Thread: The secret that was left out of The Millionaire Fast Lane Book

I'll give an example:

Suppose you build a website where you sell your widget and you SEO it to #1 on your keyword

Your website gets 100 visitors per day.

You sell 2 widgets per day to those 100 visitors @ $10 each / gross profit per day = $20

You buy the widgets @ $5 each, so net profit per day = $10

Why would you sell a product for only $10 each can you tell me one product that is sold at this low of price?
If the Product only Cost $10 I don't think the pay per click will be .50 Cents especially if you choose to show up on the number 7-8 spots on google. With the fast lane you have Control if your read the end of the book where he talks about commandments, you can decide the price you'd like to charge, factor your marketing expenses into the product price because the odds are competitors will have the same marketing cost as you.

Suppose you build a website where you sell your widget and you SEO it to #1 on your keyword

Your website gets 100 visitors per day.

Choose a Larger Market, no point entering a market where #1 for your keyword gets 100 per day, if you focused and learned SEO and marketed and your company you should be getting more than 100 visitors per day. Your stuck in the frame of mind of an affiliate, I was there also, all the SEO guru's tell you to target long tell low competition keywords. If you spent a 1-2 Years SEOing your site and learning spending 5-6 hours a day on it, you could easily rank #1 for some high competition keywords.

Am I the only one that realizes that certain niches / business models are just dead ends without exponential growth potential?

I assume most people here realize it, that's why we don't see everyone hopping into the door to door magazine subscription sales business.

But if he was to do it again TODAY, from scratch, with the current competition and advertising costs, I doubt he could make it.

This is an irrelevant argument as timing is everything in entrepreneurship, you need to fill an unmet need in the market. Don't choose lead generation only because you see others made money with it. Choose a market that has not been commoditized, which lead generation has almost become. If your stuck on lead generation than innovate and find a new way to deliver higher quality, higher converting leads to consumers.

I guarantee you could sell leads to real estate agents if you had appointments booked for the agents as most of the real estate lead generation companies are selling extremely low quality leads for high prices. These people have only searched for houses when captured.

I can't understand how can you achieve "explosive growth" with SEO, when it takes at least 6 months to rank for any given low-competition-keyword.

Your way off on your estimates, in six months you should be ranking for high competition keywords if you spend enough time. If it's a low competition keyword it will only take a week or two after launching the website. I think your overestimating the complexity of SEO.
Read this article in the Wall Street Journal about SEO and stop focusing on SEO if that business model is saturated innovate a new business model.
Google Penalizes Overstock for Search Tactics - WSJ.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/bu...pagewanted=all

You get to #1 and a journalist finds your page, and writes an article about your company on the homepage of inc, that's explosive growth, SEO is a marketing method and is not innovative, SEO is only part of a larger strategy.

Edit: Wanted to include that explosive growth is not about how you advertise and market, realize that SEO is a way of marketing your product, service or company. Explosive growth is about having a product that is able to scale using many different marketing techniques, not limiting yourself in the number you can produce. A single franchise is not explosive because you can't bring in 10,000 people a day its unexplosive. A internet Lead gen is only one example of explosive if the market is large enough with not enough competitors. I think MJ listed the business models as examples and most fast lane businesses use a variant of each of those models. Your taking Lead gen and the way MJ did lead Gen as the only way people do lead generation. This is incorrect.

This guys impossible. Can we change your user name to "can'tman". Stop making excuses and do something already.

Originally Posted by JamItFast

Why would you sell a product for only $10 each can you tell me one product that is sold at this low of price?
If the Product only Cost $10 I don't think the pay per click will be .50 Cents especially if you choose to show up on the number 7-8 spots on google. With the fast lane you have Control if your read the end of the book where he talks about commandments, you can decide the price you'd like to charge, factor your marketing expenses into the product price because the odds are competitors will have the same marketing cost as you.



Choose a Larger Market, no point entering a market where #1 for your keyword gets 100 per day, if you focused and learned SEO and marketed and your company you should be getting more than 100 visitors per day. Your stuck in the frame of mind of an affiliate, I was there also, all the SEO guru's tell you to target long tell low competition keywords. If you spent a 1-2 Years SEOing your site and learning spending 5-6 hours a day on it, you could easily rank #1 for some high competition keywords.



I assume most people here realize it, that's why we don't see everyone hopping into the door to door magazine subscription sales business.



