Self-Taught "Coder" With 5-Figure MRR SaaS Company

[AdamMaxum]

Awesome thread. Thanks for taking the time!

Couple questions...

1. One of my biggest issues with starting a software company is paying developers thousands of dollars to get the MVP up and running. Is this just the risk you have to take if your not able to do it on your own? Validate the need/market and potential users of the product and jump in? Do you have any words of wisdom before paying developers to create the product? Any less obvious red flags to be aware of?

2. I see you have a 25 day free trial. I've never seen 25 days used before. Why not 30? Why not 21? Any rhyme or reason?

3. Do you have the developers function as the designers or do you keep them separate in the hiring process? (if you're not the one doing the design)

 

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[daru]

I dabbled a lot between Python (and Django) or RoR. But I'm actually glad I went with python. It takes a little bit more effort, but you have more Sense of control.. and the possibilites in other domains are huge within python too. Great post and awesome thread!

Python, Ruby or PHP. All viable languages. Choose whatever anyone you know uses!
If it takes off, yeah you may need to use Java, C/C++, Go, Erlang, Rust etc. but premature optimization is to be avoided by all means as we say in the software development industry.

 

[gouhst]

Thanks for the great AMA @James A! Your story is truly inspirational.

Were you working on your own stuff full-time in the beginning of your entrepreneurial journey (e.g. when you had the idea for Feedbackz, or even before that), and if so did you just support yourself with savings? Or were you working a job and doing your project on nights and weekends, up until a point where you could quit your job? Just wondering what sort of resources, both time and money, you dedicated to doing your own thing in the very early days, esp. because you mentioned that in the beginning, you spent $4,000+, and probably a lot of time, on outsourced developers that didn't work out.

 

[James Fake]

Appreciate the post.
Man, I don't have anything in mind to build, but I would like to build a mobile app. What languages would you recommend me to learn ? (I am already learning java)

Hey, I am not really an expert in the mobile app world. But my general advice would be to pick one that would help you get the first working app up and running the quickest. I may be incorrect, but I believe there are frameworks already built to help launch mobile apps quick; use those. And whatever language happens to be in those, use them.

Excellent website - really nice style and perfect fit for your product.

You coded it yourself in the end?

Thank you! Yes, the front-end homepage stuff is all custom made. =)

Just to add to this, you should create a template out of your website and sell it as a minimalist startup template. I've been scouring the internet for a template such as this but never really found a suitable one.

I was in the same boat; the best way to do it is to find a template that fits enough and then edit the html/css out. It's amazing what a simple 'white out' on a lot of templates would drastically look like. =)

Thanks man this is beautiful, rep ++

Ok, so I am big on using similar terms and language. This helps me understand. Let me try to repeat back in my own words:

You've been looking for and using Growth Hacking style, free / viral / shareable content-marketing style traffic.
Creating Evergreen content (mostly blog articles?) on your website for your target audience.

You spend a lot of time carefully crafting the right message, for the right people.
Then you put a ton of effort into DISTRIBUTING it to the right communities; making an effort to get Eyeballs and Engagement.

This builds Warm Traffic... maybe you capture to an Email List... eventually some percentage of visitors Sign Up.

So perhaps, before writing a line of Code, you'd verify multiple Forums, places to share your Content Marketing that your Customers already exist?
Confirm that there's some FREE way to Get Eyeballs from the People who Need What You Have?
Because even if you build the Perfect Solution to a Giant Need, it doesn't matter if you can't get that Solution in front of people for Free?

Am I getting warm?

If so...
If you wanted to make ten times as much Revenue - six figures a month - how would you approach that?

Would you....
Do even *more* Great Content, and *more* Content Distribution (perhaps an employee) would get *more* Sales?
Use another Marketing route (paid Ads?) to scale "another 0" onto your income?
Or would you go back to the drawing board and design a new Product?

Apologies if I've assumed or asked too much - thanks again for your time

Yes, you are hot and right on it!

To make ten times revenue; just pump up marketing 10x. So I would need to write, distribute, and market content of the same quality by 10. Paid ads in this niche is usually a loss leader of some sort.

I find the quality of users coming in from my content much more enjoyable to work with; partially, because we have much in common in thought and mindset.

