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Is todays education wrong??

Jackflower93

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I know this may have already been discussed but i couldn't find it.. I feel pretty passionate about this tonight...

I've been chatting to a group of people about the current education systems in place around the world. How much quicker, if any, do you think you would be were you are today if you were taught more relevant subjects in school?

What would these subjects be, without being to generalized?

It would certainly be interesting to know your thoughts because the guys I was chatting with tonight think education is exactly were it needs to be.... o_O
 
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GuestUser450

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How much quicker, if any, do you think you would be were you are today if you were taught more relevant subjects in school?

Not at all. The failure of school isn't that it teaches the wrong things but that it doesn't teach kids how to learn on their own.

My daughter is "homeschooled". We're not religious, she has no behavioral problems and we live in a nice area with highly rated schools.

We chose to do it because it's infinitely better. I regret not doing it sooner.
 

devine

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It's not about subject and relevancy, it's about educational process and pedagogic approach.
Tbh, the only serious education is medicine in Russia. If you live in US/UK/AU - education is dead here.

If you are really interested we can emphasize on this subject, I'm an author of pedagogic reform project for elementary/primary school.
 
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JokerCrazyBeatz

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I didn't learn anything from school but the basics , I never liked school tho ever , I couldn't even tell u 10% of what I "learned"'in school
 

Jackflower93

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TeveTorbes said:
My daughter is "homeschooled". We're not religious, she has no behavioral problems and we live in a nice area with highly rated schools.

I honestly believe this is very good option to consider when it comes to bringing up children... However it is a shame that you have such little faith in a system that should be there to support you.

I also feel we need a massively different approach possibly a lot more practical, and I don't mean practical in a physical sense.

Hmmm it all seems to be heading backwards...
 
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GuestUser450

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Hmmm it all seems to be heading backwards...

Quite the opposite. The options are limitless. We can cherry-pick curricula from what we deem best whether it's Stanford, MIT or even YouTube. No politics, agendas, forced friendships, lazy educators, etc.
 
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AgainstAllOdds

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Here's an interesting fact: The average high school student is smarter than the average high school teacher. McKinsey did a study to track the percentile range that teachers scored when they were in high school, and the average teacher was 46th percentile. Couple that with age-related intellectual degradation, and you have the intelligence of the average high school teacher being lower than the average high school student.

So you have a school system with inept "mentors", and they're teaching subjects like "poetry". The result you get is a F*cked system.

Think about that. Our school system considers poetry taught by below average individuals more important than financial literacy.

I'll end my rant here, but will say -- I'm all for sites like http://khanacademy.org and charter schools. The best teacher should be able to teach. The worst teachers should be purged.
 

luniac

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VDon

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My girlfriend is a kindergarten teacher and it is more than obvious, that education already failed BEFORE kids are entering the school system.

What can be observed is, that every year more and more underdeveloped kids enter kindergarten. Some kids are lost causes at the age of 4, just because the parents are idiots or the kids come from broken homes. Nobody can fix that and this will be a huge problem in like 10-20 years, when those people enter the labour market and nobody can use them.
 

HoneyBadger

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The general notion of going to school/college is to get a job. Notice I said "get" and not "make a job" or "make jobs". Therefore the education system is operating under those beliefs and is set up currently to generate "employees". Certainly if you view that system from an entrepreneurially minded perspective you are going to say it is broken. However it is operating how society has instructed it to mixed with general government inefficiencies.
 

devine

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Unlike popular belief, the problem is never with parents.
It doesn't matter who raises a kid and how they do it, because the moment he/she steps into kindergarten/school they are in a new realm with its own rules, conditions and authorities.

The system is good at what it does. It's good at raising people who are good at sitting in front of a desk and kicking their shit back and forth until the clock strikes. In schools there is no "math, biology, english, etc', each class teaches the same thing that has nothing to do with class title itself. This is exactly what our governments need.

Whole educational system can be fixed in no time, worldwide. The problem is - nobody in this system wants to fix it, and those who want and have right skill sets are way outside of educational system.
 
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Tapp001

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The modern schooling system is such as mess of competing influences and origins that its hard to point out any one thing wrong with it, suffice to say that it's meant to be a 'one size fits all' system, and many, many students won't fit. I do think most teachers do the best job that they can, though the small percent of awful ones have a disproportionate impact.

Even if a child does well at school, the parent should keep a close eye on them, and probably provide some supplementary education. I went to school, and did OK in classes, but I also learned history and electronics from my Dad and science and literature from Mom (Very much aware at hoe blessed I was in that respect).
 

ZCP

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So what is everyone doing about it?!

We go out multiple times a year to introduce engineering and technology careers to middle school kids. We start with money and budgets, then end with cool things you can do to earn a living.

Also spend a lot of time coaching sports and in scouts working on real world experience for the kids.

What can you do to help?
 

Ninjakid

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How much quicker, if any, do you think you would be were you are today if you were taught more relevant subjects in school?
That's an extremely general question. What is considered relevant? Which education systems are you referring to?

