Vaccines Required to Fly - The Beginning of More Intensive Government Control

[Thoelt53]

Why can't people just accept the fact and move on with their lives? You're living "under contract" in whatever country you're in.

There's no "shame" in getting a vaccine and if you believe all the "Bill Gates is trying to inject a chip into us" BS, you have way bigger problems than C0VlD-19.

If you had a contagious disease, and the vaccine was out, there's no way in hell I would let you into my business without proof of vaccination. We know the disease kills (mortality rate is irrelevant, IT KILLS) and by you trying to act like a big shot, you're risking lives of others and that's just selfish.

Now I'm sure some people will come back and say "car accidents kill", well yeah, that's why there's driving tests, PROOF you can drive and understand basic rules.

Just MOVE ON.

If your business was shut down via diktat, you would be singing a different tune.

But because it didn’t affect you, it’s nothing.

Then they came for the ecommerce owners. And there was no one left to stand up.

 

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[Kal-El1998]

Also, the last I checked, everyone I see in government (especially federal) is a complete moron. You guys that think this is some elaborate plan for control really think highly of the intelligence of our "leaders."

That's cute, you think the puppet politicians are the real leaders.

 

[Kal-El1998]

There are certainly some naive people on this thread. Theres a thin line here between acting in public safety, and potentially alienating people from "polite society"

It's not the vaccine it self that I would argue here, its the precedent it's setting. It's getting people used to having the government and private enterprise to essentially force you to do things.

YES, I understand we have mandatory vaccines. YES I understand that you need vaccines in order to go to public school, And I have all of my vaccines. I am not antivax. And I'm glad we have modern medicine and vaccines. Polio, yellow fever, and measles sound extremely shitty.

But there is no argument this COVID vaccine was rushed, and created in 1/10th of the time it usually takes to create a vaccine. I would worry what steps they had to leave out in order to get a vaccine to market in 1 year instead of 10.

Those who are quick to say "JuSt MoVE On AnD AcCePt IT BrO" are playing a dangerous game. Again it's the precedent that's being set. You keep giving an inch, and each time you say "Just do it, what's the big deal."

It's people saying "Well, You don't HAVE to get a vaccine, BUT you just cant travel, go to concerts or public events, have a bank account, enter a business or get a job. This sets the precedent of social outcasts, who are essentially banned from polite society because they do not conform to government edicts.



No the mortality rate is absolutely relevant. We risk driving because it is EXTREMELY likely that we make it to our destination alive. There is a risk of getting into a fatal accident. We risk our lives each year during flu season, because it's overwhelmingly likely that you will survive the flu. It's not a black and white "Does it kill or does it not."

This type of "It kills a very small percentage of people, so we must fundamentally change the rules of society" thinking is exactly the problem we've been dealing with for nearly a year now. This also removes personally responsibility from the equation, Because you assume that others can't perform a risk analysis for them selves, and decide if they want to take the risk of getting sick.

We would save lives if we lowered all speed limits to 20mph. So why don't we do that to save lives? Because we choose convenience as a society. We do not bring our selves down to the lowest common denominator. We don't change the rules for everyone because YOU'RE afraid of the small risk of death. You choose for YOU to not drive, You don't choose for ME not to drive.

Am I a tinfoil hat, Alex Jones conspiracy theorist? Absolutely not, I look at this situation through the lens of logic and the understanding of human nature. Throughout history governments (aka groups of human beings) have become corrupt, damn near with out exception as far as I understand. If you think the governments of the world are benevolent and competent, and also care about you, I have a bridge to sell you. And peoples LACK of concern about a governing body telling you you HAVE to put this thing in your body that we rushed to create in 1/10th of the time we normally do, or else you can't join us in society, Is worrying.

I mostly agree with you 404. I don't think there are lizard people pulling the strings on some grand scripted conspiracy, I think this is just the latest version of human nature playing out. We have not fundamentally changed in thousands of years, What makes anyone think we're different than our ancestors, as far as our human instincts?

Sure we have iPhones and modern medicine, but our human nature is the same as the Romans and Egyptians. And I think people are RIGHT to question authority.

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[Matt Sun]

Because its basic social contract sort of stuff?

Drive a car? Licence

Own property? Taxes for the local community

Y'all read too many "very smart" blogs and watch too much damn youtube.

Its messenger rna in a lipid bilayer for delivery.

If you've had any of your childhood vaccines you've had attenuated virus (mmr for instance) meaning bits of viral DNA and the nucleic capsid injected in you.

