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Billionaires Explaining To You Why A College Degree Is Useless

Iammelissamoore

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What I have gathered from this video highlights the perspective from the respective interviewees that they felt as if they wasted time going to College/University, because they believed in some way, they were cheated time, while studying for their degrees - that they believe is of no use to them.

I believe the University experience is some what like a mirage - from a particular distance it looks a specific way, promising many positive outcomes and experiences, until one actually reaches the inside and recognizes it isn’t holistically cracked up to what it is marketed to be.

Universities existed since the ancient days in many parts of the world; however, the sole purpose and process of teaching/learning wasn’t for the same purpose of what is serves as today. Of course, tertiary education has evolved in different ways.

People attend university for different reasons; for some, it's in hopes of landing their dream job; for others, it's because of the threat placed on them by their families; it’s a means to an end for some; and it serves others as a productive way to “grow up” while constructively being occupied.

I checked out a video by Dr. Howard Gardner - a Developmental Psychologist who pays attention to the way we process information, in which he identified 8 major types of intelligence of which our education/political systems do not always offer room for, as some industries are naturally deemed more important than others according to script.


I dropped out of university, I was generally never a fan of school, why? The delivery methods made me feel excluded; if a classroom has as little as 5 students, chances are all 5 students will respond differently based on specific teaching methods used. Surely I made attempts here and there to pass tests for the sake of passing; however, when I went to uni, I further observed a lot of my lecturers - the people who were well educated with their Degrees, were having difficult financial issues, as most of them juggled 2 and 3 jobs to keep their lives afloat. They weren’t teaching because they loved educating future leaders, they taught us because it was another pay cheque which came with the degrees they spent time obtaining.

While a lot of Millionaires/Billionaires and other professionals in the world graduated with their degrees, it doesn’t specifically prove they all came out hopping, skipping and jumping with straight A’s; also, while there is specific criteria to get into university, if one is well connected, one's grades may not necessarily be used as the basis for admission.

While university has drastically changed over the centuries, the question we should be asking, is not only if tertiary education is important, but more so, how can it evolve to ensure each individual utilizing it’s system isn’t left behind? Given this is the intended purpose it is offered. Like great tools, once utilized well, tertiary education will be beneficial to many - as we see, there are very successful people who have aligned wealth on the solid foundation gained from their tertiary education; however when the tools of education are misused - it can be detrimental. Look at how many students become indebted to the govt because of student loans. The general belief that university is guaranteed to equip us with better jobs or better positions no longer qualify as a general purpose, especially due to the economic situation it can create. Is the current system of education meant to keep as much individuals possible enslaved to this fiat system? If this is not the case, then why aren’t our education systems ensuring and promoting a 100% success rate while attacking the debt issue holistically?

A lot of forum members question their purpose at University - should they stay or should they leave? This is a question that only the individual can determine the answer, as it all depends on what your intended outcome is. For you who are in university or considering to attend, know that you CAN get ahead with your degree, you MUST ensure you use every opportunity to learn a lot about the world around you; network and build positive relationships which can assist you in future in addition to what you learn in the classroom. Read a whole lot, read for the sake of knowing and overstanding beyond what you are being told. Keep evolving yourself by staying abreast with the technology around you; and most importantly, in the midst of gaining your tertiary education, always ensure you jump at the opportunity to learn by getting your hands dirty, assist friends/family with business ventures, absorb as much as you can, so, by the time you graduate with your degree, you have a wealth of knowledge and experience which will facilitate you getting ahead.
 
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biophase

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It's also like Kobe and Lebron and Garnett going straight from high school to the NBA. If they went to college, they would have found out in that 1 year that college was holding them back. I am willing to bet that Gates and Zuckerberg were feeling the same way sitting in classes wondering why they were competing in the minor leagues.

But with that said, if college was say 1/4 the price, I don't think we would be having this conversation. It all comes down to ROI and with Google and Youtube around, the ROI of college is really bad.

Lastly, college is so general, and what we need are specific honed skills. To get my engineering degree, I needed to take liberal arts classes. I wanted to take more engineering classes, but that's not how it goes. So I took, Music, Rhetoric, Weight Training, Asian Mythology, Basketball, Classic Civilization. Ironically, I almost failed Classic civilization which would have caused me to not graduate. (yes, I found my transcript and diploma for this post)

Looking back at this now, I wonder if anyone would sign up for Classic Civ if it weren't required. Is this just a way for colleges to squeeze more classes out of you?

Imagine Kobe and Lebron having to sit through a college class about Chemistry when they really should be shooting 200 jumpers. That time sitting in chemistry class is literally costing them millions.