I dabbled a lot between Python (and Django) or RoR. But I'm actually glad I went with python. It takes a little bit more effort, but you have more Sense of control.. and the possibilites in other domains are huge within python too. Great post and awesome thread!

That is awesome to hear!

Just wanted to say your site looks awesome and congrats on your success!

I remember a quote from limitup's AMA a few years back where he basically said "Marketing + techie skills = M-O-N-E-Y."

Your story reminded me of that. Keep crushing!

Thank you!!

Awesome thread. Thanks for taking the time!

Couple questions...

1. One of my biggest issues with starting a software company is paying developers thousands of dollars to get the MVP up and running. Is this just the risk you have to take if your not able to do it on your own? Validate the need/market and potential users of the product and jump in? Do you have any words of wisdom before paying developers to create the product? Any less obvious red flags to be aware of?

2. I see you have a 25 day free trial. I've never seen 25 days used before. Why not 30? Why not 21? Any rhyme or reason?

3. Do you have the developers function as the designers or do you keep them separate in the hiring process? (if you're not the one doing the design)

Hey, thanks...

1) If you can't do it yourself, you're going to want to super-validate the idea. Me personally; I wouldn't work on an idea unless you can get a pre-paid user(s) already committed. (and I mean cash in hand and in your hand, and not just a verbal commitment). - or - if you are a direct user of your own app because whatever out in the market was lacking a serious angle.

Python, Ruby or PHP. All viable languages. Choose whatever anyone you know uses!
If it takes off, yeah you may need to use Java, C/C++, Go, Erlang, Rust etc. but premature optimization is to be avoided by all means as we say in the software development industry.

!

Thanks for the great AMA @James A! Your story is truly inspirational.

Were you working on your own stuff full-time in the beginning of your entrepreneurial journey (e.g. when you had the idea for Feedbackz, or even before that), and if so did you just support yourself with savings? Or were you working a job and doing your project on nights and weekends, up until a point where you could quit your job? Just wondering what sort of resources, both time and money, you dedicated to doing your own thing in the very early days, esp. because you mentioned that in the beginning, you spent $4,000+, and probably a lot of time, on outsourced developers that didn't work out.

Great questions..

1) Around 2015 - I was able to build my FBA sales up to become a full-time FBA seller. And since FBA is so passive, instead of launching more products, I used that time to create Feedbackz to use myself for awhile.

2) I was working a full-time job when I was doing the FBA side hustle. I worked through all nights and weekends, easily 80-90 hour work weeks. This was ~2015.

3) Prior to 2015; those times I got burned for $1,000 and then $4,000.. it didn't happen within the same year. My entire journey is spread out over about 10 years. I began learning photoshop, html/css, etc. and making websites around 2008. I don't know exactly how I scraped up the cash, but it was likely from Federal Tax returns and/or saving up from different ecommerce ventures I had pursued.

~2010 is when I got burned for $1,000 and then I pursued app idea #2 and got burned the $4,000 around ~2013.

 

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[Locomote]

Hey James! Thanks for the AMA. Its answered a lot of questions I've had already.

I'm at a stage where I'm almost ready to launch my MVP. I have one customer at the moment paying a minimal monthly fee (basically covers my hosting costs and a few other bits) but the real value for me is the feedback from having them use and test the product.

The questions I seem to keep running into currently are about pricing:

• How do I ensure I'm not underselling myself or my service?
• Is there a certain %profit I should be aiming for per month?
• Is there a certain time frame I should be aiming for where I should see a return on my initial investment?

I understand every project is different and have many variables but are these similar questions you encountered as you neared your launch and if so how did you manage them?

 

[James Fake]

Hey James! Thanks for the AMA. Its answered a lot of questions I've had already.

I'm at a stage where I'm almost ready to launch my MVP. I have one customer at the moment paying a minimal monthly fee (basically covers my hosting costs and a few other bits) but the real value for me is the feedback from having them use and test the product.

The questions I seem to keep running into currently are about pricing:

• How do I ensure I'm not underselling myself or my service?
• Is there a certain %profit I should be aiming for per month?
• Is there a certain time frame I should be aiming for where I should see a return on my initial investment?

I understand every project is different and have many variables but are these similar questions you encountered as you neared your launch and if so how did you manage them?

Hey,
Congrats on your first paying user. That is huge.

