Web 3.0 (Ethereum) is happening, and most people have no idea what it even is.

[Raoul Duke]

Isn't this really though an investment in BitCoin? The prices seems to have a Beta of 1 and higher, high correlation. If BTC is down 10%, you can expect ETH to be down 10% or more.

Is BTC like buying the XLE ETF, while ETH is like buying Exxon Mobil, an XLE constituent? They are interlinked.

Basically I'm asking, will there ever be a time where BTC is down 10%, but ETH is up 10%?

I know nothing about Bitcoin or Ethereum. Take this article with a grain of salt.

Ethereum Forecast To Surpass Bitcoin By 2018 | Zero Hedge

 

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[juan917]

Isn't this really though an investment in BitCoin? The prices seems to have a Beta of 1 and higher, high correlation. If BTC is down 10%, you can expect ETH to be down 10% or more.

Is BTC like buying the XLE ETF, while ETH is like buying Exxon Mobil, an XLE constituent? They are interlinked.

Basically I'm asking, will there ever be a time where BTC is down 10%, but ETH is up 10%?

Although they may correlate in price increase/decrease historically, at the end of the day they are completely different platforms so yes very possible.

 

[juan917]

My take is that because BTC is essentially the currency by which all the other coins are measured

This is usually the case but not always. Some coins are measured against Ethereum on certain exchanges.

 

[Xavier X]

Why would you BTC at $100 to be a good purchase? Clearly, if the value of any currency drops 97%, it's safe to say that that currency is unlikely to recover. I'd say that if BTC ever gets back to $100, it's almost certain that it will continue far lower...

Considering these things are predicated more on human reaction than true value, it's hard to say.

It's unlikely it will bounce back in that scenario, but not impossible, as it's happened before (albeit less dramatically).
BTC went from ~$1k late 2013 to ~$214 late 2014 through much of 2015 (I had BTC through this time).

That represents over 78% loss in value, but wasn't a nail in the coffin.

That said, I get your point though.

 

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[ddzc]

I have no idea about any of this, but definitely need to start learning.

You know this is getting serious when this is spotted at your local convenience store.

 

[Xavier X]

I have no idea about any of this, but definitely need to start learning.

You know this is getting serious when this is spotted at your local convenience store.

I'm surprised there aren't more of them yet. We had two Bitcoin ATMs in Boston, in 2014.
They were one of the first in the country.

They had somewhat limited functionality though, in the sense you could only create a wallet and buy BTC on them then.

 

[Yashar]

Learned about Ethereum by reading this thread and additionally did my own research and the whole thing sounds amazing to me.

For anyone who does not understand:

 

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[parkerscott]

Learned about Ethereum by reading this thread and additionally did my own research and the whole thing sounds amazing to me.

For anyone who does not understand:

I have tried to explain it this way to my mom. Her eyes still glazed over.

 

[MarekvBeek]

Learned about Ethereum by reading this thread and additionally did my own research and the whole thing sounds amazing to me.

For anyone who does not understand:

Amazing! Now I have something for my mom

 

[masterneme]

Now I understand why some people insisted in that Ethereum is going to be what drives the IoT...

Let me show graphically why it won't:



We have 2 washing machines (A and B) using 2 different routes. Both have an IPv6 address and Wi-Fi.

*Let's say you want to contact the repairman:

-Machine A will use its built in OS to send an automated email through Internet that will be received on the other side through an email Web Service.

-Machine B will send the message to the Internet which will enter the Ethereum Network where someone has developed an app to process it which will have to be spread over the Ethereum Network back to the Internet again. Now how does Mr. Repairman gets the message?:

a)He has regular email. In this case someone has to develop a way to translate that message into an email. It can be that the app itself does it or that a Web Service connects to the Ethereum Network, retrieves and redirect messages regularly.
b)Someone developed a client app that will connect through Internet to the Ethereum Network and retrieve all messages directed to him.

The Internet of Things doesn't need anything else than what we already have.

Using Ethereum doesn't only NOT offer any advantage but it adds extra unnecessary layers of complexity and developing time. And all of this without taking into account that if there are not enough nodes the (Ethereum) network becomes slow and its processing power diminishes.

Why would Samsung make their developers use route B? It doesn't make any sense, just because you can do something it doesn't mean that you should.

Now substitute IoT for whatever other thing to see that blockchains are only useful for a handful of tasks, the main benefit of decentralization comes with many unsolvable weaknesses.

I've already listed all those weaknesses too many times so I won't repeat them again.

 

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[Yashar]

I have tried to explain it this way to my mom. Her eyes still glazed over.

Thank you for sharing this here. I'm looking for a project I can work on and I'm considering learning Solidity so I can create something useful. Do you know any place (forum or something) where I can find a good idea? You don't want to share your own ideas obviously but maybe there is some where you can get different types of "inspiration"?

 

[Coalission]

 

[Coalission]

Why would Samsung make their developers use route B? It doesn't make any sense, just because you can do something it doesn't mean that you should.

