Thread: I hit a wall, would like some opinions

2K, but want a professional app.

go get a job, or raise the money to get the app done right. expect 4-15K for a SUPER nice app

you can do one for uner 400 if its an easy app.


coding can take you months to learn, so by the time you get to market, there might be 20 other apps ahead of you.


speed matters.

programing is not the way to go.


see programing thread.

I have ZERO experience with Apps but just a thought.

Do you think it would still be 4 - 15K hiring a person from the Philippines?

I have worked with guys from there who do programming for less than $10 a day.

Originally Posted by PatrickP

I have ZERO experience with Apps but just a thought.

Do you think it would still be 4 - 15K hiring a person from the Philippines?

I have worked with guys from there who do programming for less than $10 a day.

we do apps, and have a Rolodex of developers.
you can get alot done for 400 bucks.
some for 1K

we budget 1-3K for utility type apps,
and 5-15K for full on rolled out apps.

and yes we already have some developers in the Philippines.

Z

Originally Posted by zendolphin

2K, but want a professional app.

go get a job, or raise the money to get the app done right. expect 4-15K for a SUPER nice app

you can do one for uner 400 if its an easy app.


coding can take you months to learn, so by the time you get to market, there might be 20 other apps ahead of you.


speed matters.

programing is not the way to go.


see programing thread.

7.64 an hour, 8 hours a day would earn me $61.12 a day. Raising 2k would mean 32.7 days of straight 8 hour work days, I would be willing to do it but nobody would hire me to work 7 days a week 8 hours a day, it would take closer to 2 months, plus I have to find a job first, all in all I could probably raise that by the end of July, great, school starts in a couple of weeks then, and I will have very limited time once again...

I'm not talking the next Viddy or 3D full graphic racing games, I'm thinking simple, yet well designed games much like "Logo Quiz Game", do you think something like that would still run 4-15k? If so then I need to re-evaluate my fastlane and start working on another idea, I just simply don't have the time or resources to raise that type of funding at this point..

Here is why I'm interested in the app game: I'm sitting in math class, ten minutes into work time, I look up, still half dazed from the nap I was just taking, and this is what I see. I see 12 iPhones and 3-4 androids all in the hands of my classmates, these are actual numbers (that's HALF OF THE CLASS). What in the world could they all be playing, EVERY single iPhone is playing the "Logos Quiz Game" and every android is playing the android logos quiz game. Holy sh!t, I am on the front lines of the app world, I saw words with friends get dumped for draw something in days, I saw draw something get beat out by Logos Quiz Game in hours! I of all people have the insight into what people are playing and what formula makes the next big thing. I lean towards iOS simply because A) 12 of the 16 phones out in class are iPhones and B) Kids are a lot more open to purchasing a dollar game from their iTunes account than buying something off of android which requires going through your carrier (trust me I've seen some kids dump $20 of daddy's itunes cash into dragonvale points!!!)

Sorry for all the blabber, I am just trying to figure this all out....

Don't lean towards iOS just because there's more iPhones in the class, remember there's a whole world out there besides your class...
As for the buying power, it seems that it's easier to earn some bucks with an iPhone app vs Android but if you check some Android games you'll see that most of the top grossing chart games are going free with in-app purchases... So there's still people with Android phones buying games/game items....

If you want to learn how to build a game I suggest trying AndEngine, it's an open source 2D game engine for Android.

I saw words with friends get dumped for draw something in days, I saw draw something get beat out by Logos Quiz Game in hours!

games can be fickle, how do you know your game wont be knocked out in minuets?

go read the chad mureta blog post on tim ferris's blog

it lays out a simple process.
or get his book

same thing

games are good but might cost you more.

see what else is out there you could model....