BTW, when I was in college, tuition was $6k a year and starting salary was $35k.
 

SirPsychoSexy

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Ok, we have the testimonials from two IT genius who became insanely rich after dropping an Elite college, can we now have the testimonials of all the guys who dropped college and failed miserably in their ventures? My point is, I don't trust guys with survivor bias.
 

ApparentHorizon

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Ok, we have the testimonials from two IT genius who became insanely rich after dropping an Elite college, can we now have the testimonials of all the guys who dropped college and failed miserably in their ventures? My point is, I don't trust guys with survivor bias.

Correct me if I'm wrong: Zucks started his biz in college, and leveraged connections within to gain funding. Gates resold DOS while in college.

Both validated their markets first

It's not like they dropped out, and were like..."ok now time to start a biz..."
 
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ZF Lee

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Yuck.

I hope I don't find myself in a room with stiffs like that.
Society adores such academically talented folks because the mainstream society isn't really into hard work.
I would me more repulsed by their lack of comprehension of the hard work needed to be put into getting good grades or scholarships, Slowlane aside.

Heroes are created when society thinks that hard work and consistent action are no more than mythical weapons of the elite lol

And on STEM degrees being some of the better degrees, they might not be what they used to be, too. Not really in cost, but quality. I read that a C-student in engineering from the 1990s can beat an A-student today. While I don't have empirical evidence for it, these days, I found enough past year paper websites for engineering courses to confirm that STEM students do more paperwork than prep themselves to do serious real stuff.

Correct me if I'm wrong: Zucks started his biz in college, and leveraged connections within to gain funding. Gates resold DOS while in college.

Both validated their markets first

It's not like they dropped out, and were like..."ok now time to start a biz..."
The SCRIPT has an even worse rate of survivor bias.
Reminds me of this:
Notable! - Successful Slowlaner Rebukes Fastlane (My Response...)

But by all means, @SirPsychoSexy , do watch out for the survivor biases. Not everything is gold. Both business and getting into Ivy Leagues require process and execution...and both are good achievements.
 
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eliquid

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While I am personally against college, I'm not against those that go for X reason.

Ironically, my largest consulting clients are colleges and universities for my paid advertising services. I handle PPC and media buys day in and day out for up to 50+ universities at any given time. I get to see admissions, enrollment, onboarding, etc on a whole different level than most. I find tons of different reasons why people want to go to college. Some good, a lot bad.

My kids have been asking me about their college futures and I told them I would like them to do something different out of high school than go to college and that I would not pay for college unless they first:
  1. Learn a trade - So that if something happens in their future, they have something to fall back on. In "showing" them as their father, I'm looking to learn coppersmithing ( hey @Andy Black , I might need your blacksmithing ads help.. lol, j/k ) or gunsmithing as a hobby so they see me doing it as well.

  2. Run a small or side business of their own - So they learn about business, independence, exchanging money for value instead of time, etc. Maybe the business they run is related to their trade above. I'd like for them to come into my digital business, but if they want to follow what they love ( one really loves photography and calligraphy ), I'm cool with that too of course.

  3. Work a really shitty job, hopefully with a shitty boss - As a parent, I don't wish anything shitty on my kids, but I want them to know what it's like to work in the heavy cold/wet snow all day, be tired and exhausted, get paid almost nothing for their efforts, and have to deal with a shitty boss breathing down their neck over anything they do. Or work within an office and deal with office politics, people stealing your lunch, layoffs, and other office crap.

  4. I haven't made this a requirement yet, but I'm thinking of having them travel the world for 6-12 months working in different cities and countries on their own. They can possibly use their trade to make their living while traveling, or run into the "shitty" jobs part while traveling. I want them to experience something many others don't and gain confidence of traveling on their own to other areas unknown to them. Right now they travel with me and mom, so the burden of everything falls on me and they just "enjoy" the trip. I'd like to turn that around on them once they get old enough.

If they can do all that, and they still want to go to college.. I'll pay for them to get a degree.

The reason is, if after all that they still want the degree.. it's going to be because they truly want to have it for X reason. Not because some sheeple told them they needed to have it.

What's cool is we currently homeschool our kids. I can basically teach them a lot of this upfront since I get to decide the curriculum. Meaning, I get to decide if they learn about "Entrepreneurship" this year and "Nomadic Traveling" next year. Maybe a class on business financials or options trading. Granted, I only get 1 class a year I get to decide for them since they still have to follow state regulations too.. but its a good jump start.

.
 
