How to Learn Code, Start a Web Company, $15k+ per month within 9 months

[Fox]

This topic is great and has really got me thinking about myself and what I'm doing.
I have a few questions if that's ok:

1. What form do your proposals/quotations take? Is it a slick document or do you send options in an email?
2. How long do you spend on a typical proposal? I guess this depends on the complexity of the project, but let's say for a basic company website that includes a homepage, about section, news section, services section and contact. Would you supply price options for a project like this?
3. When you come up with your price, do you offer any justification in your proposal? e.g. you know the website should generate 200k of business so you come in at 20k. Do you justify this in the proposal or would wait to see their response? How do you do this - send your proposal and then follow up with a call once they've had chance look over it?

1) My proposals are casual but my quotes are professional. I try purposely to come off as a normal Joe. I don't want a polished sales letter or slick approach. I am aiming for an authentic connection with a person and showing them I can help. @SinisterLex has so much content on this but show how you can add value and put in the time before you get a deal to show them you have work ethic. List specifics - broken links, errors, poor content, mistakes, while showing where you can add value.

In general:
What is stopping sales? (what can be removed or fixed)
What could help get more sales? (what can be added or improved on)

You are selling sales, show them how exactly you will get them more results. Tell them why it will work. Describe how it will be done.

2) I sell results. I talk about what the end product will do and how it will work. I actually don't know a lot of time the time how I will fix it until after I get my deposit. I don't have time to come up with solutions for jobs that I never get. I tell them what will be done and then if they bite I start figuring out how I will actually do that. All the solutions already exist so don't concern yourself with those. Sell the end product, not the particulars as to how it will be achieved.

Price depends on value added. Whats their typical sales? How much value will you add? What is the best possible result from having a decent website (directly from the site, not the business as a whole)?
Aim for 5-20% of the yearly figure for the above. If it seems like it might be too small you are targeting the wrong business.

3) I send it and see what they say. After a week if nothing back I email. If still no response I call. Although I break my own rules all the time.


All my rules can be broken if you are targeting the right companies with enough value.
No one really cares how you fix their problem if its big enough and it seems like you are the right guy for the job.

If my granny is having a heart attack I don't care if the doctor arrives by car or on a skateboard as long as he gets the job done.

Focus on the problem. Show them the solution. Add value. All else will be forgiven if you cover those three bases.

 

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[Fox]

Don't make things harder then they have to be...


Aim for big companies
with terrible websites
with clear cashflow
in obscure industries
who need help

​

Also high on the list are elevator installers and repairers, with a mean annual salary of $77 ,350. The BLS describes the responsibilities of this job as to “install, fix, and maintain elevators, escalators, moving walkways, and other lifts.” In 2015, the Sacramento-Roseville-Arden-Arcade, California metro area, where elevator installers and repairers earn a mean annual wage of $111,350, was the most lucrative place to hold this job.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kathryndill/2016/06/10/10691/#617fbd88386b

If the job pays well then the company makes even more. A few more elevator repair jobs a year could be $XXX,XXX

How many kids who can code are calling up elevator repair companies?
None.

This is one of 1000's blue collar niches no one is catering too. While everyone is trying to build the next app no one is focusing on this.

 

[Lex DeVille]

If the job pays well then the company makes even more. A few more elevator repair jobs a year could be $XXX,XXX

How many kids who know how to code are calling up elevator repair companies?
None.

This is one of 1000's blue collar niches no one is catering too. While everyone is trying to build the next app no one is focusing on this.

Funny you mention that...

The first website I ever sold was an elevator repair company. $1000...it was an upsell from a copywriting gig lol.

 

[JDx]

Fox, I have/had a client specific question but I guess posting it in here might help others.
Currently I've made 4 websites, 2 of which are my own (1 for the webshop I run, 1 my personal page with portfolio), 1 for a restaurant which I did for free and 1 which is almost finished and I've presented but not yet received feedback on. Was looking to ask a few hundred bucks for this one.

Your post above just removed my first question, which was if I should approach a very small local guy who has a 'cab' service to create a paid website for him. He seems very small so perhaps I'm better off looking for the big industries/clients like you say. His website looks like its made with Frontpage in 2004 lol.

You said your first jobs were either free or for 100-200 bucks up until around 8 sites and you started asking/taking on bigger jobs (2K+).

Whats your advice? Should I do some more small jobs to build experience or just go for a big one? I have most of the basics down, loading times are all 500ms or less, I've managed making non-responsive sites work fine on mobile etc.

Also; A friend of mine has around 60K subs on Youtube, a nice social media presence but no website. First thought was to set up a wordpress blog for her. I'm not very experienced with Wordpress and getting it all working well with social media, which I guess can be a headache. Do you figure this could be a nice client or would you recommend just going for the non-sexy niches?

