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StrikingViper69

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You do raise an interesting point on what precisely talent is, and frankly I don't have a great answer. Is it God given? Is it the combination of a modicum of ability with insane work ethic? I would argue it's probably the latter, but in the end it may not even matter.

but, as I said in another post... I'm probably being too pedantic. One doesn't have to be a DaVinci to be awesome and skilled at a bunch of stuff.

Talent is a myth. It persists for a few reasons:
  • We struggle to comprehend our potential in the medium - long term
  • It's a great excuse not to try
  • It appeals to religious epistemology

"talent" is really being highly skilled at something, which comes from:
  • Persistance
  • Doing things the right way
  • Asking the right questions
  • Having a go and seeing what happens
  • Supportive environment
You find that "talented" kids, were usually practising that skill continuously throughout their childhood, maybe without consciously realising or intending it.

There are a few books that look into the subject of talent - Bounce is a really good one. The Talent Code is another (although I haven't read that one). The conclusion from a lot of these books, which study several fields, is that...

... talented people do the work.

Talented people also appear "talented", because they suffer from expert amnesia. This is where they have programmed all the simple tasks that mere mortals struggle with, into their subconscious. For example, a lot of great (really great) guitar players believe vibrato technique is something you either have, or you don't have. They are so good at the technique, they struggle to consciously comprehend the individual elemetns of it. However, I can tell you for a fact they are wrong - give me any half-wit with a guitar and I can give them a great vibrato in about 6-10 weeks.

From my personal experience teaching, most people learn at the same sort of rate. What differs is:
  • practice time
  • attention to detail
  • time spent worrying if you did it right over just getting on with it
=====
Most "talented" people are, to put it in fastlane terms, people that enjoy the process, in an artistically creative field. They're good at painting, because they can sit for 10 hours a day painting.... every day.
 
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Deleted50669

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Talent is a myth. It persists for a few reasons:
  • We struggle to comprehend our potential in the medium - long term
  • It's a great excuse not to try
  • It appeals to religious epistemology

"talent" is really being highly skilled at something, which comes from:
  • Persistance
  • Doing things the right way
  • Asking the right questions
  • Having a go and seeing what happens
  • Supportive environment
You find that "talented" kids, were usually practising that skill continuously throughout their childhood, maybe without consciously realising or intending it.

There are a few books that look into the subject of talent - Bounce is a really good one. The Talent Code is another (although I haven't read that one). The conclusion from a lot of these books, which study several fields, is that...

... talented people do the work.

Talented people also appear "talented", because they suffer from expert amnesia. This is where they have programmed all the simple tasks that mere mortals struggle with, into their subconscious. For example, a lot of great (really great) guitar players believe vibrato technique is something you either have, or you don't have. They are so good at the technique, they struggle to consciously comprehend the individual elemetns of it. However, I can tell you for a fact they are wrong - give me any half-wit with a guitar and I can give them a great vibrato in about 6-10 weeks.

From my personal experience teaching, most people learn at the same sort of rate. What differs is:
  • practice time
  • attention to detail
  • time spent worrying if you did it right over just getting on with it
=====
Most "talented" people are, to put it in fastlane terms, people that enjoy the process, in an artistically creative field. They're good at painting, because they can sit for 10 hours a day painting.... every day.
This is spot on. I had - no - talent for coding at all just 7 months ago. Now I would (humbly) consider myself an intermediate to advanced Node.js developer, who can build secure APIs. This was not some innate attribute that had been waiting to be expressed when the time was right. This was a concentrated effort of growth and knowledge acquisition, time sacrifice, and a personal belief that I could attain that competency. The real talent is Google.
 

StrikingViper69

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This is spot on. I had - no - talent for coding at all just 7 months ago. Now I would (humbly) consider myself an intermediate to advanced Node.js developer, who can build secure APIs. This was not some innate attribute that had been waiting to be expressed when the time was right. This was a concentrated effort of growth and knowledge acquisition, time sacrifice, and a personal belief that I could attain that competency. The real talent is Google.

I'd say the talent was in you have a crack and putting the effort in!
 
