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Web 3.0 (Ethereum) is happening, and most people have no idea what it even is.

townhaus

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This post has seriously made me consider investing some money in ETH.

I'm delving in programming too -- might try my hand at programming some applications for it, get in there nice and early before it becomes some huge phenomenon (like BTC).
Dude, it is already 30% the market cap of BTC (which i think is unsustainable - ETH wont overtake BTC i don't think - it is relatively huge already & likely in a bubble now.)

ETH is the 3rd largest crypto ($8bn market cap, vs BTC's $28bn)
CoinCap.io

Unless you think Etherium is going to become much bigger than BTC, there's not much upside unless BTC also grows a lot too (bringing ETH up with it).
 

mguerra

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Wow, that was an interesting thread! After reading the arguments of both sides and done my own thinking I'm considering investing some money in ETH. Just some questions if someone could answer me:

1- What are the sites that we can win free ETH coins? And for the sake of clarity, 1 ETH coin = 90 USD in real value? If I win 1 free ETH coin, can I trade/sell it for 90 dollars?

2- As I saw yesterday, ETH stocks are up to 80 USD, and its only in embrionary stage. Do you guys think the prices will rise to something like $130+ or are we face a downside soon?

3- Another friend mentioned something about Ripple having the same tendencie for growth and being more affordable than ETH stocks. What you guys think about it?

Here's the link: Ripple Price Rises 70% in 24 Hours

Waiting to see the explosion happens. I really think we're facing the next revolution.
 
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townhaus

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Wow, that was an interesting thread! After reading the arguments of both sides and done my own thinking I'm considering investing some money in ETH. Just some questions if someone could answer me:

1- What are the sites that we can win free ETH coins? And for the sake of clarity, 1 ETH coin = 90 USD in real value? If I win 1 free ETH coin, can I trade/sell it for 90 dollars?

2- As I saw yesterday, ETH stocks are up to 80 USD, and its only in embrionary stage. Do you guys think the prices will rise to something like $130+ or are we face a downside soon?

3- Another friend mentioned something about Ripple having the same tendencie for growth and being more affordable than ETH stocks. What you guys think about it?

Here's the link: Ripple Price Rises 70% in 24 Hours

Waiting to see the explosion happens. I really think we're facing the next revolution.

1) Faucet sites can give free coins, but not a whole one. You might get 0.0001 ETH, like 0.08cents or something! Better just to buy some.

2) Yes - ETH might easily go to $130 (or rally to $300 why not). It can just as easily fall back to $30 or below in a few months.

3) Ripple was all but forgotten a few months back. Now it's number 2 largest crypto. You could have 10x your money on it, or on many of the other crypto coins.

If you are thinking of buying Ripple, or ETH right now...you are probably late to the party.

Check out some of the smaller altcoins by market cap. One of them may be the number 2 or 3 largest in a few months, and ETH/RIpple could have collapsed.

These things go in cycles.

I think everyone is chasing the quick buck & altcoins are in a bubble. BTC offers the best long term potential, but altcoins may offer >1000x moves (& possibly -80% moves too!)

If you are a trader - forget about stocks, fx etc. Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are the hottest market & easier to predict. Simple trading systems like MAs are making 200% annual returns etc.

If you havnt got a clue about trading, i'd forget it...or just take a blind faith (gamble) & buy & hold whichever sounds most appealing to you.

P.S im a bitcoin early adopter, i bought some in single digits & have been following these markets closely for years.
 

townhaus

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Bitcoin is a commodity - it could survive on its own (without a development team, foundation etc) & is robust. It will not die.

Etherium is a corporation - great PR / marketing team pushing behind it. But i think it's all hype & buzzwords "smart contracts can do EVERYTHING. its going to change the world".

I think ETH was set up to distract the public from BTC for a while, gain market share & then buy up all the BTC (using ETH, which will collapse in the process).

Too bad the market doesn't give a toss about my opinion of Etherium being a scam / bubble. Its hitting all time highs!

Thats the only signal you need. It would have got you in to bitcoin at $5..10...100 etc. Same as with anything that goes from 1 to 1000 (it will eventually hit 10, 100 and many new highs along the way - you can take the early signal, or continue to ignore them if you want but a single point will eventually be the peak.).

Trading isn't rocket science - it's taking risk - & old school trading rules hold true in any market.