If you've never had any vaccine you've also had both viral dna and messenger rna inside of you just from fighting off infections. If anything using just the messenger rna of the spike protein is a more targeted approach , in fact , we just rolled out a cold virus vaccine in 9 months , this is like a moon landing for virology and public health , we should have a ticker tape parade.

But i'm sure enough people will avoid the vaccine because "some blogger / random guy on youtube said big words" that i'm gonna still need to wear a mask this time next year , thanks a lot! Lol

Whats the conspiracy? All the phd's and md's studying viruses the world over are under the thrall of an evil NWO cabal and every other human being eduxated in basic biology and health science is in on it?

Heres jonas salk , the nefarious villain who specifically didn't patent the polio vaccine or make a penny from it , that humanitarian monster! , he is truly the godfather of this entire evil scheme to prevent deaths in a simple and empirically founded way!

Ever hear of norman borlaug? The sinister fellow fathered rhe green revolution and used *gasp* science to prevent untold millions from starving! Damn you scientific method! Damn you to hell!!!

Or the more rational take that "injections are a weird scary thing" and it gives people an ego boost to pretend to be "in the know" by following conspiracy theories? (Which btw are , AGAIN being touted by facebook memes and random nobody conspiracy bloggers and youtubers) , what exactly has alex jones done for mankind that has earned him.our trust and admiration? Does alex jones have security clearance thats given him special lnowledge? An iq of 280 and 6 phd's? Nah? Just some schmuck who capitalized on 9/11 using public access?

So why exactly are random strangers on the internet spinning yarns a good solid source of actionable life advise? , maybe i'm in the wrong business , I should just start a youtube or a podcast and make completely baseless claims and then sell overpriced supplements!

You have a supercomputer in your pocket and we derive energy from nuclear fission but god damn if you're going to take part in The medical miracle of vaccines!

Heres reality
Here , more objective reality , actual things

Seriously take a biology 101 class and get it together , the governments "focring" you to get the vaccine to fly? , you know f*cking defying gravity in a giant metal tube (but thats not also science right?) Isn't a "right" , like other human beings exist and would sort of like the virus to not keep spreading and infecting people?

It's always such a bizarre thing for me to be on these entrepreneur forums.and see the most basic unreflecrive ayn rand take on libertarianism from people.

Not a personal attack btw 404 I just think you're premise is way way off.

Vaccine as a proxy to control us? , we have a gps enabled device in our pocket with a camera and a mic that we use to record and share our most personal intimate details on the internet.

If the government wants to start black bagging folks in the middle of the night they won't need some "sneaky" public health measure to do it.

C'mon people use a little critical thinking for a second.

Thank you for this post, I'm confident big pharma loves us. They do what's best for us. We should have that virology parade and celebrate the billions they are going to make selling goverment the vaccine to cure all this fear mongering. Plus the cdc doesn't say Covid has 99.9% survival rate for minus 50 years old, does it ?
I will gladly have the experimental shot, wich they don't tell me the exact ingredients and did very well make sure I can't sue if i'm harmed. And yet many goverments want this experimental shot to be "mandatory". So that sounds safe.

 

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[Kak]

Obedience is not a virtue.

 

[Thoelt53]

Obedience is not a virtue.

View attachment 36167

That can’t happen here.

 

[MoneyDoc]

If your business was shut down via diktat, you would be singing a different tune.

But because it didn’t affect you, it’s nothing.

Then they came for the ecommerce owners. And there was no one left to stand up.

What are you talking about? How do you know I wasn’t affected? E-commerce runs on the strength of the economy. The beginning of this year was the worst months for my businesses. Yes it picked up and did extremely well to close the year, but it’s unfair for you to say it didn’t affect me. I had to take a $40k GOVERNMENT loan to help. By the way, I know restaurants that had more sales with delivery than they had with dine-in. So your point is invalid. Also, a lot of CEOs got more wealthy post-pandemic, then they were pre-pandemic. You could say, “well I’m talking about the employees that suffered.” Well, that’s life.

 

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[MoneyDoc]

Thank you for this post, I'm confident big pharma loves us. They do what's best for us. We should have that virology parade and celebrate the billions they are going to make selling goverment the vaccine to cure all this fear mongering. Plus the cdc doesn't say Covid has 99.9% survival rate for minus 50 years old, does it ?
I will gladly have the experimental shot, wich they don't tell me the exact ingredients and did very well make sure I can't sue if i'm harmed. And yet many goverments want this experimental shot to be "mandatory". So that sounds safe.

So many logical fallacies here.

You do know government is taking shots too, right? Please don’t tell me they’re getting sugar shots, I beg you.

