The one and only fasting video you need to see.

[LifeTransformer]

Well agree to disagree i guess
I don't think it means zero calories, especially if i work out and exercise at the same time.

I look at fasting as giving the digestive system a break, and allow the body to clear itself out.
I believe tea with honey is very very light work for the body to handle.

No. Sorry to be a shit, but that isn't how it works.

What you're doing (if you watched the video) is; you're about to go into the freezer and defrost some of that shit that has been in there for 3 months, then suddenly what happens? You reach inside the fridge and have a big gulp of calories. You no longer need to enter the freezer because you've got your fix.

The result? The shit in the freezer stays there.

I don't want to make my post sound like I'm attacking you, but I've been where you are now. I used to think regulating calories worked (it doesn't), then I thought I was fasting when I only ate 2 meals per day. But I wasn't, because I was drinking calories, and it got me nowhere.

I lost over 50 lbs with fasting. And it cost me nothing to do it. Literally. That's why I'm a big proponent of it.

All of that said, the fact you say you drink a ton of tea and work out, and depending on your BMI (which I won't get into here) you're probably pretty damn healthy anyway.

While I'm at it; I'm also not a big proponent of "weight" as a key sign of health. There are people who weigh 220lbs and look like adonis, and those who weigh 220lbs and, to put it politely, don't.

 

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[luniac]

No. Sorry to be a shit, but that isn't how it works.

What you're doing (if you watched the video) is; you're about to go into the freezer and defrost some of that shit that has been in there for 3 months, then suddenly what happens? You reach inside the fridge and have a big gulp of calories. You no longer need to enter the freezer because you've got your fix.

The result? The shit in the freezer stays there.

I don't want to make my post sound like I'm attacking you, but I've been where you are now. I used to think regulating calories worked (it doesn't), then I thought I was fasting when I only ate 2 meals per day. But I wasn't, because I was drinking calories, and it got me nowhere.

I lost over 50 lbs with fasting. And it cost me nothing to do it. Literally. That's why I'm a big proponent of it.

All of that said, the fact you say you drink a ton of tea and work out, and depending on your BMI (which I won't get into here) you're probably pretty damn healthy anyway.

While I'm at it; I'm also not a big proponent of "weight" as a key sign of health. There are people who weigh 220lbs and look like adonis, and those who weigh 220lbs and, to put it politely, don't.

Hmm that analogy doesn't make sense to me, the body won't hold on to the stuff you eat if you keep eating.
That 3 month in freezer thing is not an accurate comparison.

But on the other hand yes i agree if you consume too many calories, you're effectively ending the fast.

The tea with honey is barely 100 calories at most.
tea alone is 0 calories, i add nothing to it.
Plus liquids go through the digestive system very easily.
Now if i drank 4 cups of tea with honey, 400 calories worth of honey, then perhaps that's pushing it and that's too much sugar regardless.

I'm actually focusing on weight gain, i've always been skinny.

 

[LifeTransformer]

Hmm that analogy doesn't make sense to me, the body won't hold on to the stuff you eat if you keep eating.
That 3 month in freezer thing is not an accurate comparison.

But on the other hand yes i agree if you consume too many calories, you're effectively ending the fast.

The tea with honey is barely 100 calories at most.
tea alone is 0 calories, i add nothing to it.
Plus liquids go through the digestive system very easily.
Now if i drank 4 cups of tea with honey, 400 calories worth of honey, then perhaps that's pushing it and that's too much sugar regardless.

I'm actually focusing on weight gain, i've always been skinny.

I think it does work, that's what the video is all about.

Another way to put it would be:

You've got a truck with 2 gas tanks, the first tank you use regularly (consumed calories), but the second one has had fuel in it for however long and never gets used (body fat).

Just when your truck is about to switch to its secondary tank and use up some of that stored fuel (fat), you add a gallon of gas (your cup of honey tea in this case) to the front tank and the old fuel in the other tank continues to sit there.

Consuming calories will interrupt fasting. Honey will probably spike insulin too.

 

[Red]

When I was into bulletproof coffee 4 or 5 years ago, my body just naturally settled into the 16:8 thing on it's own. I get hungry in the late morning (11-noon) & then usually in the late afternoon (4-5 or so). I don't like eating past 7 as it tends to mess with my sleep quality, I've noticed.