Youd be making money if you buy the highs, cut your losses & stay disciplined. Don't worry about learning how to program smart contracts or understand the fundamentals or follow the news.

Also you can use Etherium to raise millions in BTC/ETH to crowdfund your crazy business idea - just launch a site with a whitepaper.

Infact more bitcoin & blockchain related startups are raising money this way, than by using VCs right now.

This is probably risky from a regulatory point of view (though noone seems to be getting into trouble - its a grey area because its so new, innovative & the regulators cant understand the buzzwords and will be slow to adapt).

2017.05.12-ICOs-vs-VCs-v4.png
 
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Mineralogic

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Dude, it is already 30% the market cap of BTC (which i think is unsustainable - ETH wont overtake BTC i don't think - it is relatively huge already & likely in a bubble now.)

ETH is the 3rd largest crypto ($8bn market cap, vs BTC's $28bn)
CoinCap.io

Unless you think Etherium is going to become much bigger than BTC, there's not much upside unless BTC also grows a lot too (bringing ETH up with it).


ETH/Ethereum has dramatically more upside than Bitcoin. Sorry to break your bitcon bubble. Ethereum platform can truly harness what the blockchain is about as a platform

Meanwhile bitcon has been pumped up here beyond belief, has shady stakeholders, and weak development going on. Its been sold as Gold 2.0

only problem is now CME and others are looking to create REAL Cryptocoins, likely on the ethereum blockchain, that truly have gold and silver backed behind them for a core tangible value. In other words bitcon will lose a huge speculative premium in the future and likely move to the dustbin of history
 
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Mineralogic

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Bitcoin is a commodity - it could survive on its own (without a development team, foundation etc) & is robust. It will not die.

Etherium is a corporation - great PR / marketing team pushing behind it. But i think it's all hype & buzzwords "smart contracts can do EVERYTHING. its going to change the world".

I think ETH was set up to distract the public from BTC for a while, gain market share & then buy up all the BTC (using ETH, which will collapse in the process).

Too bad the market doesn't give a toss about my opinion of Etherium being a scam / bubble. Its hitting all time highs!

Thats the only signal you need. It would have got you in to bitcoin at $5..10...100 etc. Same as with anything that goes from 1 to 1000 (it will eventually hit 10, 100 and many new highs along the way - you can take the early signal, or continue to ignore them if you want but a single point will eventually be the peak.).

Trading isn't rocket science - it's taking risk - & old school trading rules hold true in any market.

Youd be making money if you buy the highs, cut your losses & stay disciplined. Don't worry about learning how to program smart contracts or understand the fundamentals or follow the news.

Also you can use Etherium to raise millions in BTC/ETH to crowdfund your crazy business idea - just launch a site with a whitepaper.

Infact more bitcoin & blockchain related startups are raising money this way, than by using VCs right now.

This is probably risky from a regulatory point of view (though noone seems to be getting into trouble - its a grey area because its so new, innovative & the regulators cant understand the buzzwords and will be slow to adapt).

View attachment 14847

you sound crazy. If anything bitcoin is the shady dark money test coin that was set up , PUMPED Up to 30 billion market cap ( with no one using it), and is likely to be dethroned and crashed ( taking out crazy anarchists, chinese communists, and others with it) for the newer and better coin/platform
 

townhaus

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Best of luck with your speculation.

If bitcoin becomes dethroned then SOMEOTHERCOIN/BTC will break new high - i will be long that thing way before it's market cap will == BTC (i have alerts).

Don't get married to a stock (nor Bitcoin, Etherium). It will go down eventually.

As for now...your missing out if you don't already own it. The biggest rewards go to the early adopters (traders) who take the most risk - and provide value by helping the network gain critical mass - you should get in BIG & EARLY...the risk will only increase & the rewards diminish as it get closer to reaching it upside potential over time.

It was designed that way.
 
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LifeTransformer

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What a thread!

Will have a few satoshis of my own to add soon...
 

Ninjakid

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I should mention that every financial scam is predicated on a complicated formula that the average person doesn't understand ... "We issue short term promissory notes at 14% interest for interoceanic transportation inventories for multinational conglomerates who need mezzanine float for their operations."

OK. In other words, it's a scam.

I'm not saying this is a scam, but the confusing methodology is what sets the stage for adapt players to make a lot of cash, at someone elses expense.