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JackieZ

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I am not a polymath but I love Scott Adams (Dilbert creator's) idea of skill stacking - "every skill you acquire doubles your odds of success."

I try to gain new skills from whatever venture I do, or gain skills for ventures I plan in the future. I never pursue a skill unless I have a reason to though (i.e. an expected payoff for it).
 

MarkusHG

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Being a multipotentialite is a gift and a curse. I find myself finding an interest in something. Then, I will excel at it quickly. After mastering whatever it may be...I'll get bored with it and move on to something else. I get annoyed by my own actions when that occurs. I wish I can kick the habit and just focus on ONE thing. Not trying to sound arrogant or anything of that nature. But imagine you are good at everything. Now, it's time to make money. But you don't know what direction to go because anything is an option for you. No action is taken towards anything because of the fear of "I don't know if i'm doing the RIGHT business." It is also a form of perfectionism. I feel it is holding me back from reaching my full potential in the world of business. Combat sports(mainly the sport of boxing) and music production are the only things that keep me constantly interested. I don't know why I've never gotten bored with the sport of boxing yet. I lowkey think it's because humans are unpredictable. A person may assume but no one truly knows what an opponent is going to do in the ring or outside of the ring. Especially, in a time of desperation.

That feeling and the frustration is very familiar to me, and I haven't quite found a "solution" to the struggle.
I am a bit frustrated that so much relies on us having to earn money (but that's the way it is), because I would probably also be happiest just exploring without the pressure of having to turn it into something I can monetize..
However, the internet offers quite a few ways to earn enough money through a myriad of interests combined with some skills (online marketing is a great skill to learn + niche knowledge to build/sell your own projects or consult), and another way to help you free up time to pursue multiple interests or careers is cooperation. This multi-faceted interest is often coupled with a certain degree of introversion, so that's complicated, but people skills are a good thing to learn :D.

Don't beat yourself up about it and with time there might come a huge project that combines many interests and can actually keep you happy. I haven't found it yet, but the interests I've had in my life so far seem to spiral into an underlying concept that seems to be getting more and more clear to me. It takes time, enjoy the ride.
The concept of a well-rounded man has been around (Some examples were already given and Samurai were also educated in many areas such as art and culture as well as war). Try to discover if there is a principle that guides you and use that as motivation and orientation (helping people, improving your community, becoming a better person, artistic expression, inner peace etc.).

At the same time, I often feel inferior to other people because I've never reached mastery in anything, particularly in sports which have always been my primary passions outside of entrepreneurship.

It seems like no matter what sport I engage in, I always stop improving after about 2-3 years and end up with average skills. But then it makes me think of Yvon Chouinard, the founder of Patagonia, who wrote in his book Let My People Go Surfing:



Perhaps that's a fitting word for me, too - an 80 percenter. You're proficient enough, but you can't call yourself exceptional.

Society rewards specialists usually, but a lot of people who really broke out and changed something big are people who could take influences from different fields and combine them into something special. Steve Jobs surely did not only hear praise in his phase of searching, but you can't deny his influence.
I love the 80 percenter thing and that's what it is to me as well . I completely dive in, try to learn rapidly until I've acquired a certain proficiency or knowledge of the "principle" of that interest and move on to see how they combine with other areas. 80% seems about right - beyond that you need fixation or obsession, 80% good at something is still better than most ;).

80% in many different areas is quite exceptional, you just can't quickly impress as easily as an expert can.
That is often a problem. But think of how amazing and infinitely more interesting people are who have many skills compared to experts when you actually get to know them.

The more you develop interests, the more you see connections and the quicker you learn successive skills - the first Martial Art is hard, but the principles apply in all of them, and going from one to the next is different than starting from scratch. The first art form is also hard to grasp, but if you transfer your knowledge the following skills come much easier, because the basic principles apply.
Then when you know some things at a basic level, you can become amazed at connections between photography and martial arts, philosophy and physics and so on..
 
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Leo Hendrix

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The list is endless.

What's hard is picking a few things and doubling down on em.
 