First thing upon waking up: 1 litre of water, BCAA's & Glutamine. Then bp coffee after the water (with added collagen). I don't know if it's technically IF due to the bp coffee, but I do know it's where my physiology has settled naturally & it seems to work well. I maintain my weight pretty easily & (I'm embarrassed to admit) haven't been working out for the past 2.5 years after I got frozen shoulder. I also follow a paleo diet & this past month, have refined it to be paleo keto.

So far, so good. I'm seeing more things improve & will continue doing this until my body tells me I need an adjustment. I'm a big proponent of the priority of physical health & when I feel like bad habits look tempting (why yes, that Krispy Kreme does look amazing.... 6 look even more amazing), I just remind myself that I'm currently buying back the last few decades of my life as a functional, healthy, independent, happy & prosperous human being.

 

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[Red]

It's all about the calories, doesn't matter if u eat them in 3 meals or 1 meal.

Nothing is ever this simplistic when it comes to the human body (please don't feel picked on here, luniac, that's not my intent). While "conventional wisdom" has told us to focus on calories, that type of thinking has over 40% of our country obese & another 35% overweight. The kicker is, when people are polled, over 90% think they eat a "healthy" diet.....

Everything is connected & you have to treat the body like a system of parts that work together for the best results. What do I mean by that?


Take the "a calorie is a calorie" concept & the "just eat at a deficit, bro" advice to lose weight...

2000 calories from leafy greens & veggies is going to have a very different impact on the body than the 6 king-sized Snickers bars that accomplish the same goal.

When you spike your insulin, when you ingest foods your body mistakes for foreign invaders & launches an auto-immune attack, you're going to have a very different experience than someone who avoids foods that do both of these things, despite consuming equal calories. When you whack out your thyroid (as it's documented that so many foods like sugar easily do) over a period of time, you compromise your body's ability to manage your metabolism efficiently. The older we get, the more poorly our bodies handle refined carbohydrates (looking at you again, sugar). When we deprive our bodies of nutrients, we further bog our systems down by draining what little precious resources we have left. We start breaking down on all levels.

Remember when Jared from Subway was famous for dramatic weight loss (as opposed to being pedophile)? He lost weight by eating sub sandwiches. That means his diet was so, so shitty prior to Subway that limiting himself to 3 meals of refined carbs & processed meat on a daily basis resulted in a step up in his health. Can you imagine his diet before that? It pains me to think about. If I went on the subway diet, I'd be sick within the week. I would also start packing on the pounds & F*ck up my thyroid like nobody's business. In a months time, I'd be bloated, lethargic, foggy-headed, depressed & hating life.

There is no one size fits all when it comes to diet/exercise/achieving optimal health. There are some pretty good guidelines out there to start from, but as we've seen, conventional wisdom isn't necessarily where you want to start & since we vary greatly at a genetic level, it makes sense that there will never be a one-size-fits-all approach.


IF has personally benefited me & until my body tells me otherwise, I'll continue on this course. Paleo has GREATLY benefited me & until my body tells me otherwise, I'll continue this as well. Keto paleo is currently being assessed but so far (30+ days in so far), but things look promising in this experiment as well.

tl;dr: Everyone is different & what works for one may not work for another. Tune into your body. Try different things for 30 days at a time. Your body will communicate with you in many ways on what it needs/doesn't like.

 

[Raoul Duke]

There are many adherents to the Calories In/ Calories Out (CICO) theory that constantly bleat about “It all comes down to the First Law of Thermodynamics”. The First Law of Thermodynamics refers to a law of physics where energy cannot be created or destroyed in a closed system and is ALWAYS true.

However, in the complex world of human physiology, it is true but completely irrelevant. What the CICO people think it means is that if you reduce calories in, you will lose weight. Of course, it means nothing of the sort.

So, let’s see why.

Here’s our representation of the human body. You have Calories In, Calories Out and Fat Storage.

This is the fatal flaw of CICO – there are two compartments where calories can go after being eaten, (Calories Out and Fat), not one. It is not a one compartment problem.

CICO adherents believe you take calories in, subtract calories out and whatever is left over is dumped into fat stores like a potato into a sack. So, they believe that fat stores are essentially unregulated. Every night, like a store manager closing its books, they imagine the body counts up calories in, calories out and deposits the rest into the fat ‘bank’. Of course, nothing is further from the truth.