1) Pricing for me is based upon value. Unfortunately, there's no real formula to this as a lot of things vary, but in my case; it came down to trying to fit myself inside a user's shoes in each pricing plan.

Silver $9/month - Most Amz sellers when first starting out are counting every dollar, and probably wouldn't pay over $20/month for a service until their product/sales start growing.

Once they know it is bringing in some income and they see the value in even getting one review adding more possible sales; they start investing more money and are less tight with it as long as they see the value from it.

With that said; I am actually adjusting the pricing on mine again. Probably raising the lower tier a bit, and dropping the cost of the bigger accounts. Hopefully; things will balance out in the end!

So my other advice; is that it's a constant experiment and adjustment. Most SaaS almost always go through some sort of pricing changes as they grow.

2) Compared to fixed costs like servers, etc. etc.; I'd say keep it lower than 20% if possible. Because your other variable costs like development time will eat away at the rest of the profit margin to about 50% maybe until you really get rolling.

3) I think that all depends on your niche, etc. etc. but I didn't see green until about middle of the second year as I was re-investing everything heavily back into the app.

 

[KassandraTB]

Do you help others with their producats? A company called (Far North) said they can make my product....Im questioning who else is out there before I dump cash into he deal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk

 

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[fluffhead]

Hey @James A , thanks for doing this! I was certainly a happy customer of Feedbackz for about a year, at which point I got out of the FBA game.

I've been postponing learning a coding language for about a year now (I know, shame on me) as it just sounds like you need to learn A LOT to get something off the ground. I just dove in today and will just take it day by day, but I had a few questions that I was hoping you could help with.

1) I'm going to learn Python at first given I currently work in Financial Services and it could be a "2 birds with 1 stone" situation. I guess my question is (very basic), is Python a good language to learn in order to create a SaaS product?

2) Obviously you were in the FBA game and saw the shortcomings, but what was the driving force for you to create Feedbackz?

3) Assuming I have 0 HTML/CSS/Java skills (I knew HTML when I was 14, but not now), what would be your course of action for someone like me to go from literally nothing to a full blown SaaS product (in order please)?

4) How long (sorry if I missed this above) did it take you from start to finish to create this? How quickly did you scale to the 5-digit per month MRR? What are your future plans?

Thanks again!

 

[silentjay]

Python, Ruby or PHP. All viable languages. Choose whatever anyone you know uses!
If it takes off, yeah you may need to use Java, C/C++, Go, Erlang, Rust etc. but premature optimization is to be avoided by all means as we say in the software development industry.

Yeah premature optimisation is the root of all evil. Telling someone to learn C++/Java in order to build a MVP SaaS app is doing them a huge dis-service. Even Facebook still contains a hell of a lot of PHP from what I recall.

For a newbie I'd recommend RoR(Ruby) or Django(Python) + Javascript of course. I personally went with Python, preferred it's simple readability and didn't like Rubys auto-magical crap. Still, horses for courses and recommend someone try them both.

 

[eliquid]

Yeah premature optimisation is the root of all evil. Telling someone to learn C++/Java in order to build a MVP SaaS app is doing them a huge dis-service. Even Facebook still contains a hell of a lot of PHP from what I recall.

For a newbie I'd recommend RoR(Ruby) or Django(Python) + Javascript of course. I personally went with Python, preferred it's simple readability and didn't like Rubys auto-magical crap. Still, horses for courses and recommend someone try them both.

I'd have to say you're highly ill-informed.

It's not a dis-service.

Why?

1. As someone with 4 prior profitable SaaS products and coding up my 5th ( myself, not with a VA or a dedicated programmer ), I have a bit of experience in this realm. I've been coding since 1999. I've touched several languages in my day too. Am I the best?.. by no means no. However, I have a lot of failures in this area. If you are coding for scale and don't know any programming, C/C++ is prob. the best place to start. I've seen this firsthand. I was once a nay-sayer, but I've seen the difference firsthand now.
   
   
2. I pre-qualified my statement about C++ by saying "scale". If you are building something a few people will use or you are not touching a lot of data, sure PHP, Perl, Ruby is cool. Once you start handling lots of users ( or in my case billions of rows of new data daily ) you won't get anywhere unless you are doing C++ ( or perhaps Java or Go ). I've been down this road a few times. The only way you ever do this in PHP or Python or Ruby is if you use a TON of servers for processing on Linode or Amazon ( insert any cloud provider here ). But that's really just a band-aid for the problem. Why spend THOUSANDS of dollars on servers when you can write the code correctly and cut server costs 2/3's? Code that use to take minutes to run now runs in milliseconds? Yeah, I'll stick with my C++ statement.
   
