Thread: Business Ethics

Originally Posted by spidey983

as long as whatever we do maximizes profit, we are doing our society some good, regardless of whether it's ethical or not.

Thats ridiculous.

Care to provide any examples? Good ethics, in many cases, are subjective.

I dont think MF advocated ripping people off. Read one of his books, he makes sense.

I cant easily think of something that is victimless and legal that might be unethical, can you explain?

Originally Posted by Kak

I cant easily think of something that is victimless and legal that might be unethical, can you explain?

I have problem replying to threads recently. I hope someone fix the problem. I hope 'replying with quote' works.

One recent example would be a friend ask me to get my employees to complete her PhD thesis for her. According to her, that would give her more time to take care of her kids and also improve her financial situation.

Originally Posted by Rain

Care to provide any examples? Good ethics, in many cases, are subjective.

This is an example from a few years ago when I was a financial analyst. Every single day I had to prepare financial analysis/reports with information which I knew was bad. I had to do it or risk getting fired.

In my opinion, ethical dilemmas are common in certain situations.

Originally Posted by spidey983

I have problem replying to threads recently. I hope someone fix the problem. I hope 'replying with quote' works.

One recent example would be a friend ask me to get my employees to complete her PhD thesis for her. According to her, that would give her more time to take care of her kids and also improve her financial situation.

I would say no, thats cheating and it isnt victimless.

Freedman was right and wrong. He left out the social costs of maximizing profit at all costs. What should REALLY be done is 'intersecting the maximization of profit with the lowest social cost possible so that you truly get the highest profit margin'.

As far as being victimless and legal, I'd say it's fair game. As long as you don't cause customers or potential customers any sort of hindrance.

Originally Posted by spidey983

One recent example would be a friend ask me to get my employees to complete her PhD thesis for her. According to her, that would give her more time to take care of her kids and also improve her financial situation.

Yeah, that's academic dishonesty and is not victimless. Even though academic dishonesty is ridiculously common, it doesn't make it right.

Plus, why are you making your employees do something that isn't in their job description? That just causes problems. The victim is the employee, since they are doing something they should not have to do. Some of them may have a huge problem with it, but they'll do anything to keep their jobs. Your using their jobs to scare them into doing things they don't want to do. That's not just wrong, that's wage slavery.

I know I'm sounding like an idealist here, but that is wrong, even if the employees are getting paid extra to do it.

Originally Posted by jilla82

Thats ridiculous.

Myself and many would agree with you. But that's really what the guy said. He wrote an essay about it.

Originally Posted by spidey983

This is an example from a few years ago when I was a financial analyst. Every single day I had to prepare financial analysis/reports with information which I knew was bad. I had to do it or risk getting fired.

In my opinion, ethical dilemmas are common in certain situations.

In this kind of situation you have 3 options and they all suck.

-Listen
-Say you will but dont
-Blatently dont

You run into this more in slowlane jobs because someone has the control over you.

If you take MF too literally you start not to like him. Really, why don't I dabble in some human trafficing and start a cocaine ring? I doubt MF would advocate that.

Originally Posted by The-J

'intersecting the maximization of profit with the lowest social cost possible so that you truly get the highest profit margin'.

To get the highest profit margin, I said Yes to the friend and her thesis. As for social cost in that case, I don't really know..

I would like to think that by ruthlessly expanding my businesses and making money, I am providing employment and at the same time taking care of my family; provided I am not doing anything illegal.

Anyone knows why I can't 'post quick reply'?

Originally Posted by spidey983

To get the highest profit margin, I said Yes to the friend and her thesis. As for social cost in that case, I don't think it is very high - it's debatable, in my opinion.

I dunno, I just feel highly insulted when people justify academic dishonesty in any way. I understand that getting any sort of college degree is about the money, but I think if she can't find the time or doesn't want to put in the time to writing a dissertation or a thesis then maybe she doesn't deserve that pay raise she'll get from a Ph.D.

Just a thought.

As far as Freedman is concerned, he assumes that the free market is perfect when it's obviously not (look at the housing crisis). He forgets that humans are primarily motivated by self-preservation (debatable; if you'd like to debate this keep politics and such out of it). He makes great points, but his views seem to be outdated.

Originally Posted by spidey983

One recent example would be a friend ask me to get my employees to complete her PhD thesis for her. According to her, that would give her more time to take care of her kids and also improve her financial situation.

What the heck does that have to do with "on your way to the fastlane" LOL. That is academic dishonesty, not too mention she can get kicked out of school for that. Oh my...

Originally Posted by LamboMP

What the heck does that have to do with "on your way to the fastlane" LOL. That is academic dishonesty, not too mention she can get kicked out of school for that. Oh my...

Yeah, if someone finds out about it (and it's not too hard to discover) then she'll get kicked out without a refund. Whose fault will it be? Yours. You'll lose a friend, she'll ask for a refund, and it'll just begin a whole shitstorm.

Or you'll get lucky and nothing will happen. Really willing to roll the dice, there?

This thread can't be serious. Getting your employee to do someone elses homework? No, can't be serious.

Originally Posted by The-J

I dunno, I just feel highly insulted when people justify academic dishonesty in any way. I understand that getting any sort of college degree is about the money, but I think if she can't find the time or doesn't want to put in the time to writing a dissertation or a thesis then maybe she doesn't deserve that pay raise she'll get from a Ph.D.

Just a thought.

As far as Freedman is concerned, he assumes that the free market is perfect when it's obviously not (look at the housing crisis). He forgets that humans are primarily motivated by self-preservation (debatable; if you'd like to debate this keep politics and such out of it). He makes great points, but his views seem to be outdated.

J, the housing crash was a result of easy money from sub prime mortgage ledgislation. It was actually from trying to change the free market.

College is headed that direction.

Free market economies are always at some form of equilibrium, when you change that point through ledgislation or whatnot trying to improve there is always another axis that is effected.

Easy money has driven up the price of college by an obsurd amount.

Originally Posted by Kak

J, the housing crash was a result of easy money from sub prime mortgage ledgislation. It was actually from trying to change the free market.

College is headed that direction.

Free market economies are always at some form of equilibrium, when you change that point through ledgislation or whatnot trying to improve there is always another axis that is effected.

Easy money has driven up the price of college by an obsurd amount.

Methinks this is going to turn political real fast. Thing is, a true free market economy is impossible. There will always be another party, government or whatever, that will intervene. Same with a true command economy; there will always be some sort of outside party.

But this isn't a thread about what the free market entails, this is a thread about ethical behaviour. (Although I agree about the college thing; it's a bubble waiting to burst).

Don't do people's theses or dissertations for them anymore. That could turn into a mistake costing them tens of thousands of dollars (I don't know how much a Ph.D. costs in Australia, might be less). Next time you have an ethics problem, try posting it here to get opinions BEFORE YOU GO THROUGH WITH IT

Originally Posted by The-J

Methinks this is going to turn political real fast. Thing is, a true free market economy is impossible. There will always be another party, government or whatever, that will intervene. Same with a true command economy; there will always be some sort of outside party.

But this isn't a thread about what the free market entails, this is a thread about ethical behaviour. (Although I agree about the college thing; it's a bubble waiting to burst).

Don't do people's theses or dissertations for them anymore. That could turn into a mistake costing them tens of thousands of dollars (I don't know how much a Ph.D. costs in Australia, might be less). Next time you have an ethics problem, try posting it here to get opinions BEFORE YOU GO THROUGH WITH IT

I agree. It is impossible to get a true free market.