How the body works
So here’s the way the body works. Every process is highly regulated. Whether we burn calories as energy or whether it goes towards fat storage is tightly controlled. As we eat, calories go in. Calories go out as basal metabolism (used for vital organs, heat production, etc) and exercise. Fat can go into storage or it can go out of storage.

What controls this decision? We all agree that the main hormone involved is insulin. As we eat, insulin goes up. Notice that the body does not respond to calories equally. Some calories (white bread) will raise insulin a lot, and others (butter) will hardly raise insulin at all. This should have been the first clue that calories are not the common language of weight gain/loss. The body has no receptors for calories and has no way of measuring calories.

Consider two foods that are equal caloric values – a plate of cookies versus a salad with olive oil with salmon. As soon as you eat, the body’s metabolic response is completely different and easily measured. One will raise insulin a lot, and the other won’t. So why do we pretend like the body cares about calories.

That’s like saying that foods that are blue are the same – whether they are blueberries or blue raspberry Gatorade. The body doesn’t care about color, so why would I? In the same way, the body doesn’t give two sh**s about calories, so why should we? However, the body DOES care a lot about the hormonal response to the foods we just ate.

Since we are eating more at that moment than can be used by the body, some of this food energy gets stored away, either as glycogen or fat. This is insulin’s role. It stores food energy through the processes of glycogen synthesis and de novo lipogenesis (making of new fat in the liver).

When we stop eating, insulin starts to fall. This is the signal to first stop storing food energy. As we continue to fast (say, during the night), we need to move some of this food energy back out from our stores to power our metabolism. Otherwise, we would die during our sleep, which obviously does not happen.

OK. So far, so good. Now let’s put some numbers on it. Let’s assume we are not gaining or losing weight, but have 100 pounds of fat we’d like to drop. Assume a daily average intake of 2000 calories. This is what it will look like.

Since Calories In and Calories out are balance, and Fat is neither going up or down, everything is in balance. The body wants to burn 2000 calories to stay warm and feel good. So what happens when we decide to lose weight?

Weight loss the CICO way
The CICO people say that all you need to do is reduce your calories in. You don’t need to worry about what you are eating because ‘it all comes down to calories’. So, eating a calorie reduced, low fat, high carbohydrate diet, insulin levels stay high, but calories comes down. They do this on shows like ‘The Biggest Loser’, but this is the exact same strategies that all the universities, and governments use too.

What happens?

You reduce your intake to 1200 calories per day. Since insulin remains high, you cannot get any energy from fat stores. Why? Because the dietary strategy you are using (Caloric Reduction as Primary) only concerns itself with reducing calories, not insulin. Remember that the high insulin is telling the body to store energy as fat, or at a minimum, not burn fat (inhibits lipolysis).

So, as you reduce your caloric intake to 1200 calories in, the body is forced to reduce it’s metabolism to only 1200 calories. No energy is available anywhere else. This is precisely what happened on the Biggest Loser as seen in the study featured in the New York Times. This is also precisely what happens during any caloric reduction diet.

That is why these diets are doomed to fail. Studies of this strategy estimate failure rates at 99%. Notice that the First Law of Thermodynamics is not being broken in any way. It is irrelevant.

The lower metabolism means you feel feel cold, tired and hungry. Worse, the weight eventually plateaus and then as you decide that it’s not worth it, you start to eat more, say 1400 calories thinking that it’s still not as much as you used to eat. Hunger hormones are increased because the body wants to burn 2000 calories and you are only taking in 1200. So weight starts coming back. Sound familiar?






Weight loss by reducing insulin
Well, that was fun. What happens when you use dietary strategies that instead target insulin? Low carb High Fat (LCHF) diets, ketogenic diets, and the ultimate insulin-reducing strategy, fasting all target the reduction of insulin.

What happens?

Since the point of these diets is to lower insulin, stored food energy (fat) can be broken down to power the body. Since the body wants to burn 2000 calories a day, it burns 1000 calories of fat and 1000 calories from food.

What we would predict is that basal metabolic rate remains the same, appetite is decreased and weight is steadily decreasing. Guess what? That’s exactly what is shown in studies. In Dr. David Ludwig’s study and Kevin Halls new study, ketogenic diets do not have this dreaded metabolic slowdown.

