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How is coding a fast lane venture?

Anything considered a "hustle" and not necessarily a CENTS-based Fastlane

ItsAJackal

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I know I'm going to get slammed for this, but I'm just curious. So many threads are people rushing to learn code. But why?

I completely understand that coding is a valuable skill. But isn't it just another skill for a slowlane venture? If you spend months learning code on the side, and you start a web design business...aren't you just back to trading time for money? Is the idea to build a large design agency?

I'm sorry for the ignorance, I just don't get it.
 
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The-J

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People are doing it because it's better than doing nothing. These are generally people with very few marketable skills and no idea what to do with their time.

They're not learning to code, they're learning to SELL. If you're doing any sort of business, you're always selling. You're always using your ideas to change the ideas of another person, and using your knowledge to inspire them to act on that change. That's all selling is.

Best of all, it requires $0 upfront investment and can be done even by someone living in a poor country with only access to a smartphone, a data plan, and pen & paper. If you're in the developed world, it can be done even if you're homeless.

That's why they're doing it. That's why it's worth doing if you have no other ideas or way out of your situation.
 

allen0879

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I know I'm going to get slammed for this, but I'm just curious. So many threads are people rushing to learn code. But why?

I completely understand that coding is a valuable skill. But isn't it just another skill for a slowlane venture? If you spend months learning code on the side, and you start a web design business...aren't you just back to trading time for money? Is the idea to build a large design agency?

I'm sorry for the ignorance, I just don't get it.
Coding is only a skill for a slowlane venture if you're using it to start a slowlane venture! Same with sales skills if you're selling encyclopedias door to door in 2020.

You can use coding/technical skills to build a product or service that solves a problem in the market, just as you would use writing skills to write a book that can sell many copies.

Software is a great business because you can get started without too much capital and it can scale via the internet. You are also building an automated software system that works 24/7. You don't have the costs of producing a physical product like widgets made in a factory. You can easily reproduce anything digital and sell it over and over.

Programming skills are also in high demand right now if you want to just get a job working for someone else. But most good paying programming jobs have a significant barrier to entry. There is high demand for good software developers, not just any code monkey that did a tutorial. There is much more to a software development job than just writing code. You have to design/engineer robust systems that need to be maintained, understand the business domain for the problems you're solving, communicate effectively, and learn new tech constantly. Most people quit before their skills get to this level. It takes years. (I'm a software engineer)

Even if you start a business but hire out your software development, technical skills/knowledge is extremely valuable for managing others building software and making business decisions. I've seen a lot of smart people get burned because they didn't understand how to manage their software development and couldn't make good decisions. They were flying blind.

So, it depends on how you use your coding skills, just like any other skill. You can have two people with building skills and one person can build a deck in his backyard and the other can build skyscrapers in NYC.

Also, think about this...A company like Amazon is pretty much a software system with warehouses attached. Software manages all of the logistics, eCommerce, recommendations etc. The code that runs Amazon is a big part of what allowed it to grow and scale so fast.
 

allen0879

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People are doing it because it's better than doing nothing. These are generally people with very few marketable skills and no idea what to do with their time.

They're not learning to code, they're learning to SELL. If you're doing any sort of business, you're always selling. You're always using your ideas to change the ideas of another person, and using your knowledge to inspire them to act on that change. That's all selling is.

Best of all, it requires $0 upfront investment and can be done even by someone living in a poor country with only access to a smartphone, a data plan, and pen & paper. If you're in the developed world, it can be done even if you're homeless.

That's why they're doing it. That's why it's worth doing if you have no other ideas or way out of your situation.
Not true. It's interesting work. Easy to get started, hard to master.

What about the people that can code AND sell?! People that can build things and then go sell them are much more valuable. I'm always approached by IDEA GUYS that need a technical co-founder, but I don't need them because I'm an idea guy that can also build things.

I'd much rather teach an engineer how to sell, than a sales guy how to program.
 