As for me, everything I learned best by self teaching. Once I figured out how quickly and effectively I could self teach myself, learning in school became pretty useless.
 
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VDon

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Unlike popular belief, the problem is never with parents.

The problem is most of the time with the parents. If a kid is five years old and still needs diapers, who do you blame?


Sent from my Swagphone with Tapatalk
 
D

Deleted21961

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Ok, here is a question: Does it really matter at all?

Maybe it is like this: people who are capable of thinking on their own will do it despite what they do in school - sooner or later.
People who are not capable of that won't benefit of dropping out anyway.

Can school really teach someone to think?

I believe that it's like Paul Graham says: schools are now mostly the places where kids are kept busy while their parents work.
On one hand, smarter kids waste their time there, on the other hand school prevents less smart ones from running wild all day and getting hurt. Maybe that's a good trade off.
 

socaldude

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Horrible.

It does nothing to teach kids how to think and create new things with their minds.

Just memorization.

It only instills wrong beliefs into their minds about themselves, learning and "reality" that their teachers vehemently believe as well.

If you get straight A's or a 4.0 GPA you are only accelerating in a system and an environment that was created by people who are just as clueless as everyone else. Its a fantasy world quite literally. This is a belief that is very difficult to challenge because so many people believe it and will defend it.

If a child was "always" a "C" student in math then when he gets older he will feel extreme anxiety and low self-esteem if he even dares to open up a math subject book when he gets older and out of school. Because of course he "sucks" at math according to his shitty school system.

We all have a self-image that was created by this false environment called "school" and often times this is exactly what holds us back when we try to learn something all on our own when we grow up. All thanks to a false and ineffective system that everyone defends and praises.

http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-creates-a-grade-school-2015-5
 
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GuestUser450

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Does it really matter at all?

Yep. In fact, how we educate our kids is the most important thing I can think of. What we have now is expensive, dysfunctional, occasionally abusive and over time makes us vulnerable as a country. (Insert modern example of young people being shepherded into a movement by facile ideologies here)

None of us are predestined, or bound to a certain fate. Education starts at home, no doubt- parents carry the most weight. But our collective decision to overspend on mediocre matters.
 
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amp0193

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I've spent about two years and about $200K of my own cash (with a partner) building a product -- and a business -- aimed at teaching kids computer engineering (programming and electronics).

I also spend a lot of time helping schools (middle, high and college) design courses to teach kids the basics of engineering and how consumer devices are designed.

Improving education has always been an interest of mine, as I firmly believe that the success of an economy is directly correlated to the innovation created in that economy. My country has been falling behind in both education and innovation in recent years...a small number of people do the majority of the innovation in the US. I'd love to help change that...

Love it, I think you've touched on a big need here with your business. Do you have anything sold yet and implemented in schools?

I am an ex middle school teacher, and couldn't believe they weren't teaching computer engineering. All of the elective courses were baloney, except for music, which I taught. I think kids would be very interested and capable in doing this. To code is to create, and knowing that skill will open doors for anyone.
 

pickeringmt

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I've thought about this as well, and I think this country would be about a million times better off if our public schools taught kids nothing more than how to take good care of themselves physically, mentally, socially, and economically. Imagine if teachers spent about 7 hours a day explaining how to take care of yourself and your homework was to satisfy that material. You would pursue your actual passions on your own, like literature, art, science, entrepreneurship, etc; and you would learn how to build a life that works around what you actually want it to be.
 

Runum

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By all the complaints I would deduce that there is a need here somewhere that needs to be fixed. I applaud @JScott and others that I know are trying to make a difference and fix it.

It's interesting to read the complaints, they all see to be biased due to one's school performance, perceived deficiency, social challenges, emotional needs, etc.

My position on education is that a sperm and an egg got together somehow and produced a living human being. It is the parents' responsibility to raise and educate that offspring. The parents have a lot of choice in this matter, they can home-school, they can hire someone to partner with them, that could be public, private, charter schools, or a private tutor. However, in our land of freedoms parents also can neglect their child's needs and dump their raising on the state.

If you have never spent time as an adult in a public school, you should. If you have never cared for pre-K kids from all types of backgrounds you should give it a try.

We are not all born with the same opportunities and knowledge. Not all parents are engaged or mature enough to be parents. Not all teachers should be teachers. Not all students accept the help that is provided.

Like it or not, the local school system is a direct reflection of the community it serves. If the community is rough, aggressive, and non supportive the students bring the attitude with them and the school has to respond. It is not productive for anyone. If the community is peaceful and wanting to improve, the students bring that attitude with them and the school responds.

Schools do have community improvement initiatives in place. However, apathy and aggression seem to be the predominant feeling in many communities that I see right now.

My suggestion is to get off the internet and get engaged with your community. Reflect on how the children are being taught. Reflect on how students, parents, and teachers act. Are there fights in the streets and every pee wee football game? Are parents outside the school building physically fighting over a parking space? Are parents driving through the paved playground oblivious to the students playing ball on the playground? Or, are people making an effort to get along and solve problems?