(I know, I know, the forum won't make decisions for me, but looking for an experienced POV)

Thanks in advance

 

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[Fox]

Profitable service, large city...

Is paying for adwords...

***They must have a brand new website with sales funnel***

...

...

...



Nope.

Just one of millions of businesses that need your help.

Not all heroes wear a mask.​

 

[Lex DeVille]

View attachment 13349

Profitable service, large city...

Is paying for adwords...

***They must have a brand new website with sales funnel***

...

...

...

View attachment 13350

Nope.

Just one of millions of businesses that need your help.

Not all heroes wear a mask.​

I wonder if someone manages those ads for them...

You would probably save their business by designing a new site so all that traffic doesn't go to waste.

 

[Fox]

Fox, I have/had a client specific question but I guess posting it in here might help others.
Currently I've made 4 websites, 2 of which are my own (1 for the webshop I run, 1 my personal page with portfolio), 1 for a restaurant which I did for free and 1 which is almost finished and I've presented but not yet received feedback on. Was looking to ask a few hundred bucks for this one.

Your post above just removed my first question, which was if I should approach a very small local guy who has a 'cab' service to create a paid website for him. He seems very small so perhaps I'm better off looking for the big industries/clients like you say. His website looks like its made with Frontpage in 2004 lol.

You said your first jobs were either free or for 100-200 bucks up until around 8 sites and you started asking/taking on bigger jobs (2K+).

Whats your advice? Should I do some more small jobs to build experience or just go for a big one? I have most of the basics down, loading times are all 500ms or less, I've managed making non-responsive sites work fine on mobile etc.

Also; A friend of mine has around 60K subs on Youtube, a nice social media presence but no website. First thought was to set up a wordpress blog for her. I'm not very experienced with Wordpress and getting it all working well with social media, which I guess can be a headache. Do you figure this could be a nice client or would you recommend just going for the non-sexy niches?

(I know, I know, the forum won't make decisions for me, but looking for an experienced POV)

Thanks in advance

If you don't mind working for free (or cheap) these are two excellent businesses.

Taxi Cab guy - high profile business, word of mouth, high visability

These type of portfolio jobs are great for comparing numbers later in the game... "oh you have 8 dumber trucks on the road, I did a website for a guy with 18 taxis last month". It convinces under businesses you can handle the responsibility of companies with a lot going on.

* Let's say he only has 3 cars - "he has 150 customers a week" - milk the stats.

Same with the YouTube girl. 60,000 sounds very good for when you are pitching the bigger companies later. Imagine her yearly view count.

Milk these stats and create sites that will help you sell later. I did the same with a pro athlete.

Other businesses look at stats not as revenue. If you can show you have done higher stats (even if its way lower revenue) they will feel safe buying off you.

 

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[QDF]

Don't make things harder then they have to be...


Aim for big companies
with terrible websites
with clear cashflow
in obscure industries
who need help

​

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kathryndill/2016/06/10/10691/#617fbd88386b

If the job pays well then the company makes even more. A few more elevator repair jobs a year could be $XXX,XXX

How many kids who know how to code are calling up elevator repair companies?
None.

This is one of 1000's blue collar niches no one is catering too. While everyone is trying to build the next app no one is focusing on this.

Wow.

Just googled "elevator repair companies" + my state, and found a company with 13 employees, that does over $2.7 million annual revenue, and still has a site that was built in 2008.

And they're not the only one I found either

UPDATE: Just called them - found out the guy is 84 and still running his business. Incredible. Is actually on vacation until the 24th though...bummer

 

[Fox]

I wonder if someone manages those ads for them...

You would probably save their business by designing a new site so all that traffic doesn't go to waste.

save their business

save their business

save their business

Lex is 100% right.

Its not even sales, its saving them. Imagine how easy that call will be.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Hey Fox, you ever think about graduating to wordpress? It's got a pretty steep learning curve and you need php to mess with it but it allows so much more with expansion and plugins, ecommerce, etc. I found html and css to be really easy and simple for a static page but not for a dynamic page with logins, and things like that.

What's a typical sales cycle for you? About a month?

Do you prefer cold call or emails? My manager always debated me on this but I do emails over calls at least for the first 2 contacts.

 

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[Fox]

Hey Fox, you ever think about graduating to wordpress? It's got a pretty steep learning curve and you need php to mess with it but it allows so much more with expansion and plugins, ecommerce, etc. I found html and css to be really easy and simple for a static page but not for a dynamic page with logins, and things like that.

What's a typical sales cycle for you? About a month?

Do you prefer cold call or emails? My manager always debated me on this but I do emails over calls at least for the first 2 contacts.