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csalvato

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I know I'm going to get slammed for this, but I'm just curious. So many threads are people rushing to learn code. But why?

I completely understand that coding is a valuable skill. But isn't it just another skill for a slowlane venture? If you spend months learning code on the side, and you start a web design business...aren't you just back to trading time for money? Is the idea to build a large design agency?

I'm sorry for the ignorance, I just don't get it.

Tech companies are by far the most scalable in the shortest period of time, imo.

That's why companies like WeWork and StitchFix position themselves as tech companies, not real estate companies or fashion companies.

Unfortunately, to build a tech company, you need to understand, well, tech. Either that or partner with someone who does understand tech.

You can't understand tech without understanding code.

See where I'm going with this?

It's not the only path, but it's definitely a very valid one.
 
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Black_Dragon43

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@The-J has a great response. Just to add to what he's said...

Many people here are just looking to start making money PLUS have the freedom to work when they want and for who they want. Most people here do not really want to make $100 million, and they're here for the lifestyle that puts freedom at the top. Market trends show that more and more developers are joining the gig economy, and working from their own homes, setting their own schedules. More and more companies hire remotely, and have entirely remote teams (Zapier, GitLab, InVision, Twist, etc.). So learning to code will allow you to tap into this lifestyle of being able to work from wherever you want, whenever you want, and basically being an independent contractor.

This isn't bad, but it may not be for you if your goals are different.
 
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allen0879

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@The-J has a great response. Just to add to what he's said...

Many people here are just looking to start making money PLUS have the freedom to work when they want and for who they want. Most people here do not really want to make $100 million, and they're here for the lifestyle that puts freedom at the top. Market trends show that more and more developers are joining the gig economy, and working from their own homes, setting their own schedules. More and more companies hire remotely, and have entirely remote teams (Zapier, GitLab, InVision, Twist, etc.). So learning to code will allow you to tap into this lifestyle of being able to work from wherever you want, whenever you want, and basically being an independent contractor.

This isn't bad, but it may not be for you if your goals are different.
Yes, I work remotely and love it. It also gives you a larger pool of talented people to hire from for your business vs hiring locally.
 

KJG

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I know I'm going to get slammed for this, but I'm just curious. So many threads are people rushing to learn code. But why?

I completely understand that coding is a valuable skill. But isn't it just another skill for a slowlane venture? If you spend months learning code on the side, and you start a web design business...aren't you just back to trading time for money? Is the idea to build a large design agency?

I'm sorry for the ignorance, I just don't get it.

Well, I own my own window cleaning business, which I started 2018 and we are now 3 full time people and the reason I want to learn coding is because when you start a "in-person" business you are extremly tight down. You cant just move your scheduelled or scale "fast". When i'm saying "fast" i'm not talking about 3 people to 100, but 3-10. It takes a lot of cash, for cars, insurence you name it.

But if you can start you own online business and not be location and time bound, while have a better scaleability, then you have something truly unic.
- I'm not saying that it wont be hard and not be 60-80 hours week, but trust me. When you have been cleaning windows for almost 2 years, doing 60-80 hours a week no exception and what you have to show for it is 3 full time people with 20% profit, which you cant take out if you wanna grow the company, then you sure as hell want something that has a much bigger potiential when it is eating this much of your time.

That being said, i love the journey and would not trade it for anything.
- Just be sure to pick something that gives a reward that you think is good enough.
 
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TreyAllDay

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I learned coding because I wanted to sell a subscription based software that could theoretically be automated. The idea is to get 100,500,1000 users paying $19.99 or $199.99 or even $499.

To give you an idea, my most profitable business is a digital signage business. We have 350 businesses that pay a monthly fee of $23.95/month and up. They order a unit that plugs into the tv and the rest is automated, their training, the content creation is on their end, the tech support is largely automated.

