bodybuilding.com owners discuss forums as a means to loyalty

[LightHouse]

From Internet retailer
InternetRetailer.com - Daily News for Thursday,*July*24, 2008

A tiny technology investment turns into one of the biggest online forums


In 1999, two months after it launched, web-only retailer Bodybuilding.com paid $300 for online forum software from vBulletin to create a forum for its bodybuilders and other fitness buffs to meet, share and learn. It was an extraordinarily small investment for what turned out to be an extraordinarily large success.
Today the e-retailer’s online forum is ranked the 27th largest in any industry by forum monitoring site BigBoards.com. The forum has more than 1.1 million members who create 67,000 threads and 1.3 million posts every month.

“Usually retailers are in a position where they are on one side of a wall and the customers are on the other. We use the forum to blur that distinction and make customers feel they are part of the company,” DeLuca explains. “It’s like how Harley-Davidson sponsors rides and get-togethers and makes its customers feel they are in fact part of the brand. That type of goodwill and those kinds of feelings customers get from a company that brings people together creates extreme loyalty.”

Customer loyalty created by the online forum is one of the biggest competitive advantages Bodybuilding.com has, DeLuca says. “If I had to pin our continued growth as a company on one thing,” he adds, “it would be on building our community online.”

Because it runs one of the largest online forums, Bodybuilding.com spends much more annually on operating a forum than most retailers would, DeLuca says. About $50,000 a year goes into I.T. maintenance, staff time and additional servers. “Our annual spend is on the very high end for a forum because of our size,” DeLuca says.

When it comes to costs, DeLuca contends e-retailing executives who require hard and fast return on what is a minimal investment for an online forum are missing a ripe opportunity. “Executives who just look at hard ROI and manage by spreadsheet and only look at the short-term are blind to the bigger picture,” he says. “When you’re helping people find what they want and understand what they need to know and meet new people, you’re creating goodwill that you just can’t measure. This is a long-term investment that will take some time and a relatively small amount of money, and it’s worth far more than you invest.”

Seems to be a trend esp with Internet Brands buying up major car related forums latley. Building a community around your product and giving users the illusion that tey have a hand in it.... What do you think?

Is this a big revenue model?

Would associating a forum with just any old brand work?

PSS they did mis print a URL is is www.big-boards.com not bigboards.com

[lightning]

Very nice, I especially like this quote:

“Executives who just look at hard ROI and manage by spreadsheet and only look at the short-term are blind to the bigger picture,” he says. “When you’re helping people find what they want and understand what they need to know and meet new people, you’re creating goodwill that you just can’t measure. This is a long-term investment that will take some time and a relatively small amount of money, and it’s worth far more than you invest.”

Kind of goes along what MJ has taught many of us, about learning to "Solve a need", rather then looking to simply "increase profits". Instead of asking "What can we do to make more money", ask "what value can we provide to the customer so they will pay more?".

Good article. Speed+

[MJDeMarco]

Running a forum just for any old brand doesn't work. Forums only work for lifestyle niches or serious engagements into lifestyle.

Bodybuilding is a lifestyle.
Being a Lambo or a Porsche enthusiast is a lifestyle.
Being an interior decorator is a lifestyle.
Having diabetes is a lifestyle impact.
Being a single-mom is a lifestyle impact.
Having cancer is life-changing.
Pursuing financial freedom is a lifestyle.
Seeking a debt-free life is a lifestyle.
Being a Gears of War fan is a lifestyle.
Being an off-road 4x4er is a lifestyle.


These types of entities are ripe for forums.

Just attaching a forum to any brand will not work.

For example, Sears or Target creating a forum would be a waste. They'd have to further narrow their target down to a niche ... "Target Teen" for example.

I just bought a chandelier from Lamps Plus ... would they benefit from a forum? No. Buying a lamp is not lifestyle engaging.

Forums are great for niches that have serious engagements into lifestyle.

[LightHouse]

Running a forum just for any old brand doesn't work. Forums only work for lifestyle niches or serious engagements into lifestyle.

Bodybuilding is a lifestyle.
Being a Lambo or a Porsche enthusiast is a lifestyle.
Being an interior decorator is a lifestyle.
Having diabetes is a lifestyle impact.
Being a single-mom is a lifestyle impact.
Having cancer is life-changing.
Pursuing financial freedom is a lifestyle.
Seeking a debt-free life is a lifestyle.
Being a Gears of War fan is a lifestyle.
Being an off-road 4x4er is a lifestyle.