(hint hint)

Z

Originally Posted by Mike39

7.64 an hour, 8 hours a day would earn me $61.12 a day. Raising 2k would mean 32.7 days of straight 8 hour work days, I would be willing to do it but nobody would hire me to work 7 days a week 8 hours a day, it would take closer to 2 months, plus I have to find a job first, all in all I could probably raise that by the end of July, great, school starts in a couple of weeks then, and I will have very limited time once again...

I work seven days a week (an actual job, not including business ventures on the side). Nobody will hire you for 7 day-a-week 8hr job? Then get two part time jobs. Not appealing? Buy and sell things for profit.. sell all the crap you don't use/haven't looked at in months. Everyone has that kind of stuff laying around.

Not hard to turn your 2k into 4k... Can be done in a week. A bunch of people on here can probably do it in a day or two.

On the right track, but don't let a measly two grand stop you.

Why do you want to learn to program? If it's just to jump on the app bandwagon, then yeah go outsource it. If, however, it's to develop a skill, then set aside time (30 mins to 1 hour) every day or at least a couple of times a week to learning how to program, and then stick to the schedule.

Thanks for all the responses guys, you have given me a LOT to consider, I think as of now, I would like to outsource a project and see how it runs.

If I have some success, I may chose to learn to code at a basic level so I can communicate clearer with a programmer and even do some debugging of my own if need be instead of re-hiring someone to fix it

If I fail completely, I will either learn to code myself so I can develop apps at a low cost and try to learn what works and what doesn't or if I really get burned, I may just take my losses and get out of the game and on to the next business (even though this is NOT ideal whatsoever)

EXCITING STUFF:
I think I stumbled upon a pretty awesome idea today for an app, its relatively simple and it definitely has a huge market with NO competition, its also not a game (took your advice zen ) and should be relatively simple to code! I am going to start drawing up some sketches, and making some Photoshop prototypes so I can get this thing going!

If I get to a point where I feel confident enough to go to a programmer via elance or odesk (or another site), I will let you guys (Zen and Bond) know!

Awesome!

Hey Mike, one step in the middle between learning "full programming" and outsourcing could be using a frawemork (like CodeIgniter). It's easy to learn and comes with a bunch of useful functions that will make it easier to code your web app.

Originally Posted by zendolphin

we do apps, and have a Rolodex of developers.
you can get alot done for 400 bucks.
some for 1K

we budget 1-3K for utility type apps,
and 5-15K for full on rolled out apps.

and yes we already have some developers in the Philippines.

Z

Z-

I'm about three weeks away from conducting some interviews for app programmers. What site have you had the best experience with when developing apps? Any specific programmers you would recommend or to avoid? As far the $1-3k budget for utility apps, what kind of app would you expect to get out of that in terms of it's size? I'd love to see you work if you wouldn't mind sharing. Thanks so much.

Originally Posted by Mike39

I have PLENTY of time to learn C+++ or Java

I like this. I think you should do it yourself. If you have plenty of time to learn then it's probably best in the long run to know how to do it, so you can fix problems as they arise.

I'm having my first app built for a little more than half of your budget. I've never worked with the programmer before so I am taking a chance. I'll let you know how it goes.

2 options you may consider without putting all of your money on the line:

Partner up with someone - Go in 50/50 on an app so you don't burn all of your capital. You could even have 2 built to increase your likelihood of profitablity.

Give away your ideas - Give away your ideas for a percentage of future profits. You work with someone who has money to bring an app to the market. If profitable you keep a percentage. Do this once or twice and you'll be able to venture out on your own.

I'd spend all the time I could learning how to promote/market/sell apps and how people are doing that. In the end, signups/sales are the only thing that matters anyway.

Even if no app was created, you'd still have your capital and know how to promote your apps when you start making them or having them made for you. Almost nothing "sells itself." As the founder of a major corporation said last century when replying to a question from a reporter about why he keeps advertising 24/7 across all media channels even though the entire country knew of his brand [which by the way was due to advertising], (paraphrasing), "well you know how this train has engines?" 'Yeah.' "What do you suppose would happen if they were removed."