A more consumer example - you can code a useful app and sell ads on it. I THINK the guy who created angry birds made millions upon millions and was just some young guy in his 20s. I have a buddy who built a site help people find tires for their car size, and companies pay him X amount of dollars per lead.

Software is just an easy way for people to get started. But yeah if you're learning it just to build other people's products/software then that is not fastlane. Although I will take the odd programming job if it's big enough and my company is slow, I can change almost $200/hr because I have a certain skill level. So if I'm bored on a weekend and want to make an extra 4K over 3 days while my SASS business is operating in the background I'll take it
 
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jmusic

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Software is just an easy way for people to get started. But yeah if you're learning it just to build other people's products/software then that is not fastlane. Although I will take the odd programming job if it's big enough and my company is slow, I can change almost $200/hr because I have a certain skill level. So if I'm bored on a weekend and want to make an extra 4K over 3 days while my SASS business is operating in the background I'll take it

What kind of skillset do you have to be worth $200/hr?? I'm 65K salaried as an entry level React developer at the moment...
 

TreyAllDay

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What kind of skillset do you have to be worth $200/hr?? I'm 65K salaried as an entry level React developer at the moment...

My old IT firm charged $150/hr. For legit random shit like "backing up email", if you're working for a firm they're prob charging $150-$200/hr regardless of what they pay you.

I have a business background and development/copywriting/seo/etc so I don't need to hold team meetings etc and I know how to just get things done effectively. Not that I could actually start an agency and call on clients saying i'm a "one man team" nor would I want to. I just take referrals and do stuff for my old colleagues.
 
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Val Okafor

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I know I'm going to get slammed for this, but I'm just curious. So many threads are people rushing to learn code. But why?

I completely understand that coding is a valuable skill. But isn't it just another skill for a slowlane venture? If you spend months learning code on the side, and you start a web design business...aren't you just back to trading time for money? Is the idea to build a large design agency?

I'm sorry for the ignorance, I just don't get it.
All the answers so far are correct, and if I can summarize it, I will say the reason is funding and misconception.,

That is funding to start a tech-related business. The majority of startup costs go into hiring developers. If you can learn how to create the first version of your intended product then you can limit or negate the need for funding. If you choose to go the employee route, You can go from zero to $$$ in less than two years with zero to little upfront cost, not something you can say of most other fields. With the extra money, you can theoretically save money faster to launch your fast lane venture.

However, you are correct, people do rush to learn how to code because of misconceptions. They see the $$$, the work flexibility, the headphone, and the tablet and they want to get in. Little did they know that this field is tough. It is tough to learn to code, it is lonely to learn to code, it takes time to learn to code. It's extremely challenging to keep up with technology trends.

Developers are professional students, perpetually learning new concepts, new technologies and unlearning what they just learned. Most wannabe developers quit! lucky developers escape to management, courageous developers switch career path and for the rest of the developers, it is a slow lane path after all. A typical developer's day consists of creating reports/estimations work to do, bug fixes, stand-ups, Jira ticket, Sprint planning, unreasonable deadlines, harsh code reviews. Throw in the quarterly performance review, plus a dozen other office crap and you see why developers like the rest of their fellow employees dread Monday morning.

Learning to code is tough, being alive is tough, doing nothing is tough, given the options, I will only wish I had learned to code earlier. It has served me well and is providing a predictable path for me out of the scripted life. My advice for anyone, when in doubt of whats your next step - learn to code.
 

csalvato

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All the answers so far are correct, and if I can summarize it, I will say the reason is funding and misconception.,

That is funding to start a tech-related business. The majority of startup costs go into hiring developers. If you can learn how to create the first version of your intended product then you can limit or negate the need for funding. If you choose to go the employee route, You can go from zero to $$$ in less than two years with zero to little upfront cost, not something you can say of most other fields. With the extra money, you can theoretically save money faster to launch your fast lane venture.