Anecdotally, hunger is also decreased with ketogenic diets. The effect is even more striking with fasting. I can only recount my experiences in the Intensive Dietary Management program. We’ve put over 1000 people on fasts of various durations. Many of them drag themselves since they have no energy. After fasting, their energy is massively increased. But despite this, they report that their appetite has shrunk to barely 1/3 of what it was previously. They often tell me they think their stomach has shrunk.

In a sense, it has. But if people are eating less because they are less hungry and then losing weight, that’s GREAT. Because we are now working with the body, instead of fighting it. With caloric reduction diets, people constantly fight their hunger and deny themselves food. Here, people are turning away food of their own volition. Because we lowered insulin.

The first law is right – but this isn’t physics
Notice once again, that the First Law of Thermodynamics is not being broken. There are no calories created out of thin air. It is simply irrelevant to human physiology.

I studied biochemistry in university and took a full year course on thermodynamics. At no point did we ever discuss the human body or weight gain/ loss. Because it has nothing to do with thermodynamics. If anybody mentions the ‘first law of thermodynamics’ regarding weight loss, you, too will know that they are just very smart. Or maybe they just haven’t really thought about what thermodynamics actually is.

Nutritionists on the other hand, especially the calorie counters, can’t seem to say enough about Thermodynamics. They have ‘science’ envy. They desperately want the quantitative and theoretical backing of hard science and therefore pretend that human physiology is like physics, with its hard rules and laws.

News flash, guys. Physiology is physiology and physics is physics. Don’t mess the two up.

The CICO people are Fregley. He is the character in ‘Diary of a Wimpy Kid’ who is the unpopular kid who wants desperately to be liked. CICO people desperately want the approval of hard science that they are willing to pretend that physiology is physics.

Sorry buddy. Just because you have physics envy, doesn’t mean you get to make up stuff. …. (I was going to put in a very crass and crude joke about the Freudian concept of penis envy all for the sake of a few cheap laughs. Against my better judgement, I have removed it.)

You also can’t use the Heisenberg uncertainty principle for weight loss. The Bernouilli Effect doesn’t apply to the urine stream. Physics is physics. Physiology is physiology.

Fasting vs. calorie reduction
Sometimes I’m asked the question about the difference between fasting and calorie reduction. Doesn’t fasting reduce calories? Yes, but that’s not the point. Fasting is about reducing insulin. This allows you to release some of the stored fat energy so that you don’t need to or even want to eat so much.

What drives me crazy is this. The Biggest Loser study proved that cutting calories is a terrible, horrible, no good and very bad strategy, virtually guaranteed to fail. So, in all these articles talking about the Kevin Hall study, what do the ‘experts’ suggest instead? Cutting your calories!!

The only thing worse are those ‘experts’ who claim that that the key is not to define success by weight loss. Win the Diet Wars by not even trying. Buddy! People want to know how to lose weight. Success is defined as weight lost, not loving your body the way it is. As Justin Bieber would say – Go Love Yourself. I wanna know how to lose weight. That’s what The Obesity Code is all about. If you want to know how to lose weight, first understand what causes weight gain.

What happens when you recommend a diet that is guaranteed to fail? Well, you might get a huge worldwide epidemic of type 2 diabetes and obesity.

Unfortunately, all the nutritional authorities all belong to the same CICO cult, and we are all paying the price for their stupidity. You thought Scientology was bad. CICO is even worse.

Let’s consider these simple facts. We’ve recommended cutting calories for weight loss for the last 40 years. During that time, we’ve had a huge obesity epidemic. All the science suggests that caloric reduction as primary is doomed to fail. Senior researchers, academic physicians and virtually all health associations continue to recommend it. They are sheep, constantly bleating. Count your calories! Cut your calories! It all comes down to calories! Anybody who believes otherwise doesn’t believe in the universal laws of nature! I have physics envy!

One article interviewed ‘leading obesity experts’ and came up with these tips. Exercise regularly. Cut calories by avoiding high fat foods. Eat breakfast. Count calories. So, in other words, they would give the exact same advice that we’ve been giving for the last 40 years even as the obesity epidemic overwhelms our health care system. Hey, Julia Belluz, the 1980s called, they want their diet advice back.

O…..M…..F…..G….

The lunatics are running the asylum. In discussing the physiology of obesity, the First Law of Thermodynamics is not wrong – it’s irrelevant.

Dr. Jason Fung


Why the First Law of Thermodynamics Is Utterly Irrelevant - Diet Doctor

 

[LifeTransformer]

Also this: Fasting Cleans the Brain - Rogue Health and Fitness

 

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[luniac]

I think it does work, that's what the video is all about.