This is an irrelevant argument as timing is everything in entrepreneurship, you need to fill an unmet need in the market. Don't choose lead generation only because you see others made money with it. Choose a market that has not been commoditized, which lead generation has almost become. If your stuck on lead generation than innovate and find a new way to deliver higher quality, higher converting leads to consumers.

I guarantee you could sell leads to real estate agents if you had appointments booked for the agents as most of the real estate lead generation companies are selling extremely low quality leads for high prices. These people have only searched for houses when captured.



Your way off on your estimates, in six months you should be ranking for high competition keywords if you spend enough time. If it's a low competition keyword it will only take a week or two after launching the website. I think your overestimating the complexity of SEO.
Read this article in the Wall Street Journal about SEO and stop focusing on SEO if that business model is saturated innovate a new business model.
Google Penalizes Overstock for Search Tactics - WSJ.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/bu...pagewanted=all

You get to #1 and a journalist finds your page, and writes an article about your company on the homepage of inc, that's explosive growth, SEO is a marketing method and is not innovative, SEO is only part of a larger strategy.

Edit: Wanted to include that explosive growth is not about how you advertise and market, realize that SEO is a way of marketing your product, service or company. Explosive growth is about having a product that is able to scale using many different marketing techniques, not limiting yourself in the number you can produce. A single franchise is not explosive because you can't bring in 10,000 people a day its unexplosive. A internet Lead gen is only one example of explosive if the market is large enough with not enough competitors. I think MJ listed the business models as examples and most fast lane businesses use a variant of each of those models. Your taking Lead gen and the way MJ did lead Gen as the only way people do lead generation. This is incorrect.

I would like to request that you post more often.

Especially about SEO.

Thanks

Just wanted to say "Thanks" to Vigilante for sharing your experiences on this thread, it's good to see you back, man!

I'm addicted to you people.

So far, only MJ, JamItFast and Vigilante have contributed any value to this thread. The others are just giving pointless answers.

It kind of reminds me those "law of attraction" guys that keep saying "you just have to keep visualizing! you are not yet truly believing you can do it!"... C'mon guys... get out

It's extremely annoying how many of you come to this thread and reply like I have no idea of what I'm talking about.

I wonder how many of you who have replied actually experienced this problem to be capable of understanding the situation.

This is serious guys.


@JamItFast

Why would you sell a product for only $10 each can you tell me one product that is sold at this low of price?

Two reasons:

Reson 1)

If you follow most of the models suggested by MJ in the book, you will be brokering something / selling advertising / lead generation.

In any of this models, you only get a share of what you make.

If you are getting 10% commission and you sell a widget that costs $100, you get $10, despite being selling a relatively high-unit-price.

In lead gen or advertising, you get to keep even less in most cases.

So, it's not like you are selling a low priced item, it's more like you are only getting a share of it.

Reson 2)

If you decide to sell higher priced widgets instead, to compensate for the "low margins", you market will narrow.

The more expensive something is, the less people can afford it.

Most "mass market" products are all very affordable.



Now, regarding SEO...

I just need someone to explain to me how scale is achieved through SEO - real scale, enough to generate 10.000 visitors a day.

Do you rank for a long tail keyword, and when you are successful you start ranking for other related long tail keywords?


I don't get it...

Even in the offline world, the people I know start by direct mail... buying just 5000 names...
if they make it work... they buy more names...
when the list is used, they look for related lists
when there are no more lists, they get a half page ad on a magazine
if it works, they get a full page ad
if it works they expand to other magazines
and so on and so on, and eventually they get into television.

I can understand this.... it's logical...

I can understand how someone could do something similar on the internet... trying ads for one keyword, and if it works, buy ads for related keywords... etc

But SEO?

It's not only slow, but the growth seems to be linear.

I'm not talking about a PR stunt that can give you a boost, I'm talking about something stable.

I don't see where's the explosive growth, or how you can scale something to 10.000 visitors a day on SEO alone, when most keys with volume are really a tough nut to crack and will take an undefined amount of time to rank for.

It's seems slow, unreliable and unpredictable.

It's really different from the instant/exponential/explosive growth I know from paid advertising.


I'd love to be proven wrong, or that someone shows me what I'm missing.

lol I laid out EXACTLY how I built 2 different businesses.

BTW where ever did you come up with your forum name???