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SirPsychoSexy

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Correct me if I'm wrong: Zucks started his biz in college, and leveraged connections within to gain funding. Gates resold DOS while in college.

Both validated their markets first

It's not like they dropped out, and were like..."ok now time to start a biz..."

They leveraged opportunities offered in college. College isn't just about learning, it's also a networking platform and a launching pad. I'm not advocating going to college, but I don't want to shit on higher education for the wrong reasons. Also, I'm from EU. In France, you can go to good public universities for less than a thousand per year.
 

Iammelissamoore

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While I understand it, I do find it ironic. If a world-class athlete shows off his skills (and is confident in the process), he is praised and adored. If a world-class musician shows off his skills (and is confident in the process), he will likely become wealthy and famous. But, if a world-class scientist or researcher shows off his skills (and is confident in the process), he is label "elitist."

Education has become politicized in this county, which is bad for everyone.

In 20 years, when the US is likely no longer the most prosperous country in the world, the simple reason will be our lack of reverence and respect for education and those who pursue it.

Just my not-so-humble opinion (and proud to not be humble about it)...

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutelyyyyyyyyy agree, in the video I mentioned called "8 types of Intelligence" by Dr. Howard Gardner, he explains this same ideal and for every thinkable industry, regardless of how the general public sees it, he saw it as an important aspect of intelligence.

I see the non-necessity of having a degree, but, at the same time, I see the possibility of being successful as a result of having one - as it's not just about 'having' the degree, but more the process and disciplined involved in obtaining one, as indeed it's a personal decision, but, what I really think have more or less made me stand on the side of the non-necessity of having one is because, it is possible for people to be successful in any industry, the problem is some, unfortunately, will always be seen more important than others.

Here's the clip of the vid if you wish to view:
 

amp0193

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Ok, we have the testimonials from two IT genius who became insanely rich after dropping an Elite college, can we now have the testimonials of all the guys who dropped college and failed miserably in their ventures? My point is, I don't trust guys with survivor bias.

Literally anyone who has had any kind of success is a survivor bias, because there are many who tried that path and also failed at it.

Dropped out of college, became a billionaire? Survivor bias.

Stayed in college got a 50k/year salary job? Survivor bias.

Got a job, any job? Survivor bias.
 
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SquatchMan

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Ok, we have the testimonials from two IT genius who became insanely rich after dropping an Elite college, can we now have the testimonials of all the guys who dropped college and failed miserably in their ventures? My point is, I don't trust guys with survivor bias.

Your point?

Obviously there are gonna be more failures than successes.

I don't plan on being a failure, though I have failed before (and probably will again), so I find the stats about failures irrelevant.
 

ZF Lee

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Literally anyone who has had any kind of success is a survivor bias, because there are many who tried that path and also failed at it.

Dropped out of college, became a billionaire? Survivor bias.

Stayed in college got a 50k/year salary job? Survivor bias.

Got a job, any job? Survivor bias.
Joined a business forum? Survivor bias.

Read a book? survivor bias.

Cleared debt? No debt? Survivor bias.

So I guess we are all under the survivor bias hehehe
IMO, if the greatest failure in the world is not trying, then of course there would be more failures than successes. So many just don't even give a shot at things that could change their lives.

Thus the existence of he survivor bias.
 

SirPsychoSexy

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My point is: you have to take in account the stakes and the probability when dropping college. For one F*cker who hits the jackpot playing a slots game, it means there are at least a thousand who lost their pant trying to win it. The guy who won will tell you that playing slots is a rational way to earn your living. That's survivor bias, alright? The system is rigged against the rogues who decide to take the unknown road. Going fastlane is a state of mind, not a career choice. Doing what you call slowlane, meaning getting a job for a time to acquire skills and build a network, can be fastlane if the end goal is to leverage these perks to overcome a high entry barrier when creating a business. Good luck building a next-level AI when you spent your time coding wordpress website and python bot in your garage. To do that on your own is genius-smart level.

EDIT: Once again, I'm aware that tuition fees in the US are off-the-roof. I respect opinions that say it is too high and that it is a valid reason not to go.
 
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Yoda

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First, let me just say I'm in agreement with college not being "worth it" anymore, financially speaking. Period.