Another way to put it would be:

You've got a truck with 2 gas tanks, the first tank you use regularly (consumed calories), but the second one has had fuel in it for however long and never gets used (body fat).

Just when your truck is about to switch to its secondary tank and use up some of that stored fuel (fat), you add a gallon of gas (your cup of honey tea in this case) to the front tank and the old fuel in the other tank continues to sit there.

Consuming calories will interrupt fasting. Honey will probably spike insulin too.

ahh yes i read about what you're saying, the body entering fat burning mode and all that.
I've read it takes weeks to enter such a mode and you have to follow the Metabolic Diet to do so.

Once you're in the mode it's not so simple to get out of it either, it's not just fasting based.

I really don't believe drinking a cup of tea with honey would that strongly affect the body energy usage.
Also i drink the honey during or around the same time i work out, exercise, etc to prevent the sugar spike.

Sure i could be full of shit but whatever lol, I'm just happy to not be dependent on 3 meals a day. It simplifies my life massively. I can spend that time doing yoga or something and getting business done.

 

[jlwilliams]

Ok, I just read this whole thread. Today, my wife and I had a little time out doing errands together....with no kids. We decided to have a quiet, late by our practice lunch which turned into both of us eating restaurant dinner portions. In short I feel like a stuffed slug. I'm reading a thread about intermittent fasting while at the same regretting my last meal. (It was delicious, and we enjoyed the time alone, but I regret packing all that sea food and pasta down at 3:00 this afternoon.)

I skipped dinner and won't consume anything but coffee and water until my post workout protein shake at about 8:00 tomorrow. That will be 15 or 16 hours (not exactly sure what time it was when I put down the fork.)

Good timing, great thread. Thank you.

 

[luniac]

Ok, I just read this whole thread. Today, my wife and I had a little time out doing errands together....with no kids. We decided to have a quiet, late by our practice lunch which turned into both of us eating restaurant dinner portions. In short I feel like a stuffed slug. I'm reading a thread about intermittent fasting while at the same regretting my last meal. (It was delicious, and we enjoyed the time alone, but I regret packing all that sea food and pasta down at 3:00 this afternoon.)

I skipped dinner and won't consume anything but coffee and water until my post workout protein shake at about 8:00 tomorrow. That will be 15 or 16 hours (not exactly sure what time it was when I put down the fork.)

Good timing, great thread. Thank you.

 

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[Mattie]

We'll see how it goes and if I can stick to this but it seems totally reasonable. I probably shouldn't be eating after 9pm anyway and I can't foresee a situation where I'm "forced" to eat a meal before 1pm outside of the odd lunch meeting (which I just wouldn't sweat).

I have to laugh, because people think I'm deliberately fasting. And the Introvert just must have a built in fasting mechanism, for the simple reason, both me and my son forget to eat, and food is usually the last thing on our minds. I have been asked if I'm fasting deliberately. And I always had a stunned look like, "What are you talking about?"

I tend to focus on my projects, education, processing information, that I become totally oblivious to food. And I guess this was one of the lessons of Entrepreneurship the last year. I just ate a protein peanut butter sandwich, because I know I've been told, my brain needs fuel as well as my body. Introverts get caught up in their intellect. I believe our bodies naturally tell us it's lacking nutrition in case we forgot. Worst case scenario my son's physician once told him, "Ice Cream" is good and protein. I suppose this all in our experience of reaching peak performance with our bodies and minds.

I tend to know focus determines my success. So, in the past I know my mind really hates reading food labels, calories, carbohydrates, and I went through that phase reading about different diets. The best thing that worked was throwing out the books, eating smaller portions, dumping junk food, and moving my body. You move to the Netherlands like me, well that kind of backfires for the simple reason the food tastes better, and lesson learned, just walking an hour a day, is a simple task. I didn't focus on anything, just made it fun with music. No destination and choosing a different route of scenery each day and discovering something new.

I believe sometimes we think and focus on things to much, study stuff, and really it's just simple solutions. Shut off the mind and move. Eat at the same time every day and move every day.

 

[LifeTransformer]

ahh yes i read about what you're saying, the body entering fat burning mode and all that.
I've read it takes weeks to enter such a mode and you have to follow the Metabolic Diet to do so.

Once you're in the mode it's not so simple to get out of it either, it's not just fasting based.