   
3. Facebooks does use PHP, so does Google. However you aren't being clear about what they use PHP for. None of that "vanilla" PHP is touching anything that is scale or mission critical these days. Look at HipHop and HHVM. It's not "regular" PHP. As they scaled, they went in new directions. Ask yourself why. Most of their code that handles anything important for scale or speed is NOT PHP. I'd bet my left nut on it. These companies have whole departments that build "new" tech because what's out there today doesn't cut it for them.. tech like RocksDB, HHVM, Go, Redis, etc. Why would they need to build new if something like Ruby or Python could serve them? For a lot of tech they build, the backend that runs it is either something entirely new or based on C/C++/Java code. Wonder why? You might see Lua backends or Haskell or something non C/C++/Java, but that pales in comparison. Again we are talking scale and speed here which is what my comment was about.
   
   
4. For someone that doesn't know how to code and doesn't have preferences or bad habits from their prior code experience, learning C++ is no different than Ruby. Takes the same time and you start out learning code that is magnitudes faster than what you might call "easier" languages. Most of the syntax for these easier languages is actually from C and C++.
   
   
5. Why on earth would you build something in 1 language because you think it's easier ( if you have no code experience, it's actually not ), have it take off, and then have to recode it in something else later if you hit "scale". Sounds like double work to me and many nights of headache ( trust me, Ive been there a lot and learned from it. )
   
   
6. C/C++ doesnt have "updates" to their code base really. Why? Because they have had years to get everything right and secure. When you head down languages like PHP, you have to ask yourself.. Am I going with PHP 4, 5, 7? Oh wow, I now need to code around the fact I use PHP 5.4 and now this library no longer works ( breaks ) because of an update. No thank you. Been down this road too. This happens in other languages too like Perl, Python, Ruby, etc. Im not in this game to recode things that break from the source. I'd rather spend my time coding new things or making money.
   
   
7. A lot of new and awesome tech isn't programmed in languages like PHP, but it almost always is in C++. For instance, want to use a cutting edge library like TrailDB ( TrailDB ) ? You wont find PHP bindings, or .Net, Ruby, or Perl bindings. You will find C++. This is pretty common practice to always have a C/C++ version that is updated on new tech. Not always true with other languages ( some will have it, but it wont be updated as frequently ).
   
   
8. I'm still learning and I am still making mistakes. However, I won't make the mistake of NOT opening my mind to the fact if I build something, I want it done right and don't want to babysit it when it hits scale or the code base updates and breaks XYZ things on it's own.
   
   
9. Don't take my advice though if you plan to NOT scale or if you plan to just "mess around" with what you're building. But I already mentioned this before in my prior post.
   
   
10. Things can always get "easier" later. Things don't always get "scalable" or "faster" on their own though. Might as well have that code base setup now before you have to build and refactor when you realize it's too late.

 

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[flyingdev]

@James A
Thank you for your topic, its very inspirational. I spend yesterday 2 hours coding my project and today 30 minutes (in tube). Reading stuff like yours makes me keep bad thoughts away. Thanks!

Regarding languages to learn, I would recommend Ruby (and Rails) as I think its still fastest way to write any MVP which can be turn into product, but Python which is less magic would be also good - I don't have lot of experience here. And Javascript, which is going towards lingua franca, but writing full Saas in Javascript would be bit more complex than Rails or Django.

The only way you ever do this in PHP or Python or Ruby is if you use a TON of servers for processing on Linode or Amazon ( insert any cloud provider here ). But that's really just a band-aid for the problem. Why spend THOUSANDS of dollars on servers when you can write the code correctly and cut server costs 2/3's? Code that use to take minutes to run now runs in milliseconds? Yeah, I'll stick with my C++ statement.