I can tell you right now that I won't be making any money in this -- but I won't be losing money either. And I'm fine with that.
These were exactly my thoughts.

I don't get how something so few people can understand how to use it would provide value to so many people requiring them to invest immediately.

I'm always skeptical of these types of pitches.
 

Joe Cassandra

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I remember telling people about the Internet back in the early 1990s (before the Netscape browsers, any standards or any killer apps) and telling people how it would revolutionize commerce -- most of them responded in a fashion similar to what you wrote above...

Turns out that those who were the real entrepreneurs jumped at the opportunity to turn something that nobody understood into an indispensable technology. They took something complicated and made it simple to understand and use. And they were handsomely rewarded.

For those who would rather sit back and wait for others to figure out how to leverage it, that's certainly their prerogative. But some people want to be on the forefront of technology as opposed to waiting for others to "make it simple to use."

I'm not asking for or suggesting an investment...just pointing out a potential opportunity. Take it or leave it. I really don't care.




I can't speak for others, but nothing I wrote was intended as a "pitch"... All I was doing was trying to inform my fellow entrepreneurs about a technology that I think will be big in the future (so that those who might be interested can do their own investigation). Again, I don't really care if anyone on this forum chooses to investigate or pursue this technology.

Sorry if you interpreted the information I provided as a "pitch"...

I don't fully understand any of this blockchain stuff yet.

I'm guessing for what you do in real estate...since our financial records are public and verified, you could close on a house in 1 day and not 30 I would guess, right?

We closed on our house in March and it was a nightmare. "Send this doc, send this bank statement" then they ask for repeats of stuff because they missed a PDF I sent...

Is that what the blockchain contracts could do?
 
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Eskil

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Even though I'm still grasping to try and understand some of this technology, I think there are obvious and huge opportunities here if this really takes off. Only time will tell of course.

There's lots of technology repacked and re-released like this, under a different name but essentially the same concepts.

Yes, I've seen many examples of this in my lifetime too, and I think if one is to go back in history - there have always been, and will always be waves of 'reneissance' business opportunities that come and go in the public eye. Either due to technological advances, or to entrepreneurs who think outside the box and can 'repackage and re-release' already existing things in new ways (or both).

Take virtual reality as an example of a technological reboot of old. A lot of younger people today think it's some very new and modern invention that came with the launch of Oculus and HTC Vive. But that stuff was around in the early 90's. I remember VR headsets and games that you could buy. But it was ahead of its time of course with technical limitations so it went into hibernation and no one talked about it for some 20+ years until someone realized the concept was again ripe and mature for the world.

And look at Ancestry.com. Software for creating and researching family tree history have been around since the late 80's. I used to use some of them. They were mostly shit, lol, though they served their purpose at least for a narrow enthusiast market who were willing to use these not so user friendly tools and early websites. Ancestry.com saw the opportunity in an old concept that had been poorly executed and marketed, turning it into a easy to use and fun tool that even my grandpa could use if he wanted to. For many, this was and is a new and exciting thing - but it's really just something old that is cleverly repackaged and (wisely) not just marketed to enthusiasts.

Anyway, that was a distraction and I'm not sure this applies particularly to Ethereum vs. Bitcoin since like I said, I don't fully understand it yet. One thing is for sure - if it DOES become something, then those who jump on it early will be glad they did.
 

Mineralogic

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I could imagine using blockchain/smart-contracts for many different parts of a real estate transaction, but the most obvious would be to store and transfer deeds. Not only would the transaction be stored in an immutable decentralized fashion, but you wouldn't have to worry about forgery, accidental destruction of documents, recording errors, etc. And the information would be readily available from anywhere, without the need for humans to scan paper and upload it to servers.

Btw, just because this use-case is obvious and simple doesn't mean it's easily implemented. It would require a major industry shift that won't be accomplished anytime soon, simply because those in the industry are very set in their ways, and it would put a lot of people in the industry out of business...

you will be able to replace companies with this platform in some areas and have a mechanism to manage.
Decentralize orgs that don't need a boss/leader, etc
Apparently they have these things called ORACLES to manage/link up data/contract fufillment. That's a whole BUSINESS operation right there, to be the oracle. I spy opportunity


again, has the power to change the world or sink us deeper into technocratic dystopian future
 

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Saw this thread on the /r/ethereum subreddit and thought it would be helpful for some people that still aren't sure of Ethereum and it's use-cases.