I really don't believe drinking a cup of tea with honey would that strongly affect the body energy usage.
Also i drink the honey during or around the same time i work out, exercise, etc to prevent the sugar spike.

Sure i could be full of shit but whatever lol, I'm just happy to not be dependent on 3 meals a day. It simplifies my life massively. I can spend that time doing yoga or something and getting business done.

You've not watched the video in the OP have you? It doesn't take weeks, it takes hours. You just have to fast.

It's quite simple to get back out of, you start eating/consuming calories again.

It does, insulin is the main driver of using body fat storages, spiking insulin, and that seemingly includes "zero calorie" options like Aspartame, will stop your body from using the fat stores. The second part of your sentence is quite good advice, did you know if you're in the arctic (purely for example) that you should consume more calories because the body is burning them at a faster rate?

I guess by the last bit that you're where I was a while ago, a 2 meals a day guy, that is great for maintenance and you sound healthy if you're working out. I don't know what your BMI is (sometimes irrelevant) or what kind of fat you're carrying around with you. So I might be preaching to someone already somewhat converted here anyway.

Give the video a watch if you get a chance to.

 

[jlwilliams]

I'm back. Just got out of the shower post workout, getting ready to head into the kitchen and put stuff into the blender for breakfast. Approximately 17 hours since my last calorie. I felt a little hungry before bed. Not really "hungry" more like "I could eat"... but I didn't. This morning I didn't feel ravenous. Just went about my regular morning. Wake @ 6:00, meditate and deep breathing (Wim Hof method) pack sons lunch, work out (T25)hot then cold shower. Still not shaking or really feeling pain to eat.

I think I can squeeze in a 16 or 18 hour fast once a week to start. I'm down with seeing where this takes my body and mind.

 

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[#nowhere]

So I'll chime in..

I started this in week 7, now we are in week 10. I have read the book "The Obesity Code" by Jason Fung.

Here is what I did and what I experienced:

- 3x 24-36h fasts/week
- No sugars or artificial sweeteners anymore
- I do eat fruits and vegetables
- Reduced considerably on starchy grains (sometimes oats)
- Ramped up on fats (not the industrial ones, but the natural ones: butter, olive oil (cold-pressed) )
- Sometimes I cheat if social events come up: Slice of pizza, cake or kebap.
- IMPORTANT: If you don't eat sufficiently on non-fasting days you'll feel cold on fasting days (Hands and feet). So make sure to eat sufficiently on non-fasting days!
__________________________________________________________________

= 13,2 lbs weight loss.

No hunger. No pain. No Cravings. No weight drop in lifting.

(Don't misunderstand this to cheat every non-fasting day. No sugars and starchy grains seldom will alter your buds)

 

[JAJT]

Just a quick chime in:

Fasted 16:8 all last week. Dead easy. Actually went 17 hours most of those days because if I don't eat lunch at noon like I'm used to I think my mind just assumes I'll eat again at dinner so I blow past my planned fasting time and an hour or so later realize I probably should have eaten something.

When I stop eating at 9pm, I find I get mildly hungry (stomach rumbling) around 10am, which quickly passes, and then I just don't get hungry again until I choose to eat.

Weekend I ate when I wanted to because I was in a cabin with some buddies in the snow drinking and laughing and enjoying life. As all cabin get togethers should be. Although I found it amusing that we woke up and left without breakfast and I basically "accidentally" fasted until I got back around 2pm and realized "huh, I haven't eaten, probably should grab something...". I think my body is seriously just taking to this new schedule naturally.

Back to 16:8 for the week again and I think I'll just stick with this going forward. Easy. Supposedly beneficial. And if I lose some weight too then great.

 

[jlwilliams]

Enjoying a smoothie at the end of sixteen calorie free hours. This makes two short fasts this week. Naturally I can't point to any great before and after pictures from week one of a couple of intermittent fasts both less than 24 hours but I can say with certainty that this isn't going to kill me. I can work this into my life without excessive suffering and without being miserable to this around me.

I got this, bros.

 

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[LifeTransformer]

Older article I've just come across that is worth adding: Fasting for three days can regenerate entire immune system, study finds

That title is click-baity of course, but could "detoxing" be as simple as fasting for 3 days? Not: Going to a sauna retreat in the mountains, and eating grass for 7 days while doing chakras in your wife's gym gear?

