How do I become the sales person I need to be?

[Rincewind]

I am a software developer.

This is how I thought about myself for many years. I studied IT, made a diploma and a MSC. I worked for companies and wrote software for them. Then I started freelancing six years ago.

I get very good hourly rates for my freelancing, but basically I changed the form of employment. It's slowlane, but at least it's not the sidewalk. But I get all my clients just because of the skills I have. I don't solve real problems. They want xyz coded and I do it. I get my hourly rates because there are not so many highly educated people with the specific experiences like mine.

I started my first "own" company four years ago. I created a web app that solves decision problems (like the website from the fastlane book, just with lots of unneeded details). I thought: "Well, I'm a software developer, so I need a co-founder with sales experience". I found one.

He could sell himself very well, but he couldn't sell our product. It was too generic to solve a real problem, so I think nobody could really sell that product. But the point is, I had no idea about selling and I didn't start learning that day.

My biggest lesson learned from that first company was the classic one. We built something that no one needed. We didn't solve a problem. So I started learning to spot problems and needs. Currently I talk to 100 freelaners / software agencies, to learn about their problems and needs. I will create my next product around the needs and problems of freelance software developers. Since I'm a software developer and freelancer myself, I can easily connect and I know most of their pains myself.

But now I'm at this point:

• I know how to create products
• I start knowing if there is a real need
• I wont build too complex and too big solutions anymore
• But I don't know how or where to sell them...

That's not completely true. I read lots of books and I started reading about sales and marketing some years ago. Now I know all this stuff in theory but I don't have real experience. I know to build fast websites, so I could learn copywriting. I start gathering contacts form my freelance interviews, so I could start learning direct marketing skills to prospect them later. I know some things about SEO, I could get better here. I used Adwords sometimes, so I could get better here, too.

But where do I start? I don't think that I need all marketing / sales skills. As a software developer I try to get a T-Shaped profile. I know one aspect very deep (scalable web apps) and I know basic stuff about many other parts (e.g. Deployment, Testing, UX, ...)

I want to build software products, since this is one of my biggest strengths. I also like writing, so info products will be other products. What kind of marketing skills do I need to practice for these kinds of products? And more important: Which skills can I ignore for the start?

How did you become the best sales person for exactly the products you create and sell?

 

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[OntheEdge]

You had the right idea with your first business. Hire (or partner with) sales talent. I'm good at sales and marketing but I can't code. That wouldn't keep me out of the software business. Henry Ford wasn't an engineer, he didn't let that stop him from being a pioneer in the automotive industry. Sales may not be a good match for your skill set and that's ok. Develop a product that satisfies a need and allow your sales professionals to close the sales.

 

[devine]

Best salespeople don't sell.
They showcase.

pm'd you with a list of literature to read.

 

[Greg Black]

But where do I start? I don't think that I need all marketing / sales skills. As a software developer I try to get a T-Shaped profile. I know one aspect very deep (scalable web apps) and I know basic stuff about many other parts (e.g. Deployment, Testing, UX, ...)

I want to build software products, since this is one of my biggest strengths. I also like writing, so info products will be other products. What kind of marketing skills do I need to practice for these kinds of products? And more important: Which skills can I ignore for the start?

How did you become the best sales person for exactly the products you create and sell?

Don't try and be something that you aren't.

My experience in the Saas world has shown me that a fantastic product highly targeted at a specific market is the way to go.

As you've said it needs to address real problems. You must be clear about who it is for and what value it brings. If you do this marketing is so much simpler. It is easy to get it in front of your target market.

If it is truly great and delivers massive value, your customers will become your sales and marketing engine.

There are other ways to proceed but generally they need large amounts of investment to burn on marketing and brand building.

One way to start is to go narrow, can you produce something that brings massive value, that initially 100 people would be willing to pay $100 per month for? That's $10K BTW.

Start narrow, then widen out.

Build value for a hyper niche.

Go broader later.

PS - another great strategy that requires little sales and marketing is to build an add-on to an existing system where there is already a thriving ecosystem, like Shopify, Infusionsoft, Salesforce, Magento etc.

 

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[Vigilante]

I am a software developer.

This is how I thought about myself for many years. I studied IT, made a diploma and a MSC. I worked for companies and wrote software for them. Then I started freelancing six years ago.

I get very good hourly rates for my freelancing, but basically I changed the form of employment. It's slowlane, but at least it's not the sidewalk. But I get all my clients just because of the skills I have. I don't solve real problems. They want xyz coded and I do it. I get my hourly rates because there are not so many highly educated people with the specific experiences like mine.