I really should learn WordPress but I am kept busy as is. Maybe next year after I finish my Spanish course. I have a lot of my plate at the moment. It is actually kind of funny - we do an exercise every morning in class where you talk about what you did in the prior evening. Most students talk about them going for a walk or maybe to the cinema. I talk about coding my new project, pitching a few companies, running a web design course and a few of the particulars of other projects I have going on. Quiero tener ingresos pasivos. We got a new teacher last week who said half joking "can I come work for you". I hired her after class for commission on some sales haha.

HTML is fine for what I do for now though.


Typical sales cycle is 2-3 weeks. I learned a module in University that I really liked called programing. Its not about code but about overlapping processes on a construction project to maximize project output. In short by doing certain things in a certain order you can speed up a project A LOT. I have a very fast process I use to get projects done as quick as possible. If the client is fast I can do a 10 page (6-8k) site within a week. Content nearly always holds me up, or hosting access.

Sales I switch up by how I feel will work best. Its case by case. Plus I outsource over 50% of sales too.

 

[Denim Chicken]

I really should learn WordPress but I am kept busy as is. Maybe next year after I finish my Spanish course. I have a lot of my plate at the moment. It is actually kind of funny - we do an exercise every morning in class where you talk about what you did in the prior evening. Most students talk about them going for a walk or maybe to the cinema. I talk about coding my new project, pitching a few companies, running a web design course and a few of the particulars of other projects I have going on. Quiero tener ingresos pasivos. We got a new teacher last week who said half joking "can I come work for you". I hired her after class for commission on some sales haha.

HTML is fine for what I do for now though.


Typical sales cycle is 2-3 weeks. I learned a module in University that I really liked called programing. Its not about code but about overlapping processes on a construction project to maximize project output. In short by doing certain things in a certain order you can speed up a project A LOT. I have a very fast process I use to get projects done as quick as possible. If the client is fast I can do a 10 page (6-8k) site within a week. Content nearly always holds me up, or hosting access.

Sales I switch up by how I feel will work best. Its case by case. Plus I outsource over 50% of sales too.

Very cool, seems like you got a good system going!

 

[m500]

I actually don't know a lot of time the time how I will fix it until after I get my deposit. I don't have time to come up with solutions for jobs that I never get.

I'm an idiot and I do this all the time at the moment. Spec things out, discuss every little thing in advance, write it all down, try to itemise all the costs. FFS.

The stupid thing is I usually know almost straight away in my gut how much the job should cost!

Focus on the problem. Show them the solution. Add value. All else will be forgiven if you cover those three bases.

Great advice and so simple.

In your quotes that you prepare do you actually mention figures e.g. the website should generate $XXX,000 of sales in year one?

The thing I worry about (and someone touched on this earlier in the thread) is people taking that as a guarantee/holding you to quoted figures.

 

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[Denim Chicken]

I'm an idiot and I do this all the time at the moment. Spec things out, discuss every little thing in advance, write it all down, try to itemise all the costs. FFS.

The stupid thing is I usually know almost straight away in my gut how much the job should cost!


Great advice and so simple.

In your quotes that you prepare do you actually mention figures e.g. the website should generate $XXX,000 of sales in year one?

The thing I worry about (and someone touched on this earlier in the thread) is people taking that as a guarantee/holding you to quoted figures.

Never promise something you can't deliver. I would never promise revenue or bring up specific numbers. Frame it as ROI

 

[SuperDuper]

Would you offer clients a money back guarantee? If they are not satisfied with the results you return their deposit, although it's a bit risky.

 

[JDx]

Would you offer clients a money back guarantee? If they are not satisfied with the results you return their deposit, although it's a bit risky.

If I may answer for Fox here;
Fox mentioned he makes changes free of charge for 1 month. After that he charges XX per hour for any changes or edits.
So, if the customer is not happy, he has 1 month to let you know what he DOES want/like.

edit: so you don't do refunds

 

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[Fox]

Would you offer clients a money back guarantee? If they are not satisfied with the results you return their deposit, although it's a bit risky.

In the beginning you could offer a "don't want it don't buy it" type policy. If they are not happy then they don't have to pay but they don't get the site. Giving someone something for free that they don't like is a bad idea and I don't see it helping in anyway. Anyone who ever asks about the website will just hear about the negatives.

Anyway this scenario is unlikely with real clients. The only people who have tried pulling this on me are $150 websites off upwork. When you deal with people who want work done for that price they can be a nightmare. A real company will be a lot easier to deal with and will be a lot more professional.

This all assumes you actually do good sites of course.

 

[Chimp]

I have started to learn how to create websites to follow this path and came across this site: https://www.angieslist.com/services.htm

For some reason I couldn't think of any big money service businesses and couldn't find any real list. If you're looking to find business niches to create sites for, here's a huge list.

There isn't a lot of businesses on there that make big sales like oil and construction but it can get you an idea of what to look for.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Hey Fox, have you ever run into a company that wants more customization than you can handle? Say your product is only html and css and fairly static but their objection is they want x, y, z, and they want the ability to have a login and this and that. Or they have a bunch of product details and such that would be suited for a cms type system?