 

[jlwilliams]

Older article I've just come across that is worth adding: Fasting for three days can regenerate entire immune system, study finds

That title is click-baity of course, but could "detoxing" be as simple as fasting for 3 days? Not: Going to a sauna retreat in the mountains, and eating grass for 7 days while doing chakras in your wife's gym gear?

Just last night I was reading "Tools for Titans" where a very similar thing was said.

 

[jon.a]

I ignored this thread until today.

Last week I got some Benign Paroxysmal Positional Vertigo (BPPV). It's pissing me off.
So, we went to the urgent care clinic , no appointment needed. I chose that because it's in the same medical center as my family doctor and they have everything in that building. So, I figured if the attending wanted some help, he could just make some calls.

There are specific procedures that doctors can do to try and help the condition. I was expecting him to suggest one of them after the doctor came to my diagnoses. He agreed with my self-diagnosis. I let him come to his own conclusion, before I shared that I was sure that was what was happening to me.

But no, he wanted me to go on a cleansing fast. 3-10 days, as much as I can tolerate to clean the crap out of my system.
Now I understand that this BPPV often clears up in a couple of weeks, so he might just be giving me "busy work" but I figured the fast won't hurt me so I started this morning.

I'm going to shoot for 10 days. I need to lose some weight. My baseline is 208 on my scale. It reads low. I'll be happy if I get under 200.

Mrs jon is doing this too.

So, breakfast this morning was homemade lemonade. We're both peeing a lot.

 

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[GuestUser450]

So, breakfast this morning was homemade lemonade.

Just wondering if you're watching total carbs or if that was recommended? I'd think that sugar intake on a liquid fast without anything to lower insulin might be an issue.

 

[#nowhere]

@jon.a

Hope you are doing better now and recover well. Wish you the best!

dont want to offend you, but the body starts to burn off all shit (autophagy) after hour 24 of the fast. This means that the body burns older protein structures of the body and renews them. The garbage is washed out..

Fasting, according to this definition, means NO insulin ouput into the body system. As long as every food and sugared liquid leads to insulin ejection this means water-, tea- and Coffee-onlyfast. Maybe some homemade bone broth for sodium issues.

Only then autophagy can make it's job: to wash out the crap of your body.

 

[jon.a]

Just wondering if you're watching total carbs or if that was recommended? I'd think that sugar intake on a liquid fast without anything to lower insulin might be an issue.

Yeah, I went way down on carbs a few years ago.
No bread, pasta etc.

 

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[FastNAwesome]

@jon.a much luck with the fast and quick recovery.

 

[jon.a]

Day one is in the books...
Jon -3.2
Mrs jon -3.6
Of course this might be mostly water but it felt good to see on the scale.
I feel fine. Mrs jon not so much.
I had 8 glasses of lemonade, Mrs jon could only force down 5 glasses.

I ignored this thread until today.

Last week I got some Benign Paroxysmal Positional Vertigo (BPPV). It's pissing me off.
So, we went to the urgent care clinic , no appointment needed. I chose that because it's in the same medical center as my family doctor and they have everything in that building. So, I figured if the attending wanted some help, he could just make some calls.

There are specific procedures that doctors can do to try and help the condition. I was expecting him to suggest one of them after the doctor came to my diagnoses. He agreed with my self-diagnosis. I let him come to his own conclusion, before I shared that I was sure that was what was happening to me.

But no, he wanted me to go on a cleansing fast. 3-10 days, as much as I can tolerate to clean the crap out of my system.
Now I understand that this BPPV often clears up in a couple of weeks, so he might just be giving me "busy work" but I figured the fast won't hurt me so I started this morning.

I'm going to shoot for 10 days. I need to lose some weight. My baseline is 208 on my scale. It reads low. I'll be happy if I get under 200.

Mrs jon is doing this too.

So, breakfast this morning was homemade lemonade. We're both peeing a lot.

 

[G-Man]

Day one is in the books...
Jon -3.2
Mrs jon -3.6
Of course this might be mostly water but it felt good to see on the scale.
I feel fine. Mrs jon not so much.
I had 8 glasses of lemonade, Mrs jon could only force down 5 glasses.

Do you really think it's busy work, or is it to just let your system rest a bit so it can recover?

Also, 2 people sharing a house together and not eating for 3-10 days? Good luck.