As I have lot of experience in topic - I would never recommend to learn C++ to any one. C++ is good for big desktop apps like photoshop and real time app like bank trading or very real time apps like aircrafts/cars safety system. But this system requires mathematical proof from people who likely has PHD in math and have lot of fun doing this (like this Russian mathematician who turned out 1M $ prize because he was happy with his 100$ per month life).
I seen hundred of cases where applying good engineering like basic algorithm skills or db skills decrease server needs by 1000% in Ruby programs. For this, thats true - you would need good developer, but I would myself help anyone helping with Rails performance issues for lets say 50% of first year infrastructure savings.
Although writing background job worker in Go or Java - this is very often very good idea and can save costs in magnitude - but it will be probably often less than 1000 lines of code and can be done in 10 days or even less.

learning C++ is no different than Ruby. Takes the same time and you start out learning code that is magnitudes faster than what you might call "easier" languages. Most of the syntax for these easier languages is actually from C and C++.

@eliquid with all respect I have to you as for successful fastlaner, I have to say its not true.
Learning C++ takes much more time then Ruby, and even experienced C++ would need 10 times more time to write any Saas than Ruby dev (with same experience).
C++ can be very fast, but debugging and maintaining C++ code is much, much more complicated.
I agree - Go or Java is good choice for second language, but if you have performance problem, I would either search for "ruby on rails performance" or ask someone with industry experience to look into obvious performance bottlenecks (like not correctly design database).

@MJ DeMarco said he had around 12000 uu on his website - and I have to say its like 1000 uu per hour, and every rails app would able to handle this traffic, when more less properly designed.

Once I did reservation app, where on search I had to check lot of data. It was like 20s to perform search. But with little knowledge of algoritms, I simply created index in db which was updated on every reservation. Search to reservation ratio we expected was 100/1.
So before index:
* search was taking 20s
After index
* search was taking 200ms
* rebuild index was taking 20s, but only after reservation was placed
* rebuild index was done by background job, so it wasn't blocking life traffic

I could move rebuild index to server which was 1000% cheaper then heroku if it would become to expensive.
So, first, try to understand the problem, or at least assume that there lot of solution for given problem.

So finishing my too big (please forgive me) post, learn Python or Ruby and try to find someone who will explain Computer Science which is below Rails or Django

 

[eliquid]

...

Your comparisons aren't really valid. Adding an index to a SQL database ( which is pretty much coding/dev 101 ) is in no way a comparison to c++ or scaling a SaaS.

As another thought though, once you have done the "basics" and still need to scale.. where do you go? Answer: c++, go, java, redis, etc.

Again, why double work?

A lot of you are living with invisible scripts directing your choices in life and business...

Anyways, I am going to stop posting in this thread. I feel like I have possibly derailed it a bit.

.

 

[lowtek]

Don't many languages include compatibility with C/C++? I know python does. You can do most of the logic in python, and compute intensive tasks can be written in C and compiled to speed up execution. Seems like the best of both worlds.

 

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[James Fake]

Do you help others with their producats? A company called (Far North) said they can make my product....Im questioning who else is out there before I dump cash into he deal.

Unfortunately; I don't have much time anymore these days to actually dig in & help others specifically with products.. Feedbackz, launching another app, and my ecomm is taking it all away!

Thank you for your topic, its very inspirational. I spend yesterday 2 hours coding my project and today 30 minutes (in tube). Reading stuff like yours makes me keep bad thoughts away. Thanks!

No prob! Keep it going strong!

Anyways, I am going to stop posting in this thread. I feel like I have possibly derailed it a bit.

Lol..

 

[James Fake]

Just adding some random thoughts since we are on language selection:

I think it largely depends on what your goals are:

1. Do you plan to build it to a 5-figure company & continue to be a day to day coder? or you going to become CEO and outsource this stuff? Including backend infrastructure, scaling, etc..

2. Re-work sucks.. and yes, lots can be prevented. But if it comes in the way of not launching anything; then I'd rather put out a shit app (logic, code, setup, etc.) that works and makes money and then worry about re-factoring later. Many times; anything making money will never be beautiful anyways... things start looking ugly real fast. Actually; if your app's codebase is beautiful, then it probably isn't making money lol.

To me, a SaaS app generating decent revenue is just controlled chaos when it comes to code base.

3. I think for us FLaners; the name of the game is speed to launch and actually launching something. In which case; just pick up a shovel (code language aka tool that is a means to an end) & start digging (coding, creating, launching)... Until something is launched and making money; the color of the shovel doesn't really matter, as long as you have a basic handle, stick, and metal shovel part.. they will all work.

