Thread: Hey Everyone! Troll Turned Member

Welcome, fellow traveller and good luck with your endeavours.

Welcome Dan! As roak said, good luck with your endeavors.

I think you mean "lurker", not "troll". Welcome!

Welcome to the forum.

Would you say if you have ZERO knowledge and ZERO desire to learn SEO you are better off paying to advertise on Google, or to hire an SEO person?

I don't know why but I REALLY can not get myself to even start to learn SEO other than spending a few minutes reading about it and then I am ready to nod off. Perhaps it is the fact that it is such a crap shoot in my mind.

Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

BTW I built a multimillion dollar company selling on line doing zero SEO, and zero paid advertising, only posting on relevant forums. But the new business I am starting there are not too many exact match forums for me to post on, hence my interest in either SEO or paid Google advertising.

Originally Posted by PatrickP

Welcome to the forum.

Would you say if you have ZERO knowledge and ZERO desire to learn SEO you are better off paying to advertise on Google, or to hire an SEO person?

I don't know why but I REALLY can not get myself to even start to learn SEO other than spending a few minutes reading about it and then I am ready to nod off. Perhaps it is the fact that it is such a crap shoot in my mind.

Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

BTW I built a multimillion dollar company selling on line doing zero SEO, and zero paid advertising, only posting on relevant forums. But the new business I am starting there are not too many exact match forums for me to post on, hence my interest in either SEO or paid Google advertising.

Thanks everyone for the nice hello everyone.

Patrick, I know how you feel. Trust me, I started SEO with very bad computer skills and a lot of that made me not want to learn SEO at all. After all, it is very tedious, time consuming and boring. Paid per click advertising is a great way to get traffic but be willing to shed a lot of money in the beginning on creating a good quality score and getting a feel for how the system works.

I love SEO for traffic purposes because you can see the exact ROI and once you learn how to do it, you can literally roll it over to all your sites. As you said, forums are a great way but obviously some products and services there are not many forums where you can target.

SEO is a lot more cost effective then PPC in my opinion. The thing about SEO is there is so much garbage on the net and the Warrior Forum where many people start, is just regurgitated nonsense created to sell people who nothing about SEO.

Learn the basics first. I remember my first time I paid some "guru" lady. She charged me about $5 gs to optimize my title tags and submit my site to google. At the time I thought that was normal. Let's just say she ripped me off by about $4,999!

Anyways Patrick, let me know if you have any more specific questions and I could get you on the right foot. Its so less complicated then many people think. Once you learn the basics you'lle be fine. I would say learn it first before you start shelling out money as many SEOs out there are strait scams.

Since I have been "lurking" not trolling lol, I even noticed some people doing SEO here and its funnny how much misinformation there is even in this forum.

Dan

Originally Posted by Seo Man Dan

Thanks everyone for the nice hello everyone.

Patrick, I know how you feel. Trust me, I started SEO with very bad computer skills and a lot of that made me not want to learn SEO at all. After all, it is very tedious, time consuming and boring. Paid per click advertising is a great way to get traffic but be willing to shed a lot of money in the beginning on creating a good quality score and getting a feel for how the system works.

I love SEO for traffic purposes because you can see the exact ROI and once you learn how to do it, you can literally roll it over to all your sites. As you said, forums are a great way but obviously some products and services there are not many forums where you can target.

SEO is a lot more cost effective then PPC in my opinion. The thing about SEO is there is so much garbage on the net and the Warrior Forum where many people start, is just regurgitated nonsense created to sell people who nothing about SEO.

Learn the basics first. I remember my first time I paid some "guru" lady. She charged me about $5 gs to optimize my title tags and submit my site to google. At the time I thought that was normal. Let's just say she ripped me off by about $4,999!

Anyways Patrick, let me know if you have any more specific questions and I could get you on the right foot. Its so less complicated then many people think. Once you learn the basics you'lle be fine. I would say learn it first before you start shelling out money as many SEOs out there are strait scams.

Since I have been "lurking" not trolling lol, I even noticed some people doing SEO here and its funnny how much misinformation there is even in this forum.

Dan

Any suggestions on where to find a good course on SEO?

Originally Posted by Seo Man Dan

Thanks everyone for the nice hello everyone.

Patrick, I know how you feel. Trust me, I started SEO with very bad computer skills and a lot of that made me not want to learn SEO at all. After all, it is very tedious, time consuming and boring. Paid per click advertising is a great way to get traffic but be willing to shed a lot of money in the beginning on creating a good quality score and getting a feel for how the system works.

I love SEO for traffic purposes because you can see the exact ROI and once you learn how to do it, you can literally roll it over to all your sites. As you said, forums are a great way but obviously some products and services there are not many forums where you can target.

SEO is a lot more cost effective then PPC in my opinion. The thing about SEO is there is so much garbage on the net and the Warrior Forum where many people start, is just regurgitated nonsense created to sell people who nothing about SEO.

Learn the basics first. I remember my first time I paid some "guru" lady. She charged me about $5 gs to optimize my title tags and submit my site to google. At the time I thought that was normal. Let's just say she ripped me off by about $4,999!

Anyways Patrick, let me know if you have any more specific questions and I could get you on the right foot. Its so less complicated then many people think. Once you learn the basics you'lle be fine. I would say learn it first before you start shelling out money as many SEOs out there are strait scams.