However, you are correct, people do rush to learn how to code because of misconceptions. They see the $$$, the work flexibility, the headphone, and the tablet and they want to get in. Little did they know that this field is tough. It is tough to learn to code, it is lonely to learn to code, it takes time to learn to code. It's extremely challenging to keep up with technology trends.

Developers are professional students, perpetually learning new concepts, new technologies and unlearning what they just learned. Most wannabe developers quit! lucky developers escape to management, courageous developers switch career path and for the rest of the developers, it is a slow lane path after all. A typical developer's day consists of creating reports/estimations work to do, bug fixes, stand-ups, Jira ticket, Sprint planning, unreasonable deadlines, harsh code reviews. Throw in the quarterly performance review, plus a dozen other office crap and you see why developers like the rest of their fellow employees dread Monday morning.

Learning to code is tough, being alive is tough, doing nothing is tough, given the options, I will only wish I had learned to code earlier. It has served me well and is providing a predictable path for me out of the scripted life. My advice for anyone, when in doubt of whats your next step - learn to code.

You are a legit individual imo!
 

bdb

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However, you are correct, people do rush to learn how to code because of misconceptions. They see the $$$, the work flexibility, the headphone, and the tablet and they want to get in. Little did they know that this field is tough. It is tough to learn to code, it is lonely to learn to code, it takes time to learn to code. It's extremely challenging to keep up with technology trends.

I fully agree with this gentleman.

There's a lot of misconceptions in this forum where people keep recommending others to learn to code because apparently if everything fails you can "easily" get a $100k remote job after your first bootcamp and a few months of experience. That is sadly not true, and you can verify by going to any job site and checking the requirements for +$100k jobs.

Being competent at coding requires time. Hundreds of hours in front of the screen, it's lonely, it's frustrating, it's not for everyone, it's not fastlane. The vast majority of fellow coders I've met over the years are still employees after many years because they didn't have other skills besides coding as it requires a huge mental effort to be good at it.

Can coding be fastlane ? sure just like any other tool that allows you to create a product. If your business idea is simple from a coding point of view, maybe you will be able create a basic product that you can validate after a few months of coding. What about setting up a web design agency ? you are going to be trading time for money for quite some time before you can scale and hire other people to do your work, that will take time, maybe a couple years or more.

Do you want to have a decent job, 1 to 2 years from now ? grab lots of coffee and start learning how to code today.

Do you have an idea for a software product that you want to implement ? save money and look for ways to hire cheap coders (check india, russia or eastern europe) to create your minimum viable product, learn about managing people, learn about budgeting, about marketing, about basic code architecture in your spare time. It will save you months maybe years of frustration and you will be able to quickly validate your idea. Check this bit about whatsapp history,

WhatsApp was founded in 2009 by Brian Acton and Jan Koum, former employees of Yahoo!. After leaving Yahoo! in September 2007, they took some time off in South America.[10] At one point, they applied for jobs at Facebook but were rejected.[10]

In January 2009, after purchasing an iPhone and realizing the potential of the app industry on the App Store, Koum and Acton began visiting Koum's friend Alex Fishman in West San Jose to discuss a new type of messaging app that would "[show] statuses next to individual names of the people". They realized that to take the idea further, they'd need an iPhone developer. Fishman visited RentACoder.com, found Russian developer Igor Solomennikov, and introduced him to Koum.
 
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csalvato

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There's a lot of misconceptions in this forum where people keep recommending others to learn to code because apparently if everything fails you can "easily" get a $100k remote job after your first bootcamp and a few months of experience. That is sadly not true, and you can verify by going to any job site and checking the requirements for +$100k jobs.

As someone who is following this closely on the forum, I've not seen this being said anywhere. Actually, it's the opposite. People who have had success because they know how to code are telling people they can't easily get a job on a bootcamp alone.

Do you have links to a specific place where someone says you can make $100k after a bootcamp + a few months of experience?

Also what's your experience hiring/getting hired in this space? Anyone who has done either knows that those lists of "requirements" (e.g. 5+ years of experience) are mostly guidelines, bordering on bullshit.