 

[Kal-El1998]

So many logical fallacies here.

You do know government is taking shots too, right? Please don’t tell me they’re getting sugar shots, I beg you.

Please don't tell me you believe main stream media, I beg you.

 

[Thoelt53]

What are you talking about? How do you know I wasn’t affected? E-commerce runs on the strength of the economy. The beginning of this year was the worst months for my businesses. Yes it picked up and did extremely well to close the year, but it’s unfair for you to say it didn’t affect me. I had to take a $40k GOVERNMENT loan to help. By the way, I know restaurants that had more sales with delivery than they had with dine-in. So your point is invalid. Also, a lot of CEOs got more wealthy post-pandemic, then they were pre-pandemic. You could say, “well I’m talking about the employees that suffered.” Well, that’s life.

I said businesses that were shutdown. It’s a real thing.

Ya’know, business owners and their employees without an income and all that.

40% of restaurants are GONE. Many of them were successful and decades old. Good for the ones that pivoted, and you can say that’s life, but it’s not. Had the government not over stepped its bounds, most of those restaurants would still be chugging away.

All for a virus with a 99.98% survival rate. Seems legit. You’re projecting free market thought onto something that is far from a free market.

Free market is dead when the government can simply close your business with zero wrongdoing on your part.

 

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[MoneyDoc]

Please don't tell me you believe main stream media, I beg you.

Okay, I’m out. Not that mainstream media is not fake, but I know exactly what you’re saying and it’s quite astonishing.

 

[MoneyDoc]

I said businesses that were shutdown. It’s a real thing.

Ya’know, business owners and their employees without an income and all that.

40% of restaurants are GONE. Many of them were successful and decades old. Good for the ones that pivoted, and you can say that’s life, but it’s not. Had the government not over stepped its bounds, most of those restaurants would still be chugging away.

All for a virus with a 99.98% survival rate. Seems legit. You’re projecting free market thought onto something that is far from a free market.

Free market is dead when the government can simply close your business with zero wrongdoing on your part.

You think the same number of people would be visiting restaurants as pre-pandemic? “Well they would’ve still been better off”. Actually, if you look at the margins in the restaurant business, they break even at certain number of customers, then they profit. Say 60% of people still visited restaurants, they would still barely get by.

Anyways just wanted to make some points. Wasn’t really intending to debate with anyone.

Enjoy your New Years!

 

[Thoelt53]

You think the same number of people would be visiting restaurants as pre-pandemic? “Well they would’ve still been better off”. Actually, if you look at the margins in the restaurant business, they break even at certain number of customers, then they profit. Say 60% of people still visited restaurants, they would still barely get by.

This is semantical at this point. No doubt restaurants would and have lost business. Would they have necessarily gone out of business if it were not for government edict? Probably not for many.

So you lost business because of government edict. Was it worth it? Are you any safer? Are your employees any safer? Or just poorer?

The conspiracy behind this isn’t to microchip people, it is to drive them out of the middle class and into poverty. To get them dependent on the government for a paycheck. To be obedient.

The goal is to crush small business, as it’s the backbone of the economy. Crush capitalism, then institute communism.

History repeats. If you think I’m crazy, you just haven’t read enough of the past. There is nothing new under the sun. What has been will become again. Unfortunately the masses are stupid.

 

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[MoneyDoc]

This is semantical at this point. No doubt restaurants would and have lost business. Would they have necessarily gone out of business if it were not for government edict? Probably not for many.

So you lost business because of government edict. Was it worth it? Are you any safer? Are your employees any safer? Or just poorer?

The conspiracy behind this isn’t to microchip people, it is to drive them out of the middle class and into poverty. To get them dependent on the government for a paycheck. To be obedient.

The goal is to crush small business, as it’s the backbone of the economy. Crush capitalism, then institute communism.

History repeats. If you think I’m crazy, you just haven’t read enough of the past. There is nothing new under the sun. What has been will become again. Unfortunately the masses are stupid.

You’ve completely misunderstood my posts. I am NOT pro-government or pro-“follow the crowd” or a sheep. I’m quite the opposite and from my posts on this forum relating to subjects like these, you should be able to tell. However, all I’m saying is what else can you do? If history repeats itself and you’re certain it will, then it makes no difference does it? Capitalism will be gone and communism will prevail as you just put forth. You cannot change the mindset of the masses, and I do agree with you that the majority of people are indeed sheep.