I started my first "own" company four years ago. I created a web app that solves decision problems (like the website from the fastlane book, just with lots of unneeded details). I thought: "Well, I'm a software developer, so I need a co-founder with sales experience". I found one.

He could sell himself very well, but he couldn't sell our product. It was too generic to solve a real problem, so I think nobody could really sell that product. But the point is, I had no idea about selling and I didn't start learning that day.

My biggest lesson learned from that first company was the classic one. We built something that no one needed. We didn't solve a problem. So I started learning to spot problems and needs. Currently I talk to 100 freelaners / software agencies, to learn about their problems and needs. I will create my next product around the needs and problems of freelance software developers. Since I'm a software developer and freelancer myself, I can easily connect and I know most of their pains myself.

But now I'm at this point:

• I know how to create products
• I start knowing if there is a real need
• I wont build too complex and too big solutions anymore
• But I don't know how or where to sell them...

That's not completely true. I read lots of books and I started reading about sales and marketing some years ago. Now I know all this stuff in theory but I don't have real experience. I know to build fast websites, so I could learn copywriting. I start gathering contacts form my freelance interviews, so I could start learning direct marketing skills to prospect them later. I know some things about SEO, I could get better here. I used Adwords sometimes, so I could get better here, too.

But where do I start? I don't think that I need all marketing / sales skills. As a software developer I try to get a T-Shaped profile. I know one aspect very deep (scalable web apps) and I know basic stuff about many other parts (e.g. Deployment, Testing, UX, ...)

I want to build software products, since this is one of my biggest strengths. I also like writing, so info products will be other products. What kind of marketing skills do I need to practice for these kinds of products? And more important: Which skills can I ignore for the start?

How did you become the best sales person for exactly the products you create and sell?

Attend Dale Carnegie classes.
http://www.dalecarnegie.de/

 

[GuestUser450]

I have a different opinion from most on this.

A lifetime ago, I forced myself and my employees to go through sales training (sandler). Bought the books, went to seminars, built sales from the ground up. I learned that the function of sales is the lifeblood of your co. But the techniques, scripts and approach of sales don't matter. Blasphemous, I know.

Look at who's growing in software and everywhere else. It's community-based. Slack, Tesla, One Plus One, on and on. Massive growth without "sales". They're not cold-calling, they're engineering advocacy.

We have to build the community, a place for the advocates.

Why? Because we have to think backwards from a customer leaving. I went to a conference for software sales/growth and every single speaker talked about retention and reducing churn. Not acquisition.

Paid media is straightforward. Traffic is relatively easy and conversions, to an extent, are too. But retention is incredibly hard and worth cracking.

TL;DR - Create content, build a list.

 

[Rincewind]

Attend Dale Carnegie classes.
http://www.dalecarnegie.de/

I will have a look, there are two classes this year in Berlin. Do you recommend a specific class? On the website are different ones. I read the page for the "professional selling" class.

 

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[Vigilante]

I will have a look, there are two classes this year in Berlin. Do you recommend a specific class? On the website are different ones. I read the page for the "professional selling" class.

That one would work. Anything that can draw you into the mindset. Call them and ask them. Tell them what you want to become, and have them tell you what steps to take that might help you. It helped me immensely.

 

[Rincewind]

I have a different opinion from most on this.

TL;DR - Create content, build a list.

I believe there is much truth in that. But to create great content I would need to become what? A great copywriter? A good speaker? In the end there are again these "marketing" skills you need for your users/readers/clients to find out about you.

Slack is a good example. There are many other similar tools. I'm sure there were some before slack came along. What did the slack founders do different? Did they really go without marketing?

My goal is a great product, delivering great value to people who really need it. I'm on my way to find needs and I can build products, I just try to find out what I need to learn to let people know I'm there

 

[Rincewind]

Best salespeople don't sell.
They showcase.

pm'd you with a list of literature to read.

Thank you for the list! I will post it here for the others who might be interested:

- Made To Stick by Cheap & Dan Heath
- Scientific Advertising by Claude Hopkins
- Built To Sell by John Warrillow
- Zero To One by Peter Thiel & Blake Masters

I already read "made to stick" and "Zero to One". This is my short version from my memory, I have written some pages in my personal wiki while I read them.

Made to stick: Tell stories. Don't bury the lead.