Being competent at coding requires time. Hundreds of hours in front of the screen, it's lonely, it's frustrating, it's not for everyone, it's not fastlane.

You're right on everything here, except the bolded part. Fastlane is a mindset, not a set of skills. For many people (not all people), being an adept programmer will be necessary to build a business at scale.

I feel like you misspoke, because later in your post you say that software engineering can be fastlane.

Did you mean to paint engineering in a bad light. Sounds like you had a bad experience, maybe...?

The vast majority of fellow coders I've met over the years are still employees after many years because they didn't have other skills besides coding as it requires a huge mental effort to be good at it.

Most of the population are employees; same for copywriters, marketers, manufacturers, distributors and even importer/exporters. It takes a huge mental effort to be good at anything. Should we discourage people from learning anything, then?

In other words, what's your point?

Do you want to have a decent job, 1 to 2 years from now ? grab lots of coffee and start learning how to code today.

A decent job? 1 to 2 years? It sounds like you're imposing your limiting beliefs on others.

I have been on both sides of the hiring table here. I have been hired with less than 1 year experience in software dev, with no experience writing production code at $120k.

On the other side, I've hired people who were right out of a 9-month intensive coding program for $85k, who were making $100k+ within their first year post-hire.

And, since I only focus on remote work, all my contacts have had experience getting fully remote jobs with a flexible schedule and benefits. Is that a just "decent" job to you? If so, have you ever had a shitty job driving people around, mopping floors or baking donuts at 4 AM?

Is it possible? Absolutely.

How common is it? I dunno, but I know a lot of people with the same experience as me and those I've hired.

Will it happen to everyone? No.

Do you have an idea for a software product that you want to implement ? save money and look for ways to hire cheap coders (check india, russia or eastern europe) to create your minimum viable product, learn about managing people, learn about budgeting, about marketing, about basic code architecture in your spare time. It will save you months maybe years of frustration and you will be able to quickly validate your idea. Check this bit about whatsapp history,

WhatsApp was founded in 2009 by Brian Acton and Jan Koum, former employees of Yahoo!. After leaving Yahoo! in September 2007, they took some time off in South America.[10] At one point, they applied for jobs at Facebook but were rejected.[10]

In January 2009, after purchasing an iPhone and realizing the potential of the app industry on the App Store, Koum and Acton began visiting Koum's friend Alex Fishman in West San Jose to discuss a new type of messaging app that would "[show] statuses next to individual names of the people". They realized that to take the idea further, they'd need an iPhone developer. Fishman visited RentACoder.com, found Russian developer Igor Solomennikov, and introduced him to Koum.

With respect, I find this advice very misguided, and your excerpt is being presented with the wrong context.

  1. "Cheap" coders are going to cost you a ton if you know nothing about software. I've known a ton about software, and have wasted a lot of money working with people in these countries.
  2. The days of hiring a third world programmer to write your app and make money are long gone. Back in 2009, you could sure as hell write some BS calculator app that had ads, generated revenue and then sold it for $1M. Those days are over, and the non-programmers are no longer infesting this space with crappy apps as the quality bar to be successful and iterate has dramatically increased since then.
  3. The founders of WhatsApp did hire a developer in Russia...after knowing the ins and outs of developing software at Yahoo!. They were both computer/software engineers at Yahoo, which only furthers the point that you need to understand tech to found a successful tech company.
What's your experience in this area? It doesn't sound very comprehensive.
 
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bdb

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As someone who is following this closely on the forum, I've not seen this being said anywhere. Actually, it's the opposite. People who have had success because they know how to code are telling people they can't easily get a job on a bootcamp alone.

Do you have links to a specific place where someone says you can make $100k after a bootcamp + a few months of experience?

Also what's your experience hiring/getting hired in this space? Anyone who has done either knows that those lists of "requirements" (e.g. 5+ years of experience) are mostly guidelines, bordering on bullshit.



