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The Toxic World of Self-Help (Video)

peterb0yd

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This guy nailed it.

Also, an individual on this site gets a shout-out!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmLTLkCBSN8


This is for anyone that is going through the early self-help stages.

I feel like the stages of self-help are:

1. Consume & Do Nothing
2. Consume & Action Fake
3. Consume & Reflect
4. Real Action & Learn Exponentially

I feel like most people get caught in Step 2 because they never take a step back, stop consuming mindlessly, and reflect on a better path for themselves. This was monumental for me. I realized that I had been doing all this action faking for years and still getting no where.

That was probably my biggest "F this" moment. Following the paths laid out by gurus for YEARS and still hating life. Not ideal. Luckily I got out of the endless cycle and didn't drop thousands on self-help seminars, though I did get pretty close a few times.
 
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MJ DeMarco

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Very nicely done, I noticed my book on his couch but I didn't expect a full-blown recommendation.

He makes some great points and I actually agree with all of them.

At some point we gotta put the damn books down and take some action.

And then read only what moves you forward.

Thanks for sharing this, I didn't know I was getting some love.
 

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This is a 3rd separate community where I stumbled upon this video. The title is misleading and I'm afraid it will prevent some people from getting into self-help. The title suggests "Self-help is bad" but the video actually says "Self-help is good, just be aware of these traps".

I've been into self-help for years. And I did fall into those traps, but I think it's not such a big deal. I realized my mistakes, learned from them, and moved on.

It is definitely better if someone gets into self-help and makes those mistakes, as if they didn't get into self help at all.
 

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He posts here on the forum @MJ DeMarco.

This is his progress thread on that Youtube channel...

 

Valier

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This is a 3rd separate community where I stumbled upon this video. The title is misleading and I'm afraid it will prevent some people from getting into self-help. The title suggests "Self-help is bad" but the video actually says "Self-help is good, just be aware of these traps".

I've been into self-help for years. And I did fall into those traps, but I think it's not such a big deal. I realized my mistakes, learned from them, and moved on.

It is definitely better if someone gets into self-help and makes those mistakes, as if they didn't get into self help at all.

And I can definitely understand this.

In hindsight, I wished I could have included more about having a balance with taking action and reading self-help (something I tried to point out in my pinned comment, but of course will be missed by many).
 

Anda el Diablo

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Agreed. I’m done with the self help books. I’ve read enough. Instead of self help books, I’m actually researching the how to. I’m finding with too many self help books, it’s more motivational than action. Yeah, you read one and feel good about yourself and say you’re going to go out there and do it. The problem is that many of these books don’t give you the “how to,” they just give you the motivation.
 
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Fox

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Now this is something surreal to see, huh :rofl:

Appreciate the shoutout my man, and big love to MJ!

Ha posted at the same time.

Wow your channel really blew up - probably 100k in no time.

Congrats again - I have been going through your channel strategy and it is amazing to see how well it worked.
 

WM Roger

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I got his video's recommended just yesterday! This seems like a pretty young guy, I've walked this path also, took me 15 years to realise the pitfalls of the self help machine..
 

MJ DeMarco

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He posts here on the forum @MJ DeMarco.

This is his progress thread on that Youtube channel...


My bad, I never made the connection. I'm embarassed... sorry @Valier -- PS, great job on the video -- just curious, has YT come at you for any copyright notices? Since your vid heavily uses copyrighted movies, just curious if they consider the work infringing as the lines between non-commercial and commercial are somewhat blurry.
 
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Valier

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My bad, I never made the connection. I'm embarassed... sorry @Valier -- PS, great job on the video -- just curious, has YT come at you for any copyright notices? Since your vid heavily uses copyrighted movies, just curious if they consider the work infringing as the lines between non-commercial and commercial are somewhat blurry.

No problem at all!

So with movie clips in the way I use them - it all falls under fair use.

As long as it's altered in some way and isn't just rehashed straight up, then it's all good. There are plenty other bigger channels than mine that use movie clips and the like that are monetised, and have been continuing perfectly fine :)
 

peterb0yd

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Awesome job @Valier. I had a feeling you were on this forum haha.
 