Zero to One: All great companies are monopolies. Most of them just don't seem so. Don't follow trends, try to spot rising trends and build upon them.

Made to Stick has a great framework to create the story. Zero to One has more "smaller" takeaways, I would need to look in my wiki to remember all of them.

Both books changed my mindset, so I will definitely read the two other ones.

 

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[Rincewind]

You had the right idea with your first business. Hire (or partner with) sales talent. I'm good at sales and marketing but I can't code. That wouldn't keep me out of the software business. Henry Ford wasn't an engineer, he didn't let that stop him from being a pioneer in the automotive industry. Sales may not be a good match for your skill set and that's ok. Develop a product that satisfies a need and allow your sales professionals to close the sales.

I just read the book "ready, fire, aim", that convinced me to learn more about sales/marketing. Surely I will get professionals to help me with selling, but I realize that I don't know enough to tell how good they are.

I can build software products myself, but I can also outsource it and be sure that I know the quality of the delivered work.

 

[Rincewind]

Don't try and be something that you aren't.

My experience in the Saas world has shown me that a fantastic product highly targeted at a specific market is the way to go.

That's true, I don't want to fake something. But I know that I can talk about my products the one way or the other. One way (asking questions, solving problems, addressing pain points, ...) will make people buy my products (when they need them). The other way (talking about me, my technology, my skills, features, ...) will not make people buy my products, even when they need them.

But the idea with the narrow niche is good, I will try to use it for my current research. Thank you!

 

[GuestUser450]

...to create great content I would need to become what?

Just transparent. For example, Basecamp: by my conservative estimates, they make 10s of millions and the only marketing they've ever done is content (their blog and books). They became popular because they picked fights, talked inside baseball, and wore their hearts on their sleeves. What does any of that to do with project management? Nothing; people want to be in the tribe, the community, to be associated.

Did they really go without marketing?

No, they just see every interaction as marketing. If I remember right, they had a super long beta and mined those teams to make a complex product easy to use, but more importantly, share. Like dropbox, where you get extra space by signing up everyone you know, their marketing is baked into the product.

 

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[Andy Black]

I'm an ex IT contractor turned AdWords contractor, turned AdWords freelancer, turned AdWords agency owner, turning into a business owner/entrepreneur.

All this has happened in less than 12 months.



The first step was when I realised my job wasn't to DO the work, but to GET the work (aka "sales"). My job was to grow my business by getting more work. I couldn't therefore be the only person who performed that work otherwise I'd end up doing too much damn work and effectively become a victim of my own success.



The second step was when I realised I was selling the wrong product entirely.

Yes, get good at selling. We're selling all the time, even if it's to sell watching Kung Fu Panda instead of Finding Nemo. Even if it's to sell going to the Chinese restaurant instead of the Italian.

Except realise that if you're the only person doing the sales in your business, that if no-one else can do it, then you've not got a repeatable and scalable sales process. Which means you're less able to step back from your business, and sell your business if you wanted.

Here's a short video I created when I realised this:

• You're selling the wrong product

I've never taken any formal sales training. I don't recall reading any sales books. Yet I've been told I'm good at it, and that I probably shouldn't read any sales books and screw up what I've already got.

I think my "trick" is that I have empathy and genuinely want to help people. If I can help them with AdWords - great. If not, then maybe I can help them some other way. Or maybe I can't help at all, which is fine too.

Here's a radio interview where I discuss this mindset:

• The biggest reason websites suck

And a thread:

• Clarity of purpose

Here's another video where I screwed up a sales pitch. It's my post-mortem:

• How I screwed up a sales pitch

And here's a chat one freelancer consultant type had with another freelance consultant type:

• AndyTalks with The-J

Other useful sales related threads:

• The biggest reason landing pages suck
• Show don't tell
• The crowd isn't starving
• How to write an About Us page
• How I often sell AdWords
• You don't need a website, you need sales
• You already know enough

Also, if you want to learn AdWords, check out this index of posts:

• Andy's AdWords posts

Good luck!

 

[Rincewind]

You know, their marketing is baked into the product.

Thank you for that great insight! I've heart that sentence so often now, but this is the first time I think I understood it...

The other point you mentioned, that they see every interaction as marketing is another good one. I will keep that in mind when I start building the next thing.

 

[Rincewind]

I'm an ex IT contractor turned AdWords contractor, turned AdWords freelancer, turned AdWords agency owner, turning into a business owner/entrepreneur.

All this has happened in less than 12 months.



