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Vegan / Vegetarians Only (Chat about lifestyle, opportunities, food, whatever...)

MJ DeMarco

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Daniel Kogan

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I am currently living in Chiang Mai Thailand and make use of all the vegan, dairy and gluten free options here, resulting in less weight, more energy and less sleep needed. Plus you can outsource cooking, cleaning, laundry, driving etc. and live in apartments with pools/gyms included. Living in this kind of environment makes it so much easier to focus on more important things.
 

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WildHoneyTree

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The shift is very clear. Even I've gone plant based for a while. I'm considering ideas that can provide value for consumers in this space. Thinking more along the line of selling shovels in a gold rush. The obvious idea of a plant based food product seems too saturated..

Yes....I'm feeling that too. Any product has potential to be very easily and cheaply replicated...I think. Was doing juices, nutmilk based smoothies...It seems it's OK at the beginning but basing a whole product line around it and in a year or so..you will be drowning in the competition. Esp when involving perishable goods that can't ship or sit in stores...then you're stuck at the mom and pop level. May be emotionally satisfying but not really fastlane.
Lifestyle type expertise based seems more the way to go or
even your own vegan restaurant/ nutrition-fitness type business that can be franchised.
If into product maybe would be something with a long shelf life you could mass produce at cost advantage and supply to all these vegan restaurants/nutrition and lifestyle/ fitness coaches.
But yeah...I'm also brainstorming the selling shovels angle of this. I like product because I have my eye on agribizz but only immense value addition into a growing market could possibly make it fastlane. A little stumped honestly.
 

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Hey guys..

How do most of you feel about eggs? Ethically I think its wrong to eat dead animals- eggs are a tricky one. I have been going vegetarian- I haven't eaten meat, but I still eat eggs. I have one friend who says eggs are bad because of the way they treat chickens- forcing them to get pregnant over and over again until they fall down and die.

I've also heard that your technically eating a would-be baby chicken; an embryo.

And on the other hand I don't feel it's wrong because I'm not killing an animal. The chicken is not born, and wouldn't be born.. . I want to know your thoughts/opinions..
 
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Hai

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Hey guys..

How do most of you feel about eggs? Ethically I think its wrong to eat dead animals- eggs are a tricky one. I have been going vegetarian- I haven't eaten meat, but I still eat eggs. I have one friend who says eggs are bad because of the way they treat chickens- forcing them to get pregnant over and over again until they fall down and die.

I've also heard that your technically eating a would-be baby chicken; an embryo.

And on the other hand I don't feel it's wrong because I'm not killing an animal. The chicken is not born, and wouldn't be born.. . I want to know your thoughts/opinions..

Male baby chicken are shredded en masse, because they aren´t needed.
Still eat eggs, but feeling bad about it. I´m trying to get away from it as much as possible.
Chicken are enslaved to produce eggs, and killed when they don´t produce results. It´s still wrong ethically.
 

MJ DeMarco

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Reminder: This is a discussion for vegans/vegetarians (including "vegan whack jobs") -- it is NOT a place for you to dump your opinion and defend your murderous desire for flavor.
 

The-J

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So much opportunity in the vegan space. Oh man.

Right now the opportunity (like, the multi billion dollar opportunity + the Elon Musk type 'save the world' opportunity) seems to be in selling vegan stuff to non-vegans. Meat eaters. There's still some opportunity in selling vegan products to vegans but all you're doing is riding the 'full vegan adoption growth' at that point.

Vegan meals can be made tasty, cheap, very healthy, and most importantly: standardized.

This means that the space for a fast casual restaurant that JUST SO HAPPENS to be vegan is wiiide open. There are a few that exist mainly in cities like NYC. But the market is wide open and with a good enough offering + a little bit more waiting... it could be a hit.

Vegan is often synonymous with health conscious (ignore the fact that Oreos are vegan!) so the market adoption curve would look like "Vegans -> Healthy eaters -> Literally everyone else".