You're right on everything here, except the bolded part. Fastlane is a mindset, not a set of skills. For many people (not all people), being an adept programmer will be necessary to build a business at scale.

I feel like you misspoke, because later in your post you say that software engineering can be fastlane.

Did you mean to paint engineering in a bad light. Sounds like you had a bad experience, maybe...?



Most of the population are employees; same for copywriters, marketers, manufacturers, distributors and even importer/exporters. It takes a huge mental effort to be good at anything. Should we discourage people from learning anything, then?

In other words, what's your point?



A decent job? 1 to 2 years? It sounds like you're imposing your limiting beliefs on others.

I have been on both sides of the hiring table here. I have been hired with less than 1 year experience in software dev, with no experience writing production code at $120k.

On the other side, I've hired people who were right out of a 9-month intensive coding program for $85k, who were making $100k+ within their first year post-hire.

And, since I only focus on remote work, all my contacts have had experience getting fully remote jobs with a flexible schedule and benefits. Is that a just "decent" job to you? If so, have you ever had a shitty job driving people around, mopping floors or baking donuts at 4 AM?

Is it possible? Absolutely.

How common is it? I dunno, but I know a lot of people with the same experience as me and those I've hired.

Will it happen to everyone? No.



With respect, I find this advice very misguided, and your excerpt is being presented with the wrong context.

  1. "Cheap" coders are going to cost you a ton if you know nothing about software. I've known a ton about software, and have wasted a lot of money working with people in these countries.
  2. The days of hiring a third world programmer to write your app and make money are long gone. Back in 2009, you could sure as hell write some BS calculator app that had ads, generated revenue and then sold it for $1M. Those days are over, and the non-programmers are no longer infesting this space with crappy apps as the quality bar to be successful and iterate has dramatically increased since then.
  3. The founders of WhatsApp did hire a developer in Russia...after knowing the ins and outs of developing software at Yahoo!. They were both computer/software engineers at Yahoo, which only furthers the point that you need to understand tech to found a successful tech company.
What's your experience in this area? It doesn't sound very comprehensive.


With my comments I'm trying to help people who think they can get fast results by going into coding for a few months, I'm trying to warn them so that they can be better prepared for whats coming if they go this route, as I was there years ago thinking that coding was the answer to my problems and it was just an extra tool under my belt, it can be a rewarding experience depending on your objectives but it can also be very frustrating and time consuming if you don't have clear goals.

It has bee thrown around countless times that you can get a high paying job after learning to code for a few months, use the search feature, it might have even been yourself who said it now that I remember due to your crass assumptions and way of debating my advice.

For the rest of the comments, you seem to think that your experience is the norm out there, and if someone else has a different more down to earth experience than earning 120k a year after less than 1 year of coding experience then it means that something is wrong with that person's abilities or some weird stuff is happening behind the scenes.

I have been on both sides of the hiring table here. I have been hired with less than 1 year experience in software dev, with no experience writing production code at $120k.

Yes you are impressive for earning 120k a year with less than 1 year of experience, that is not the norm in my experience working as a developer, let's move on dude.
 
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csalvato

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With my comments I'm trying to help people who think they can get fast results by going into coding for a few months, I'm trying to warn them so that they can be better prepared for whats coming if they go this route, as I was there years ago thinking that coding was the answer to my problems and it was just an extra tool under my belt, it can be a rewarding experience depending on your objectives but it can also be very frustrating and time consuming if you don't have clear goals.

It has bee thrown around countless times that you can get a high paying job after learning to code for a few months, use the search feature, it might have even been yourself who said it now that I remember due to your crass assumptions and way of debating my advice.

For the rest of the comments, you seem to think that your experience is the norm out there, and if someone else has a different more down to earth experience than earning 120k a year after less than 1 year of coding experience then it means that something is wrong with that person's abilities or some weird stuff is happening behind the scenes.