Valier

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My bad, I never made the connection. I'm embarassed... sorry @Valier -- PS, great job on the video -- just curious, has YT come at you for any copyright notices? Since your vid heavily uses copyrighted movies, just curious if they consider the work infringing as the lines between non-commercial and commercial are somewhat blurry.

Oh, and also - if you thought that video was a shout out, you should check out my latest video on money MJ, it's literally dedicated to the principles you discuss in TMF and Unscripted .
 
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Andy Black

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Holy crap! You’ve come a long way since your first video @Valier. Really well made video. Well done.
 

biggeemac

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This video is amazing. I knew this was an issue, but its great that someone confirmed what I already knew. Unfortunately, my significant other is a HUGE consumer of self-help videos and the related products. I may have to show this to her since I get in trouble when I call her an action faker.
 

Greg R

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A recent discovery I had was by Alan Watts on this topic. The main reason why self development is flawed is because the one who *needs* the fixing, is the one doing the fixing.
 
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Ravens_Shadow

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Great video, jived really well with me and what my general outlook on self help is too.
 

Kevin88660

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This guy nailed it.

Also, an individual on this site gets a shout-out!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmLTLkCBSN8


This is for anyone that is going through the early self-help stages.

I feel like the stages of self-help are:

1. Consume & Do Nothing
2. Consume & Action Fake
3. Consume & Reflect
4. Real Action & Learn Exponentially

I feel like most people get caught in Step 2 because they never take a step back, stop consuming mindlessly, and reflect on a better path for themselves. This was monumental for me. I realized that I had been doing all this action faking for years and still getting no where.

That was probably my biggest "F this" moment. Following the paths laid out by gurus for YEARS and still hating life. Not ideal. Luckily I got out of the endless cycle and didn't drop thousands on self-help seminars, though I did get pretty close a few times.
I don’t think it is a fair criticism to say self-help books are promoting a culture of consuming content and not taking action. I have not seen any material that does that.

Contention creation and action avoidance come from the fact that actions are painful and consuming content is effectless. And it might lead to some not taking action and addiction of consuming contents to feel a sense of accomplishment. It worked the same way as drugs addiction. Why work hard when you can feel good with a sniff?

I think he rightfully point out that that is a hype of methodologies..some authors try to sell their “secret sauce” to explain why you have been failing and all it takes is just to know the new way of doing things. Ya he is spot on that but..not all authors..most are not that BS.

On the the side of hustling he is back to contradicting himself..Too much action fake and too much emphasize on hustling?? So what is the problem here? I argue the reverse is true. There is too little hustling and too much short cut scams around. Just too much. I am tired of hearing people selling 4 hours scam when they worked minimum 14 hours a day.

In this age of internet, lots of good advice are “how to do things” are cheaply abundant. The science is cheap and free. The 64 million dollar question is how do you start and maintain your engine on execution???

My answer to this is very very simple. Human civilization for thousands of years has shown a sure way of how to push millions of ordinary men with ordinary talents to extreme execution. Look no further than military rhetoric and “brainwashing”.
 

rpeck90

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And I can definitely understand this.

In hindsight, I wished I could have included more about having a balance with taking action and reading self-help (something I tried to point out in my pinned comment, but of course will be missed by many).

Props for taking action!!
 
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Black_Dragon43

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I don’t think it is a fair criticism to say self-help books are promoting a culture of consuming content and not taking action. I have not seen any material that does that.

Contention creation and action avoidance come from the fact that actions are painful and consuming content is effectless. And it might lead to some not taking action and addiction of consuming contents to feel a sense of accomplishment. It worked the same way as drugs addiction. Why work hard when you can feel good with a sniff?

I think he rightfully point out that that is a hype of methodologies..some authors try to sell their “secret sauce” to explain why you have been failing and all it takes is just to know the new way of doing things. Ya he is spot on that but..not all authors..most are not that BS.

On the the side of hustling he is back to contradicting himself..Too much action fake and too much emphasize on hustling?? So what is the problem here? I argue the reverse is true. There is too little hustling and too much short cut scams around. Just too much. I am tired of hearing people selling 4 hours scam when they worked minimum 14 hours a day.