 

[Arevico]

Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge. I've a question,

1. Which processes do you trough before developing software? Do you design the screen first, do you do some minimal market research ? What things do you do before actually starting to code ?

 

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[AdamMaxum]

I'd have to say you're highly ill-informed.

It's not a dis-service.

Why?

1. As someone with 4 prior profitable SaaS products and coding up my 5th ( myself, not with a VA or a dedicated programmer ), I have a bit of experience in this realm. I've been coding since 1999. I've touched several languages in my day too. Am I the best?.. by no means no. However, I have a lot of failures in this area. If you are coding for scale and don't know any programming, C/C++ is prob. the best place to start. I've seen this firsthand. I was once a nay-sayer, but I've seen the difference firsthand now.
   
   
2. I pre-qualified my statement about C++ by saying "scale". If you are building something a few people will use or you are not touching a lot of data, sure PHP, Perl, Ruby is cool. Once you start handling lots of users ( or in my case billions of rows of new data daily ) you won't get anywhere unless you are doing C++ ( or perhaps Java or Go ). I've been down this road a few times. The only way you ever do this in PHP or Python or Ruby is if you use a TON of servers for processing on Linode or Amazon ( insert any cloud provider here ). But that's really just a band-aid for the problem. Why spend THOUSANDS of dollars on servers when you can write the code correctly and cut server costs 2/3's? Code that use to take minutes to run now runs in milliseconds? Yeah, I'll stick with my C++ statement.
   
   
3. Facebooks does use PHP, so does Google. However you aren't being clear about what they use PHP for. None of that "vanilla" PHP is touching anything that is scale or mission critical these days. Look at HipHop and HHVM. It's not "regular" PHP. As they scaled, they went in new directions. Ask yourself why. Most of their code that handles anything important for scale or speed is NOT PHP. I'd bet my left nut on it. These companies have whole departments that build "new" tech because what's out there today doesn't cut it for them.. tech like RocksDB, HHVM, Go, Redis, etc. Why would they need to build new if something like Ruby or Python could serve them? For a lot of tech they build, the backend that runs it is either something entirely new or based on C/C++/Java code. Wonder why? You might see Lua backends or Haskell or something non C/C++/Java, but that pales in comparison. Again we are talking scale and speed here which is what my comment was about.
   
   
4. For someone that doesn't know how to code and doesn't have preferences or bad habits from their prior code experience, learning C++ is no different than Ruby. Takes the same time and you start out learning code that is magnitudes faster than what you might call "easier" languages. Most of the syntax for these easier languages is actually from C and C++.
   
   
5. Why on earth would you build something in 1 language because you think it's easier ( if you have no code experience, it's actually not ), have it take off, and then have to recode it in something else later if you hit "scale". Sounds like double work to me and many nights of headache ( trust me, Ive been there a lot and learned from it. )
   
   
6. C/C++ doesnt have "updates" to their code base really. Why? Because they have had years to get everything right and secure. When you head down languages like PHP, you have to ask yourself.. Am I going with PHP 4, 5, 7? Oh wow, I now need to code around the fact I use PHP 5.4 and now this library no longer works ( breaks ) because of an update. No thank you. Been down this road too. This happens in other languages too like Perl, Python, Ruby, etc. Im not in this game to recode things that break from the source. I'd rather spend my time coding new things or making money.
   
   
7. A lot of new and awesome tech isn't programmed in languages like PHP, but it almost always is in C++. For instance, want to use a cutting edge library like TrailDB ( TrailDB ) ? You wont find PHP bindings, or .Net, Ruby, or Perl bindings. You will find C++. This is pretty common practice to always have a C/C++ version that is updated on new tech. Not always true with other languages ( some will have it, but it wont be updated as frequently ).
   
   
8. I'm still learning and I am still making mistakes. However, I won't make the mistake of NOT opening my mind to the fact if I build something, I want it done right and don't want to babysit it when it hits scale or the code base updates and breaks XYZ things on it's own.
   
   
9. Don't take my advice though if you plan to NOT scale or if you plan to just "mess around" with what you're building. But I already mentioned this before in my prior post.
   
   
10. Things can always get "easier" later. Things don't always get "scalable" or "faster" on their own though. Might as well have that code base setup now before you have to build and refactor when you realize it's too late.