Yes you are impressive for earning 120k a year with less than 1 year of experience, that is not the norm in my experience working as a developer, let's move on dude.

I appreciate what you’re doing in that you’re helping people realize that coding isn’t going to be a panacea for them. This was obviously a lesson you learned the hard way.

I’ve learned the same lesson, too. I think it’s worth sharing.

its important to call out that this has nothing to do with coding/engineering. They have to do with:

1. Believing things can fall into place easily (your words) or get “fast results” (your words)
2. You not having clear goals (your words)
3. Focusing on “the norm”(your words) instead of how to be outstanding (the people I choose hang out with and hire)

Here’s why my post came off as aggressive: it seems like you’re applying the lessons you learned to form a limiting belief that you’re now imposing on others.

If you look through the posts you will see the same lesson learned from real estate deals going bad or copywriting careers going awry.

Many of those people also falsely attribute their lack of success to the skill they learned, then realized it was not a panacea (for me, it was copywriting)

You’re right; learning to code won’t solve all your problems, set goals for you or be easy.

You’re misguided that learning to develop code is overkill (even if you want to found a tech company) or that there are a disproportionate amount of amazing software opportunities out there.

Either way, good luck to you.

PS - if you’ve been programming three years and still aren’t making over 100k from contracting or a job, then DM me. We can figure out how to get you there.
 
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Last edited:

bdb

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I appreciate what you’re doing in that you’re helping people realize that coding isn’t going to be a panacea for them. This was obviously a lesson you learned the hard way.

I’ve learned the same lesson, too. I think it’s worth sharing.

its important to call out that this has nothing to do with coding/engineering. They have to do with:

1. Believing things can fall into place easily (your words) or get “fast results” (your words)
2. You not having clear goals (your words)
3. Focusing on “the norm”(your words) instead of how to be outstanding (the people I choose hang out with and hire)

Here’s why my post came off as aggressive: it seems like you’re applying the lessons you learned to form a limiting belief that you’re now imposing on others.

If you look through the posts you will see the same lesson learned from real estate deals going bad or copywriting careers going awry.

Many of those people also falsely attribute their lack of success to the skill they learned, then realized it was not a panacea (for me, it was copywriting)

You’re right; learning to code won’t solve all your problems, set goals for you or be easy.

You’re misguided that learning to develop code is overkill (even if you want to found a tech company) or that there are a disproportionate amount of amazing software opportunities out there.

Either way, good luck to you.

PS - if you’ve been programming three years and still aren’t making over 100k from contracting or a job, then DM me. We can figure out how to get you there.

Seems like we agree after all. Though I never said that developing is overkill, depending on your goals it might be a better idea to learn other aspects of managing a business and delegate writing code to other cheaper developers that you can subcontract. My company employs awesome Indian devs every day so I got some firsthand experience here. If you decide to go into code then have in mind that it might get frustrating and time consuming, it's going to take some time for you to get good enough in order to create what you want and you just need to push through it.
 

csalvato

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Rocky Mountain West
Seems like we agree after all. Though I never said that developing is overkill, depending on your goals it might be a better idea to learn other aspects of managing a business and delegate writing code to other cheaper developers that you can subcontract. My company employs awesome Indian devs every day so I got some firsthand experience here. If you decide to go into code then have in mind that it might get frustrating and time consuming, it's going to take some time for you to get good enough in order to create what you want and you just need to push through it.

Thanks for hashing that out with me. I think people who now come in and read this thread will have a better understanding of reality.:smile:

Regarding Indian devs, I’ve had the same experience. I work with two Indian devs every day and they produce top quality work. Just need to be good at understanding the good from the bad, which is very hard if you’re not technical at all.

If someone is non technical,but wants to start a tech company,they don’t need to learn to code if they find a great tech partner IMO. Finding and cultivating a great partnership is a whole skill set on its own that most people should learn anyway... but I suppose that’s a different convo.
 