Since I have been "lurking" not trolling lol, I even noticed some people doing SEO here and its funnny how much misinformation there is even in this forum.

Dan

Thank you Dan!

VERY kind of you.

If I could pay a person to do it and they would guarantee me 1st page and I pay after it hits the 1st page I would DEFINITELY do it.

You see I don't like to take many risks and to me SEO is a time to risk to reward I am not willing to take as opposed to finding products which forum members want to buy, and then going on the forums to tell them about the products.

If I had to pick one reason I have never done any SEO is that in my opinion VERY few people who do a Google Search ever make it to the 2nd page of searches.

The likelihood of putting a website in the top 10 in my opinion is VERY rare. So I can picture myself taking the time to learn SEO, do what is needed and one of 3 things happens.

1. My site gets on the first page I continue SEO so it doesn't slip to the dreaded 2nd page and thousands of people go to my site and I sell a ton of stuff. So I am VERY happy.
2. My site never gets past the 3 page, I get almost no new traffic after having spent many many many hours on SEO and after waiting months and months HOPING it will hit the 1st page but it never does and I don't make 1 penny more than if I had never looked into SEO.
3. My site gets on the first page and a week later Google changes how they rank sites my site drops to the 20th page. So after spend TONS of hours to learn SEO, performing the SEO on my site I have not made one more penny than if I had never done any SEO.

It is my whole heated belief that it is in Googles best interest to continually change its ranking criteria so they sell more PPC ads.

Think about it realistically this is 100% a case of the fox watching the hen house. Google makes money by selling ads, not by showing people how to get their website to the 1st page.

If this were not true than why don't companies offer to get your site to page one BEFORE you pay them?

So for me personally I see my time and the time of my reps spent on forums where I am 100% sure that when they make a post about my company it WILL be read by tens if not hundreds or thousands of people who are interested in what I am selling.

Originally Posted by PatrickP

Thank you Dan!

VERY kind of you.

If I could pay a person to do it and they would guarantee me 1st page and I pay after it hits the 1st page I would DEFINITELY do it.

You see I don't like to take many risks and to me SEO is a time to risk to reward I am not willing to take as opposed to finding products which forum members want to buy, and then going on the forums to tell them about the products.

If I had to pick one reason I have never done any SEO is that in my opinion VERY few people who do a Google Search ever make it to the 2nd page of searches.

The likelihood of putting a website in the top 10 in my opinion is VERY rare. So I can picture myself taking the time to learn SEO, do what is needed and one of 3 things happens.

1. My site gets on the first page I continue SEO so it doesn't slip to the dreaded 2nd page and thousands of people go to my site and I sell a ton of stuff. So I am VERY happy.
2. My site never gets past the 3 page, I get almost no new traffic after having spent many many many hours on SEO and after waiting months and months HOPING it will hit the 1st page but it never does and I don't make 1 penny more than if I had never looked into SEO.
3. My site gets on the first page and a week later Google changes how they rank sites my site drops to the 20th page. So after spend TONS of hours to learn SEO, performing the SEO on my site I have not made one more penny than if I had never done any SEO.

It is my whole heated belief that it is in Googles best interest to continually change its ranking criteria so they sell more PPC ads.

Think about it realistically this is 100% a case of the fox watching the hen house. Google makes money by selling ads, not by showing people how to get their website to the 1st page.

If this were not true than why don't companies offer to get your site to page one BEFORE you pay them?

So for me personally I see my time and the time of my reps spent on forums where I am 100% sure that when they make a post about my company it WILL be read by tens if not hundreds or thousands of people who are interested in what I am selling.

You make some valid points and you are totally right when you say that google changes its algorithm so that people will start paying for PPC ads. But just as google can be gamed (which i have done and am doing right now) currently, there will always be avenues for gaming the system in the future. You just have to stay on top of the game which many people dont want to and that is why they end up buying PPC ads.

SEO is all about testing and to really do it right you have to have tons of sites and you have to fail tons of times. For someone not really invested in learning about it and testing a lot, then I would say to stear clear. PPC might be a better thing for you.

As for the guaranteeing the top spot, I see your point however myself and any legimate SEOs would never take you up on this offer because no one can guarantee a top spot. If I were to guarantee you a top spot, then I might as well guarantee myself a top spot and do the site myself. I have had people want me to guarantee them a return on their investment. I couldn't help but laugh on this one.

However if there are people searching for a product you sell, you are missing out on a huge chunk of that profit by not doing some sort of PPC or seo marketing. PPC might be the best avenue for you.

P.S. Page one rankings are not as hard as you think. It just takes some time and a little effort. SEO companies make it out to being super hard because they want to act like they are doing something extra ordinary that no one else can do. They are a dime a dozen, with very few legitimate ones and most just scam artists.

Hope this helps clear up a little LOL

Originally Posted by Stridone

Any suggestions on where to find a good course on SEO?

Theres not really any guide as SEO is more of an art then just a method. I would however suggest to dive into www.Blackhatworld.com. I have learned everything I know and I owe all my success to this forum.

PM me, if you need help I can steer you in the right direction.

Dan

Hey, I must have missed your intro from the other day, welcome to the forum Dan.

Welcome aboard Dan.