These types of entities are ripe for forums.

Just attaching a forum to any brand will not work.

For example, Sears or Target creating a forum would be a waste. They'd have to further narrow their target down to a niche ... "Target Teen" for example.

I just bought a chandelier from Lamps Plus ... would they benefit from a forum? No. Buying a lamp is not lifestyle engaging.

Forums are great for niches that have serious engagements into lifestyle.

But Lamps Plus could effectively create a room renovation or home redecorating forum and center it around or advertise their products.

The question would be is it more beneficial on a ROI of time and money to start a forum of their own or simply sponsor a similar forums that are already around on the Internet. I suppose that question would come in research as to whats currently serving that specific niche topic, correct?

[MJDeMarco]

But Lamps Plus could effectively create a room renovation or home redecorating forum and center it around or advertise their products.

The question would be is it more beneficial on a ROI of time and money to start a forum of their own or simply sponsor a similar forums that are already around on the Internet. I suppose that question would come in research as to whats currently serving that specific niche topic, correct?

It would not work. A forum like that would be dead and have hit-and-run members, if any. Hit-and-run members take what they need, leave, and never return.

Extending the Lamps Plus example, the best use of a forum would be to drill down and target interior decorators or folks involved in a decorative lifestyle... that is the only way to drive repeat usage.

Hit-n-run forums are dead and have zero community involvement because they resemble a train station terminal ... people come and go for a purpose .... forums should be like a a local bar where people return to get their fill of homemade brew made by people they know.

Another example, software companies run forums for their software as a conduit to customer support - but rarely are these forums thriving communities unless they serve specific programming niches (again, we move into lifestyle engagements, loyalties, and hobbies). If you program Drupal all day, you are likely to contribute to that forum. Drupal is apart of your life.

[LightHouse]

Another example, software companies run forums for their software as a conduit to customer support - but rarely are these forums thriving communities unless they serve specific programming niches (again, we move into lifestyle engagements, loyalties, and hobbies). If you program Drupal all day, you are likely to contribute to that forum. Drupal is apart of your life.

Most notably on major platforms like OSC, vbulliten, phpbb, etc. Very true. the only worth these have is a good indexing and search function. Even then it is very hard to find or get support. The forums themselves have little advertising value.

[Tyorke]

How much is a site worth that has 1.1 million members total who post 67,000 threads and 1,300,000 posts a month?

I understand there are a lot of variables but curious as to a ballpark range.
$50k? $500k? $5M? $500M?

[MJDeMarco]

How much is a site worth that has 1.1 million members total who post 67,000 threads and 1,300,000 posts a month?

I understand there are a lot of variables but curious as to a ballpark range.
$50k? $500k? $5M? $500M?

Hard to say because it is apart of a larger company ... like selling the engine out of a Ferrari. The entire property is probably worth $100M or more depending how profitable the sales unit is.

[Peter2]

Bodybuilding.com's Ryan DeLuca "100% Dedicated" to Sport of Bodybuilding | Bodybuilding, Deluca, Ryan, Muscletime, Company

[MJDeMarco]

Bodybuilding.com's Ryan DeLuca "100% Dedicated" to Sport of Bodybuilding | Bodybuilding, Deluca, Ryan, Muscletime, Company

Ok, $200M!

[michael]

From Internet retailer
InternetRetailer.com - Daily News for Thursday,*July*24, 2008

Seems to be a trend esp with Internet Brands buying up major car related forums latley. Building a community around your product and giving users the illusion that tey have a hand in it.... What do you think?

Is this a big revenue model?............

Just my opinion but bodybuilding.com can attribute most of its success due to its position as one of the first web based sellers of bodybuilding and fitness supplements, its url which is straightforward and its customer service. I have had complaints with orders from the website and have received a prompt reply from the CEO Ryan Deluca himself. Its products are much cheaper than traditional B&M sellers.

Here is a link where Ryan posts a story of how he went from humble beginning to selling his business for $100m about 8 years later and he mentions some of the hurdles he overcame which threatened to destroy him.

Ask a guy that started Bodybuilding.com anything... - Bodybuilding.com Forums

We should try to get the story reposted into the success story section of this site.

As far as the forum goes it does give the users a sense of community which keeps them returning to the site, as well as the forum articles relating to training and nutrition are regularly posted, all of which are written by the sites senior users at no cost to bb.com!!

[ElectricG]

hahah i actually post regularly on there

[mtnman]

Great thread...bump. some speed.