 

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[jon.a]

Day 2 done...
jon + .02
Mrs jon - 3.6
day to day change

I feel embarrassingly fine. Mrs jon is struggling.
8 glasses for me. I think I'll drop to 7. Mrs jon is only able to choke down 5 that explains her extra loss and probably part of her not feeling well. The experts say the minimum is 6. If she can't get down 6 today, I'm going to suggest she stop after day 3 tomorrow.

Day one is in the books...
Jon -3.2
Mrs jon -3.6
Of course this might be mostly water but it felt good to see on the scale.
I feel fine. Mrs jon not so much.
I had 8 glasses of lemonade, Mrs jon could only force down 5 glasses.

 

[jon.a]

Do you really think it's busy work, or is it to just let your system rest a bit so it can recover?

Also, 2 people sharing a house together and not eating for 3-10 days? Good luck.

I don't know or really care if it is a bit of busy work. The odds are greatly in favor of it helping me, so I'm doing it.

We are a team so we had to at least start together. Who stops first, well that's a competition.

 

[JAJT]

Can you explain the lemonade?

Every fasting resource and expert interview I've ever looked into all take a pretty solid "no sugar" approach as the entire benefits of fasting are a result of your body fueling itself through ketones rather than glucose.

Once you are in ketosis (fueling your body through ketones), you can mimic the ketosis state (and stay in ketosis) through a macronutrient profile that keeps your body in that state (mostly fat, some protein, and less than 20g of carbs).

So the lemonade makes absolutely no sense to what you are trying to do from my understanding. You are really on a liquid sugar diet rather than a fasting or ketosis diet and everything I know is telling me you won't see the benefits you expect.

Now, I'm not a doctor, and absolutely listen to your doctor, but I am genuinely confused how you could be both prescribed fasting and sugar at the same time as (to me) they are like oil and water in terms of what you are trying to do.

Would love to learn more.

 

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[jon.a]

I'm saying lemonade as tongue in check. We're doing the "Master Cleans Diet" (it googles easy)
I just call it lemonade. It's the worst lemonade I've ever had.

Can you explain the lemonade?

Every fasting resource and expert interview I've ever looked into all take a pretty solid "no sugar" approach as the entire benefits of fasting are a result of your body fueling itself through ketones rather than glucose.

Once you are in ketosis (fueling your body through ketones), you can mimic the ketosis state (and stay in ketosis) through a macronutrient profile that keeps your body in that state (mostly fat, some protein, and less than 20g of carbs).

So the lemonade makes absolutely no sense to what you are trying to do from my understanding. You are really on a liquid sugar diet rather than a fasting or ketosis diet and everything I know is telling me you won't see the benefits you expect.

Now, I'm not a doctor, and absolutely listen to your doctor, but I am genuinely confused how you could be both prescribed fasting and sugar at the same time as (to me) they are like oil and water in terms of what you are trying to do.

Would love to learn more.

 

[JAJT]

Interesting.

I googled it (albeit briefly) and it seemed pretty fad-like. Lots of talk on "detoxifying" without any real definitions of what that means, or why the ingredients are important (although I suspect syrup for energy, cayenne for appetite suppression, and lemons for flavor). Or the physical results from a biological standpoint.

Maybe the first few results I googled were just bad examples of the benefits but it reads very much like "trust me, it works, because other people did it and it works, and it's really old, but it works.... toxins.... flush.... natural....heal... repair...".

The kinds of things that really get me excited tend to be heavily medical and measurement based things. An excellent example of what I'm talking about would be this podcast from Tim Ferriss talking to Dom D'Agostino on fasting: Dom D’Agostino on Fasting, Ketosis, and the End of Cancer

All the talk of science, biology, measured results, blood tests, peer reviews, etc... really wins me over to believing that they genuinely know what they are talking about and genuinely want to learn more about it. I actually just listened to Tim's podcast today with an except from the above interview and Tim wanted to hear about strength training under ketosis and Dom even went out of his way to say that it's still being reviewed and that the first review failed and required some re-work. That kind of disclaimer and honesty really makes me think "this guy cares about the truth more than his own beliefs".

I of course do not mean to "shit on" your progress and attempts to better your health. I'd hate for that to be how this comes off as I highly respect you and always encourage self betterment in all it's forms. I just wanted to share my (very limited) knowledge on what I've learned in my short time diving into this stuff.

Regardless - I do hope it works as well for you as you want it to all the same