If I were to run this business, I would avoid association with organizations like PETA. I'd start it within the vegan community as a place to get a quick vegan bite, but I'd make sure that the advertising we do is not aimed at vegans. The WOM would mainly be focused on vegans though, see if I can get vegans to talk.

The most important thing is that the food would have to be good. Like, awesome. Like, rivalling a burger and fries awesome. No tofu burger bullshit. Basically if we could make the best falafel or whatever (hard to do in NYC) and make that palatable to people who eat meat (and don't regularly eat falafel), we could be on the road to success. Or doubles (look it up). Or some other awesome food that is vegan.

I'd make it pretty cheap. And I'd make it lean as hell. Ever been in a popular falafel restaurant? It's Muhammad and his two cousins Bilal and Azim. That's it. Even if there's a line stretching to the sidewalk.
 
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JohnBuffet

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What are your opinions about veganism and nutritional deficiencies including B12, iron, and zinc? I'ts very confusing as some feel you can't supplement b12 just by taking a pill as it doesn't get absorbed as well as B12 from meat.
 

The-J

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What are your opinions about veganism and nutritional deficiencies including B12, iron, and zinc? I'ts very confusing as some feel you can't supplement b12 just by taking a pill as it doesn't get absorbed as well as B12 from meat.

B12 is synthesized by bacillus bacteria. It cannot be made by any animal or plant. Humans, carnivores, and omnivores get B12 from meat, eggs, and fish. Herbivores get B12 from the soil that is all over the plants they eat (since they eat it from the ground and don't care).

If you could stomach it (I can't), you could eat natto (which is soybeans fermented with bacillus) or tempeh (fermented tofu) to get your B12. Laver seaweed also contains some B12. Foods fermented using bacillus bacteria should contain a fair bit of B12.

There's lots of food (even energy drinks, lol) that's fortified with vitamin B12. Many cereals are fortified with it (and lots of other vitamins and minerals).

It's true that B12 is more bioavailable from meat than it is from eggs, milk, fermented food, algae, and supplements. But fermented soy products, eaten in a large enough quantity, should give enough B12 needed. Shortfall should be made up with a supplement.

If you're a vegan living where fermented food is not common, then you'll need a supplement. Western diets don't contain a lot of fermented food.

Iron and zinc shouldn't be a problem with a balanced diet. Hell, you get iron from cooking in a cast iron pan (I'm not kidding).

tl;dr a vegan that knows what they're doing should not be deficient in any vitamin
 

MJ DeMarco

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JohnBuffet

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My last blood panel was not deficient in anything. In fact, my B12 was probably on the high end.

Really? That's great. How long have you not eaten meat for? That's very interesting. Any difference in energy levels or strength levels?
 

MJ DeMarco

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jon.M

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I've been lacto-ovo vegetarian for nearly a quarter now. The transition has not been challenging, but I suspect it's due to the fact I was already accustomed to the diet. Before the change I just didn't turn down meat when eating out et cetera. And then, being lacto-ovo is really laid back.

Have started to turn down dairy products, though. A week ago I had a taste of cheese and nearly threw up. Grossed me out. So I'll most likely go completely vegan within the next few months.

By the way, I just tried the most incredible meat substitute last night. It was this sort of frozen ground "meat" which you could shape to your own liking. With some Sweet Baby Ray's BBQ sauce and a few other seasonings, this stuff tasted exactly like a regular meat burger. Both in taste and texture.

meat.jpg
 
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MJ DeMarco

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So I'll most likely go completely vegan within the next few months.

Congrats.

You'll find it not too difficult.

With all the new companies springing up and offering some great alternatives, it has really has made the transition easy. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything...

And there is nothing like CRAVING this... (my dinner on Sunday)

IMG_0434.JPG

Instead of processed factory-farmed garbage.

And yes before anyone says it, there is protein there.
 

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any thoughts on the perspective of providing value for vegan consumers outside of a pure vegan food product?