As someone who is about to pay for a php developer to produce a future scalable website/program....I think you just convinced me to find and hire a c++ guy instead. Is there a big cost leap between any of the programming languages in the hiring market? Would I pay significantly more for c++ vs python or php?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[eliquid]

As someone who is about to pay for a php developer to produce a future scalable website/program....I think you just convinced me to find and hire a c++ guy instead. Is there a big cost leap between any of the programming languages in the hiring market? Would I pay significantly more for c++ vs python or php?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All things being equal, no.

If for some reason it does in your case ( depending on who you pick to code what ), you need the mission critical stuff that handles the scale in something like c/c++. Things that are not touching scale can be in another language if you needed it to be.

For example, the interface customers use in my SaaS would be in Perl or PHP. Maybe a function that tracks where customers visits inside my SaaS could in PHP.

However, the function that crunches the numbers on the billions of new rows daily I analyse would be in c++ because I need the data ready in hours before the next day begins. Pre-fetching my users data for them so the interface is lightening fast might also be done in c++ and stored in Redis instead of SQL, even though the interface itself is in PHP.

Look at what needs speed and scale, and what might be mission critical and figure out if that should be in another language like c++ over PHP/Python/Perl etc

.

 

[AdamMaxum]

All things being equal, no.

If for some reason it does in your case ( depending on who you pick to code what ), you need the mission critical stuff that handles the scale in something like c/c++. Things that are not touching scale can be in another language if you needed it to be.

For example, the interface customers use in my SaaS would be in Perl or PHP. Maybe a function that tracks where customers visits inside my SaaS could in PHP.

However, the function that crunches the numbers on the billions of new rows daily I analyse would be in c++ because I need the data ready in hours before the next day begins. Pre-fetching my users data for them so the interface is lightening fast might also be done in c++ and stored in Redis instead of SQL, even though the interface itself is in PHP.

Look at what needs speed and scale, and what might be mission critical and figure out if that should be in another language like c++ over PHP/Python/Perl etc

.

Awesome thanks for the reply...makes sense now.


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[James Fake]

Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge. I've a question,

1. Which processes do you trough before developing software? Do you design the screen first, do you do some minimal market research ? What things do you do before actually starting to code ?

Since I am from a marketing background, how something is "designed" is very important to me. Design including not just how something looks, but how it works, the feeling, impression, joys in using the app, etc.

But before I design anything; definitely market research. Research into the idea and if it would be something viable.

Once I figure out it's viability and few other things like how big the market is, etc. - I'll work on the marketing strategy and in what ways can I get users. Then branding. Then onto actually producing the app.

 

[James Fake]

As someone who is about to pay for a php developer to produce a future scalable website/program....I think you just convinced me to find and hire a c++ guy instead. Is there a big cost leap between any of the programming languages in the hiring market? Would I pay significantly more for c++ vs python or php?

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I think it depends on what things your website/app is going to do. If it's not complex, and doing the basics CRUD which is create, read, update, and destroy (which is like your basic apps like blogs, web version instagram facebook twitter) then I would go with something that could get you up to a working version quickly. (from my knowledge, probably Rails).

Without me knowing the costs and availability of other 'frameworks' for C++ and Python since I only know of Rails - it may take more hours for a programmer to get to your working version versus something like Rails where it's fairly quicker to get something up live and working.

 

[larry30]

James,
Thank you so much for putting it together. It's very helpful!

Your website look amazing!
Couple questions:

1/ What hosting service are you using and how do you set up the payment integration in general? I have a self publishing business and have some tools that I developed over the years to help with with niche selection (my previous background was software engineer). It's been really helpful for me to grow my book business and I believe it will help other authors as well. It's pretty much ready to deploy and I'm brainstorming and planing on the hosting servers and payment integration etc

2/ Did you design your beautiful front-end UI or hire a designer? If you hired, where do you recommend? Upwork? Local? etc
My app right now is having a bare minimum ugly UI because I'm just using it for myself, but I'd definitely need to tune it up before I put it up for other to use.

Thanks again for giving out so many great values!

 

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[loop101]

Don't many languages include compatibility with C/C++? I know python does. You can do most of the logic in python, and compute intensive tasks can be written in C and compiled to speed up execution. Seems like the best of both worlds.