It is : "Two sentence Ethereum pitch"
Two sentence Ethereum pitch. • r/ethereum

Some of the replies:
"If you want to operate some mechanism that involves binding agreements and reliable bookkeeping -- like a crowdfunding campaign, a remote employment contract, or even a digital currency system -- then you currently need to set up a highly secure central server, and every participant needs to trust you with the admin password.
With Ethereum, you can upload the exact rules of your "game" to an enormous peer-to-peer network where each and every node verifies the integrity of every action, where forgery is made so difficult that even a well-funded state actor probably can't do it, and where all history is backed up across the internet."

"Ethereum is a platform in which you can write programs that are uncensorable and permanent, which can interact with each other in order to perform a wide variety of actions and contracts, including money transactions. This makes possible direct and transparent interactions between two parties that previously required a third party to be effective."

and...

"Ethereum is a distributed virtual machine allowing everyone capable of paying the fee to have access to trusted and verifiable open source computing. It also spews magical unicorns because I don't need the second sentence."

 
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Joe Cassandra

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I'm in the middle of doing a major research piece on the blockchain in general for a client, so this thread's been interesting.

What's coming is somewhat of a 'leveling' event. Like a war might do. WWII reset the American economy after the Depression. Society, itself, will reset to a point. Because we're moving from a highly centralized world back to a decentralized world.

I say 'back' because in the first civilizations, you lived in a village with 100 people. You each had your duty, you knew each other, trusted each other and everyone agreed on the rules (think of the TV show LOST --- no centralized powers). Slowly, as towns grew to thousands of people, individuals were put in power and took control and abused power.

Centralized society trotted along without interference for thousands of years. Up to a point...

The printing press came into play in the 15th century. Suddenly, we could share ideas across towns/villages with newspapers and letters. That's when you see major 'leveling' events like the Reformation, then, of course, American's Independence.

As America grew, it became centralized again as we grew away from small colonies...But not just government centralized, however. Companies did too. Large banks, insurance companies, middlemen siphon billions into their coffers based on our transactions. Then, 2008 hit, but nothing reset. We haven't had a major event to 'reset the system.' Debt, spending, etc. is just as bad as before the recession. So Bitcoin (a la Blockchain) began.

We could, in a way, go back to a massive decentralized world where we trade and transact, but we don't have to trust anyone, just the blockchain.

How that world looks...I'm not sure. Hard to wrap my head around it for sure.
 

Coalission

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For those who would rather sit back and wait for others to figure out how to leverage it, that's certainly their prerogative. But some people want to be on the forefront of technology as opposed to waiting for others to "make it simple to use."

This video of Bill Gates trying to explain what the internet is and can do to David Letterman is perfect.

Even Gates didn't know the full scope and potential of the internet at the time, but the way Letterman dismisses it is eerily similar to some people in this thread.

 

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I'll try to keep this brief and that means I'll probably miss something out, but here's my current view on things:

The thread title only mentioning Ethereum is somewhat short sighted, there are plenty of other blockchain technologies coming out. Stratis, that is said to be business focused, being just one of them (it's also C# based for you programmers). There are also others built on top of Ethereum such as Singular DTV, a group working on making a decentralised version of YouTube/Vimeo/NetFlix, you can see that project listed at one of the links posted above. There is also a blockchain based on Java that is still relatively fresh too. That's just a few off the top of my head.

One of the problems that seems to have risen in this thread is the distinction between the blockchain technology and the Coins themselves, such as BitCoin and Ethereum to name only 2 of the 500+ coins and counting. If you want to trade coins that's a whole other issue I'm not going to cover.

If you want to read more about what the hell a blockchain is (other than what has already been posted in the thread) and its potential then the best book is probably "The Blockchain Revolution".