This is something I thought about a long time ago. With the shift back towards eating more vegetables I think there will be an increase in people wanting to grow their own. However, most people don't have sufficient free land and if they do it won't necessarily be fertile etc

So I think it's possible people will turn to vertical farming. As far as I know at the moment it's mostly done on industrial scale but if you could bring this technology to consumers with a smaller scale retail offering I think it could have a chance.

Growing at home without land is limited to pot based stuff on any free window sill or space you can find. With vertical farming you could maybe convert your spare room into a little "grow room" and because they stack you get greater yield.
 

MTF

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I've been a vegetarian (lacto-ovo) for 10-11 years or so. My question for fellow vegetarians and vegans: how do you approach the fact that it's close to impossible to avoid animal-derived products in your everyday life?

You can avoid certain things, for example you don't have to buy leather shoes, but there are plenty of things that almost always have something derived from animals. If you want to buy a new car, even if the seats aren't leather, the steering wheel will probably be. If not the steering wheel, then gear stick or something else.

Another issue: if you're investing in public companies, unless they're a 100% vegan company (are there any?) it's impossible to know how much of your invested money is spent on products made from animals. Or even if you invest in, say, Facebook, a company with digital assets, they still buy non-vegan stuff for their offices (like leather chairs) and if they have cafeterias, non-vegan food (and there's also the fact that unethical companies make a lot of money thanks to Facebook's advertising platform).

You can quickly go crazy when you consider that no matter what you do, you still support killing animals in one way or another. I just tell myself that perfection is impossible. I can only minimize my impact as I'm not going to withdraw from the modern world.
 
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jon.M

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With all the new companies springing up and offering some great alternatives, it has really has made the transition easy. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything...
Nothing I miss out on. Actually I feel the opposite. You get to experience new flavours, products and cuisines that you otherwise wouldn't even consider.

You can quickly go crazy when you consider that no matter what you do, you still support killing animals in one way or another. I just tell myself that perfection is impossible. I can only minimize my impact as I'm not going to withdraw from the modern world.

I've asked a few vegans about this before, and they had a similar opinion to yours. When harvesting vegetables and plants, voles and other creatures can apparently die because of the machines that are used. It's sad. But what are you going to do - stop eating plant-based foods as well? Transform into a tree and survive on sunlight, water and CO2?

You do what you can and that's enough. At least that's what I think makes sense. Personally I'll remove all animal products in time and then I'll be good for the moment.
 

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Veganism benefits because it's rich in vegetables compared to Standard American Diet. High meat intake in the absence of vegetables is harmful, but it's the lack of vegetables that is most correlative (not the excess meat).

As for saturated fat conversation. First, there's a complete apples vs. oranges difference in metabolism of long-chain saturated fats vs. medium and short-chain saturated fats. This is ignored by academics and media alike. Additionally, the relationship of saturated fats and HDL is ignored. Saturated fats increase Total Cholesterol and LDL, but they increase HDL to a higher degree. This means better correlative risk markers like Total Cholesterol:HDL ratio, TriglycerideI:HDL ratio, etc IMPROVE with saturated fat intake.

If you look at atherosclerotic plaque, it is made up predominantly of Oxidized Polyunsaturated fats (think canola, soybean oil etc). The double bonds in UNsaturated fats make them unstable to metabolic stress from excess sugar, or from high-heat cooking, etc. They Oxidize, cause direct damage to vessel walls, which then starts the fatty streak and eventual evolution to "plaque" and atherosclerosis. The cholesterol is just a carrier of fat. Higher fat will lead to higher levels of cholesterol, just because cholesterol is what transports it around the blood! The stability of the fats determines if they become oxidized while being carried around by the cholesterol. "oxidized" fats act like ricocheting bullets in the body. Less double bonds (saturated or monounsaturated fats) and you get less oxidation and more stability. More double bonds (POLYunsaturated fats) you get more instability and oxidation = more heart disease/inflammation.

I can provide pubmed references to those who need.
 

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I wonder, if we didn't have the ethics problem we have today with the way we raise and kill animals, would this even be a subject of discussion?

