contracting business got off the ground. Now, his business could probably support both of us, although not in the style to which I've become accustomed, LOL.

I know I need to do something, but I'm not quite sure what. I suspect that I will give self-publishing another go this year, if only because I've got one short novel drafted and another long novel nearly drafted. It seems a terrible waste to not do something with them, especially because putting out new material would surely boost the sales of my backlist and audiobooks.

But as far as timing or strategy, I need to get off my duff and just figure it out already. Stay tuned...
I’m delighted you pent more time with people that matter, and you lost 20 (!!!) pounds.

I can’t really comment on self-publishing. MJ seems to be doing alright. What could you (and @MTF?) learn from him?
 

ChickenHawk

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Well I'll be a downer but I think it's not going to change. If anything, it'll get even more difficult as more and more people will want to work remotely. This, plus even more experienced entrepreneurs entering the market and raising costs for everyone else (more and more Kindle businesses are being sold on EmpireFlippers).
I suspect you may be right. But on the flipside, interest in self-publishing seems to have gone down quite a bit. Even on this forum, self-publishing isn't attracting many new players. Of course, this might simply be because it's gotten so much harder to make money and smarter people have moved on, heh.

Here's a sad and funny tidbit. A friend of mine replied to an ad seeking erotica ghost-writers. Want to know what they were paying? A measly 15 bucks per thousand words. To put it in perspective, this is $1,200 for an 80K-word novel. This might explain why poorly written books with slick sexy covers dominate so many Amazon categories. Money chasers can pay ghost-writers a pittance, add some editing and a slick cover, spend gobs of money on advertising, and let a rapid-release strategy do the rest. It would be pathetic if it weren't generating so much success.

I’m delighted you spent more time with people that matter, and you lost 20 (!!!) pounds.

I can’t really comment on self-publishing. MJ seems to be doing alright. What could you (and @MTF?) learn from him?

Thanks so much!!! About MJ, he's a legend, and I've already learned so much from him. The challenge for me, I think, is that my books are genre fiction, which has a naturally shorter shelf life, especially with the way Amazon algos are playing out.

If I continue to pursue self-publishing, I'd love to change genres or even move into non-fiction. The thing that makes me pause is the realization that if I do that, I'll be giving up passive income related to my older romance titles. It takes new releases to keep those older titles selling, and I think it would be incredibly difficult to start fresh with no backlist to help justify advertising expenses. My odds of LOSING money on a book release would go up exponentially, which is a pretty sobering prospect.

It's quite a catch-22. My current genre has gotten way too crowded, but a new genre means giving up the benefits of an established pen name and backlist. What to do, what to do...
 

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If I continue to pursue self-publishing, I'd love to change genres or even move into non-fiction. The thing that makes me pause is the realization that if I do that, I'll be giving up passive income related to my older romance titles. It takes new releases to keep those older titles selling, and I think it would be incredibly difficult to start fresh with no backlist to help justify advertising expenses. My odds of LOSING money on a book release would go up exponentially, which is a pretty sobering prospect.

I tried a new non-fiction pen name. Spent about $10k-15 on making sure the book was the best it could be (various editors, beta readers, market research) and on marketing (including lots of money spent on NetGalley, ads when launching, etc.).

I don't think I even made $1k back.

Granted, the topic was maybe too niche. Still, so depressing and such a giant waste of time (it took me months of work) I don't want to repeat that. I think that these days it's very hard to launch a book without an audience you've cultivated for years.
 
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I tried a new non-fiction pen name. Spent about $10k-15 on making sure the book was the best it could be (various editors, beta readers, market research) and on marketing (including lots of money spent on NetGalley, ads when launching, etc.). I don't think I even made $1k back.

Man that's sobering. And even though scenarios like this are probably becoming more common, it's still tough when it happens. And it's sooooo hard to want to get back on the horse again afterward. Ugh.

I think that these days it's very hard to launch a book without an audience you've cultivated for years.
I wish I could disagree. On a similar note, it's become very hard to profit from a new release without having a bunch of older titles under the same pen name. When launching a new book, I've had lots of days where the new book actually loses money (due to advertising expenses), but I still make money overall because these new fans go on to read my older books.

That's part of the reason it's hard for me to walk away or change genres. The backlist -- it's a big advantage.
 

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I suspect you may be right. But on the flipside, interest in self-publishing seems to have gone down quite a bit. Even on this forum, self-publishing isn't attracting many new players. Of course, this might simply be because it's gotten so much harder to make money and smarter people have moved on, heh.