Federal education will not improve. It's too big. Local education can improve but it takes school and community leaders working together for that to happen.

Volunteer to be a dad or mom on campus. Put your time where your bitching is. Jump in and try to find solutions. Bitching on an internet forum doesn't solve anything.

Good luck to all.
 
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mayana

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Some kids are lost causes at the age of 4

I'm sorry, but I take huge issue with this statement. I would say that only a minute percentage of four year olds are "lost causes". Even a four year old with a terrible home life can grow up to be a brilliantly productive member of society. I think that it is this statement that is what is wrong with the way that we think about children in this country.

We don't put a priority on REAL education in our country. People would rather the school systems spend money on developing good sports programs, instead of hiring better teachers/new books/other educational things. Parents are stuck in front of the TV all night and weekend. Kids aren't taught by anyone that learning is more important than video games.

We have a gigantic problem with priorities and how we assign value as a culture.
 
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Guest34764

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Speaking of experience as I'm in high school I can say that It's rather bad.

You get "electives", their free choices that you get to pick yourself! Whoo that's awesome you get all these choices!

"Band"

"Art"

"Chorus"

There are different sub-sets within these choices but honestly their pretty much the same thing.

There was once choice though that I was interested in "Sports marketing and recreation entertainment"

I was so happy that there was something business related so I signed up for it at the beginning of the year.

That was horrible too.I felt like I was in a class for 2nd graders.Nothing was about marketing, we watched The Apprentice, spent months taking the Industry Certification Test, and we spent a month or so playing a financial simulator game that sucked.The teacher was a person with an unsuccessful Automotive business that no one has ever heard of.He would make these grandiose speeches, but they always fell short and It's obvious he knew little about what he was talking about. The only good thing was that I could use the time in the class to research on the forums as I had access to the computers.I plan on taking the second course of this elective only so I can get free time to work on an eCommerce channel.

Then the "education" is rather good though.We have a lot of AP courses and Dual enrollment (Yay college!) things going on.I just take honor classes though, I don't want to make Highschool hard.It's all very constricting with all the required courses you have to take though.

I will say that they push so damn hard to get you into college.They do tests to prepare you, they hand out college application forms, they sport their merchandise.They do a lot to make sure you're a successful pen-pusher.I have no interest in college so I just give them fake emails for the forms lol.

That's pretty much it.I don't like school and think that there is a need for improvements.I'm sure there's more I could talk about but I'm pretty tired writing this.

TL;DR Constricting,lack of creativity amongst electives for people with other wants, and pushing you into college.

Edit:I should say that I'd love if we could have an actual finance/business course.It'd be awesome if I was able to be taught business laws and stuff like that for a Highschool course.
 

devine

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We don't put a priority on REAL education in our country. People would rather the school systems spend money on developing good sports programs, instead of hiring better teachers/new books/other educational things.
We have a gigantic problem with priorities and how we assign value as a culture.
So true.
 
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Runum

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Re: the 4 year old child lost cause.

I am sure the statement was made in the context of a teacher trying to change a child's life in an 8 hour day while trying to work with other children at the same time. I am also sure that those lower performing students would be the outliers as suggested.

However, the outliers do count and they do matter.

We have had children come to preK that cannot speak, they may urinate or defecate wherever or whenever they want. Their impulse control is non existent as are their social skills. They only eat with their hands and usually sitting on the floor. They may have been exposed to drugs, shootings, murder, abuse, and porn for all of their years. There may be 2-3 of these students in a class of 10-15.

We also have the students that excel in everything. They are well adjusted and have great manners. They adapt to new situations well. There may be 1-2 of these in the same class room.

Edit: I should have also included students with other needs such as autism, down syndrome, ESL, ODD, SPED, etc will also be included in a typical classroom.

The rest of the students are somewhere in between.

Given limited resources, staff, money, and time, who do you think gets the most attention? The lower performing students of course!

I also do not think they are a lost cause, but, it will take far more resources than one teacher, 8 hours a day, 180 days a year, can deliver. That one preK teacher will try but will probably not be successful in changing that child's life. That child needs more time, more training, and more resources from others. Keep in mind that the lower performing student returns to their home environment each evening and all summer 24/7 to fall back into the old habits.

Those outliers consume a LOT of resources.
 
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devine

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If anyone is interested in checking it out or providing feedback (again, we still have some improvements coming on the website), here it is:
http://www.ReadySetSTEM.com
1. Put CTA in the end of the page or rename it to "Take a tour". Make offers only after people become interested.
2. Testimonials have ~2% value at best in your case. Put them after everything else.
3. Improve clarity of message: Create an interesting tour on your home page, make people intrigued with non-generic details and benefits of your kit.
Right now majority of people who might be interested in your kit won't get enough information about it from your website. This is not a kind of product people will buy without analysis.
 

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