I don't know, no meat doesn't sound natural to me.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I think it would still be a topic of discussion but framed as health benefits. Historically meat was a rare luxury(Though fish and bird was probably more prevalent) so we evolved to those conditions. Is it any wonder that high meat intake cultures have higher obesity rates?

A fish and plant based diet sounds more natural to me. Refrigeration and agriculture is more natural.
 
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MJ DeMarco

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OMG, incredibly delicious, these folks who made this stuff are going to be rich!

They taste like Cheetos, all organic, vegan, and a decent amount of protein and fiber.

A great snack, probably the healthiest you can get for a "snack" especially when your Jonesing for a crunch or a potato chip, even if you're aren't vegan.

Hippeas-Organic-Chickpea-Puffs-Gluten-Free-Vegan-White-Cheddar-850126007120.jpg
 

amp0193

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And yes before anyone says it, there is protein there.

Speaking of, I actually came to this thread to ask about protein.

I've been working out / rock climbing a lot, and want to be building muscle, but progress has been slow. I'm like 99% vegetarian. I think I need to be eating more in general, but also more protein, specifically. What should I be eating to get more protein?

Here's what I'm doing, but there's not much variety:

I throw some hemp seeds or protien powder into my morning green smoothie.
Protien powder + skim milk + plain yogurt + peanut butter + banana as my post-workout smoothie.
Snack on a Peanut butter sandwhich once or twice a day.
Eat a couple handfuls of mixed nuts.
Snack on a bowl of fruit/nut museli mixed with yogurt.
I'll add sunflower seeds to my salad at lunch.
Eat some eggs.
Eat a protien / energy bar pre-workout.
Plus whatever protein is in the vegetables/fruits I'm eating.

I'd happily cut the dairy from my diet, if I could replace it with something else high in protein.

In the last two months, I've cut way back on fruits, and upped the vegetables. My stomach has been handling it much better than when I posted earlier in the thread.

@Eskil Any tips on diet for a tall skinny guy putting on some muscle?
 
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Fox

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Great thread. Im planning on being on the vegan wagon in less than a month. I’ll keep you posted.
 
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MTF

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What should I be eating to get more protein?

How much protein do you get on a daily basis?

For years I used to follow the 1 gram per pound of lean body mass rule, but it was a chore because my diet had to revolve around protein (it's not that easy to get 150+ grams of protein a day) and there was little room for other healthy foods.

In the end, I don't think it's really that necessary to eat that much protein except maybe if you're a jacked up bodybuilder. It's been more than several months since I greatly reduced my protein intake (I'm a vegetarian and ate a lot of dairy and eggs to get protein, now I eat them much less frequently and in smaller quantities and instead eat more vegetables) and I haven't noticed any adverse effects (and I'm a rock climber, too).

And just to answer your question, here are a few good vegan sources of protein in addition to the ones you've already mentioned:
  • quinoa,
  • beans,
  • lentils,
  • spirulina (put it in your smoothies),
  • green peas.
 

Danny Sullivan

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@amp0193

digestion has always been a weakpoint the time i've been vegetarian. Two months after i went vegan it was much better and since i started steaming all my vegetables i rarely have any problems. But the biggest change to digestion was getting rid of of all milk related products.

Here are some foods i enjoy, which are quite high in protein:
Cooked Oatmeal + 550ml of water + 20g of flax & 20g of sesame seeds (crushed) + 1 apple and a big cup of frozen beeries and cherries.

Red, green or black lentils (160g) + 380ml of water, slowly cooked (they should take up all the water) + 3 cut tomatoes which i add into after the lentils are ready.

200g Soymilk + 60g spelt flakes (low sugar ones). Merely a snack.

We got some protein-breads in germany from a company called Mestemacher (25g protein / 100g) - those are really nice. Maybe you got something similar in the US?

Rice, potatoes or noodles with steamed vegies and a lot of beans and / or chickpeas, green peas.