Devampre

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At first, many service based businesses will seem like another "job." The difference is that once you are able to afford to delegate parts of the day to day operation, you can begin to scale and free up more of your time.

Eventually, you could have a general manager that would oversee the day to day and you wouldn't have to be involved all that much.
 
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ItsAJackal

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Thank you all for the input, this actually confirms a lot of the issues I had with the "learn to code!!" crowd.

I do want to do something with my life and just keep spinning my wheels in the "want want want" phase. I was ready to blindly start coding and it just felt like yet another action with absolutely no goal in mind.
 

jmusic

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Thank you all for the input, this actually confirms a lot of the issues I had with the "learn to code!!" crowd.

I do want to do something with my life and just keep spinning my wheels in the "want want want" phase. I was ready to blindly start coding and it just felt like yet another action with absolutely no goal in mind.

For me it was a way to move forward that, at worst, would lead to a solid job. I decided on a bootcamp, because I was able to use military benefits to get some money coming in instead of being unemployed at home.
 

srodrigo

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If you spend months learning code on the side, and you start a web design business...aren't you just back to trading time for money?
Yes. A web design business might be good to get started, but it'd be building a job for yourself unless you scale and outsource.

Is the idea to build a large design agency?
Not for me. If you go beyond CSS (which I don't even consider "coding") and develop good business and coding skills, you can build products that have the potential to run over any service business like a design agency. Coding allows you to build products that fully comply to CENTS, specially the last two in the mid/long-term, which will make the big difference. In order to grow a design agency up to that point, it would probably take you ages, as scale (and probably time) is not in your favour.
 
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Roli

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So many threads are people rushing to learn code. But why?

Imagine you have an idea to build a digital widget that's never been seen before. Now imagine you are at a slowlane job with no savings.

You learn to code, you build your app, you sell your app, you become rich.

Obviously that's the edited version, but that's why people try and learn to code.

People are doing it because it's better than doing nothing. These are generally people with very few marketable skills and no idea what to do with their time.

Erm, no. See above.
 

GrayCode

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@GradyS


 

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Coding needs to be combined with another topic to become a useful product.

For example coding and art becomes games.
Coding and audio becomes a digital music studio.
Coding and driving became Uber.

Just learning to code to become someone elses wage slave is a terrible idea. You came to this site to escape the rat race permanently.
 
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allen0879

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Just learning to code to become someone elses wage slave is a terrible idea. You came to this site to escape the rat race permanently.

Yes, but working for others for awhile is sometimes the best option within your longer journey towards entrepreneurship and financial independence. You have to look at a job from a different perspective and not get too comfortable and dependent on that monthly salary.

Some great reasons for taking a job before/while starting your business:
- Get paid to learn and build your skills
- Save up capital to fund your business
- Learn how an industry works
- Learn how a company works(bonus points if it's a startup)
- Learn how to work with people(and deal with company politics)
- Pay your living expenses so you don't starve and stay out of debt.

Think of yourself as a spy. You are trying to learn all you can in a short amount of time so that you can be more successful in your own business venture.

Jobs aren't evil, they're just jobs. It all depends on your perspective and attitude.
 

GrayCode

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Yes, but working for others for awhile is sometimes the best option within your longer journey towards entrepreneurship and financial independence. You have to look at a job from a different perspective and not get too comfortable and dependent on that monthly salary.

Some great reasons for taking a job before/while starting your business:
- Get paid to learn and build your skills
- Save up capital to fund your business
- Learn how an industry works
- Learn how a company works(bonus points if it's a startup)
- Learn how to work with people(and deal with company politics)
- Pay your living expenses so you don't starve and stay out of debt.

Think of yourself as a spy. You are trying to learn all you can in a short amount of time so that you can be more successful in your own business venture.

Jobs aren't evil, they're just jobs. It all depends on your perspective and attitude.
This guy gets it.
 

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