 

[Thoelt53]

You’ve completely misunderstood my posts. I am NOT pro-government or pro-“follow the crowd” or a sheep. I’m quite the opposite and from my posts on this forum relating to subjects like these, you should be able to tell. However, all I’m saying is what else can you do? If history repeats itself and you’re certain it will, then it makes no difference does it? Capitalism will be gone and communism will prevail as you just put forth. You cannot change the mindset of the masses, and I do agree with you that the majority of people are indeed sheep.

I didn’t misunderstand you.

If communism prevails, what becomes of your business? Your life? Your children’s lives?

Bend over and take it up the a$$? Like the vaccine?

 

[MoneyDoc]

I didn’t misunderstand you. Albeit I found your tone in this thread inconclusive with the rest of your posts.

If communism prevails, what becomes of your business? Your life? Your children’s lives?

How are you going to stop it if you’ve already assumed this is a case that history will repeat itself?

I haven’t assumed that position.

 

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[Kal-El1998]

How are you going to stop it if you’ve already assumed this is a case that history will repeat itself?

I haven’t assumed that position.

It will only happen if people stand by and say "oh well"

As people, we are supposed to have control of our government, not the other way around.

At very least we can fight it to the best of our ability that way 20 years from now when the kids and grandkids ask what happened, you can say you at least gave it your best shot to fight for freedom.

I have no intention of going out quietly personally.

I refuse to wear a muzzle, and I refuse to obey rules and laws that are anti-freedom. We have an obligation as free willed individuals to reject it all.

We have two different roads in front of us...

Peacefully surrender to communism and transition to a generation of oppression

or

Fighting back against tyranny like the beginning of our country.

 

[Matt Sun]

So many logical fallacies here.

You do know government is taking shots too, right? Please don’t tell me they’re getting sugar shots, I beg you.

...

 

[AFMKelvin]

I thought we just called that capitalism. Isn't that the argument where we get to pick and choose our customers?

Sure but it won't only be businesses doing this, later it will be government agencies.

Why can't people just accept the fact and move on with their lives? You're living "under contract" in whatever country you're in.

So just throw your hands in the air and give up? You know America would've never been a country if the founding fathers did what you're telling people to do. How about you stand up for yourself for once?

Nobody is telling you NOT to question authority

Don’t take my point the wrong way, I’m not one of those “close your eyes, and take in everything”. There has to be a point where you just move on because your “questioning” is making no difference.

How can you contradict yourself so often. You're saying nobody is telling you not to question authority yet you have told people here not to question authority multiple times.

"accept the fact and move on", "move on because your "questioning" is making no difference"

If your business was shut down via diktat, you would be singing a different tune.

But because it didn’t affect you, it’s nothing.

Then they came for the ecommerce owners. And there was no one left to stand up.

Exactly this. People defending this lock downs and vaccines are ignorant to the fact of all the businesses that went under during this "pandemic." Many people lost their businesses because they couldn't comply with the new "safety standards." They obviously don't care because their online businesses went up during the pandemic. But the next virus the package you're sending your customer might be a source of contamination and boom your business is now declared a public threat.

You’ve completely misunderstood my posts. I am NOT pro-government or pro-“follow the crowd” or a sheep. I’m quite the opposite and from my posts on this forum relating to subjects like these, you should be able to tell. However, all I’m saying is what else can you do? If history repeats itself and you’re certain it will, then it makes no difference does it? Capitalism will be gone and communism will prevail as you just put forth. You cannot change the mindset of the masses, and I do agree with you that the majority of people are indeed sheep.

You're such a sheep that you can't see how much you contradict yourself. On one hand you say "I am NOT pro-government or pro-"follow the crowd or a sheep" then you say "you cannot change the mindset of the masses" so you keep walking silently to the slaughter house because after all "oh well they won't listen to me anyways" like all the other sheep are thinking.

 

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[Xeon]

The folks who believe in the vaccine as some sort of conspiracy theory, or as a result of "evil governments oppressing the people of God and taking away our oh-so-holy-freedom" are the same ones who'll tell you that "C0VlD-19 is a hoax". The same types who think wearing masks is BS.

 

[AFMKelvin]

The folks who believe in the vaccine as some sort of conspiracy theory, or as a result of "evil governments oppressing the people of God and taking away our oh-so-holy-freedom" are the same ones who'll tell you that "C0VlD-19 is a hoax". The same types who think wearing masks is BS.

Yes free man all think that. What's your point?

Also yes, freedom is our right protected by the highest law of the land and by our very existence.

But I guess slaves wouldn't know that.

 

[MoneyDoc]

My mistake. So if some government officials "take it" then is not experimental at all. We don't need 5 or 10 years of studies like with all vaccines until 2019. We just needed govt officials to take it and then we know it's safe ! How silly we where all those years.