Sounds weird, but a mixed salad with cashews is yummi.

How much protein do you want to take throughout a training day?

Hope this helps.
 
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Ascension

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Speaking of, I actually came to this thread to ask about protein.

MTF and Danny already sent some great replies, I would add that you'll probably see more success if don't focus on protein all that much or even at all.
The problem is that protein is extremely satiating, which is why high protein diets are easy to stick to for a lot of people, you simply don't get that hungry.
But this is the exact opposite of what you want, you want the calories, you want to get hungry. Chances are you need to eat way more calories to gain muscle than you think.
If you eat those and have at least some beans, lentils or grains in your diet I can practically guarantee you, you will get enough protein to build muscle
 

Jason "GrandK"

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This is NOT a thread to discuss your world-view on meat or veganism.

Personally, I don't have preference on veganism, vegetarianism or carnivore (paleo) lifestyles. I practiced veganism for a couple years and saw huge changes to my overall body and health for the better. I have since incorporated meat into my diet and I am currently the healthiest I have ever been having just recently gone through with an in-depth physical exam.

So, having gone the full spectrum from processed foods as a youth, to vegetarianism, to veganism and then to my current regimen of intermittent fasting, fat focused, no sugar lifestyle, my take away is that your eating preferences matter to the point that you limit processed foods, hydrogenated oils and sugars.

Anyway, I present the following video that is in defense of red meat as evidence that the vegan/vegetarianism movement is here to stay as the mainstream continues to promote it as the "healthy diet", vilifying the consumption of meat products, particularly red meat.

View: https://youtu.be/1rz-8H_i1wA


Although the creator of this video is supporting red meat, I believe the video demonstrates that there is a huge push among academics and media for limiting or removing red meat completely from your diet and instead moving towards a plant based diet.

All this to say, I believe the vegan movement is a great area to look at for business opportunities. Particularly if you can create a brand of products that abstain from the use of sugars and hydrogenated seed oils. The market lacks a good "snack" alternative that does not contain these harmful ingredients and anyone that can create such a healthy snack would most likely strike it rich.

Another business opportunity would be a blog that focuses on top 10 lists for the various foods available. Top 10 healthiest vegan snacks without sugar, Top 10 vegan meals with no hydrogenated oils, Top 10 Vegan Restaurants Near You, etc. Then you can create affiliate links to each of the items listed.
 

amp0193

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And just to answer your question, here are a few good vegan sources of protein in addition to the ones you've already mentioned:
  • quinoa,
  • beans,
  • lentils,
  • spirulina (put it in your smoothies),
  • green peas.

Awesome, thanks. I always forget about beans for some reason. I had no idea quinoa and lentils had that much... that really helps!
 
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amp0193

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@amp0193
Two months after i went vegan it was much better and since i started steaming all my vegetables i rarely have any problems.

That's a good idea actually. When I went "cold turkey" it was mountains of raw stuff, and lots of fruits, and it almost destroyed me.

Here are some foods i enjoy, which are quite high in protein:
Cooked Oatmeal + 550ml of water + 20g of flax & 20g of sesame seeds (crushed) + 1 apple and a big cup of frozen beeries and cherries.

Red, green or black lentils (160g) + 380ml of water, slowly cooked (they should take up all the water) + 3 cut tomatoes which i add into after the lentils are ready.

200g Soymilk + 60g spelt flakes (low sugar ones). Merely a snack.

We got some protein-breads in germany from a company called Mestemacher (25g protein / 100g) - those are really nice. Maybe you got something similar in the US?

Rice, potatoes or noodles with steamed vegies and a lot of beans and / or chickpeas, green peas.

Sounds weird, but a mixed salad with cashews is yummi.

Those are all really good ideas to mix up my diet. That oatmeal sounds delicious!

How much protein do you want to take throughout a training day?

I don't really know. I should probably figure that out.
 

amp0193

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Chances are you need to eat way more calories to gain muscle than you think.

This is kind of what I'm thinking as well. Just eating more, in general.
 

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