 

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[Fox]

Hey Fox, have you ever run into a company that wants more customization than you can handle? Say your product is only html and css and fairly static but their objection is they want x, y, z, and they want the ability to have a login and this and that. Or they have a bunch of product details and such that would be suited for a cms type system?

Ya I usually either out source it or try sell them something else if it makes sense. I have turned down a few big jobs because I am not the right guy for the job. One example is a large clothing brand that would want to change product a lot. They are better off going with a different developer.

I only target what I can do though and referrals come from from sites similar to what I have done already so it doesn't happen much.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Ya I usually either out source it or try sell them something else if it makes sense. I have turned down a few big jobs because I am not the right guy for the job. One example is a large clothing brand that would want to change product a lot. They are better off going with a different developer.

I only target what I can do though and referrals come from from sites similar to what I have done already so it doesn't happen much.

Thats cool. For those big jobs, did you ever think about finding someone who does that type of work and just cutting a sales cut?

 

[Andy Black]

I really should learn WordPress

You really shouldn't. You should hire people who know Wordpress.

 

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[Sbshields]

If you have a good feel for sales, design and adding value I think it would be well suited.

I would say something like this:

- Weeks 0 - 6, just learn code, design and the basics
- Weeks 6 - 10, do two free designs
- Weeks 10 - 5, do 5 basic one week jobs on upwork for pennies (good luck making more than $300 a job)
- Weeks 15+, Start selling properly to real companies. At least two $2500 Jobs a month.
- Weeks 25-30+, Jump up to larger 5-15k jobs

Thank you for this great post!

 

[devine]

You really shouldn't. You should hire people who know Wordpress.

Not efficient.
Wordpress is a tool, like a pen and paper. Learning wordpress saves much more time than outsourcing.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Not efficient.
Wordpress is a tool, like a pen and paper. Learning wordpress saves much more time than outsourcing.

And if you learn it with a friend you'll both know it and you can pay them to do it for you!

This reminds me of Wolf of Wall Street. Brought friends into his business. Showed em' how to make money. Let them work for him.

Everybody's happy. Everybody wins. Til they all went to jail of course... but that's beside the point.

 

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[Sbshields]

Just did an hour Skype with someone just getting started. Really nice to pass on all the info that will save the weeks/months I spent figuring it out for myself.

If @MJ DeMarco can make it happen I would like to do an INSIDERS call for this. Its not mega millions but I think 1-2 hours will be enough to get anyone interested started towards a 5-10k monthly income after a few months.

If people are interested in something like this let me know. I have gotten a lot of PMs and while I try my best its not going to be possible to Skype everyone for an hour.

Would luv to get in that call!

I've used Divi for a lot of websites. Overall I think it's really flexible, plus the price you pay includes a BUNCH of other free themes on top of Divi and for $30 bucks more you get all their plugins too. You can pretty much build anything on Divi and it's relatively easy to learn plus well-supported on the customer service side. It's a yearly fee, but considering what you get it's worth it. A LOT of developers use it now as a go-to theme for WordPress client sites.

I use Divi and the annual membership fee is a bargain when you consider the design packets you get with it. It's by far the easiest theme I've used to date.

 

[devine]

And if you learn it with a friend you'll both know it and you can pay them to do it for you!

This reminds me of Wolf of Wall Street. Brought friends into his business. Showed em' how to make money. Let them work for him.

Everybody's happy. Everybody wins. Til they all went to jail of course... but that's beside the point.

Exactly. Then friends dive into other skills deeply, while everyone in your team knows all the basics.
Productivity x10.

 

[Fox]

Ha some funny posts.

I will eventually learn it, the main reason being for my own business I need a website that can do features like favorites, feedback, reviews etc. All in due time though.

At the moment the companies I target have 99% permanent content. A HTML site is fine since its going to be roughly the same for the next 3 years anyway. I have built some wordpress elements such as a news page, job listings, etc. but I outsource the whole section for $50-100. I am more than happy to have someone else to do it for that price. I actually found them on a Udemy course FB group (good place to scout out some workers).

 

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[Andy Black]

Not efficient.
Wordpress is a tool, like a pen and paper. Learning wordpress saves much more time than outsourcing.

My point was that the business owner should be building the business, not building websites.

 

[Martinv678]

So I said in the thread before I would add a simple boilerplate which makes building HTML easier using Node / Handlebars. I will leave the link here. It looks a little crazy at first but is easy to get your head around an makes it super simple once you know it. Hopefully speeding up your development time.

https://bitbucket.org/mvirando/quic...1cde1ab80cb392a44c97bc081fae71f3123?at=master

P.M if you need help or guidance. I'm also on Skype if needed.

UPDATE: You will need to install Node / NPM / Git to download and run.