Considering Samsung was working on this IoT washing machine scenario with IBM almost 3 years ago using Ethereum, and later joined the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance, you can ask them why they would.

In this live demonstration filmed at International CES 2015, researchers deploy three protocols to empower its vision of The Internet of Things — Telehash for messaging, BitTorrent for file-sharing, and Ethereum for smart contracts.

So I assume for your unsolvable emailing problem, they were using Telehash at that time, not sure where they are now. You have to understand that for something to change the world, it doesn't have to change every individual thing in it. The internet was revolutionary, but people still meet in person, offline business still exists, postal mail still exists, and some things are simply better to do without the internet.

 

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[steelandchrome]

Just curious if anyone has looked at dragonchain? Apparently started at Disney by a group and now up for open ICO specifically targeted at business adoption and multi currency usage. It is referenced everywhere as being owned by Disney which would be huge IMO but I don't see them come straight out anywhere and say that... anyways, open to US investors if anyone is interested. www.dragonchain.com

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[baltais]

Made a couple of short videos on what is Bitcoin and Blockchain.
Hope that they will help for those who don't have basic knowledge on what both of these things are. No selling or affiliate links or anything like that. Made these just for fun and to freshen up my video making skills.

 

[Coalission]

Today at 5pm EST:

 

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[HackVenture]

Phew! Just finished reading this entire thread from start to end, watched it evolve from a discussion of ETH as a technology to crypto investment towards the end. I'll be following this over to the inside; I just realize that I've paid for the subscription for a few years without visiting much at all and I've got a strong feeling I'll recoup the costs in the next few hours.

I just wanted to give my 2 satoshis about my thoughts after going through this entire thread.

I've learnt that it's very important to not dismiss something because it's "nothing new". "Nothing new" doesn't mean something will not get adopted. I once tried to secure some funding for a project back when I was a student and had to get past this gatekeeper as an administrator who kept trying to put me down by saying my idea was "nothing new" and FB already "did everything I want my app to do" yada yada. Which is why he was working as an administrator and not an entrepreneur.

Of course there is a ton of hype surrounding cryptos. But the hype = scam theory is way too superficial, and there is always a reason for the hype. Yeah dotcom boom ended up in a disaster but still, look how far we've come.

Nobody is here to convince anybody to "go buy btc/eth/whatever". Do your own due diligence, but know that cryptos has the potential to deliver VERY asymmetric returns.

As intelligent and street-smart human beings, make your own decisions, nobody here is obliged to "convince" you about where to put your money.

Bonus: My biggest lol came from the declaration of "I have just discovered the Achilles heel of blockchain." followed by a series of obvious weaknesses that everyone who's slightly knowledgeable about crypto knows about.. Did the first mobile phone in the world launch with full HD color, messaging capabilities, the ability to surf the net, give directions, summon a car, video call a loved one, and catch pokemons?

No, the first mobile one allowed you to make phone calls.. SOME times.. Expensively.. With bad call quality.. And the phone itself costs a bomb.

Iteration baby. Nothing revolutionary comes packaged in a beautiful box with ribbons on the outside.

Exciting times, can't wait to come back to this thread in 5 years' time and revisiting everyone's arguments when everything is clear as day.

Granted, the possible application are more complicated than my puny brain allows me to fully understand, and sure, there are many of us here with way-less puny brains but to say what someone said was "completely false" is really, really annoying to see.

It's been said many times that the blockchain has many many possibilities beyond as currencies. My take is if any crypto ever gets adopted as a currnecy, it will most likely be government-backed. Which goes against the political reasons of BTC's beginnings but just some of the properties of blockchain will already result in a much-improved state of currencies in the world. A government-backed blockchain currency will look VERY different from BTC but I believe it will arrive, and really soon.

 

[j324us]

Thank you for sharing this here. I'm looking for a project I can work on and I'm considering learning Solidity so I can create something useful. Do you know any place (forum or something) where I can find a good idea? You don't want to share your own ideas obviously but maybe there is some where you can get different types of "inspiration"?

Hi Yashar,

I'm glad to share my idea here. Wanted to post it on TFLF to get some feedback but didn't want to start a new thread to not come across as spammy.

Our project is Monero-related, but might still be an inspiration. I think that there are so many opportunities coming with the blockhain technology and not even half of the potential is utilized.

Feel free to check it out: https://www.inwemo.com

Any feedback is appreciated!

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Seems to be some divergence in ETHER and BTC with BTC moving ahead (nearly $6K but Ether still muddling around $300), anyone speculate why? I would have expected the divergence to be toward ETH, isn't that were all the technology hoopla is centered?

 

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[JDx]

Seems to be some divergence in ETHER and BTC with BTC moving ahead (nearly $6K but Ether still muddling around $300), anyone speculate why? I would have expected the divergence to be toward ETH, isn't that were all the technology hoopla is centered?

I guessed that because of the upcoming BTC fork (to bitcoin gold or something) people are getting in on BTC ; when the fork happens, you keep your BTC and get that amount in the new fork currency. (not sure if that is 100% right, please correct me if i'm wrong). So, if bitcoin gold does any good and rise a bit in value, that's free money baby.