Originally Posted by Jake

I'm having my first app built for a little more than half of your budget. I've never worked with the programmer before so I am taking a chance. I'll let you know how it goes.

2 options you may consider without putting all of your money on the line:

Partner up with someone - Go in 50/50 on an app so you don't burn all of your capital. You could even have 2 built to increase your likelihood of profitablity.

Give away your ideas - Give away your ideas for a percentage of future profits. You work with someone who has money to bring an app to the market. If profitable you keep a percentage. Do this once or twice and you'll be able to venture out on your own.

Thanks for the advice Jake, I wish I could get local labor for that price, I think the best deal I have found is for 2k and that was for a team of 3 developers. With that being said, I am not really interested in partnering with anyone or giving my ideas away, for several reasons. One, nobody would be willing to partner or invest in someone under 18, its just not going to happen, the only way I could possibly get a partner or investor would be to work through my parents which means that they would be in control really, they could pull the plug at any second or make a decision for me (not good and not NECST). Two, I have another project that I could effectively set up for maybe 5-7k, I want to maximize my chances of making money on an app so I would hate to make say 7k net and have to give 1/2 (or more) of that away to an investor, I would much rather put in the hours, learn the code, raise the funding, and have it built so that I get maximized profits. Also, my 1st app will be the only app I pay to have built, I am learning to program within the next year.

Originally Posted by deepestblue

I'd spend all the time I could learning how to promote/market/sell apps and how people are doing that. In the end, signups/sales are the only thing that matters anyway.

Even if no app was created, you'd still have your capital and know how to promote your apps when you start making them or having them made for you. Almost nothing "sells itself." As the founder of a major corporation said last century when replying to a question from a reporter about why he keeps advertising 24/7 across all media channels even though the entire country knew of his brand [which by the way was due to advertising], (paraphrasing), "well you know how this train has engines?" 'Yeah.' "What do you suppose would happen if they were removed."

GOLD, to be truthful, I have not looked into app marketing all that much when I should be focusing on the marketing side of things just as much if not more than the app itself. Thank you deepestblue for pointing this out to me, I will begin researching app marketing more in depth as soon as I finish typing this!!

By the way and completely off topic, I found this at Sprouts today when I was re-stocking my loose leaf teas, its called Yerba Mate, its an herb you mix with hot water and it tastes absolutely amazing, I have 2 gourds of it tonight. It is an alternative to coffee and has been drank by people in South America for a long time

Does this stuff work better than coffee? I hate the taste of coffee but I still drink it. I want to get away from coffe and I think redbull is an unsafe alternative.


About the price of outsourcing - if you look in the right places I think 2k can get you a good looking app. Remember, you can always fix it up and and put even more money into it after you develop it.

Originally Posted by johnp

Does this stuff work better than coffee? I hate the taste of coffee but I still drink it. I want to get away from coffe and I think redbull is an unsafe alternative.


About the price of outsourcing - if you look in the right places I think 2k can get you a good looking app. Remember, you can always fix it up and and put even more money into it after you develop it.

It has about 1/3 to 1/2 of the caffeine as coffee, but it will definitely still help you wake up in the mornings or stay awake later in the night and it tastes better than coffee in my opinion, its like a smokey tea flavor, kind of hard do describe

I can get it outsourced for 2k, and I'm sure they would do a great job, I'm concerned with the legal aspects of the app though, the company that makes the real world product called nightwave has a patent pending and I'm concerned that I will have patent issues in the next couple of years once it gets approved

Thanks for that info. So I guess i can just make a shit load of it and put it in a big cup. It might be worth it.

I know legal fees can get pretty expensive. One of my investors forked over $200 per hour for a lawyer when I was still in "idea mode" and it was the biggest waste of money and time. It was like we were on a clock and he didn't seem to thrilled about the idea of outsourcing to another country and he knew nothing about technology. So if you look into legal stuff make sure your lawyers know about this stuff.