The first step was when I realised my job wasn't to DO the work, but to GET the work (aka "sales"). My job was to grow my business by getting more work. I couldn't therefore be the only person who performed that work otherwise I'd end up doing too much damn work and effectively become a victim of my own success.



The second step was when I realised I was selling the wrong product entirely.

Yes, get good at selling. We're selling all the time, even if it's to sell going to watch Kung Fu Panda instead of Finding Nemo. Even if it's to sell going to the Chinese restaurant instead of the Italian.

Except realise that if you're the only person doing the sales in your business, that if no-one else can do it, then you've not got a repeatable and scalable sales process. Which means you're less able to step back from your business, and sell it if you wanted.

Here's a short video I created when I realised this:

• You're selling the wrong product

I've never taken any formal sales training. I don't recall reading any sales books. Yet I've been told I'm good at it, and that I probably shouldn't read any sales books and screw up what I've already got.

I think my "trick" is that I have empathy and genuinely want to help people. If I can help them with AdWords - great. If not, then maybe I can help them some other way. Or maybe I can't help at all, which is fine too.

Here's a radio interview where I discuss this mindset:

• The biggest reason websites suck

And a thread:

• Clarity of purpose

Here's another video where I screwed up a sales pitch. It's my post-mortem:

• How I screwed up a sales pitch

And here's a chat one freelancer consultant type had with another freelance consultant type:

• AndyTalks with The-J

Other useful sales related threads:

• The biggest reason landing pages suck
• Show don't tell
• The crowd isn't starving
• How to write an About Us page
• How I often sell AdWords
• You don't need a website, you need sales

Also, if you want to learn AdWords, check out this index of posts:

• Andy's AdWords posts

Good luck!

Thank you for the links! I read many of the topics already, but I think I will read them again with a different mindset.

It's good to hear that your are exactly on the way I want to go, just some steps farther.

 

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[Sanj Modha]

Selling is an experience. You need to feel the product, the process and put yourself in the customer's shoes.

Everything I do is built around the customer first. That includes product research, marketing, support etc.

Don't forget you're a customer too. What pisses you off, makes you click an ad or watch a commercial, or forces you to buy something? You already know all the answers.

 

[Rincewind]

You already know all the answers.

Yes, and then the engineer in me starts telling me all the stuff:

• But that's only your point of view. Are you sure you're not alone with that?
• You didn't read 20 books about that. How can you be sure?
• You don't have a degree. How would anyone believe you?
• ...

And then I start believing that I THINK I know the answers, but don't really know them. And then I start reading, researching, ...

I really try to change my mindset

 

[Greg Black]

I think my "trick" is that I have empathy and genuinely want to help people. If I can help them with AdWords - great. If not, then maybe I can help them some other way. Or maybe I can't help at all, which is fine too.

I agree, too many people think sales is all about tricks and manipulating people.

I remember seeing a study where they put a number of complete newbies into sales roles and they found the most successful were nurses, because they were empathetic and really cared for the customer.

 

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[Sanj Modha]

Yes, and then the engineer in me starts telling me all the stuff:

• But that's only your point of view. Are you sure you're not alone with that?
• You didn't read 20 books about that. How can you be sure?
• You don't have a degree. How would anyone believe you?
• ...

And then I start believing that I THINK I know the answers, but don't really know them. And then I start reading, researching, ...

I really try to change my mindset

You're being too hard on yourself. 5 years ago I knew nothing. I could barely run a RHS ad off FB.

Fast forward to 2016 - I'm running several ecommerce stores off FB and Adwords traffic. The biggest tool you have is your brain. Start acquiring more knowledge, network more and test more.

I've been where you are. I doubted myself too but now nothing can stop me. It's time to stop that voice in your head or just listen and don't pay attention.

 

[Andy Black]

You already know all the answers.

Exactly.

You already know enough.

 

[Andy Black]

I agree, too many people think sales is all about tricks and manipulating people.

I remember seeing a study where they put a number of complete newbies into sales roles and they found the most successful were nurses, because they were empathetic and really cared for the customer.

I love it!

Thanks for sharing @Greg Black

 

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[GMSI7D]

the first thing to consider is your attitude

salespersons i see in shops say " hello" when we enter the shop.

but their attitude and behaviours say something else !

their behaviours say " i hate my job, i must pay the bills so i do it anyway, why do you bother me, go away"

i am not kidding here : entrepreneurs want to be rich but hire people who treat customers like sh++

so think about that.