Then again, the increase has been so significant i'm not sure that's whats going on anymore...

 

[Jane S.]

Does anyone have any method of purchasing eth with cash or anonymously like bitcoin atm ?

 

[Yashar]

Does anyone have any method of purchasing eth with cash or anonymously like bitcoin atm ?

Coinbase - Buy/Sell Digital Currency

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I saw a graphic today on all the "big wigs" in the financial industry (Dimon, El-Erian, et. al.) who are all calling Crypto stuff a scam, the "next Enron."

All of these individuals who are making these statements have made BILLIONS in the traditional financial system.

Not withstanding my general lack of knowledge on the technology, this fact alone that the mainstream shills of the financial system are against it leads me to believe it's more legit than fad/scam/trend.

When something new is emerging, it's always interesting to note the most vocal critics, who they are, what institutions they represent, and what they stand to possibly win/lose.

When Jamie Dimon is crucifying and laughing at it, that doesn't make me skeptical of the tech/currency; only the opposite, it gives CREDIBILITY to the whole thing and makes me want to investigate further.

TLDR:The more big bankers and Fed types who speak out against this, the more credible it makes it seem, kinda like "horse and buggy" providers screaming from the pulpit "People people! The automobile is a just a fad!"

At this point, I'm really interested in watching the two parties duke it out and see how it unfolds. The problem is, the big bankers tend to have government (the ultimate f*cksters on economics) on their side.

 

[James Fake]

At this point, I'm really interested in watching the two parties duke it out and see how it unfolds. The problem is, the big bankers tend to have government (the ultimate f*cksters on economics) on their side.

Agreed. I think Crypto is the real deal.. I do think government is going to step in and Crypto's momentum will take a hit, but by then it should have gained early-majority real-world use.... so the market will have enough juice to push back and like with everything else... the market always wins.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

@JScott -- question, I think I heard you say in some other thread that you hold ZERO bitcoin, but only ETHER related stuff.

Can I basically assume you are looking at these two things as if BitCoin will become MySpace (the first but won't last) while Ether (after) will be Facebook?

 

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[steelandchrome]

I hold Bitcoin and Ether and have had way better returns on Bitcoin but I have longer term faith in Ethereum and its use cases so hold 3x as much there. Bitcoin is for wealth storage and payments only at this point and has the major branding and first to market reputation. Ethereum is both of the above as far as uses as well as smart contracts and is a platform that you could basically code around anything you can imagine. I don't think bitcoin will ever go away like myspace vs facebook but will coexist and at some point ETH will overtake market cap as people get more into the tech and use cases of it vs the speculation aspect.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[steelandchrome]

I hold Bitcoin and Ether and have had way better returns on Bitcoin but I have longer term faith in Ethereum and its use cases so hold 3x as much there. Bitcoin is for wealth storage and payments only at this point and has the major branding and first to market reputation. Ethereum is both of the above as far as uses as well as smart contracts and is a platform that you could basically code around anything you can imagine. I don't think bitcoin will ever go away like myspace vs facebook but will coexist and at some point ETH will overtake market cap as people get more into the tech and use cases of it vs the speculation aspect.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TDGq4aeevgY


Short video with some quick thoughts on differences.

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[c4n]

What many people (including those investing into ETH) don't understand is that Ether is not a currency.

Unlike BTC, ETH is not meant to be used in random purchases; it wasn't built to be taken into a store and used to pay for milk. ETH is mean to be used to pay for computation power; for App developers and for users using/accessing smart contracts. Comparing BTC to ETH is kind of like comparing apples to oranges.

From the official website:

Who needs ether?
Developers who intend to build apps that will use the ethereum blockchain. Users who want to access and interact with smart contracts on the ethereum blockchain.

...

Ether is to be treated as "crypto-fuel", a token whose purpose is to pay for computation, and is not intended to be used as or considered a currency, asset, share or anything else.

 

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[maiko]

I've read some interesting points of view in this thread.
Thx to all contributors!

With all the forks coming and the speed of the technology evolving i find it very hard to make any predictions.
While BTC and ETH are both build for different usage as @c4n says, there's other crypto's joining and trying to gain momentum all the time.

- There's NEO, the Chinese open source blockchain for smart contracts.
If the Chinese ban ETH and pump NEO i wonder how ETH will survive?

- There's VERI, which want to lay of brokerages and start digital asset exchanges.
If some big stock exchanges start using VERI, this can cause some serious ripples.

- There's SALT, the platform that gives fiat loans with your crypto asset as a security.
While more people get into crypto's, SALT could be a serious game changer in the loans business.
... and many many more

 

[Coalission]

When something new is emerging, it's always interesting to note the most vocal critics, who they are, what institutions they represent, and what they stand to possibly win/lose.

When Jamie Dimon is crucifying and laughing at it, that doesn't make me skeptical of the tech/currency; only the opposite, it gives CREDIBILITY to the whole thing and makes me want to investigate further.