Google Sidewiki?

[Russ H]

Is this for real?

It's now standard on IE and can easily be added/downloaded to Firefox.

The implications are staggering.

Almost ONE THIRD of your webpage can be taken away, and replaced by a wiki sidebar.

And ANYONE can post to that sidebar-- your competitors, a spammer, a porn site . . .

Please, somebody tell me I'm not reading this right. I want to be wrong!

-Russ H.

Just one reference: Google Sidewiki Controversy | Google Sidewiki Problems | Sidewiki Legalities

[Russ H]

Example of a website w/bad comment.

This is the HOME PAGE of United Airlines.

(I originally had the whole screen shot to show how much was taken up by sidewiki, but had to crop the image to make file size smaller for this window)

-Russ H.

[Russ H]

Could switching everything to https. be a solution?

(I speak from total ignorance-- just trying to be proactive)

-Russ H.

[Jonleehacker]

It's real.

Don't think changing to https will do anything, but changing your page's URL would end the link to the wiki comments (but also ruin any seo and search rankings!).

Also just for clarification, it isn't taking away space from your page, merely adding a sidebar and forcing your page to be smaller in the user's browser. Since it's the user's choice to use the sidewiki, it's no different any anyone else that uses a smaller browser, smaller screen, or smartphone.

Yes, your competition can add comments to your page.

Another good discussion here:

Google Sidewiki: Danger « BuzzMachine

In short, this is an attention grab by Google, essentially they are taking a parasitic relationship to every site on the web.

That is the essence of any browser toolbar.

Of course the market will take care of it. Here is a commercial "defeat" script to block any comments.

SideWiki Comment Blocker :: Get Back The Control Over Your Website Content

This one is free but doesn't seem to have any documentation:

sidewiki-defeat - Project Hosting on Google Code

How do webmasters opt out of sidewiki? - Webmaster Central Help

Another option: block all toolbar users:

Until Google dumps this or provides an opt out, web site owners who'd like to retain control of what appears on their own site can block all Google Toolbar users by adding the following to their htaccess file. The "notoolbar.php" points to a file explaining Google's bad behavior and instructing the visitor to uninstall Google Toolbar in order to proceed. You can create your own file and name it whatever you like, just be sure to change the code below to make it match the file name you've chosen.

RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_USER_AGENT} GTB [NC]
RewriteRule .* notoolbar.php [L]

[Russ H]

Jon,

OK, you get rep speed for this one.

But I'll also buy you a steak dinner in Phx. Many thanks for this.

-Russ H.

[terencechang]

OFF TOPIC:

My biggest fear is not the sidewiki, but Google's new open DNS.

Correct me if I am wrong.

When people get used to Google's DNS. Google can easily shut down the entire Internet and dominate the traffic and monitor where everyone is going. It's like adding a new layer of Google Analytic. In that case, Google can simply ban a web site.

[BurnBright]

I would think the best defense would be to offer a good product at a reasonable value with good customer service. Spam would be a problem but but if your product is better it could be a benefit. Also if your competitors want to openly make a permanent record of themselves disparaging your product then you will also have legal grounds for compensation if the comments are untrue.

Terence: Don't you need to do something malicious to get banned by Open DNS?Phishing for example.

[terencechang]

Terence: Don't you need to do something malicious to get banned by Open DNS?Phishing for example.

I am not sure if it's a right term. I have heard people using IP routing to manipulate the traffic. For example, when the server sees traffic from search engines or real visitors, it switch the IP internally on their own DNS server to display content for different purpose. Or send the traffic to different servers. Of course, Phishing is a red flag.

Anway, My thoughts is that when IPV6 gets very popular, every device will have their own IP address. So whoever holds those DNS records will have the most power to do thing either very much wonderful or very much evil.

That's all I know.

[BurnBright]

You know more about this then me but what you explained does sound shaddy. I would think that if Google gets control of the DNS it would come with alot of power that is could miss use. On the side bar topic look at amazon with it. looks like good pr for them.

[Jonleehacker]

Jon,

OK, you get rep speed for this one.

But I'll also buy you a steak dinner in Phx. Many thanks for this.

-Russ H.

Looking forward to it!

[LightHouse]

I am not sure if it's a right term. I have heard people using IP routing to manipulate the traffic. For example, when the server sees traffic from search engines or real visitors, it switch the IP internally on their own DNS server to display content for different purpose. Or send the traffic to different servers. Of course, Phishing is a red flag.

Anway, My thoughts is that when IPV6 gets very popular, every device will have their own IP address. So whoever holds those DNS records will have the most power to do thing either very much wonderful or very much evil.

That's all I know.

Close TC, It's called cloaking and there are several ways to do it. A few years ago the way to go it was to track SE IP's and store them in a database. you show a content page to the SE and send other visitors to another page. now they are more advanced and its all real time. I do not want to get specific but I cant see many people using gooogles open DNS. esp when your registrar lets you use theirs for free, IE Godaddy.