Now, to really dig into conversational points, there are several *exceptions* which hold true, and would likely continue to do so:
  1. The major matters. You can't tell me a computer science degree isn't more valuable (financially speaking) than a fine arts degree, on the whole. Accounting, law, finance, computer science, and medical will almost always yield more than fine arts, psychology, sociology, biology (strict), or other "general studies" type of major, on the whole.
  2. The time period matters. As it's been stated several times in this thread, the super dated studies are super useless when speaking about today's numbers. This doesn't mean they are useless entirely, as they matter for the time period they represent. However, a better use of judgement would be looking at top earner's under the age of 35-40 and their degrees. This would much more closely represents our current graduating classes.
  3. Cost is not net cost. Studies often spew tuition costs straight from a website, when, many times, students (especially the hardest working, most intelligent) get assistance through grants, scholarships, etc. to help pay. I went to a school which, on paper, would have been over 100k. I walked with less than 20k in loans. No, I did not pay 80k out my pocket (nor did my parents). The only types of financial assistance I qualified for would have been available to the majority.
  4. College is not classes. I honestly don't believe I learned much in college, educationally (which is very scary, given what my degree would allow me to do, had I chosen to actually use it). However, for real life, I learned a shit ton.
Another point, which is likely founded though I will say only loosely, is the fact many students get a degree, then never use it. I am one of them.

I don't plan to set aside any money for my kids for college. Not because I don't value education (I very much do) or the experience of college (even moreso), but because:
  • it's not my decision, and I don't want my kids to feel as though they are "expected" to attend
  • it's a poor use of financial tools, especially for an entrepreneur who can deploy capital for real time growth
  • if my child decides to go, I want them to look at the costs, face-to-face, and understand the risks/rewards without a parachute
 

Carol Jones

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I think you guys are missing the point.

The conversation in this thread is using statistics from 40 years ago to calculate whether college is worth it. Senators, Congressman, CEO's, Forbes powerful men... the average person on that list went to college 40 years ago.

The main takeaway I got from the video is that college is no longer worth it. It's a financial decision and today it's not worth investing in.

c61b36585.jpg


The cost of college has more than tripled in that time. Doesn't sound like a lot, but it adds a lot of debt:

OB-XN315_Number_E_20130517184849.jpg


And earnings haven't really increased:

nyfed_college_worth_it_2.jpg.CROP.promovar-mediumlarge.jpg



Back in the old days, people could work in the summers and pay off their college tuitions:

weeksoffulltimework_1.png


Now, you're pretty much F*cked.

The reason I shared the video is because I thought it provided a good thought pattern on why college is not worth it anymore as an investment TODAY. Yeah, it might have been worth it 40 years ago, but today the numbers have changed completely.

Good morning @AgainstAllOdds from rural Australia,

I agree with you.

Skills are now more important than ever. And universities don't teach skills. Unless you're going to be a doctor. Or a scientist. Or a lawyer.

I have three university degrees. None of which prepared me for what I'm doing today.

I've spent the last 10 years doing online courses to improve my skills in internet marketing. Understanding Google Analytics. Email marketing. Cold Calling. My list of courses completed is very long. And I supplement the gaps with books. Books. Books.

The business environment changes at such a rapid rate, universities with their stodgy bureaucracy have no chance of keeping up.

I wouldn't advise anyone who wants to become an entrepreneur to go to university. Being saddled with such huge debt when you graduate isn't conducive to exploring opportunities. Nor is there much opportunity to learn from teachers who are hands on. Rather than theoretical.

I would advise anyone who wants to become an entrepreneur to learn skills on the hop. Online courses. Short term courses at vocational schools rather than universities. And apply what you learn to what you want to achieve. In the moment. Don't wait until you've completed 4 years of study. Apply what you learn. As you learn it. It's not only cheaper. But relevant. And you only have to prove your worth to yourself. Not to some manager who has no idea as to what to do with you.

The business cycle is now so short, anyone in business has to commit to perennial learning. ~Carol❤
 
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WildFlower

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Yuck.

I hope I don't find myself in a room with stiffs like that.
Yup.. I know an attorney who didn't go to an ivy school, passed the bar on 1st time and he has a hard time finding work. And yet most of those guys are yahoos that took them 3-5 times to pass the bar.
 
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alan3wilson

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I think it depens on what you do study (engineering or low quality degree).. in Europe some colleges are cheap or free.. I think if you do the right degree , it can help for your business.. correct me if I'm wrong.
 

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To me College/University isn't worth much unless it's required for a license. If I said College/University was all garbage, I would be lying to you. One of the most important business relationships I have is with someone I met and collaborated with while doing our graduate degrees. I was intentional and specific with what I wanted to get from that degree, this was one of them.
 

alan3wilson

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so best thing would be to create or work on projects to get your athority in the real world if you don't have a degree?
 
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lewj24

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ZF Lee

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The business cycle is now so short, anyone in business has to commit to perennial learning. ~Carol❤
IMO, is there even such thing as a business cycle anymore? :)
People still buy whatever they want, recession or not.