Troll might have been even more appropriate.

scale isnt done with seo. you are right. you get to a point of saturation and then thats it... there is no more growth. if the only thing you want to do is make money using seo. you cant do it with 1 website... if you want 10k daily visitors you need probably many many more websites. so start today, make and seo 5 a day and maybe in a year you will have the numbers you want.

you are the one who thinks seo is the way to go. noone here has actually pointed you in that direction.

you wont get into the fast lane hocking other peoples products. that right there is your fatal flaw. you are creating yourself a job doing seo forever.


just becuase you cant see the value in the others postings, certianly doesnt mean there isnt value to be had. just maybe not by you.

@CarrieW,

scale isnt done with seo. you are right. you get to a point of saturation and then thats it... there is no more growth.

Alelujia! Someone who gets it!

That's exactly my point.



So what do you do when you reach the point of saturation with one site?

- Do you try to rank for other keywords with significant traffic?

it seems not only slow, but very unpredictable... who knows if 1 year after you'll be ranking at all, or if google doesn't change its algorythm...

- Do you get into paid advertising?

if you are brokering/selling advertising/selling leads you'll have a tough time going paid on ads... probably you won't be able to afford it


The question really is...

Is there any other option for high volume, constant traffic when you reach the point of saturation with 1 site, other than these 2 ?

you wont get into the fast lane hocking other peoples products. that right there is your fatal flaw. you are creating yourself a job doing seo forever.

Can you expand on this?

Originally Posted by Disruptive

I just need someone to explain to me how scale is achieved through SEO - real scale, enough to generate 10.000 visitors a day.

Why are you caught up on 10,000 visitors a day?? Why do you think you need that many visitors a day to make money?

Originally Posted by Disruptive

In lead gen or advertising, you get to keep even less in most cases.

Regarding lead gen, there's a couple different ways you could do it - 1) sell the lead to multiple buyers or 2) sell the leads exclusively to one buyer. If you set your prices right, you could definitely do PPC and make $$ with lead gen.


I'm not sure if you're over-thinking all of this or if you're just tunnel-visioned on an unsurmountable roadblock, but either way, try to change your perspective from how it can't be done to how can it be done. It's not rocket science man.

Originally Posted by Disruptive

Is there any other option for high volume, constant traffic when you reach the point of saturation with 1 site, other than these 2 ?

Let me tell you a story.

One time I was on reddit.com and seen a post for some cool artwork for $25. In the post was a link to fab.com (I'm not affiliated - just using them as a model). I (along with several thousand others) follow the link. At the top of the page is an offer to make $25 for every 10 friends that sign up on Facebook.

Shit, I can get this sweet artwork for free if I post a link to my FB wall and get 10 friends to sign up I think.

So, I get 10 friends to sign up and get my free artwork. 2 of those friends do the same thing and now the link is broadcasted to 1000+ users on FB. The chain continues and you have 10,000 people on your site a day (with zero advertising money) buying artwork they didn't know they even wanted.

long story short, shut up about SEO.

Originally Posted by Disruptive

@CarrieW,



Alelujia! Someone who gets it!

That's exactly my point.



So what do you do when you reach the point of saturation with one site?

- Do you try to rank for other keywords with significant traffic?

it seems not only slow, but very unpredictable... who knows if 1 year after you'll be ranking at all, or if google doesn't change its algorythm...

- Do you get into paid advertising?

if you are brokering/selling advertising/selling leads you'll have a tough time going paid on ads... probably you won't be able to afford it


The question really is...

Is there any other option for high volume, constant traffic when you reach the point of saturation with 1 site, other than these 2 ?







Can you expand on this?

sure. essentially all you are doing is making yourself a sales man for someone else. the money is in creating the product or value and having other people do seo for you and selling your products on your behalf.

you want to be the top of the food chain not taking the leftover scraps that fall on the floor.

Milkanic,

What you just suggested IS paid traffic. In fact, you are paying $2.5 per "signup", hardly cheap.

That's exactly what I'm suggesting from the beginning.

I say that to achieve significant scale... to the tune of 10.000+ people on your site a day... you have to go into paid traffic.

When most people here, including MJ, say that they have done it mostly with SEO.


The problem is, most models suggested by MJ can't be scaled significantly and profitably via paid traffic, the advertising costs today are simply too high for a business model that relies on commissions.

So you are basically "stuck" with SEO.


So what do you do when you reach saturarion via SEO if you can't afford to grow via paid advertising?

Are you going to keep trying to rank for long tails with low traffic, and hopefully, after you build 100 websites you get your scale?