Google is working on a Python-to-Go converter called "Grumpy", not sure when/if it will be ready for mainstream use:

Grumpy: Go running Python! | Google Open Source Blog

"Grumpy is an experimental Python runtime for Go. It translates Python code into Go programs, and those transpiled programs run seamlessly within the Go runtime. We needed to support a large existing Python codebase, so it was important to have a high degree of compatibility with CPython (quirks and all). The goal is for Grumpy to be a drop-in replacement runtime for any pure-Python project."

 

[Owner2Millions]

Python is a beautiful language and it's so many reasons to use it. One is it's extensive languages and two is it's easy of use and compatibility it's other languages such as C, Java etc....there are some interesting points made in this post but I think if your going have a tech company of any kind you should know IT and computer science basics. It will help in the long run even if it takes you a bit longer to learn. It's all apart of the process plus with a tech company your going have to keep adjusting and learning anyway.

I'm still in the very stages of my SaaS company but I know it's apart of the process and the event(ending result) will definitely be worth it.

 

[MetalGear]

What coder forum do you guys recommend? This is a great forum but I would not ask for code help here. Hope this question is ok.

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[daru]

What coder forum do you guys recommend? This is a great forum but I would not ask for code help here. Hope this question is ok.

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Stackoverflow is pretty damn awesome. But you will end up there anyway as soon as you search for your programming problem in Google.
Also check out Stackexchange tech sites.

 

[James Fake]

James,
Thank you so much for putting it together. It's very helpful!

Your website look amazing!
Couple questions:

1/ What hosting service are you using and how do you set up the payment integration in general? I have a self publishing business and have some tools that I developed over the years to help with with niche selection (my previous background was software engineer). It's been really helpful for me to grow my book business and I believe it will help other authors as well. It's pretty much ready to deploy and I'm brainstorming and planing on the hosting servers and payment integration etc

2/ Did you design your beautiful front-end UI or hire a designer? If you hired, where do you recommend? Upwork? Local? etc
My app right now is having a bare minimum ugly UI because I'm just using it for myself, but I'd definitely need to tune it up before I put it up for other to use.

Thanks again for giving out so many great values!

1. It all depends on hosting and what framework you are using, etc. For Feedbackz; it began with Heroku, DigitalOcean, and then finally onto Amazon AWS after it outgrew everything.

2. I designed it. =) That is a good question; in general, you get what you pay for no matter what platform you find your talent. Me, I would buy a UI template and then hire someone to tinker it to start off with.

 

[James Fake]

What coder forum do you guys recommend? This is a great forum but I would not ask for code help here. Hope this question is ok.

@daru hit it right on the nail. StackExchange should be your main go-to. As far as a "forum", I believe there is no need to discuss code and stuff because you should be knee deep in the action of coding; and the only time to put your head above water is when you're stuck and need help (insert StackExchange).

 

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[Sam Kennedy]

James,
I noticed you live in Las Vegas, I spent two years there, I absolutely loved it, it's a great place!

I'm also a self-taught coder, I've been building a website that simplifies the process of invoicing for freelancers (using Stripe to process payments). I'm getting people creating accounts, but nobody is using the site. My gut feeling is that it isn't solving a "painful" enough problem, while the current sites available aren't perfect, they're not really that bad either. I'm thinking of pivoting and creating a competitor to websites like Upwork and PPH.

Do you have any thoughts on pursuing this path? Anything I might need to be aware of?

Thank you

 

[AdamMaxum]

James,
I noticed you live in Las Vegas, I spent two years there, I absolutely loved it, it's a great place!

I'm also a self-taught coder, I've been building a website that simplifies the process of invoicing for freelancers (using Stripe to process payments). I'm getting people creating accounts, but nobody is using the site. My gut feeling is that it isn't solving a "painful" enough problem, while the current sites available aren't perfect, they're not really that bad either. I'm thinking of pivoting and creating a competitor to websites like Upwork and PPH.

Do you have any thoughts on pursuing this path? Anything I might need to be aware of?

Thank you

I think there is room for more websites like upwork out there, but it's a large undertaking. The hard part is getting people to use it which could take awhile. You may want to niche your platform to start and grow it from there. Like what 99designs did for design. There are a lot of 'writer' platforms. There are sites that focus just on developers. Something like that may allow you to market the site more effectively when the platform does launch.