Here's a sad and funny tidbit. A friend of mine replied to an ad seeking erotica ghost-writers. Want to know what they were paying? A measly 15 bucks per thousand words. To put it in perspective, this is $1,200 for an 80K-word novel. This might explain why poorly written books with slick sexy covers dominate so many Amazon categories. Money chasers can pay ghost-writers a pittance, add some editing and a slick cover, spend gobs of money on advertising, and let a rapid-release strategy do the rest. It would be pathetic if it weren't generating so much success.



Thanks so much!!! About MJ, he's a legend, and I've already learned so much from him. The challenge for me, I think, is that my books are genre fiction, which has a naturally shorter shelf life, especially with the way Amazon algos are playing out.

If I continue to pursue self-publishing, I'd love to change genres or even move into non-fiction. The thing that makes me pause is the realization that if I do that, I'll be giving up passive income related to my older romance titles. It takes new releases to keep those older titles selling, and I think it would be incredibly difficult to start fresh with no backlist to help justify advertising expenses. My odds of LOSING money on a book release would go up exponentially, which is a pretty sobering prospect.

It's quite a catch-22. My current genre has gotten way too crowded, but a new genre means giving up the benefits of an established pen name and backlist. What to do, what to do...
Can you move genres slowly and take your pen name and backlist with you?

What sort of non-fiction would you do?
 

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Can you move genres slowly and take your pen name and backlist with you?

What sort of non-fiction would you do?
These are excellent questions. I've considered what genres I might be able to ease into under the same pen name but haven't come up with anything, partly because I've been so out of touch for months now. Who knows? Maybe poking around on Amazon will leader me to a romance-related category I haven't yet considered. Crossing fingers!

About non-fiction, I have no idea. (Sad but true). I just know that writing non-fiction might be a nice change, especially compared to writing sex scenes, which I've come to DREAD writing. In my romance books, I include two sex scenes per novel. This might seem like a lot, but it's less than in most books in my genre. I've come to loathe writing them, so much so that I write the sex chapters at the very end, when I have no choice but to finish them or else.

When I started out, books with explicit content were all the rage, so I followed suit. But I've got to admit, I'm really tired of thinking of new ways to make sex scenes seem fresh and exciting when I've written so many before. I once read a romance novel where the leading man surprised his lady-love with a stage set where he dressed as a monster and chased her down as a damsel in distress. At the time, I thought, "What the hell???!!!" Now I realize why this happens. Writers get so desperate to keep sex scenes fresh that it can quickly turn ridiculous. I fear I'm almost there. LOL.
 
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When I started out, books with explicit content were all the rage, so I followed suit. But I've got to admit, I'm really tired of thinking of new ways to make sex scenes seem fresh and exciting when I've written so many before. I once read a romance novel where the leading man surprised his lady-love with a stage set where he dressed as a monster and chased her down as a damsel in distress. At the time, I thought, "What the hell???!!!" Now I realize why this happens. Writers get so desperate to keep sex scenes fresh that it can quickly turn ridiculous. I fear I'm almost there. LOL.
That's one of the things that moved me out of contemporary romance, before a year of bad personal challenges took me out altogether. I've gotten to the point that I won't even read those scenes in other people's books. And if the readers are skipping them (I know I'm not alone) why bother to write them?

...writing sex scenes, which I've come to DREAD writing. In my romance books, I include two sex scenes per novel. This might seem like a lot, but it's less than in most books in my genre. I've come to loathe writing them, so much so that I write the sex chapters at the very end, when I have no choice but to finish them or else.
This made me laugh out loud. A mutual friend of ours used to do that, when he was still writing bear-shifter stories. He had me edit one after finishing the rest of the story and before he'd written the sex scenes. I'm scrolling along on my computer, the sexual tension in the story is ramping up, and all of a sudden, the next thing I see is a nature picture - two bears getting it on in a meadow. I almost fell out of my chair laughing.

It pains me to read of your dilemma. I hope you find the answer that's best for you.
 

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So this is what we talked about with @ChickenHawk on the inside... The trash that Amazon has turned into these days.

I was looking for non-fiction bestsellers written by people practicing extreme sports. Here are the current bestsellers for it:

am50.png

If you don't see it well, I marked in red erotic trash that shouldn't be there just from top30:

am30.png

WTF does a "sexy dirty cowboy" have to do with extreme sports non-fiction?