What I've not seen anyone mention too much in this thread is the possible opportunities. I'll try to run down a few I've spotted, some of them are coin focused and others are blockchain based:

  • Exchanges - Getting hold of coins is somewhat difficult. Unless you're accepting coins as payment (There are services that allow you to do this), being able to easily switch money to and from coins is quite a task. There is certainly opportunity there.
  • Speaking of getting paid in crypto currency; incorporating blockchains into your business is another option. You've read about smart contracts in this thread, one area where they could be employed really nicely (IMO) is in the freelancing sector. Ever wanted to create a Fiverr/UpWork or something similar without having to deal with potential scammers? How about a platform like that, but built on Ethereum's smart contracts? Could work nicely I believe.
  • One of the problems I mentioned above is the problem of switching money to/from currencies. ATMs have been made where you can buy Bitcoin for example, but there's the opportunity for using this technology to create your own ATMs for other currencies. A team called mona.co is bringing out a Visa card that allows you to spend your Crypto in the real world. Maybe there will also be other problems in this space to solve?
  • Hard wallets - there are currently only 2 on the market, maybe you could create one that's better than both? (I haven't used one yet, I'm sure there are issues).
  • I'll add some more of these in the thread when I come up with them...
 

Mineralogic

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I'm in the middle of doing a major research piece on the blockchain in general for a client, so this thread's been interesting.

What's coming is somewhat of a 'leveling' event. Like a war might do. WWII reset the American economy after the Depression. Society, itself, will reset to a point. Because we're moving from a highly centralized world back to a decentralized world.

I say 'back' because in the first civilizations, you lived in a village with 100 people. You each had your duty, you knew each other, trusted each other and everyone agreed on the rules (think of the TV show LOST --- no centralized powers). Slowly, as towns grew to thousands of people, individuals were put in power and took control and abused power.

Centralized society trotted along without interference for thousands of years. Up to a point...

The printing press came into play in the 15th century. Suddenly, we could share ideas across towns/villages with newspapers and letters. That's when you see major 'leveling' events like the Reformation, then, of course, American's Independence.

As America grew, it became centralized again as we grew away from small colonies...But not just government centralized, however. Companies did too. Large banks, insurance companies, middlemen siphon billions into their coffers based on our transactions. Then, 2008 hit, but nothing reset. We haven't had a major event to 'reset the system.' Debt, spending, etc. is just as bad as before the recession. So Bitcoin (a la Blockchain) began.

We could, in a way, go back to a massive decentralized world where we trade and transact, but we don't have to trust anyone, just the blockchain.

How that world looks...I'm not sure. Hard to wrap my head around it for sure.

definitely need a reset of system for a while now and new victors/new money, not the same people/families recycled back to the top again and again
 

Mineralogic

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I'll try to keep this brief and that means I'll probably miss something out, but here's my current view on things:

The thread title only mentioning Ethereum is somewhat short sighted, there are plenty of other blockchain technologies coming out. Stratis, that is said to be business focused, being just one of them (it's also C# based for you programmers). There are also others built on top of Ethereum such as Singular DTV, a group working on making a decentralised version of YouTube/Vimeo/NetFlix, you can see that project listed at one of the links posted above. There is also a blockchain based on Java that is still relatively fresh too. That's just a few off the top of my head.

One of the problems that seems to have risen in this thread is the distinction between the blockchain technology and the Coins themselves, such as BitCoin and Ethereum to name only 2 of the 500+ coins and counting. If you want to trade coins that's a whole other issue I'm not going to cover.

If you want to read more about what the hell a blockchain is (other than what has already been posted in the thread) and its potential then the best book is probably "The Blockchain Revolution".

What I've not seen anyone mention too much in this thread is the possible opportunities. I'll try to run down a few I've spotted, some of them are coin focused and others are blockchain based:

  • Exchanges - Getting hold of coins is somewhat difficult. Unless you're accepting coins as payment (There are services that allow you to do this), being able to easily switch money to and from coins is quite a task. There is certainly opportunity there.
  • Speaking of getting paid in crypto currency; incorporating blockchains into your business is another option. You've read about smart contracts in this thread, one area where they could be employed really nicely (IMO) is in the freelancing sector. Ever wanted to create a Fiverr/UpWork or something similar without having to deal with potential scammers? How about a platform like that, but built on Ethereum's smart contracts? Could work nicely I believe.
  • One of the problems I mentioned above is the problem of switching money to/from currencies. ATMs have been made where you can buy Bitcoin for example, but there's the opportunity for using this technology to create your own ATMs for other currencies. A team called mona.co is bringing out a Visa card that allows you to spend your Crypto in the real world. Maybe there will also be other problems in this space to solve?
  • Hard wallets - there are currently only 2 on the market, maybe you could create one that's better than both? (I haven't used one yet, I'm sure there are issues).
  • I'll add some more of these in the thread when I come up with them...

you actually pointed out one of the big risks to any of these coins, other coins can be infinitely created out of thin air, ICO's out of thin air with no working business model, etc. However which ones are gaining traction? Its obvious now Bitcoin does not maximize the BLOCKCHAIN potential at all

People are moving onto others or relooking at others again. I see companies switching to Litecoin now, frustrated with Bitcoin and their issues.