In this age of internet, lots of good advice are “how to do things” are cheaply abundant. The science is cheap and free. The 64 million dollar question is how do you start and maintain your engine on execution???

My answer to this is very very simple. Human civilization for thousands of years has shown a sure way of how to push millions of ordinary men with ordinary talents to extreme execution. Look no further than military rhetoric and “brainwashing”.
Great post, I liked the video, but found it greatly exaggerated.

The creator clearly has cinematographic experience, and is aware of how to get people to feel certain things to make the conclusion seem right, even though it's an exaggerated version of the truth imo.

Yes, there is a problem with self-help which sells for thousands of dollars, and here's why: for 95%+ of people it's not worth that money. A $10K Tony Robbins event may be worth going to for a Fortune 500 CEO who is depressed. It pulls him out of depression, and the next day he can make it back up in no time.

But if you don't even have a business or connections, then paying $10K for a Tony Robbins event is useless. That's what the gurus don't say, that value is relative. It may be a smart decision for one person, and a terrible decision for the other.
 

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@Valier

Great video. I haven't been too active around here recently because I have been occupied working on my startup, but I check in casually every week or so. Wasn't expecting to watch a 20 minute video all the way through this morning, but it happened. Great storytelling + great content.

You have a grasp of these concepts better than most people twice your age. Keep it up.
 
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@Valier

Excellent Videography my friend. Inspired me to reply...which I almost never do.
I am a self-consumer, and action-faker. This has inspired me to ACT. I know what my strength is. I know what the next step is. I am going to do it!
As a side-hustling comedian for 30 years...I appreciate points made by the greats like George Carlin.
Here is his take on Self Help. LANGUAGE WARNING. 43 seconds long.
View attachment Carlin Self Help.mp4
 

peterb0yd

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That's what the gurus don't say, that value is relative. It may be a smart decision for one person, and a terrible decision for the other.

This is a fantastic point. The reason I was getting nowhere was because I was doing things that didn't align with my goals and personality.

It took a lot of reflection to understand a better path for me. Once the path is clearer, then you know what to invest in.

If you're starting a social media agency then taking Tai Lopez' social media online course is probably a GOOD IDEA. If you don't give a crap about social media, but just want to make money or build a personal brand, it's most definitely a REALLY BAD IDEA.

Not all online courses are scammy, even if the creators use marketing tactics that feel scammy.

Grant Cardone has a bunch of highly valuable sales courses. Does it make sense for someone that likes sales but hates Grant's personality to buy his courses? NO!

It all depends on what aligns with the individual's goals and personality.
 
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Black_Dragon43

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This is a fantastic point. The reason I was getting nowhere was because I was doing things that didn't align with my goals and ideal lifestyle.

It took a lot of reflection to understand a better path for me. Once the path is clearer, then you know what to invest in.

If you're starting a social media agency, then taking Tai Lopez' social media online course is probably a GOOD IDEA. If you don't give a crap about social media, but just want to make money or build a personal brand, it's most definitely a REALLY BAD IDEA.

Not all online courses are scammy, even if the creators use marketing tactics that feel scammy.

Grant Cardone has a bunch of highly valuable sales courses. Does it make sense for someone that likes sales but hates Grant's personality? NO!

It all depends on what aligns with the individual's goals and personality.
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." Sun Tzu, the Art of War
 
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Kevin88660

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This is a fantastic point. The reason I was getting nowhere was because I was doing things that didn't align with my goals and personality.

It took a lot of reflection to understand a better path for me. Once the path is clearer, then you know what to invest in.

If you're starting a social media agency then taking Tai Lopez' social media online course is probably a GOOD IDEA. If you don't give a crap about social media, but just want to make money or build a personal brand, it's most definitely a REALLY BAD IDEA.

Not all online courses are scammy, even if the creators use marketing tactics that feel scammy.

Grant Cardone has a bunch of highly valuable sales courses. Does it make sense for someone that likes sales but hates Grant's personality? NO!