Out of top30, TWENTY books have NOTHING AT ALL to do with extreme sports non-fiction as they're all trashy erotic novels. The one about resistance bands is also miscategorized but at least it's non-fiction. Same with double-listed "Breath" (what's the relationship with extreme sports?). In the end, out of top30 books, you only have 6 that should be there.

This is just complete and utter trash. How is this not being taken care of is beyond me. Amazon is by far the largest book seller in the world, yet there are countless categories with the same crap. How can you even treat it seriously?

Imagine writing a solid, well-researched book on extreme sports and being unable to rank anywhere in top30 because the results are taken by trashy erotic bullshit novels, most probably written for $50 by cheap ghostwriters.

As a reader, how am I supposed to use this list? Does Amazon think that everyone is so into erotic trash that they'd rather grab another volume of a "sexy dirty cowboy" novel than pick a book they were actually interested in?

This is why I believe that until Amazon recognizes and removes all the trash from its bestselling lists, honest authors are plain and simple F*cked.
 

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Voice Angel

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OMG this is so true and so bad!!!

When I was categorizing my novel, I discovered that one of my main categories was taken over by paranormal fantasy novels. None of then had ANYTHING to do with the category. And mine, which was legit and should be there, was overridden by these books.
 
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OMG this is so true and so bad!!!

When I was categorizing my novel, I discovered that one of my main categories was taken over by paranormal fantasy novels. None of then had ANYTHING to do with the category. And mine, which was legit and should be there, was overridden by these books.

This is even worse in fiction. Honest sci-fi/fantasy authors for example have no chance against three-penis-wielding alien romance and/or mutant werewolf-caribou time travel erotica. This trash is everywhere, invading every category it can and pushing out everyone else.

But I find it even more annoying in non-fiction where it's so clear to see that a book should not be categorized there. I don't get why Amazon even lets people choose one category in fiction and another in non-fiction.
 

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IMO, one reason Amazon doesn't clean up its categories is because those trashy erotica novels spend a ton of money on Amazon advertising. Within the last few years, Amazon has gone from making money off books to making money off the PROMOTION of books. It's a terrible conflict of interest. If Amazon, for example, bans these books for engaging in deceptive practices, Amazon will lose advertising revenue. The whole situation encourages fraud and abuse.

And speaking of Amazon advertising, this past weekend, I added a laptop stand to my Amazon cart. While I was adding the lapstop stand, a window popped up asking me to check out these "sponsored products". One of the sponsored products was a cheaper laptop stand. I thought, "What the hell?" So here, some Amazon seller has all but gotten the sale, and Amazon does something to encourage the buyer to ditch the original product in favor of another.

I know we tend libertarian on this board, but these sort of unethical business practices really need some reining in. Unfortunately, the big tech companies have become too powerful for anyone to rein in, including our useless and increasingly corrupt government.
 

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But on the flipside, interest in self-publishing seems to have gone down quite a bit.

I've been here nearly 15 years. Things circle a "bandwagon" with money chasers every few years... something is always hot, something not. It's like night clubs... the hot night club is new, the one that was hot 3 years ago is dying...

Decades ago it was blogging (look at posts from 2008-2010)...
Years ago it was self-publishing back when "so and so self-publisher made $100K last month" hit the news...
Today it is crypto...

It's the same cycle, repeated over and over...
 
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So here, some Amazon seller has all but gotten the sale, and Amazon does something to encourage the buyer to ditch the original product in favor of another.
Probably Amazon's own product. They are well known to hold successful product owners to ransom, (demanding their source, freezing their product pages until compliance) then a few weeks later coming out with their own product and writing exclusivity contracts with your source so you can no longer buy product to sell on.

The new thing that seems to be occurring with books, both fiction and nonfiction, is people using bots / purchased Amazon accounts to fraudulently report their competitors books for sloppy formatting and editing. When this happens, Amazon's AI will freeze sales, without actually checking the content. The only way around it is manual intervention (good luck with that if you don't have an Amazon rep) or to significantly edit the book so it appears different to the AI. But of course if your book is already well written, edited, formatted and proofread...you would have to decrease it's quality to change it. Which means more $$$ to the competition who fraudulently reported it. This is what happens when you get internet marketers breaking into niches they have no interest in other than $$$, and when the barrier to entry is so low that illiterate people can self publish books.

There's books I want to buy from Amazon that I can't because of this issue because sales are frozen.
 
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MTF

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@ChickenHawk long shot as you haven't posted in a long time but how are things going?
 

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