Plaza Fury

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I highly recommend picking a category like stocks/trading, e-commerce, real estate investing, or digital marketing.

There’s enough to learn in any one category that you won’t be able to master it as fast.

I thought I replied to this but thank you for your suggestions. I've been very interested in pursuing digital marketing lately. I feel I can apply that knowledge to many different avenues. Plus, marketing is so important nowadays that I have to take it serious. You're right, I won't be able to master it as fast either. But I'm up for the challenge.
 

Plaza Fury

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That feeling and the frustration is very familiar to me, and I haven't quite found a "solution" to the struggle.
I am a bit frustrated that so much relies on us having to earn money (but that's the way it is), because I would probably also be happiest just exploring without the pressure of having to turn it into something I can monetize..
However, the internet offers quite a few ways to earn enough money through a myriad of interests combined with some skills (online marketing is a great skill to learn + niche knowledge to build/sell your own projects or consult), and another way to help you free up time to pursue multiple interests or careers is cooperation. This multi-faceted interest is often coupled with a certain degree of introversion, so that's complicated, but people skills are a good thing to learn :D.

Don't beat yourself up about it and with time there might come a huge project that combines many interests and can actually keep you happy. I haven't found it yet, but the interests I've had in my life so far seem to spiral into an underlying concept that seems to be getting more and more clear to me. It takes time, enjoy the ride.
The concept of a well-rounded man has been around (Some examples were already given and Samurai were also educated in many areas such as art and culture as well as war). Try to discover if there is a principle that guides you and use that as motivation and orientation (helping people, improving your community, becoming a better person, artistic expression, inner peace etc.)


I will try to not beat myself up about it. I have to practice patience more. I know I need to have a plan effectively and execute. Helping people to become better versions of themselves is what i've been doing. My disconnect is when trying to monetize my efforts. But I have to restrategize because I may be chasing the Cat instead of letting the Cat come to me organically. Once I figure out what the Cat wants, I will be happy.
 
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Bekit

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Talent is a myth. It persists for a few reasons:
  • We struggle to comprehend our potential in the medium - long term
  • It's a great excuse not to try
  • It appeals to religious epistemology

"talent" is really being highly skilled at something, which comes from:
  • Persistance
  • Doing things the right way
  • Asking the right questions
  • Having a go and seeing what happens
  • Supportive environment
You find that "talented" kids, were usually practising that skill continuously throughout their childhood, maybe without consciously realising or intending it.

There are a few books that look into the subject of talent - Bounce is a really good one. The Talent Code is another (although I haven't read that one). The conclusion from a lot of these books, which study several fields, is that...

... talented people do the work.

Talented people also appear "talented", because they suffer from expert amnesia. This is where they have programmed all the simple tasks that mere mortals struggle with, into their subconscious. For example, a lot of great (really great) guitar players believe vibrato technique is something you either have, or you don't have. They are so good at the technique, they struggle to consciously comprehend the individual elemetns of it. However, I can tell you for a fact they are wrong - give me any half-wit with a guitar and I can give them a great vibrato in about 6-10 weeks.

From my personal experience teaching, most people learn at the same sort of rate. What differs is:
  • practice time
  • attention to detail
  • time spent worrying if you did it right over just getting on with it
=====
Most "talented" people are, to put it in fastlane terms, people that enjoy the process, in an artistically creative field. They're good at painting, because they can sit for 10 hours a day painting.... every day.
Such an interesting topic.

OK so I have a bit of a nuance to add here.

You say "Talent is a myth" and that "it's a great excuse not to try," but that real talent comes from persistence and "doing the work."

But here's a curious case that sort of argues the opposite, and I'm curious how you'd classify this...

I was that child growing up who...just by being me, without trying, and DEFINITELY without working hard, caused everyone around me to spontaneously comment, "You're so talented."

Things that other children had to work hard at came effortlessly to me. I could play the piano. I could sing. I could draw. I could run faster than other kids. I excelled at academics. Everything I touched, I seemed to grasp instantly and effortlessly. The things I attempted, I was quickly able to do at a rare level. I was the child who unintentionally provoked so much envy among my peers that I developed the habit of pretending that things were difficult and purposely operating at a fraction of my potential, just so that I wouldn't stand out.