That wasn’t my point. I was proving a different point to him. But okay.

 

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[MoneyDoc]

Sure but it won't only be businesses doing this, later it will be government agencies.



So just throw your hands in the air and give up? You know America would've never been a country if the founding fathers did what you're telling people to do. How about you stand up for yourself for once?



How can you contradict yourself so often. You're saying nobody is telling you not to question authority yet you have told people here not to question authority multiple times.

"accept the fact and move on", "move on because your "questioning" is making no difference"

Exactly this. People defending this lock downs and vaccines are ignorant to the fact of all the businesses that went under during this "pandemic." Many people lost their businesses because they couldn't comply with the new "safety standards." They obviously don't care because their online businesses went up during the pandemic. But the next virus the package you're sending your customer might be a source of contamination and boom your business is now declared a public threat.


You're such a sheep that you can't see how much you contradict yourself. On one hand you say "I am NOT pro-government or pro-"follow the crowd or a sheep" then you say "you cannot change the mindset of the masses" so you keep walking silently to the slaughter house because after all "oh well they won't listen to me anyways" like all the other sheep are thinking.

I was assuming his points to be true. You haven’t understood my post either. So please don’t call me a sheep when you’re blindly following conspiracy theorists. Don’t try the “gotcha” moment.

Anyways, you guys have fun coming up with new theories. I’ll go have fun searching for development land. C ya.

 

[AFMKelvin]

So please don’t call me a sheep when you’re blindly following conspiracy theorists.

The irony is lost on you.

 

[GoodluckChuck]

The level of coordination I've witnessed across media's, politicians, and corporations across the world this year is what alarms me most. It blows my mind that so many sources of information parrot the exact same messages at the exact same times. This is a red flag that can't go ignored. What are these messages? They should be scrutinized intensely, not accepted wholesale.

"A New Normal"
"Build Back Better"
"A Great Reset"

I think it's completely rational to be uncomfortable with the speed at which individual liberties are going out the window never to be seen again in our lifetimes.

 

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[EvanOkanagan]

 

[JordanK]

I don't know what the hell is going on

 

[Jon L]

I don't know what the hell is going on

In this thread, in particular, I don't either. Good lord. Some of you on this thread need to learn how to be more respectful in how you say things

My thought on all of this is that vaccine requirements are a symptom of a much larger problem. Getting mad about this particular symptom, while cathartic, doesn't do much.

The problem is everywhere: curtailment of free speech on campuses, thought police in social media, elevation of certain races above others, government that thinks its a good thing to record everything we say and do, etc etc etc. It starts in school, and goes from there.

Our latest generation doesn't think that a republic is a good thing: pure democracy is better. They don't believe in free speech, only freedom to say what they agree with. They think that being white makes you a racist (oh, the irony).

They believe this crap because that's how they're being taught in school. They're taught what to think, not how to think.

I pick education because I have two kids in public school, so it is top of mind. You could easily focus your attention just about anywhere else in our society, though.

Kak's picture above can most certainly happen right here in the US. Not today, but give the wrong leader 30 years, and they can make this country do just about anything they want. That was about how long it took in Germany. "Oh but Germany had the seeds of the Holocaust for generations." I agree. Our 'holocaust' would look different, and would come from whatever seeds were planted here in generations past. It would be just as horrible, though. Germans of 1940 and Americans of today are built with the same human nature. Nothing separates us but our beliefs, and those can change, rapidly.

 

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[Matt Sun]

Sorry if i was too sarcastic. I just don't wish any of you good entrepreneurs guys or your family's injected with some DNA altering stuff that hasn't really been tested in the long term and that is a fact. Nobody knows what this will do to you in 2, 5 or 10 years.
The Nuremberg statutes declare that you can't be forced to get any medical treatment that you don't consent. So there is that.
Also, I wonder what would happen to the amish and other populations who don't vaccinate ? They will be banned from moving around the world ? That is some serious human rights violation.
Have a great 2021 everyone.

 

[c4n]

By the way, Israel already vaxinated 1,000,000 people, more than 10% of the population (1st dose):

Israel zooms past 1 million vaccinations in sprint to vanquish pandemic - The Times of Israel

Netanyahu announces milestone during visit to immunization center in Umm al-Fahm; country far outpaces rest of world, with more than 10% of population now having received 1st dose

www.timesofisrael.com

Will be interesting to watch how they do in a few months compared to the rest of the world.

Note that they will need to pause for two weeks in January because of a shortage of injections (syringes). Maybe this will be a bottleneck when countries around the world try to vaccinate the general population?