Ethereum is the clear leader on smart contracts and many other avenues right now
 
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What's up with bitcoin? Why is it increasing in value? I think today it crossed 1800$. Bitcoin looks like some expensive penny stock, huge pump and dump scheme,imho.
 

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Hard wallets - there are currently only 2 on the market, maybe you could create one that's better than both? (I haven't used one yet, I'm sure there are issues).

I use the Ledger Nano S.
 

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4. EVM is useless and stupid.

There isn't an issue that the protocol fixes.

Ether offers nothing but disadvantages to the consumer.

There's also no advantages that I can think of.

0UPgIIg.gif


Toyota, Merck Join Ethereum Group to Build Blockchain Network

Toyota, for example, is experimenting with ethereum to help it develop self-driving cars and other uses.

Ethereum Enterprise Alliance Adds 86 New Members Including DTCC, State Street And Infosys
 
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I've seen such a recent jump in the currency cost I'm wondering if it's going to crash down... Last November bitcoins were ~700$/1BTC and they have been relatively stagnant for awhile... now they are at 2280$/1BTC same with ethereum, they seem to really be jumping in prices fast but too fast can't always mean good...
Who knows though.
 

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Really Interesting thread, as I'm already a long time watcher of Crypto currencies and also a quite vary of them.
I know it will be the future, but there are still some flaws to address, like usability and accessibility.

FOREWORD:
The people who say, that they don't understand Crypto's and that's why they dismiss it I really don't get all!

99% of people who use a phone or a computer never understand how all of that works, but can use all of this freaking amazing technology. Sorry, but that's such a naive and fixed look at the world. oO

It's basically like the Gold Rush only in the 21st century. So understand the basics, what this can do and improve in the future and try to profit from it, it's not that hard, especially as we are in an entrepreneur forum...

THE BASICS:
the early adapters of crypto's where mostly developers themselves or people who understood how currencies in our current society work. I only say FED/ECB, printing money out of thin air and putting debt on it.

I specifically use the word currencies, because our paper money isn't worth more then the what it is printed on, only we as a society give it a value, which is completely arbitrary.

Crypto's at the other hand, have an underlying value behind it, called mining, which means you can only create more Crypto currency by using computer power, be it CPU power or GPU power.

You see the difference between Gold (real money) and USD (currency).

A SMALL HISTORY LESSON:
At some point in the past, currencies where also backed by something valuable, which were precious metals, mainly silver and gold, which was called the "Gold Standard".

Unfortunately some people I don't wanna name right now, corrupted the system and switched everything completely around, not only didn't they need to have any precious metal reserves to print new money, but they could print it out of thin air and put debt on it, to create a viscous circle of exponential growth and big crashes, which happens on average every 7-12 years. (2000-20008...)
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If someone wants to know more, look at the FED, which is a normal bank and see who owns it (privately held) and how much annual Dividends they get (6%).

These are some great videos about the basic understanding of our monetary system:

CONCLUSION:
Crypto's are still quite new and there is so much upside potential, especially with the statistics we saw in this thread and as we know now, that Crypto's have a value behind it (mining). The opportunities are basically endless, be it to develop software, hardware, short term trade/ long term invest or even something like a nicely designed paper wallet!

For example me and a friend of mine currently thinking about offering a SaaS that would function like Escrow and you can pay with any bigger coin and the receiver could choose a completely different coin to receive the currency.

The bad side of it is mostly that there is still a lot of potential for market manipulations (pump&dumps) and high volatility, even in the biggest market Bitcoin and the rare chance that someone invents a quantum computer and can basically overtake crypto currencies. :D

FINAL WORDS:
I only put here the basic information, to get an understanding of how much potential crpyto's have. I could go on and on about the topic.

Hope it makes sense, as I wanted to point out that it's not mandatory to have an in-depth understanding about the technology itself, but what it means for our current financial system.
 
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