In other words, for me, "talent" was something I didn't ask for, didn't try to acquire, didn't work for, didn't intend to flaunt, and tried to hide it when I could.

Still, "talent" was a label that even complete strangers tended to attach to me after very limited exposure.

"Talent," for me, was an excuse TO TRY, because I knew I'd be good, I'd be praised, and I'd enjoy myself in the process.

On top of this, "talent" shielded me from ever having to do ANY work, because it didn't cost me any effort to gain skills. I never learned to work hard. Nothing ever taxed me.

By the time I had graduated from college, I came to the realization that in order to succeed in the real world, you HAVE to work hard. So in this respect, "talent" was far more a curse than a blessing.

If you've never developed the "working hard" muscle until you're a full-fledged adult, you are severely handicapped.

All the grit and hustle and perseverance that my peers were developing at age 8 and 12 and 17 due to the difficulty of their schoolwork? I skipped all that.

Only as an adult did I enter into a phase of remedial attention to try to develop all that mental toughness and work ethic so that I wouldn't be a miserable failure, but I think I am still waaaaaay behind where I would have been if I had had far less "talent" and far more persistence.

At this stage in my life, I see countless people ahead of me who have far less of that thing that people call "talent."

I also see countless others who the world considers (or considered) "talented and full of potential" who are floundering and meandering through life because their talent shielded them from anything ever costing them any WORK when they were young.

A few conclusions from my point of view...

A) There is a thing that people call "talent," but it is overrated - it's more likely to set you up for failure than success.

B) People who are NOT "talented" are more likely to develop skill through hard work, which will take them 100x farther than mere "talent" ever could.

C) If you look at a successful person and chalk their success up to "talent," you're almost certainly wrong. It probably wasn't "talent" that got them there, it was hard work.

D) If people label a child as "talented," it does short-term good and long-term harm (the child has wonderful self-esteem, but they're not set up to succeed in the real world).

E) If, in some rare instance, a person who is universally acclaimed as "talented" also develops an insane work ethic, THAT person will probably go much further than the person who is merely a hard worker with no talent. I think there is a real phenomenon where some people's "half-effort" is better than most people's "full effort." But in my experience, talent seems to work against the likelihood of a person developing a strong work ethic. The majority of talented people, myself included, seem content to put in "half" their potential and coast for the other half. This is a major flaw in my character that I am working on correcting.
 
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StrikingViper69

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Such an interesting topic.

OK so I have a bit of a nuance to add here.

You say "Talent is a myth" and that "it's a great excuse not to try," but that real talent comes from persistence and "doing the work."

.........

A few conclusions from my point of view...

A) There is a thing that people call "talent," but it is overrated - it's more likely to set you up for failure than success.

B) People who are NOT "talented" are more likely to develop skill through hard work, which will take them 100x farther than mere "talent" ever could.

C) If you look at a successful person and chalk their success up to "talent," you're almost certainly wrong. It probably wasn't "talent" that got them there, it was hard work.

D) If people label a child as "talented," it does short-term good and long-term harm (the child has wonderful self-esteem, but they're not set up to succeed in the real world).

E) If, in some rare instance, a person who is universally acclaimed as "talented" also develops an insane work ethic, THAT person will probably go much further than the person who is merely a hard worker with no talent. I think there is a real phenomenon where some people's "half-effort" is better than most people's "full effort." But in my experience, talent seems to work against the likelihood of a person developing a strong work ethic. The majority of talented people, myself included, seem content to put in "half" their potential and coast for the other half. This is a major flaw in my character that I am working on correcting.

So you may not have worked hard, but you would probably find that:
  1. The way you naturally played or interacted with your environment helped you work on skills
  2. You had good self esteem as a child, which meant you would "just try" things a lot more than other children
  3. You were more curious, asked better questions, took a smarter approach to exams, etc

If you read the Talent Myth and Bounce, you see the results of studies into talent. What you're giving me is anecdotal evidence - so, in the absence of a study, anecdotal evidence may be a direction to look for the answer, by itself it cannot be considered an answer. Recalling an anecdote does not disprove a study.