[Russ H]

I would think the best defense would be to offer a good product at a reasonable value with good customer service. Spam would be a problem but but if your product is better it could be a benefit. Also if your competitors want to openly make a permanent record of themselves disparaging your product then you will also have legal grounds for compensation if the comments are untrue.

Terence: Don't you need to do something malicious to get banned by Open DNS?Phishing for example.

No offense, BurnBright, but a savvy competitor would NEVER put their own name on this.

Instead, they'd have an actual person stay at our inn, and theirs.

Post a review/comparison on our sidewiki, w/a link to our competitor.

Same thing can be done for sites like TripAdvisor, and other review sites. You can totally play by the rules, and shaft your competitor.

We choose not to do this. But not everyone has the same ethics-- esp if their business is on the skids.

Cost: One room night (off season: $120).

ROI: Staggering.

Example: One of our websites generates about US$1,000,000 in sales per year (no exaggeration).

It doesn't take much to sway customer opinion slightly-- all they'd have to do is convince 3-5% of the people we've gotten to our site-- and we'd lose tens of thousands of dollars.

So we'll block this. A good defense is the best offense, in this case.

I'll prolly link our blog to the sidewiki, and put other things on it as well-- for those that figure out a way around the block.

-Russ H.

[terencechang]

Close TC, It's called cloaking and there are several ways to do it. A few years ago the way to go it was to track SE IP's and store them in a database. you show a content page to the SE and send other visitors to another page. now they are more advanced and its all real time. I do not want to get specific but I cant see many people using gooogles open DNS. esp when your registrar lets you use theirs for free, IE Godaddy.

Thanks for reminding. It's cloaking.

I use OpenDNS for my home Internet instead of Qwest's default DNS server.

GoDaddy offers free DNS Server? I mean the DNS look up server not the Domain name host. I believe the future Chrome OS will use Google's DNS look up server by default.

This is way off topic though. I will end here.

[Jonleehacker]

So we'll block this. A good defense is the best offense, in this case.

Just to be clear the code I posted above, blocks anyone using the Google toolbar, which may be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

But the software I linked to does allow toolbar users in, so it would be the ideal solution.

[BurnBright]

No offense, BurnBright, but a savvy competitor would NEVER put their own name on this.

Instead, they'd have an actual person stay at our inn, and theirs.

Post a review/comparison on our sidewiki, w/a link to our competitor.

Same thing can be done for sites like TripAdvisor, and other review sites. You can totally play by the rules, and shaft your competitor.

We choose not to do this. But not everyone has the same ethics-- esp if their business is on the skids.

Cost: One room night (off season: $120).

ROI: Staggering.

Example: One of our websites generates about US$1,000,000 in sales per year (no exaggeration).

It doesn't take much to sway customer opinion slightly-- all they'd have to do is convince 3-5% of the people we've gotten to our site-- and we'd lose tens of thousands of dollars.

So we'll block this. A good defense is the best offense, in this case.

I'll prolly link our blog to the sidewiki, and put other things on it as well-- for those that figure out a way around the block.

-Russ H.

I guess we have to disagree on this Russ. A few points:
You can ask a satisfied customer to post a comment on your sidewiki for less effort then a competitor to send a sleeper to stay at your BnB/hotel to post a negative comment. You can use this as an advertising tool yourself, not by promoting on your competitors sites but by putting positive comments on local attractions. ie: "We always recommend our guests visit here when they stay with us". They may reciprocate with positive comments on your site for this also. Imagine if this boosts your visitors by 10% because you did this first.
I have no idea what the penetration of the google toolbar is but I bet it is less then we both think. So not all people will see these notes and those who can may turn it off. And lastly look for the opportunity in it while also looking at the risks. Remember you are successful for more then just a great website but for providing a great product so you should not be too concerned about this it is just something you need to monitor.

[Russ H]

Just to be clear the code I posted above, blocks anyone using the Google toolbar, which may be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

But the software I linked to does allow toolbar users in, so it would be the ideal solution.

Jon-

Meant I wanted to block sidewiki, not the google toolbar!

Our web designers have been so much help that I passed on all of your info to them-- they will call me and give me their best analysis of where to go w/this.

I trust them, and (most important): They explain things to me in a way I can understand (something that, in the world of business, is highly underrated!).

I'll post an update to let you all know what we're going to do.

-Russ H.

[Russ H]

I guess we have to disagree on this Russ. A few points:
You can ask a satisfied customer to post a comment on your sidewiki for less effort then a competitor to send a sleeper to stay at your BnB/hotel to post a negative comment. You can use this as an advertising tool yourself, not by promoting on your competitors sites but by putting positive comments on local attractions. ie: "We always recommend our guests visit here when they stay with us". They may reciprocate with positive comments on your site for this also. Imagine if this boosts your visitors by 10% because you did this first.
I have no idea what the penetration of the google toolbar is but I bet it is less then we both think. So not all people will see these notes and those who can may turn it off. And lastly look for the opportunity in it while also looking at the risks. Remember you are successful for more then just a great website but for providing a great product so you should not be too concerned about this it is just something you need to monitor.