It all depends on what aligns with the individual's goals and personality.
He charges like 10k for a coaching package. Obscene.
 

peterb0yd

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Saw his Gurus video. Will watch this one too.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9Gpr7PEnbs

Yeah this one is catchy but it's a bit off the mark in my opinion.

@Valier - you will get a LOT OF PRAISE for videos like this, just a heads up. People LOVE to nit-pick successful people and find reasons why they are morally superior.

Let me ask you, if I write an ad for an online course on gardening, and my copy is so convincing that you decide to buy the course even though you HATE gardening... am I in the wrong? If three months go by after starting my course and you haven't put down any soil or planted anything... am I a scammer?

The reason these people say "you have to do the work" is because it's true. If you're buying an online course, you have to do the work.

Occasionally you'll find people that offer "done for you" services as well as online courses. Trust me, they are FAR more expensive than the online course.

It might be $5,000 for the online program. It's probably $50,000 for the done-for-you.

Why? Because doing the work is where the GOLD is.

Most people that buy online courses don't want to do the work because they don't give a crap about the work.

OK I'm beating a dead horse at this point lol. Carry on.
 
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That's what the gurus don't say, that value is relative. It may be a smart decision for one person, and a terrible decision for the other.

It all comes down to taking action, like many here have said.

Loads of successful entrepreneurs, such as Designpickle CEO Russ Perry, have said that they've invested six-figures plus on self improvement coaching/seminars/etc. It works for them because these guys are proven action takers.

Absorbing information and doing nothing with it isn't just a waste of time -- it's actually harmful, because the information could be full of shit and without testing it out, you'd just accept it as true.
 

Valier

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Yeah this one is catchy but it's a bit off the mark in my opinion.

@Valier - you will get a LOT OF PRAISE for videos like this, just a heads up. People LOVE to nit-pick successful people and find reasons why they are morally superior.

Let me ask you, if I write an ad for an online course on gardening, and my copy is so convincing that you decide to buy the course even though you HATE gardening... am I in the wrong? If three months go by after starting my course and you haven't put down any soil or planted anything... am I a scammer?

The reason these people say "you have to do the work" is because it's true. If you're buying an online course, you have to do the work.

Occasionally you'll find people that offer "done for you" services as well as online courses. Trust me, they are FAR more expensive than the online course.

It might be $5,000 for the online program. It's probably $50,000 for the done-for-you.

Why? Because doing the work is where the GOLD is.

Most people that buy online courses don't want to do the work because they don't give a crap about the work.

OK I'm beating a dead horse at this point lol. Carry on.

I agree with this for the most part... except this industry in particular is something much bigger than just convincing sales copy.

The video touches on it in broad strokes, but there is an entire rabbit hole of what can essentially be labelled as a pyramid scheme, cult-like communities, and piles upon piles of debt caused by some of the "fake gurus" mentioned in this video.

If you ever get the chance, check out Coffeezilla's videos on these guys. Here is a particularly interesting video where he interviews a Dan Lok student:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VDiM_PMmZA&t=2s


Is it really just convincing sales copy to be encouraging people to finance their $2000 course and labelling it as "essentially free" like John Crestani did in his webinar?

Is it really just effective marketing when they spend the first 30-45 minutes of the webinar telling their audience how "easy" it is, and only spare a momentary few seconds to say "you have to put in the work though" (a sentence that will very likely fly above the audience's head).

Is it really just an online course teaching you "affiliate marketing" when they portray it as a lifestyle product, and as though there is a high-chance of success when taking their courses (despite their success rates almost definitely being sub 5%)?

Isn't it a little fishy that so many of the "students" that come out of these courses just end up selling the course to other people for a commission?

I'm all for effective marketing strategies, and online education. Those were not the issue.

But when you really assess the tactics that these "fake gurus" use, it becomes incredibly predatory on people's insecurities - I highly encourage you to watch a webinar from either Kevin David, or John Crestani and tell me if it's just effective sales copy.

And here’s another video of a BBC investigation into Samuel Leeds after an ex-solider killed himself after going into debt for one of Leeds’ “programs”.

View: https://youtu.be/eAmYaAYUnc8


There's more than meets the eye with this industry - having done so much research for this video and going through all of these webinars, that I can assure you!
 

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