To answer your points (again these are covered in both books):
A) Talent doesn't set someone up for success or failure. Believing your talent is "divine revelation" (which is what we are talking about here), is what causes failure.
B) Talent can only be developed through work.
C) Same as B
D) Calling a child "talented" doesn't improve their self esteem - it makes them happy in the short term... not because they were called talented, but because they were praised. If you praise a child for working hard, instead of what they did (process vs result), they will be just as happy, AND they will have a process based approach re-enforced. Self Esteem is a reality based confidence in your ability to handle life and your identity. Destroying a childs ability to deal with reality by calling them talented does not increase their self esteem.
E) Contradiction. Talent comes from hard work. Again, you're describing an experience vs a study.


The idea of talent causes people to not pursue things in life that would make them happy and directly increases mediocrity in the world.
 

srodrigo

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I stumbled upon this term some years ago, and found a book that helped me a lot to understand me better in that regard.

"Refuse to choose" by Barbara Sher.

The downside of it is that you rarely monetize any of your skills, as specialists do. But once you recognize yourself as a generalist and accept that fact, you can become a better entrepreneur, or creative problem solver, or conector, or whatever.

... I love to be a generalist, but I cannot avoid to envy some specialists sometimes.

At least, I've found a passion where being a generalist is necessary. I'm into filmmaking lately and that allows me to learn a lot about so many topics without going out my way. As a good teacher of mine said "as a director, you have to be the second best in everything" :D

I guess the same applies to a lot of entrepreneurial endeavors.

Enviado desde mi MotoG3 mediante Tapatalk

Just started that book a few days ago. All I can say is that it describes me very well. I'm just at 20%, but I would probably already recommend it to anyone feeling like they've got so many interests and keep swapping them so frequently that don't achieve anything.

Now the question will be how to take advantage of this for entrepreneurship, as spending my free time on my million interests is great, but deep inside I still think I should break free from a day job.
 
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Now the question will be how to take advantage of this for entrepreneurship, as spending my free time on my million interests is great, but deep inside I still think I should break free from a day job.
That's the hard part if all your body and mind pulls you in the opposite direction. Being a generalist you may surround yourself with a lot of specialists. But anyway you have to say NO to a lot of things.

Which reminds me of the Ne cognitive function (Extraverted Intuition): An Introduction to the Cognitive Functions in Myers-Briggs® Theory - Psychology Junkie

In my case, I've struggled to keep any entrepreneurship endeavor that is too narrow on a topic. Currently, I'm learning and working as a filmmaker, which for me is general enough to keep my focus and interest, and trying to think in a Fastlane way about it.

Anyway, I'm far of being rich in monetary terms, but as a freelance marketer/web designer/videographer I can pay the bills working around 20 hours each month, and spend the rest of the time on what I love. I've lost a lot of ambition though.
 
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dgr

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@OP

Also, love your avatar ;D
I think the key here is to "apply that cross-domain knowledge into one specific domain".

Another good case to study is Scott Adams. Who was average in all the things he did, but combining them into ONE thing made him rich.

Edit: I wrote the answer before finishing reading the article, which also mentions Scott Adams :D
 
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JackieZ

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I think the key here is to "apply that cross-domain knowledge into one specific domain".

Another good case to study is Scott Adams. Who was average in all the things he did, but combining them into ONE thing made him rich.

Edit: I wrote the answer before finishing reading the article, which also mentions Scott Adams :D
Agree with the Scott Adams bit - when you add skills together it can greatly increase your chances of success.
 

srodrigo

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Finished "Refuse to choose" by Barbara Sher. Highly recommended. It describes different kinds of "multi interests people" and how to set structure and commitment for all of them to achieve happiness through a career and your projects/interests. I miss more entrepreneurial insights (apart from some examples), but I get that's not the focus of the book. I noticed that some of the people mentioned started businesses, so this kind of personality doesn't have to be a disadvantage if handled correctly.
 
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