Where is your scale when paid advertising is not an option?

and sure everything you said is right... you get to a point of saturation and then the choices are continue to hone in on more keywords to saturate(eventually you will run out) or you move to a different product/ page and start all over again... basically it will become a never ending cycle of constantly replacing the worn out websites/keywords. forever!
that is why people are saying what they are saying... you are in a very limiting belief cycle... you need to break that and look at the situation from a differnt angle.

Dude, give it a FN rest.

Nothing we can say will change your mind.

You're convinced that no internet business started in 2012 can make money by using a mix of SEO, PPC, directory advertising, affiliate marketing, social media, word-of-mouth, and traditional marketing. (And yes, any successful startup NOW [or started 10 years ago] will require a mix of this, not "just SEO" or "just PPC".) Building traffic is a tiresome, evolutionary process requiring a mix of all the above.

You're searching for overnight success and "exponential growth" yet, you don't want to put forth any effort for it. You talk about 10,000 visitors a day but refuse to examine how to FIRST achieve 100 visitors a day. Nope, you want to launch and in 2 weeks, be at 10,000 visitors per day. Then you whine that "SEO is too slow." (Translation: I'm to lazy to do the hard work; I'd rather pay my way in)

You suffer from what I call the "silver bullet syndrome" -- you want someone to give you some secret magic formula that works in any market, in any industry, in any year, and an any economy. Essentially, you want someone to hold your hand and tell you "Do A+B+C+D and then you'll be RICH" AND you want it to be guaranteed. Moreover, your assumptions are constructed in a vacuum as if the market is static and not evolutionary.

Do you think my startup got to 10,000 visitors a day in a few short months? Years?

How about this forum? Think the traffic here happened overnight? Did you know this forum is over 5 years old? Where were you 5 years ago?

Anything substantial requires an effort that requires you to start at the ground floor from nothing.

You?

It appears you want to start at the top, or at least, find the elevator that will get you there fast and of course, have it be a sure-fire bet. You can't PAY your way to the top, you have to EARN it.

While I appreciate your support for TMF, my tolerance is thinning fast. You've asked for help, got it, and then shoved it back in the faces of people who took the time to respond.

I'm cool with you thinking whatever you want - it doesn't change my reality or the reality of people who are out in the trenches "doing it" versus bitching about it, and then trying to convince everyone else it cannot be done.




And BTW, I don't advocate affiliate/arbitrage marketing (earning commissions on other people's products) and none of the models in my book do either -- your entire argument is premised on a course of action I openly oppose.

Quit making shit up.

MJ,

With all due respect,

You talk about 10,000 visitors a day but refuse to examine how to FIRST achieve 100 visitors a day.

I said that it was absolutely possible to rank for a couple of long tail keywords and get some traction and make some money.

Totally possible.

My question really is, what do you do when you reach saturarion via SEO if you can't afford to grow via paid advertising?

Are you going to keep trying to rank for long tails with low traffic, and hopefully, after you build 100 websites getting 100 visitors each a day, you get your scale of 10.000 a day?

Where is your scale when paid advertising is not an option?

That is the real question no one seems to be able to answer.


I don't want the silver bullet.

I simply want the route that will give me more results for my effort.

Isn't that what MFL is all about ? Being more efficient?


Would you spend years of your life building a dead end business that has no way to grow significantly in the future, or spend some time searching for a more efficient way AND THEN spend some years building it, like "shuma" and his contraption?

Originally Posted by Disruptive

My question really is, what do you do when you reach saturarion via SEO if you can't afford to grow via paid advertising?

I NEVER reached "SEO saturation" with my business. There was always room to be ranked better.

Tell you what, once you reach "saturation" on SEO, report back here.

Ill bet you'll be able to afford to PPC advertise because your ROI on that effort will be nearly infinite. (You should be making a boat load). Sounds like your problem isn't SEO saturation, but a market that is too small. Scale is also a function of total available market size.

Originally Posted by Disruptive

Where is your scale when paid advertising is not an option?

Word of mouth? Social media marketing? Sharing? SEO? Affiliates on a pay for performance? Content marketing? Video marketing?

You keep talking about SCALE as if it is this thing that happens overnight, or in a few short weeks or months. Do you know HOW LONG it took me to earn six-figures monthly? YEARS. The point of scale is to have the ability to move higher and higher incrementally -- with no ceiling -- not to do it suddenly overnight. (Although that's possible too with virality and PR).

I suggest reading rich dad poor dad and cashflow quadrant. it may help you understand the things you arent seeming to grasp that people are trying to explain to you.