I understand your points, and I appreciate coming from a place of positive feedback.

We actively seek positive reviews for our inn. But even w/all the systems we've put in place, we still only get about one guest in 10-20 who wants to do this. And of that number, only one out of 10 actually DOES it-- even if we send them the direct links to the review sites!

So, about 1 in 100 people that stays here (and is happy w/us) actually posts a review.

Please understand the power of negative marketing. I can be positive and have hundreds of great reviews-- but all it takes is one scathing review to cost me tens of thousands of $$$ in business.

A few things about us and reviews/social marketing:

-We're currently the local experts for Napa Valley for TripAdvisor. When they gave us this honor 3 years ago, they told us we were the first lodging property to be awarded w/this, as they considered it a conflict of interest. Apparently so many people had written TA and suggested we be experts, they made an exception for us.

-We've been all about positive marketing and getting good reviews-- the google local shows us at over 300 reviews-- tied w/the other 2 top B&Bs in town. This will change shortly (see next point).

-I've had my head down for the past 4 years working on being a construction jobsite manager-- and now that our inn is done, I can finally get back to marketing-- something I *love* and am pretty good at. That's not ego talking-- I really did have a scary amount of success doing PR in my previous business (was considered the most published guy in my industry-- hundreds of different media articles/shows/etc. about me).

**********

I don't want you to think I'm running scared. I just know our market. I can't tell you how many guests say they've stayed w/us b/c they saw no negative reviews-- and that all they need to do is read ONE (!), and they just mouse to a different inn-- that may be only has 5 reviews (instead of 200)-- but they're all positive.

We've "buried" our bad reviews w/dozens of good ones. But I'm sure we still lose tentative folks unfamiliar w/the travel websites, who see one or two of our yucky reviews, and decided against staying w/us.

As crazy as that sounds, it really is that cut and dried.

In the weeks and months to come, I absolutely will be getting positive comments via social networking from our guests. I have a lot of semi-crazy ideas on how to do this (innovative things that haven't been done yet in the B&B biz), and will have fun w/this.

Stay tuned.

-Russ H.

[LightHouse]

Please understand the power of negative marketing. I can be positive and have hundreds of great reviews-- but all it takes is one scathing review to cost me tens of thousands of $$$ in business.

Don't forget that negative reviews can be positive in the eyes of skeptics. Fo rthe many folks out there that just don't trust anything, seeing one ortwo bad reviews can be a good thing. It would show them that these have to be all real reviews because you are not moderating out the bad and there is no way any business can satisfy everyone.

Whether that is true or not is in the eye of the beholder. But that could help a bit as well for a small percentage of your demographic. Although i do not know thathaving it on Wiki would be the best place if any at all.

Just a different angle to look at it.

-I've had my head down for the past 4 years working on being a construction jobsite manager-- and now that our inn is done, I can finally get back to marketing-- something I *love* and am pretty good at. That's not ego talking-- I really did have a scary amount of success doing PR in my previous business (was considered the most published guy in my industry-- hundreds of different media articles/shows/etc. about me).

After reading this thread i went in search of your thread on your website, was going to post for updates on how you all have been doing.

I must have inferior search skills, so you may be the better man to know where it is. And if you could, post some updates! From someone who is coming from web metrics to getting to know deep down business metrics i would like to see your perspective on how the sites are improving your overall business. You and I are going in opposite paths right now!

[Russ H]

From someone who is coming from web metrics to getting to know deep down business metrics i would like to see your perspective on how the sites are improving your overall business. You and I are going in opposite paths right now!

I'd love to hear more about this, Lighthouse-- give me some examples, and maybe we can help each other!

-Russ H.

[LightHouse]

I'd love to hear more about this, Lighthouse-- give me some examples, and maybe we can help each other!

-Russ H.

I thought i had made a thread about it, maybe i had deleted it. Not too sure. Recently i realized the importance of taking my business to the next level. In order to do that i needed to stop focusing on web metrics and the here and now and start looking at actual business metrics. Although i have a basic understanding, i had not understood it within my company.

A few week ago i stumbled upon a huge used book store in the area, they had a few books that were technical course books on business and one specifically on e-commerce business. It's a $112 book and they had last years copy for a mere $12!!! I have been reading through it and I am amazed at what data and moves i am missing. The next version comes out in Feb 2010, i will probably buy it for full price.

this is the 9th edition
Cengage - MIS Instructor Product Details Page - Electronic Commerce (0538469242)

this is the 8th, i currently have the 7th

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1423903056?ie=UTF8&tag=wwwwatchgeeks-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creative ASIN=1423903056"]Electronic Commerce 2008[/ame]


These have very in depth information from an advertising stand point. they show a bit about each channel of advertising and what it can do for an e-commerce business, although yours is a lead generation site, it may be beneficial.

Once i get a handle on what i am doing ill shoot you a PM maybe we can help each other mutually from different prespectives of our business'.