You remind me of my economics lessons at college. As I poured through my books, I shook my head and said, 'This shit doesn't work like that.'

Business cycles only matter if you operate based on a united front, where all the businesses in the country are united into one national front. One big national company. But well, guess what...no one does that. Every business will be looking out for its own self.

Business cycles only matter if everyone wants to stick to buying product X or product Y. It is assumed that no one will create a better product. GAMECHANGING products of BETTER value will convince people to act very differently, regardless of recession.

Business cycles assume that in terms of employment, everyone will either be a worker bee or be a broke bum. It depends on the falsity that everyone has to be SCRIPTED in a cubicle to be counted as 'employed'. It assumes that no one will be tired of working in a 9-5 and will not take the jump to do something different.

Don't wait until you've completed 4 years of study. Apply what you learn. As you learn it. It's not only cheaper. But relevant. And you only have to prove your worth to yourself. Not to some manager who has no idea as to what to do with you.
This statement is F*cking sad.
I refused to join any college clubs because they didn't teach any skills. Industrial skills, that is. And everyone was more focused on getting the grades rather than building better and freer lives for themselves while they were still young and energetic.

I am also quite sick of looking at FB pictures of university events which involve partying, some mindless trip full of adolescent ignorance with no industrial relevance and career talks that didn't offer much value even for networking.

Are people really content with the way they are living their lives???

Getting an education is one matter. But allowing the system to determine what SKILLS you possess is pretty dangerous.

I think it depens on what you do study (engineering or low quality degree).. in Europe some colleges are cheap or free.. I think if you do the right degree , it can help for your business.. correct me if I'm wrong.
Yup...of course. Degrees don't hurt if you know how to use them. But it becomes wrong when 100% of your strategy is dependent on academics lol. No silver bullet there!
 

NNanaka

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There's been a trend in this country (in my observation) against educated people. I often hear the term "elite" thrown around in a negative context when it comes to people with higher education who are not humble about their knowledge and expertise.

While I understand it, I do find it ironic. If a world-class athlete shows off his skills (and is confident in the process), he is praised and adored. If a world-class musician shows off his skills (and is confident in the process), he will likely become wealthy and famous. But, if a world-class scientist or researcher shows off his skills (and is confident in the process), he is label "elitist."

Education has become politicized in this county, which is bad for everyone. I don't think I need to say more than that to make my point (not looking to start a political discussion), but I do find it sad that being able to shoot a basketball is now more praise-worthy than creating a technology that revolutionizes the world. The fact that the United States ranks 14th in the world in education and 24th in literacy -- and more importantly, the fact that most people don't think this is an issue -- just highlights the problem.

In 20 years, when the US is likely no longer the most prosperous country in the world, the simple reason will be our lack of reverence and respect for education and those who pursue it.

Just my not-so-humble opinion (and proud to not be humble about it)...


fully agree with you!
my education gave me more possibilities, I can find work easily and be respected by colleagues.
BUT
most of my old friends from school who don't have a high education are bad to me
I don't seem to come across as an "elitist" and I think science is one of the most important things in our life and it's the one right foundation for our future
Of course, it's hard
you study and have loans, but... I used to work, had got a huge experience. yeah, I took some credits, but... when I found out online services, my life became easier
taking a 100 or 500 dollars from a bank is not a good idea, but service like webmoneyloans is good) you can always have some money till you get it on your work and live comfortably with it
that's the one hard thing, but if speak about everything else, that was beautiful years
I had got a knowledge of how to work hard, but good, and after these years of studying-working-studying-working going to work and running a business doesn't seem so hard at all
 
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Domination

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Sorry but "saying that going to school is a waste of time" is terrible advice. That was the fad advice of the 2000s which too many people fell for and disregarded the importance of education.

Going to school is very important, period. Now I don't mean going to school and learning bogus material like sociology, flawed history, or humanities. But rather, learning the fundamentals of life itself including math, chemistry, biology. Having these basics down will definitely help a person develop a realistic perspective of life.

As for wasting time in university, it actually depends on what you go for. If a person decides to spend 4 years majoring in woman studies then obviously rethinking University would be a good thing. If a person is going to spend years of their life going to school, then its got to be for a worthwhile degree such as anything in engineering.

Overall, I know many people that have started businesses and many of them were educated including engineers, accountants etc. Now would that be the case if they were not educated and didn't go to school? Sometimes the traditional route of getting a good degree, saving cash, and then investing and starting a business as more intelligent version of yourself is the best way to go.
 

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